Folks:To abuse me of my ignorance, Lani Hermann sent this:Down Home Music is, or was, Chris Strachwitz' record shop and still deals in new
and used recordings, both CDs and LPs, videos, DVDs, and a fair number of currently
in-print books -- they carried Sam Henry when I was peddling the remaindered copies
-- they carry blues, jazz, bluegrass, country, and 'folk' / ethnic material, and cater
to the cogniscenti/collectors in the Bay Area.  I think there are currently three
businesses: the store, Arhoolie Records still run by Strachwitz, and a mail-order
business which was having problems, so I don't know if that is still going or not.
The shop is in El Cerrito, just down the hill a bit from my house;  the highlight
of the year is their semiannual Sale: 20% off everything in the store.  They have
started to have appearances, free, of recording artists in the store, which seem
to please everyone.
I thought you knew about them already!  10341  San Pablo Ave., El Cerrito CA
510-525-2129.  They have a web site, too: www.downhomemusic.com, which repeats a
lot of what I just said and a good deal more.Ed

When I asked about one of Cece Conway's films  of Tommy Jarrel I was sent
upstairs in the back at Down Home Music and bought the tape from Les Blank
Himself. Also bought a t shirt.
Scott Utley
----- Original Message -----
From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 1:21 AM
Subject: A Source for the More Rare Item> Folks:
>
>
> To abuse me of my ignorance, Lani Hermann sent this:
>
>
> Down Home Music is, or was, Chris Strachwitz' record shop and still deals
in new
> and used recordings, both CDs and LPs, videos, DVDs, and a fair number of
currently
> in-print books -- they carried Sam Henry when I was peddling the
remaindered copies
> -- they carry blues, jazz, bluegrass, country, and 'folk' / ethnic
material, and cater
> to the cogniscenti/collectors in the Bay Area.  I think there are
currently three
> businesses: the store, Arhoolie Records still run by Strachwitz, and a
mail-order
> business which was having problems, so I don't know if that is still going
or not.
> The shop is in El Cerrito, just down the hill a bit from my house;  the
highlight
> of the year is their semiannual Sale: 20% off everything in the store.
They have
> started to have appearances, free, of recording artists in the store,
which seem
> to please everyone.
> I thought you knew about them already!  10341  San Pablo Ave., El Cerrito
CA
> 510-525-2129.  They have a web site, too: www.downhomemusic.com, which
repeats a
> lot of what I just said and a good deal more.
>
> Ed
>

In Chicago, many plasterers are Black, and they belong
to the union. At least that's what one man told me
when I asked. He didn't elaborate, but, then, he was
working. Subsequently, I noticed quite a few others
doing this highly skilled work and have always assumed
they were union members-- at least in Chicago.CA> The following appalling reminiscence is in the
> autobiography
> (_Adventures of a Bystander_) of the investment
> banker & management
> consultant Peter F. Drucker.  He was at GM during
> W.W. II:
>

On 11/5/04, Clifford J OCHELTREE wrote:>For the record Country Music Sources references another recording not
>mentioned below
>
>Wilmer Watts, "Charles Guiteaw" (Paramount 3232)Probably more than that. But we know there is another Garfield
assassination song (it's been mentioned in this thread), and there
may be others (I seem to recall seeing a reference in some history
book to still anothe Garfield song) It's not safe to index such
things without hearing them.If anyone has actually heard the Watts recording, of course, it's
another matter.
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

>Nora Forbes married (1) Ed Jolley who died August 17, 1905 (Killed
>in excursion train wreck with his brother Walter. His brother Heber
>was only survivor)I mentioned before that this family (Tull and descendants) appears to
have been white.  They trace their ancestry to England and there are
no mentions of "black," "colored," or "African American" in the
document.  "Negroes" occurs only in quotations from wills describing
the disposal of slaves.Even so, the Forbes/Jolley families seemed to have lived around
Greenville, NC, so the train Engineer D. L. Reig ran into the Western
Branch of the Elizabeth River near Norfolk, VA, on August 17, 1905,
is surely the best candidate for the wreck that killed Ed and Walter
Jolley, from which Heber Jolley escaped.These facts conflict, however, with what I know so far of that wreck,
that the cars were filled with blacks.I wonder if the Jolley brothers could have been conductors.  Did
excursion trains have conductors?John

True, but I tend to give a degree of credence to the scholarship of
Meade and Spottswood.Robert B. Waltz wrote:>It's not safe to index such things without hearing them.
>
>If anyone has actually heard the Watts recording, of course, it's
>another matter.
>
>

On 11/6/04, Clifford J OCHELTREE wrote:>True, but I tend to give a degree of credence to the scholarship of
>Meade and Spottswood.Oh. I misunderstood. I thought you were just going by the title.
That changes things. Thanks.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

I am interested in the films of Les Blank, but can't
find them. A search of DHM's site came up. . .blank.
Any information is appreciated.CA ". . .upstairs in the back at Down Home Music and
bought the tape from Les Blank Himself."

    Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the
person of Cliff Abrams, writes:> In Chicago, many plasterers are Black, and they belong to the
> union. At least that's what one man told me when I asked. He didn't
> elaborate, but, then, he was working. Subsequently, I noticed quite
> a few others doing this highly skilled work and have always assumed
> they were union members-- at least in Chicago.> > The following appalling reminiscence is in the autobiography
> > (_Adventures of a Bystander_) of the investment banker &
> > management consultant Peter F. Drucker.  He was at GM during
> > W.W. II:A lot of things have changed in the last 60 years, some of them for
the better.  Halfway to now, the working-class intellectual Harvey
Pekar (_American Splendor_, #1, 1976) recorded the following scrap of
conversation in a discount store in Cleveland:  "Plus da guvermint's puttin' presshure on my union.  We'll prob'ly
  have to start lettin' in sum niggers!"  "Oh, dat's too bad!  I bet you ain't too crazy 'bout dat!"  "Naw, but I don' give dat much of a shit...  I really gits ta sum
  a da ol' guys dough.  One of 'em sez he's gonna quit if dey git
  in..."A snapshot of the transition: mean, but not so mean.  Thank you, Herr
Hitler, for sending us the bourgeois liberals Drucker & Dreystadt, who
were some help.ObBallads:  There must be some songs in all this.
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  Suck, squeeze, bang, blow.        :||
||:  Internal combustion makes it go.  :||

Title page on video:
Flower Films
10341 San Pablo Avenue, El Cerrito CA 94530
(510) 525 0942
www.lesblank.com  email:[unmask]----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Abrams" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 9:06 AM
Subject: Les Blank> I am interested in the films of Les Blank, but can't
> find them. A search of DHM's site came up. . .blank.
> Any information is appreciated.
>
> CA
>
>  ". . .upstairs in the back at Down Home Music and
> bought the tape from Les Blank Himself."
>

Dear Ballad Fellows, We cannot (and will not) normally (some do slip through) answer support and
ordering messages received through public forums.  I don't get to check the
Ballad-L that frequently and the staff do not have Ballad-L accounts.  Also,
I assume that those of you ordering do not want to broadcast your credit
card info to a public list-serve.Please make sure that support and/or ordering queries intended for Heritage
Muse, ESPB Publishing, or me are emailed directly to one of the following:[unmask]
[unmask]
[unmask] Thank you all.David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.

I know that Tower Records here in New Orleans carries them. You might
try their web site.Cliff Abrams wrote:>I am interested in the films of Les Blank, but can't
>find them. A search of DHM's site came up. . .blank.
>Any information is appreciated.
>
>CA
>
> ". . .upstairs in the back at Down Home Music and
>bought the tape from Les Blank Himself."
>
>
>

Thanks to all for Les Blank info.
CA

Dear Ballad-l:Would anyone on this list know of an Irish
group in the late 50's named Mullen and
Cross?  I need to track down people related
to them to get a copy of their recording of
bawdy Irish songs deposited at the Library of
Congress (see below).Any help will be apprecitated.Sincerely,John Mehlberg
~
      LC Control Number: 2004652055
      Type of Material: Music Sound Recording
      Main Title: Irish folk songs [sound
      recording].
      Published/Created: 1977.
      Related Names: H.V. Greenough
      Collection (Library of Congress)
      Description: 1 sound tape reel :
      analog, 7 1/2 ips, 2 track, mono. ; 10
      in.
      Summary: Informal sessions of chit-chat
      and singing of bawdy folk songs.
      Notes: Preservation tape produced from
      original Greenough acetate tapes in the
      Recording Laboratory of the Library of
      Congress.
      Recorded Nov. 23 and 24, 1953.
      Performed/spoken by: Mullen and Cross.
      Source of Acquisition: Gift of H.V.
      Greenough.
      Subjects: Folk songs.
      LC Classification: LWO 9649, r48A1-B1
      (preservation master)      CALL NUMBER: LWO 9649, reel 48
      (preservation master)
      -- Request in: Recorded Sound Reference
      Center (Madison, LM113)

Hi-
Does anyone happen to have (or know where I can get) a reasonable photo
of Maud Karpeles from the 1950s?
Any help would be greatly appreciateddick greenhaus

Dick,I have at least one photo of Ms. Karpeles in the Heritage Muse collection.
I believe it came from the Library of Congress photo archives. Do you need
this for publication or personal/educational use?Just today, in fact, I also just put my hands on the more well known photo
of Cecil & Maude in the act of collecting in Appalachia.  Sitting on a
source singer's porch, he is jotting down notes and she is transcribing the
words.  This photo (and the work it was taken from) may be in the public
domain by now.  When I get the scan done later this week I'll forward a
copy.David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On
Behalf Of dick greenhaus
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 4:43 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Maud Karpeles photoHi-
Does anyone happen to have (or know where I can get) a reasonable photo
of Maud Karpeles from the 1950s?
Any help would be greatly appreciateddick greenhaus

Please contact the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library; they own most of these
photos of Maud and they are not public domain:
[unmask]----- Original Message -----
From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Maud Karpeles photo> Hi-
> Does anyone happen to have (or know where I can get) a reasonable photo
> of Maud Karpeles from the 1950s?
> Any help would be greatly appreciated
>
> dick greenhaus

I've just checked out from our library the following book, which was
highly recommended to me and, on the basis of some skimming that I've
done, looks to be really excellent.Robert B. Shaw
A History of Railroad Accidents, Safety Precautions, and Operating Practices
Second edition
Printed by Vail-Ballou Press Inc.
1978In looking at the discussion of Casey Jones' wreck, I find details
that I'd not noticed elsewhere, including a blow-by-blow description
of the sawing of trains that preceded the wreck and the rupture of
air hose that resulted in stalling train No. 72 with four cars left
on the main track.  The author, by the way, follows the company line
in placing the blame squarely on Jones, dismissing the conspiracy
theory that the flagman for freight No. 83 had failed to set out
warnings and IC workers orchestrated a cover-up.  This wreck takes up
about three pages of the book.Immediately following it is a one-paragraph discussion of the wreck of Old 97.One of the 44 chapters is entitled "The Open Draw," and in that
chapter the accident of a six-car train carrying a Negro excursion
party at the Western Branch of the Elizabeth River, on the edge of
Norfolk, VA, on the Atlantic Coast Line, August 17, 1905, is
discussed in two paragraphs.The book considers many accidents, perhaps some (other than those
above) that are commemorated in song, but it's main interest is
clearly described in the title.It is fascinating reading.John
--
john garst    [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Dear Ballad-l,I have finished scanning the bawdy broadside
ledgerbook that I own.  It is to be donated
to New York Historical Association.Is there anyone here who would want scans of
the complete ledgerbook or perhaps just the
broadsides?   If yes, I can give you the
ledgerbook (or broadsides) as 600dpi 8bit
greyscale TIFFs on a DVD.I eventually plan on typing out the
broadsides and the handwritten text.  But it
may be a while as I have many other items
which need to be worked on.Dick, one of the broadsides is "Boring for
Oil" with seven stanzas.Sincerely,John Mehlberg
~
My, mostly traditional, bawdy songs, toasts
and recitations website: www.immortalia.com

Hi!        When not raking leaves, I found the following on Ebay. :-)        SONGSTERS        6934823268 - Dan Rice's Original Comic and Sentimental Poetic
Effusions, 1859, $67.66 (ends Nov-11-04 08:48:44 PST)        3940252054 - 4 songsters, 1890-1900, $8.99 (ends Nov-11-04
17:42:26 PST)        3759907549 - MAHARA'S BIG MINSTREL CARNIVAL SONGSTER, 1904, $34
(ends Nov-11-04 17:51:17 PST)        2283193401 - Grand Army Songster and Service Book, 1897, $9.95
(ends Nov-12-04 18:23:14 PST)        3940071689 - BARNUM AND LONDON SONGSTER, 18??, $9.99 w/reserve
(ends Nov-14-04 18:01:04 PST)        6935434266 - Howorth's Grand Hibernica Songster, 1879?, $15.50
(ends Nov-15-04 20:24:04 PST)        6935591949 - Hutchinson Family's Book of Words, 1851, $99.99 (ends
Nov-17-04 08:59:58 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4502331553 - Word-Lore, The Folk Magazine Volume 1 Issue 1, 1926,
6.50 GBP (ends Nov-14-04 06:16:25 PST)        SONGBOOKS        3759722907 - Strike the Bell by Palmer, 1978, 0.99 GBP (ends
Nov-11-04 06:49:32 PST)        4501863260 - SANG BRANCH SETTLERS: FOLKSONGS AND TALES OF AN EASTERN
KENTUCKY FAMILY by Roberts, 1980, $49.99 (ends Nov-12-04 07:48:42 PST)        6935053671 - Hunting Songs and Ballads by Warburton, 1846, $112.50
(ends Nov-12-04 21:26:59 PST)        6933359838 - The Ballad Book by Allingham, 1865, $19.99 (ends
Nov-13-04 04:22:53 PST)        3760171107 - Lyric Gems of Scotland, 1860, 15 GBP (ends Nov-13-04
06:16:42 PST)        4502138310 - ENGLISH SONG BOOK by Scott, 1926, $9.99 (ends
Nov-13-04 08:12:56 PST)        3760223324 - 3 Kincaid songbooks, 1930-40, $3.99 (ends Nov-13-04
10:56:11 PST)        4502180609 - POPULAR MUSIC OF THE OLDEN TIME by Chappell, volume 2,
1.99 GBP (ends Nov-13-04 11:52:55 PST)        6935147247 - Ballads and Songs From Utah by Hubbard, 1961, $19.99
(ends Nov-13-04 17:36:39 PST)        4502411740 - THE BEST OF HELEN CREIGHTON by Bauchman, 1992, $6
(ends Nov-14-04 11:07:56 PST)        4502434026 - The Edwardian Songbook by Turner & Miall, 1982, 6 GBP
(ends Nov-14-04 12:06:19 PST)        4502454594 - A SONG FOR EVERY SEASON : A Hundred Years of a Sussex
Farming Family by Copper, 1971, 3 GBP (ends Nov-14-04 12:57:40 PST)        6935286689 - Rounds & Rounds by Taylor, 1946, $9.14 (ends
Nov-14-04 15:28:29 PST)        4502552319 - Virginia Piedmont Blues by Pearson, $1.99 (ends
Nov-14-04 17:14:26 PST)        6935436494 - Ned Kelly by Merredith & Scott, 1980, $7.50 AU (ends
Nov-15-04 21:07:19 PST)        6935506597 - Ancient Poems Ballads and Songs Of the Peasantry of
England by Bell, 1857, 4.99 GBP (ends Nov-16-04 13:04:10 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

I would like to order a copy if anyone will be importing them to sell. 
Ronald CohenSubject:        New Song Book from English Folk Dance & Song SocietyFrom: Felicity Greenland <[unmask]> 
To: .PR Folk Song/TSF <[unmask]> 
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:04 AM 
Subject: New Song Book from EFDSS From: Felicity Greenland
on behalf of English Folk Dance & Song Society, Cecil Sharp House, 2 Regent1s Park Road, London NW1 7AY 020 7485 2206 [unmask] <[unmask]>PRESS RELEASE 11 Nov 2004New Song Book from English Folk Dance & Song SocietyDear Companion: Appalachian traditional songs and singers from the Cecil Sharp CollectionDear Companion is a collection of fifty-three songs and ballads from Cecil Sharp1s American collection, and celebrates the close links between the musical traditions of Britain and North America. An authoritative introductory essay by collector Mike Yates, together with biographical sketches of the singers and notes on the songs, are copiously illustrated by previously unpublished photographs, extracts from diaries, letters, and biographical writings. Cecil Sharp, a music teacher from south London, is England1s most renowned collector of folk music and dances, noting down nearly five thousand tunes on his travels throughout England and the Appalachian states of North America up until his death in 1924. The previous volume in this series, Still Growing (EFDSS 2003, ?13.50), demonstrated the richness of the song tradition that he found in his native England. But perhaps the most significant part of his vast collection is that assembled during the First World War years in North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and Kentucky. At the instigation of American enthusiast Olive Dame Campbell, he embarked with assistant Maud Karpeles on a truly remarkable journey through America1s southern uplands, to discover a living tradition of songs and ballads, largely of British origin, which had all but died out back home.Dear Companion: Appalachian Traditional Songs and Singers from the Cecil Sharp Collection. Compiled and edited by Mike Yates, Elaine Bradtke and Malcolm TaylorPublished by the English Folk Dance & Song Society in association with Sharp1s Folk Club, November 2004. ISBN 0-85418-190-3. [vi], 137pp, illustrated. Softback. ?14.99 plus ?2 p&p (UK)Available late November 2004.Order from:
EFDSS, Cecil Sharp House, 2 Regent1s Park Road, London NW1 7AY
Tel: 020-7485 2206 Fax: 020-7284 0523 email: [unmask] www.efdss.orgSpecial Offer: Buy 'Dear Companion' and 'Still Growing' together for ?25.00 (save ?3.49) + ?2.50 UK p+p Trade terms and overseas postage available on application.
Image available at http://www.efdss.org/news.htm----For further press information please contact: Felicity Greenland
EFDSS Publicity
ENGLISH FOLK DANCE & SONG SOCIETY http://www.efdss.org
Cecil Sharp House, 2 Regent's Park Road , London NW1 7AY
Tel +44 (0)20 7485 2206 Ext 21 Fax +44 (0)20 7284 0534Registered Charity No. 305999
Company registered in England and limited by Guarantee Number 297142MAP: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=528446&Y=183756&A=Y&Z=1Your support helps EFDSS preserve and promote the traditional arts
JOIN EFDSS: http://www.efdss.org/members.htmEnglish Folk Dance & Song Society 
The EFDSS is the country's premiere folk music organisation. A national educational charity, it has worked for over 100 years to promote, encourage, document and develop the rich folk traditions within England, co-operating with similar organisations both in Britain and worldwide. 

Anyone:Is it safe to assume that these 75 songs and ballads in the new book announced today  are all in Sharp's two-volume English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians?  If so, are we buying it for Mike Yates' introduction?  And  how different is it from the excellent narrative Yates put up on  MusicTrad?Ed

Dear Fellow Ballad Enthusiasts,In regards to Ed Cray's question:Though I have not yet seen the book, It is my understanding that there will be biographical data and photographs of the singers that have been tucked away in the Cecil Sharp Library archives, and have not been released to the US until now. I have been in that collection, and the photographs of the singers and tidbits from Sharp's manuscripts really add to the texts in English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians. I, for one, will be placing this book on my shelf next to Sharp's book, as the texture and information found in Dear Companion. The photographs from the collection that are in Yates' Mustrad articles are just web copies and not the clear and crisp images that would be detailed in the book.When my copy arrives, I plan to review it for the Appalachian Journal. I can send this review to the List-serv for those interested...Cassie Robinson
Liston B. Ramsey Center for Regional Studies
Mars Hill College-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of edward cray
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:06 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Sharp in AmericaAnyone:Is it safe to assume that these 75 songs and ballads in the new book announced today  are all in Sharp's two-volume English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians?  If so, are we buying it for Mike Yates' introduction?  And  how different is it from the excellent narrative Yates put up on  MusicTrad?Ed

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On 2004/11/12 at 10:37:50AM -0500, Karen Kobela wrote:        ... her posting all in HTML.        Could you please at least include plain text in addition to the
HTML for those of us who use plain-text e-mail programs?  I'll include a
copy of your HTML, modified so it won't be recognized as HTML by your
e-mail program, so you can see what we have to wade through.  (Aside
from the problem that HTML can introduce virii into a Windows system,
which I *won't* use for e-mail.)        The changes which I have made are:        replace each '<' with a '{'
        replace each '>' with a '}'
        replace each '&' with a '~'        Please try to read it, so you can see just how difficult the
HTML alone makes things for those who don't trust HTML in e-mail.  (This
aside from all the space wasted by the HTML formatting.  As an example,
you will find many places where you see "~nbsp;".  In the original, the
'~' was a '&', and that is displayed (in an HTML-capable program) as a
single blank space like ' '.        And the repeated "{DIV}{/DIV}" at the beginning of many lines is
totally wasted, as it starts and closes a division to no purpose.        I understand that hotmail makes it nearly impossible to send in
plain text *only*, but sending in HTML *only* makes it very difficult for
some of us to read, and the temptation is to just skip over it.        Note that some mailing lists *forbid* HTML content totally,
because of the possible virii which it can introduce.        HTML was designed for writing web pages, and I use it there.  It
really does not *belong* in e-mail, though hotmail, aol, and several
others do not seem to understand this.        Thank you,
                DoN.        Converted original HTML follows below: ======================================================================
{html}{div style='background-color:'}{DIV class=RTE}
{P}Would anyone be able to list the songs included in Dear Companion?~nbsp; I look forward to getting a copy of the book when it is available in the states.{/P}
{P}Thanks, Karen Kobela{BR}{BR}{/P}{/DIV}
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: "Robinson, Cassie" ~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Reply-To: Forum for ballad scholars ~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Re: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:44:04 -0500
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Dear Fellow Ballad Enthusiasts,
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;In regards to Ed Cray's question:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Though I have not yet seen the book, It is my
understanding that there will be biographical data and photographs of
the singers that have been tucked away in the Cecil Sharp Library
archives, and have not been released to the US until now.
 I have been in that collection, and the photographs of the singers and
tidbits from Sharp's manuscripts really add to the texts in English Folk
Songs from the Southern Appalachians. I, for one, will be placing this
book on my shelf next to Sharp's book, as the texture and information
found in Dear Companion. The photographs from the collection that are in
Yates' Mustrad articles are just web copies and not the clear and crisp
images that would be detailed in the book.
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;When my copy arrives, I plan to review it for the
Appalachian Journal. I can send this review to the List-serv for those
interested...
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Cassie Robinson
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Liston B. Ramsey Center for Regional Studies
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Mars Hill College
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;-----Original Message-----
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Behalf Of edward cray
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:06 PM
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Anyone:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Is it safe to assume that these 75 songs and ballads in
the new book announced today~nbsp;~nbsp;are all in Sharp's two-volume
English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians?~nbsp;~nbsp;If so, are
we buying it for Mike Yates' introduction?~nbsp;~nbsp;And~nbsp;~nbsp;how
different is it from the excellent narrative Yates put up
on~nbsp;~nbsp;MusicTrad?
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Ed
{DIV}{/DIV}{/div}{/html}
 ======================================================================--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ballad Folks:Here is my response in Plain Text. I was not aware that there was a problem with my emails. I am sorry if it was difficult to read. 
Apparently the listserv will not allow image attachments, so for your convienence I have included the table of contents of Dear Companion within this email. Sincerely,
Cassie RobinsonDear Companion: Appalachian Traditional Songs and Singers from the Cecil Sharp Collection
from the Cecil Sharp CollectionAwake! Awake!                                   100
The Battle of Shiloh                            60
Black is the Colour                             95
Boney's Defeat                                  115
The Broken Token                                        65
Come All Ye Southern Soldiers                   107
Come My Little Roving Sailor                    110
The Dear Companion                              69
The Drummer                                             56
Edward                                          61
The Elfin Knight                                        83
Every Night When the Sun Goes In                81
The False Knight Upon the Road          45
The False Young Man                             44
The Fateful Blow                                        39
The Foggy Dew                                   92
The Golden Vanity (The Green Willow Tree)       106
Good Morning My Pretty Little Miss              71
The Good Old Man                                        94
Green Grow The Laurel                           85
The Ground Hog                                  112
The Gypsy Laddie                                        80
Hick's Farewell                                 102
Hold On                                         118
The Holly Twig                                  31
I'm Sixteen Come Sunday                         40
I Love My Love                                  113
I Must and I Will Get Married                   47
I Wish I Was A Child Again                      109
John of Hazelgreen                              58
Johnny Scott                                    52
Lamkin                                          74
The Lily of the West                            116
Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard                88
The Lover's Lament                              41
The Mermaid                                             86
The Miller's Apprentice;                        117
    or the Oxford Tragedy
The Mouldering Vine                             98
My Dearest Dear
The Poor Stranger; or The Cuckoo                37
The Rebel Soldier                                       50
The Rich Old Lady                                       66
St. James's Hospital                            48
Sally Anne                                              73
Scornful Nancy                                  53
The Sheffield Apprentice                        62
The Silver Dagger                                       57
There Was an Old and Wealthy Man                104
The True Lover's Farewell                       82
The Two Crows                                   78
Way Down the Ohio                                       59
When Adam was Created                           96
The Wife of Usher's Well                        77-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of DoN. Nichols
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 2:04 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Sharp in AmericaOn 2004/11/12 at 10:37:50AM -0500, Karen Kobela wrote:        ... her posting all in HTML.        Could you please at least include plain text in addition to the
HTML for those of us who use plain-text e-mail programs?  I'll include a
copy of your HTML, modified so it won't be recognized as HTML by your
e-mail program, so you can see what we have to wade through.  (Aside
from the problem that HTML can introduce virii into a Windows system,
which I *won't* use for e-mail.)        The changes which I have made are:        replace each '<' with a '{'
        replace each '>' with a '}'
        replace each '&' with a '~'        Please try to read it, so you can see just how difficult the
HTML alone makes things for those who don't trust HTML in e-mail.  (This
aside from all the space wasted by the HTML formatting.  As an example,
you will find many places where you see "~nbsp;".  In the original, the
'~' was a '&', and that is displayed (in an HTML-capable program) as a
single blank space like ' '.        And the repeated "{DIV}{/DIV}" at the beginning of many lines is
totally wasted, as it starts and closes a division to no purpose.        I understand that hotmail makes it nearly impossible to send in
plain text *only*, but sending in HTML *only* makes it very difficult for
some of us to read, and the temptation is to just skip over it.        Note that some mailing lists *forbid* HTML content totally,
because of the possible virii which it can introduce.        HTML was designed for writing web pages, and I use it there.  It
really does not *belong* in e-mail, though hotmail, aol, and several
others do not seem to understand this.        Thank you,
                DoN.        Converted original HTML follows below: ======================================================================
{html}{div style='background-color:'}{DIV class=RTE}
{P}Would anyone be able to list the songs included in Dear Companion?~nbsp; I look forward to getting a copy of the book when it is available in the states.{/P}
{P}Thanks, Karen Kobela{BR}{BR}{/P}{/DIV}
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: "Robinson, Cassie" ~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Reply-To: Forum for ballad scholars ~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Re: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:44:04 -0500
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Dear Fellow Ballad Enthusiasts,
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;In regards to Ed Cray's question:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Though I have not yet seen the book, It is my
understanding that there will be biographical data and photographs of
the singers that have been tucked away in the Cecil Sharp Library
archives, and have not been released to the US until now.
 I have been in that collection, and the photographs of the singers and
tidbits from Sharp's manuscripts really add to the texts in English Folk
Songs from the Southern Appalachians. I, for one, will be placing this
book on my shelf next to Sharp's book, as the texture and information
found in Dear Companion. The photographs from the collection that are in
Yates' Mustrad articles are just web copies and not the clear and crisp
images that would be detailed in the book.
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;When my copy arrives, I plan to review it for the
Appalachian Journal. I can send this review to the List-serv for those
interested...
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Cassie Robinson
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Liston B. Ramsey Center for Regional Studies
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Mars Hill College
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;-----Original Message-----
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Behalf Of edward cray
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:06 PM
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Anyone:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Is it safe to assume that these 75 songs and ballads in
the new book announced today~nbsp;~nbsp;are all in Sharp's two-volume
English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians?~nbsp;~nbsp;If so, are
we buying it for Mike Yates' introduction?~nbsp;~nbsp;And~nbsp;~nbsp;how
different is it from the excellent narrative Yates put up
on~nbsp;~nbsp;MusicTrad?
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Ed
{DIV}{/DIV}{/div}{/html}
 ======================================================================--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2004/11/12 at 03:08:52PM -0500, Robinson, Cassie wrote:> Ballad Folks:> Here is my response in Plain Text. I was not aware that there was a
> problem with my emails. I am sorry if it was difficult to read.        This is *much* better.  Thank you!> Apparently the listserv will not allow image attachments,        A good thing, actually, as (claimed) image attachments are
another path for virii into Windows systems through Outlook Express.
Aside from that, images can't be processed through a text-to-speech
program for those who are visually impaired, while plain text can.  (I'm
not sure whether there are filters to strip out the HTML constructs to
allow similar processing for HTML-embedded text.  If not, that, also,
could be very hard to listen to.>                                                           so for your
> convienence I have included the table of contents of Dear Companion
> within this email.> Sincerely,
> Cassie Robinson        [ ... ]> Dear Companion: Appalachian Traditional Songs and Singers from the Cecil Sharp Collection
> from the Cecil Sharp Collection        A nice list.        Thank you,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Here is a comparison with Dear Companion and EFS SA
after pagination in DC I listed volume and page number in EFS SA
Awake! Awake! 100 1 358
The Battle of Shiloh 60 2 172
Black is the Colour 95 2 31
Boney's Defeat 115 2 245
The Broken Token 65 2 70
Come All Ye Southern Soldiers 107 2 253
Come My Little Roving Sailor 110 2 279
The Dear Companion 69 1 230
The Drummer 56 2 265 (and his wife)
Edward 61 1 46
The Elfin Knight 83 1 1
Every Night When the Sun Goes In 81 2 268
The False Knight Upon the Road 45 1 3
The False Young Man 44 2 51
The Fateful Blow 39 2 246
The Foggy Dew 92 2 174
The Golden Vanity (The Green Willow Tree) 106 1 282
Good Morning My Pretty Little Miss 71 2 90
The Good Old Man 94 2 338
Green Grow The Laurel 85 2 211 [grows]
The Ground Hog 112 2 340
The Gypsy Laddie 80 1 233
Hick's Farewell 102 2 142
Hold On 118 2 292
The Holly Twig 31 1 341
I'm Sixteen Come Sunday 40 2 156 [seventeen]
I Love My Love 113 2 269
I Must and I Will Get Married 47 2 159
I Wish I Was A Child Again 109 2 383
John of Hazelgreen 58 1 294
Johnny Scott 52 1 215
Lamkin 74 1 201
The Lily of the West 116 2 199
Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard 88 1 161
The Lover's Lament 41 2 103
The Mermaid 86 1 291
The Miller's Apprentice; 117 1 407or the Oxford Tragedy
The Mouldering Vine 98
My Dearest Dear 2 13
The Poor Stranger; or The Cuckoo 37 2 212
The Rebel Soldier 50 2 212 (poor stranger)
The Rich Old Lady 66 1 348
St. James's Hospital 48 2 164
Sally Anne 73 2 351
Scornful Nancy 53
The Sheffield Apprentice 62 2 66
The Silver Dagger 57 2 229
There Was an Old and Wealthy Man 104
The True Lover's Farewell 82 2 113
The Two Crows 78
Way Down the Ohio 59 2 275
When Adam was Created 96 2 272
The Wife of Usher's Well 77 1 150Mouldering Vine 98 Scornful Nancy 53 There was an old Wealthy Man 104 and
The Two Crows are not in the index of EFS Southern Appalachians. I shall
Look them up in Roud. I have not seen the texts in Dear Companion.----- Original Message -----
From: "Robinson, Cassie" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:08 PM
Subject: Re: Sharp in AmericaBallad Folks:Here is my response in Plain Text. I was not aware that there was a problem
with my emails. I am sorry if it was difficult to read.
Apparently the listserv will not allow image attachments, so for your
convienence I have included the table of contents of Dear Companion within
this email.Sincerely,
Cassie RobinsonDear Companion: Appalachian Traditional Songs and Singers from the Cecil
Sharp Collection
from the Cecil Sharp CollectionAwake! Awake!                                   100
The Battle of Shiloh                            60
Black is the Colour                             95
Boney's Defeat                                  115
The Broken Token                                        65
Come All Ye Southern Soldiers                   107
Come My Little Roving Sailor                    110
The Dear Companion                              69
The Drummer                                             56
Edward                                          61
The Elfin Knight                                        83
Every Night When the Sun Goes In                81
The False Knight Upon the Road          45
The False Young Man                             44
The Fateful Blow                                        39
The Foggy Dew                                   92
The Golden Vanity (The Green Willow Tree)       106
Good Morning My Pretty Little Miss              71
The Good Old Man                                        94
Green Grow The Laurel                           85
The Ground Hog                                  112
The Gypsy Laddie                                        80
Hick's Farewell                                 102
Hold On                                         118
The Holly Twig                                  31
I'm Sixteen Come Sunday                         40
I Love My Love                                  113
I Must and I Will Get Married                   47
I Wish I Was A Child Again                      109
John of Hazelgreen                              58
Johnny Scott                                    52
Lamkin                                          74
The Lily of the West                            116
Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard                88
The Lover's Lament                              41
The Mermaid                                             86
The Miller's Apprentice;                        117
    or the Oxford Tragedy
The Mouldering Vine                             98
My Dearest Dear
The Poor Stranger; or The Cuckoo                37
The Rebel Soldier                                       50
The Rich Old Lady                                       66
St. James's Hospital                            48
Sally Anne                                              73
Scornful Nancy                                  53
The Sheffield Apprentice                        62
The Silver Dagger                                       57
There Was an Old and Wealthy Man                104
The True Lover's Farewell                       82
The Two Crows                                   78
Way Down the Ohio                                       59
When Adam was Created                           96
The Wife of Usher's Well                        77-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of DoN. Nichols
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 2:04 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Sharp in AmericaOn 2004/11/12 at 10:37:50AM -0500, Karen Kobela wrote:        ... her posting all in HTML.        Could you please at least include plain text in addition to the
HTML for those of us who use plain-text e-mail programs?  I'll include a
copy of your HTML, modified so it won't be recognized as HTML by your
e-mail program, so you can see what we have to wade through.  (Aside
from the problem that HTML can introduce virii into a Windows system,
which I *won't* use for e-mail.)        The changes which I have made are:        replace each '<' with a '{'
        replace each '>' with a '}'
        replace each '&' with a '~'        Please try to read it, so you can see just how difficult the
HTML alone makes things for those who don't trust HTML in e-mail.  (This
aside from all the space wasted by the HTML formatting.  As an example,
you will find many places where you see "~nbsp;".  In the original, the
'~' was a '&', and that is displayed (in an HTML-capable program) as a
single blank space like ' '.        And the repeated "{DIV}{/DIV}" at the beginning of many lines is
totally wasted, as it starts and closes a division to no purpose.        I understand that hotmail makes it nearly impossible to send in
plain text *only*, but sending in HTML *only* makes it very difficult for
some of us to read, and the temptation is to just skip over it.        Note that some mailing lists *forbid* HTML content totally,
because of the possible virii which it can introduce.        HTML was designed for writing web pages, and I use it there.  It
really does not *belong* in e-mail, though hotmail, aol, and several
others do not seem to understand this.        Thank you,
                DoN.        Converted original HTML follows below: ======================================================================
{html}{div style='background-color:'}{DIV class=RTE}
{P}Would anyone be able to list the songs included in Dear Companion?~nbsp;
I look forward to getting a copy of the book when it is available in the
states.{/P}
{P}Thanks, Karen Kobela{BR}{BR}{/P}{/DIV}
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: "Robinson, Cassie" ~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Reply-To: Forum for ballad scholars
~lt;[unmask];
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Re: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:44:04 -0500
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Dear Fellow Ballad Enthusiasts,
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;In regards to Ed Cray's question:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Though I have not yet seen the book, It is my
understanding that there will be biographical data and photographs of
the singers that have been tucked away in the Cecil Sharp Library
archives, and have not been released to the US until now.
 I have been in that collection, and the photographs of the singers and
tidbits from Sharp's manuscripts really add to the texts in English Folk
Songs from the Southern Appalachians. I, for one, will be placing this
book on my shelf next to Sharp's book, as the texture and information
found in Dear Companion. The photographs from the collection that are in
Yates' Mustrad articles are just web copies and not the clear and crisp
images that would be detailed in the book.
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;When my copy arrives, I plan to review it for the
Appalachian Journal. I can send this review to the List-serv for those
interested...
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Cassie Robinson
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Liston B. Ramsey Center for Regional Studies
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Mars Hill College
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;-----Original Message-----
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;From: Forum for ballad scholars
[mailto:[unmask]]On
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Behalf Of edward cray
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:06 PM
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;To: [unmask]
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Subject: Sharp in America
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Anyone:
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Is it safe to assume that these 75 songs and ballads in
the new book announced today~nbsp;~nbsp;are all in Sharp's two-volume
English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians?~nbsp;~nbsp;If so, are
we buying it for Mike Yates' introduction?~nbsp;~nbsp;And~nbsp;~nbsp;how
different is it from the excellent narrative Yates put up
on~nbsp;~nbsp;MusicTrad?
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;
{DIV}{/DIV}~gt;Ed
{DIV}{/DIV}{/div}{/html}
 ======================================================================--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. |
http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Some articles you may like to know about:B?LOIDEAS  71 (2003) pp.55-74; SMITH, Th??e, Untranscribed Voices from the Past: Music and Folklore [concerns veteran Irish collector Tom Munnelly]PAPERS OF THE BIBLIOGRAPHICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA 98:3 (2004) pp.293-312;  KUCZYNSKI, Michael P.,   John Whitefoord Mackenzie and the Percy Society: Documents in the Hoard-Tilton Memorial Library, Tulane UniversityUNIVERSITY OF TORONTO QUARTERLY 73:4 (2004)pp.1003-1010; COWAN, Yuri, William Allingham's 'Ballad Book' and its Victorian ReadersSteve RoudSignup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail

Steve:This is a very valuable service toi those oif us on ballad-l.  Could you make this a bi-weekly or monthly feature, oh, master bibliographer?Ed----- Original Message -----
From: [unmask]
Date: Friday, November 12, 2004 4:37 pm
Subject: Articles> Some articles you may like to know about:
> 
> B?LOIDEAS  71 (2003) pp.55-74; SMITH, Th??e, Untranscribed 
> Voices from the Past: Music and Folklore [concerns veteran Irish 
> collector Tom Munnelly]
> 
> PAPERS OF THE BIBLIOGRAPHICAL SOCIETY OF AMERICA 98:3 (2004) pp.293-
> 312;  KUCZYNSKI, Michael P.,   John Whitefoord Mackenzie and the 
> Percy Society: Documents in the Hoard-Tilton Memorial Library, 
> Tulane University
> 
> UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO QUARTERLY 73:4 (2004)pp.1003-1010; COWAN, 
> Yuri, William Allingham's 'Ballad Book' and its Victorian Readers
> 
> Steve Roud
> 
> Signup to supanet at https://signup.supanet.com/cgi-
> bin/signup?_origin=sigwebmail

Hello everyone,I have made relatively low quality PDFs available of the bawdy
broadsides ( http://tinyurl.com/5e937  (28MB)) and the complete
ledger book ( http://tinyurl.com/5556h  (29MB)).Ed, you may want to use these two PDFs if you just want *reading*
copies and not archival copies.Yours,John Mehlberg
~
My bawdy songs, toasts and recitations website:
www.immortalia.com

Hi all,Some of you know me, some of you don't. I am a lurker here, but have
decided to come out to pick your collective brains regarding a question
I have. I am a wee bit naive when delving deeper into some of these
issues, and thought some of you might have some experience with this.
This involves licensing of songs in the US. In the past I have paid
contemporary composers directly for their use of material, gone the
Harry Fox route, or just made damn sure the song was public domain.I have been finding some great songs (haven't we all!) from source
recordings for some time now. One of the songs that I have found and
plan to record is "My Dad's Dinner Pail" that was written by Edward
Harrigan and David Braham and published in "Collected Songs II,
1883-1896". From what I can glean from the sheet music, there is a
copyright for the years 1997, 2000 to A-R Editions, Inc.  I found this
song as "Dad's Dinner Pail" in the Flanders Collection sung by Jonathon
Moses.My question is: How do I know if the version that Moses sings is public
domain or not? Maybe some of you singers who have recorded older
composed songs (specifically music hall songs such as this), can tell me
what you did in this situation? I am more than willing to pay a
mechanical license to record the song if I need to.Or maybe I need to consult a copyright expert (lawyer) on this one?Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.Deb Cowan
--******************************
Debra Cowan - Singer
website: http://www.DebraCowan.com
USA BOOKINGS: (508) 662-9746,
SNAIL-MAIL: P.O. Box 1335, Westborough, MA 01581
UK BOOKINGS: Vivienne Bloomfield   http://www.otheragency.co.uk
RECORDINGS/SALES: Falling Mountain Music (540) 877-2505
http://www.fallingmountain.com
******************************

Debra:If I understand you correctly, "My Dad's Dinner Pail" was written prior to 1896 when it first appeared in print.  If that is the case, the song is in the public domain.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Debra Cowan <[unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 9:44 am
Subject: Copyright Question> Hi all,
>
> Some of you know me, some of you don't. I am a lurker here, but have
> decided to come out to pick your collective brains regarding a
> questionI have. I am a wee bit naive when delving deeper into some
> of these
> issues, and thought some of you might have some experience with this.
> This involves licensing of songs in the US. In the past I have paid
> contemporary composers directly for their use of material, gone the
> Harry Fox route, or just made damn sure the song was public domain.
>
> I have been finding some great songs (haven't we all!) from source
> recordings for some time now. One of the songs that I have found and
> plan to record is "My Dad's Dinner Pail" that was written by Edward
> Harrigan and David Braham and published in "Collected Songs II,
> 1883-1896". From what I can glean from the sheet music, there is a
> copyright for the years 1997, 2000 to A-R Editions, Inc.  I found this
> song as "Dad's Dinner Pail" in the Flanders Collection sung by
> JonathonMoses.
>
> My question is: How do I know if the version that Moses sings is
> publicdomain or not? Maybe some of you singers who have recorded older
> composed songs (specifically music hall songs such as this), can
> tell me
> what you did in this situation? I am more than willing to pay a
> mechanical license to record the song if I need to.
>
> Or maybe I need to consult a copyright expert (lawyer) on this one?
>
> Thanks in advance for any assistance you can give.
>
> Deb Cowan
> --
>
>
> ******************************
> Debra Cowan - Singer
> website: http://www.DebraCowan.com
> USA BOOKINGS: (508) 662-9746,
> SNAIL-MAIL: P.O. Box 1335, Westborough, MA 01581
> UK BOOKINGS: Vivienne Bloomfield   http://www.otheragency.co.uk
> RECORDINGS/SALES: Falling Mountain Music (540) 877-2505
> http://www.fallingmountain.com
> ******************************
>

Hi!        Beat the holiday rush! Get your books on Ebay now before
Thanksgiving! :-)        SONGSTERS        3761323933 - G.O.P. SONGSTER, 1905, $26 (ends Nov-17-04 17:42:59
PST)        7113931469 - Merchant's Gargling Oil Songster, 1889, $9.99 (ends
Nov-19-04 12:39:37 PST)        2285427933 - Sheridan & Flynns Songster, 1890, $1 (ends Nov-20-04
16:16:29 PST)        3762252210 - Chas. K. Harris' Latest...Popular Songster, 1901,
$2.50 (ends Nov-21-04 13:39:19 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4051628184 - The Long Harvest, MacColl & Seeger, LP, 1967, 9.95
GBP (ends Nov-18-04 08:25:10 PST)        SONGBOOKS        3761205457 -  I. W. W. Songs, 1989 reprint, $9 (ends Nov-17-04
09:53:19 PST)        6935622075 - Folk Songs of the South by Cox, $0.99 (ends Nov-17-04
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(ends Nov-19-04 05:11:25 PST)        4503895518 - THE PENGUIN BOOK OF AUSTRALIAN BALLADS by Ward, 1964,
$2 AU (ends Nov-19-04 07:14:34 PST)        3761825163 - THE SONGS THAT MADE AUSTRALIA by Fahey, $9 AU (ends
Nov-19-04 18:45:17 PST)        6935959957 - Lays of the Scottish Cavaliers and Other Poems by
Aytoun, 1887, 35 GBP (ends Nov-20-04 12:18:28 PST)        4504187142 - Sing Care Away by Sharp, 0.99 GBP (ends Nov-20-04
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(ends Nov-20-04 14:28:58 PST)        4504272749 - Songs Remembered in Exile by Campbell, 1990, $19.99
(ends Nov-20-04 21:13:37 PST)        4503570094 -  THE BRITISH FOLKLORISTS A HISTORY by Dorson, 1968,
0.99 GBP (ends Nov-21-04 03:48:01 PST)        4504336669 - Mexican Border Ballads and Other Lore by Boatright,
1946, $11.99 (ends Nov-21-04 08:21:47 PST)        4504366229 - Colonial Ballads by Anderson, 1962, 5 GBP (ends
Nov-21-04 10:15:22 PST)        4503352623 - Songs of the Cowboys by Thorp, 1989 reprint, $5 (ends
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Witham, 1937, $5 (ends Nov-21-04 14:31:32 PST)        7934276869 - Scottish Ballads by Lyle, 1997, 0.99 GBP (ends
Nov-21-04 15:16:26 PST)        3762288081 - NEGRO SONGS FROM ALABAMA by Courlander, 1960, $19.95
(ends Nov-21-04 15:59:26 PST)        4504490568 - SONGS OF THE PEOPLE;SAM HENRY COLLECTION by Moulden,
1979, $4 (ends Nov-21-04 17:36:02 PST)        3762391478 - 3 books (The AFSCME songbook by Glazer, 1978, Roll Me
Over, 1972, & A Book of Nonsense songs by Cazden, 1966) $3 (ends
Nov-22-04 02:13:28 PST)        3762538996 - BOOK OF IRISH BALLADS by McCarthy, 1869, $6.63 (ends
Nov-22-04 17:00:00 PST)        6936253696 - The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads by Bronson,
volume 2, 1962, $49.99 w/reserve (ends Nov-22-04 17:19:29 PST)        4504562031 - Song of Robin Hood by Malcolmson, 1947, $6.78 (ends
Nov-24-04 23:22:07 PST)        4504805972 - Real Sailor Songs by Lloyd/Ashton, 1973, 40 GBP (ends
Nov-25-04 18:35:04 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

On 2004/11/16 at 02:27:07PM -0800, edward cray wrote:> From: Debra Cowan <[unmask]>> > I have been finding some great songs (haven't we all!) from source
> > recordings for some time now. One of the songs that I have found and
> > plan to record is "My Dad's Dinner Pail" that was written by Edward
> > Harrigan and David Braham and published in "Collected Songs II,
> > 1883-1896".> If I understand you correctly, "My Dad's Dinner Pail" was written
> prior to 1896 when it first appeared in print.  If that is the case, the
> song is in the public domain.> >             From what I can glean from the sheet music, there is a
> > copyright for the years 1997, 2000 to A-R Editions, Inc.  I found this
> > song as "Dad's Dinner Pail" in the Flanders Collection sung by
> > JonathonMoses.        I would say that the version published in "Collected Songs" (if
that was printed back then), or in sheet music printed back then, you
should be fine.        However -- beware of learning an arrangement from the later
(1997, 2000) publication.  *That* could be copyrighted.  As long as you
learned from the original, and can have a copy of the original ready to
hand to defend yourself, you should be fine.  The modern copyright
holders may well try to enforce their copyright, so you probably *will*
have to use the older publication as a defense.        Good Luck,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Those of you with an interest in Sacred Harp singing may find the
following of interest:http://homepage.mac.com/callistc/SacredHarpSingersintro.html20 or so downloadable mp3s and interviews.

Hi!        After surviving a trip the a supermarket full of people filling
their carts with turkeys, I found the following on Ebay.        SONGSTERS        3942476650 - Walter L. Main & Van Amburgh Circus Songster, 1890,
$32.11 (ends Nov-24-04 17:50:55 PST)        3942339467 - the Barnum and Bailey Circus songster, 1892, $12
(ends Nov-24-04 18:15:00 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4505190435 - Midwest Folklore, journal, summer 1957, $3.95 (ends
Nov-24-04 09:29:46 PST)        4054087972 - 2 LPs (one of interest is Songs From the Hills of
Donegal by Barry), $5 (ends Nov-27-04 07:10:55 PST)        4054420805 - GREEN FIELDS OF ILLINOIS, LP, 1962, $2 (ends Nov-28-04
10:17:17 PST)        6936812333 - Glasgow Chapbook, 1835?, 6 GBP (ends Nov-29-04 08:58:55
PST)        3763698622 - Broadside (A New Song on Luckey Elopement), 1860?,
$17.50 (ends Nov-29-04 21:00:00 PST)        SONGBOOKS        6936462837 - Scotch Songs & Ballads by Macdonald, 1893, 51 GBP
(ends Nov-22-04 11:46:36 PST)        6936323135 - MOUNTAIN MINSTRELSY OF PENNSYLVANIA by Shoemaker,
1931, $29.99 (ends Nov-23-04 18:00:00 PST)        4505056963 - Haulin' Rope & Gaff by Ryan & Small, 1978, $20 (ends
Nov-23-04 18:32:28 PST)        3762927748 - KERRS 'BUCHAN' BOTHY BALLADS, 2.99 GBP (ends
Nov-24-04 09:09:50 PST)        4505237060 - FOLKSONGS Sung in Ulster by Morton, 1970, $2 (ends
Nov-24-04 12:19:24 PST)        4505246055 - Blow the Candle Out "Unprintable" Ozark Folksongs and
Folklore, Volume II by Randolph, 1992, $14.99 (ends Nov-24-04 12:49:03 PST)        4505256666 - The Ballad Tree by Wells , 1950, $2.49 (ends
Nov-24-04 13:23:50 PST)        6936485086 - Remains of Galloway & Nithsdale Song by Cromer, 1810,
30 GBP (ends Nov-24-04 14:21:18 PST)        6936488286 - Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border by Henderson, 1931,
6.99 GBP (ends Nov-24-04 14:53:03 PST)        4505464707 - BALLADS AND SEA SONGS FROM NOVA SCOTIA by MacKenzie,
1928, $31 (ends Nov-25-04 06:54:53 PST)        4505468008 - The English and Scottish Popular Ballads by Child,
volume 1, 2002 Loomis edition, $19.99 (ends Nov-25-04 07:07:49 PST)        4505820355 - Way Out in Idaho by Sorrels, 1991, $8 (ends Nov-26-04
08:54:56 PST)        4505990404 - Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams by
Palmer, 1983, $2 (ends Nov-27-04 02:39:25 PST)        3763826605 - The Vagabonds--collection of Mountain Ballads, Old-time
Songs and Hymns, 1934 printing, $1.99 (ends Nov-27-04 11:17:50 PST)        3764108385 - Blue Grass Roy THE HAMLIN'S KORN KRACKER BOOK NO 4
WORLD'S GREATEST COLLECTION OF COWBOY AND MOUNTAIN BALLADS, 1936, $5.95
(ends Nov-28-04 12:43:28 PST)        4505667351 - SLAVE SONGS by Silverman, 1994, $12.75 (ends Nov-28-04
15:47:13 PST)        4505874374 - Songs of Irish Rebellion by Zimmerman, 2002, 2 GBP
(ends Nov-29-04 11:58:31 PST)        3763991890 - Songs of the Midlands by Palmer, 1972, 0.99 GBP (ends
Dec-01-04 06:37:02 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hello everyone,According to Vance-Legman Vol.2 _Blow The Candle Out_
on pg. 647, there is a 1959 Mack McCormick manuscript of
bawdy songs.  Does anyone know of this MS?I would assume that it is not the 1960 booklet but is the
research notes and other items which Mack recorded
because Legman is discussing "Roll Your Leg Over"
on pg. 647 which is not found on the Unexpurgated
Folk Songs of Men LP but IS purportedly found in
the McCormick MS.Legman doesn't even mention the McCormick MS in any
of his bibliographies.  Anyone here know of its existence?Yours,John Mehlberg
~
My, mostly traditional, bawdy songs, toasts and recitations
website:  http://www.immortalia.com/html/

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Folks:I am continually amazed -- and guided -- by the assembled  wisdom on ballad-l.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: [unmask]
Date: Monday, November 22, 2004 6:51 am
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 11/21/04> In a message dated 11/22/2004 2:46:08 AM GMT Standard Time,
> [unmask] writes:
>
> >
> >
> >     3763698622 - Broadside (A New Song on Luckey Elopement), 1860?,
> > $17.50 (ends Nov-29-04 21:00:00 PST)
> >
>
> Peter Brereton again! Overpriced already. Probably misdated - about
> 7 years
> too early.
>
> John Moulden
>

John:This MAY be a file I sent to Legman ca. 1960, during a period when I was his unofficial American correspondent.  I assembled a number of collections for his use,  the source of  which he failed to acknowledge in his later writings after he suffered an attack of "paranoids."I no longer have copies of all of the material sent to Legman.Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: John Mehlberg <[unmask]>
Date: Sunday, November 21, 2004 6:56 pm
Subject: Mack McCormick Bawdy Songs MS> Hello everyone,
>
> According to Vance-Legman Vol.2 _Blow The Candle Out_
> on pg. 647, there is a 1959 Mack McCormick manuscript of
> bawdy songs.  Does anyone know of this MS?
>
> I would assume that it is not the 1960 booklet but is the
> research notes and other items which Mack recorded
> because Legman is discussing "Roll Your Leg Over"
> on pg. 647 which is not found on the Unexpurgated
> Folk Songs of Men LP but IS purportedly found in
> the McCormick MS.
>
> Legman doesn't even mention the McCormick MS in any
> of his bibliographies.  Anyone here know of its existence?
>
> Yours,
>
> John Mehlberg
> ~
> My, mostly traditional, bawdy songs, toasts and recitations
> website:  http://www.immortalia.com/html/
>

Someone here was collecting these?
Here's another variant.Psigh 23
   Bush is my shepherd; I dwell in want.
   He maketh logs to be cut down in national forests.
   He leadeth trucks into the still wilderness.
   He restoreth my fears.
   He leadeth me in the paths of international disgrace for his ego's sake.
   Yea, though I walk through the valley of pollution and war,
   I will find no exit, for thou art in office.
   Thy tax cuts for the rich and thy media control, they discomfort me.
   Thou preparest an agenda of deception in the presence of thy religion.
   Thou anointest my head with foreign oil.
   My health insurance runneth out.
   Surely megalomania and false patriotism shall follow me all the days of
       thy term,
   And my jobless child shall dwell in my basement forever.Yrs,
Barbara Millikan

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Dave:Kind of you to comment.  The BBC programme (note how quickly I have picked up the local dialect) is the second of three I am doing for BBC shows.  I am scheduled to do the Robert Elms show, live,  on Monday, December  6.  Check  your local listing for the time.Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, November 26, 2004 11:45 am
Subject: BBC Radio 4> I felt a little frisson of excitement as I heard the name Ed Cray
> mentioned on BBC Radio 4 tonight.
>
> BBC Radio 4 - "Front Row" (which is an arts/review programme)
> talking about Woody Guthrie and positively reviewing Ed's book
> "Rambling Man".
>
> Along with Lomax, Pete Seeger et al. And a superb recording of
> Seeger singing "This Land is Your Land".
>
> Best regards
>
> Dave Eyre
>

Has there been any attention from the home side of pond, Ed (as in audio
possibilities)??~ Becky Nankivell
Tucson, ArizonaAutomatic digest processor wrote:>Date:    Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:57:23 -0800
>From:    edward cray <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4
>
>Dave:
>
>Kind of you to comment.  The BBC programme (note how quickly I have picked up the local dialect) is the second of three I am doing for BBC shows.  I am scheduled to do the Robert Elms show, live,  on Monday, December  6.  Check  your local listing for the time.
>
>Ed
>
>

Becky:There was/is considerable attention ot the rlease of _Ramblin' Man_ in February.  You can "Google" me PLUS the book to get a sampling of reviews,  and you can look the book up on Amazon.com for some ten reviews by readers.I do not know if NPR archives its programs permanently, or how you would search them, but I did do a Sunday Weekend Edition  interview as well.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Becky Nankivell <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, November 26, 2004 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4> Has there been any attention from the home side of pond, Ed (as in
> audiopossibilities)??
>
> ~ Becky Nankivell
> Tucson, Arizona
>
> Automatic digest processor wrote:
>
> >Date:    Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:57:23 -0800
> >From:    edward cray <[unmask]>
> >Subject: Re: BBC Radio 4
> >
> >Dave:
> >
> >Kind of you to comment.  The BBC programme (note how quickly I
> have picked up the local dialect) is the second of three I am doing
> for BBC shows.  I am scheduled to do the Robert Elms show, live,
> on Monday, December  6.  Check  your local listing for the time.
> >
> >Ed
> >
> >
>

Hi!        I hope that everyone had a good Thanksgiving - lots of food,
drink, and football (if interested). :-)        Here is the latest Ebay list.        SONGSTERS        3764519671 - The Patriotic No License Songster, 1909, $15 (ends
Dec-03-04 06:28:07 PST)        3764780643 - The Merry Companion; Or, Universal Songster, 1745,
$9.99 (ends Dec-05-04 15:48:00 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        4054895450 - The English and Scottish Popular Ballads (Child
Ballads), MacColl & Llyod, double LP, 1956, $9.99 (ends Nov-29-04 20:14:18
PST)        4054912300 - Granny Riddle's Songs And Ballads, LP, 1977, $7.50
(ends Nov-29-04 21:46:11 PST)        SONGBOOKS        4506802437 - A GUIDE TO ENGLISH FOLK SONG COLLECTIONS 1822-1952 BY
Dean-Smith, 1954, 2.99 GBP (ends Nov-28-04 03:49:14 PST)        4506404886 - A Pioneer Songster: Texts From The STEVENS-DOUGLASS
MANUSCRIPT OF WESTERN NEW YORK 1841-1856 by Thompson, 1958, $8 (ends
Nov-28-04 14:55:48 PST)        4506406494 - BALLADS AND SONGS FROM OHIO by Eddy, 1939, $3.99 (ends
Nov-28-04 15:02:07 PST)        6937126972 - The Whorehouse Bells Were Ringing by Logsdon, 1989,
$9.99 (ends Nov-28-04 19:56:12 PST)        6937378344 - Folk Songs of Canada by Fowke & Johnston, 1954, 20 GBP
(ends Nov-29-04 02:58:10 PST)        6937191225 -  Bibliotheca Curiosa THE BALLAD BOOK by Kinloch, 1885,
4.99 GBP (ends Nov-29-04 11:51:23 PST)        7936771422 - America Sings by Carmer, 1942, $4.50 (ends Nov-29-04
11:55:45 PST)        4506689574 - He Was Singin' This Song by Tinsley, 1982, $5.95 (ends
Nov-29-04 15:59:56 PST)        4506747847 - American Mountain Songs by Richardson/Spaeth, 1955,
$9.99 (ends Nov-29-04 19:47:24 PST)        4507005964 - Ballads and Songs from Ohio by Eddy, 1964 reprint,
$8.95 (ends Nov-30-04 17:46:20 PST)        6937399687 - Old English Ballads and Folk Songs by Armes, 1913
edition, $9.99 (ends Dec-01-04 08:13:03 PST)
        also 4507264636 - 1918 edition, $2.50 (ends Dec-01-04 16:50:56 PST)        4507386729 - Pennsylvania Songs and Legends by Korson, 1949, $15
(ends Dec-02-04 07:19:58 PST)        4507612089 - TALES & SONGS OF SOUTHERN ILLINOIS by Neely, 1998
edition, $12.50 (ends Dec-03-04 08:20:56 PST)        6937672281 - Popular Music of the Olden Time by Chappell, 1860,
$75 (ends Dec-03-04 12:21:38 PST)        6937400201 - American Sea Songs and Chanteys by Shay, 1948, $12.95
(ends Dec-04-04 08:18:20 PST)        6937504563 - Traditional Ballad Airs by Christie, 2 volumes, 1881,
10 GBP w/reserve (ends Dec-06-04 04:00:00 PST)        3856143257 - Folk Songs of Old Hampshire by Browne, 2.50 GBP (ends
Dec-06-04 08:50:03 PST)        3856154464 - Marrow Bones: English Folk songs from the Hammond &
Gardiner Manuscripts by Purslow, 1.50 GBP (ends Dec-06-04 09:44:58 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Yes, that's the other reference I wonder about. Jacob
lost her only son in WWI. I have an MP3 file of the
tune, if you are interested. Thanks.C.
>
> Nothing whatever to do with Charles Edward Stewart.
> The final verses of the poem (a fine one, I
> agree; I haven't heard it set to music) refer to
> those who died, in France, in a rather more recent
> war.
>
> Malcolm Douglas

I have been informed that both the Norfolk Southern and the Atlantic
Coast Line had trains traveling between Greenville, NC, and Norfolk,
VA.  Only the ACL, however, could have crossed the Western Branch.
That line "terminated and Pinners Point and ferried passengers to
Norfolk."The NS crossed a number of other rivers with drawbridges, but not the
Western Branch.John

Previously in this string there was a discussion of sources for finding
cities in the US. There is a good 1895 Atlas available athttp://www.livgenmi.com/1895/You never know when these things will come in handy.John Garst wrote:> I have been informed that both the Norfolk Southern and the Atlantic
> Coast Line had trains traveling between Greenville, NC, and Norfolk,
> VA.  Only the ACL, however, could have crossed the Western Branch.
> That line "terminated and Pinners Point and ferried passengers to
> Norfolk."
>
> The NS crossed a number of other rivers with drawbridges, but not the
> Western Branch.
>
> John
>

As one of the scheduled speakers  - I am happy to be recorded.Dave> I'm sure we could record the afternoon session. The University Music Dept
> has excellent facilities and they very kindly place them  at our disposal.
> Also Doc Rowe, who is giving a presentation on his archives, usually
> records such things anyway. What sort of format would be best for the
> recording from your point of view? Is anyone else interested?
> By the way Martin Graebe, who is one of the leading lights in research on
> Baring Gould, has offered to give a short presentation on Baring Gould's
> collecting in Yorkshire. Coming from Yorkshire myself I wasn't aware that
> Baring Gould had actually taken down any songs in Yorkshire when he was a
> vicar, at Rothbury was it? I knew he had made comments in his writing,
> about songs the mill girls sang, but not that he actually collected
> anything at this stage in his career, so I am looking forward to this with
> great interest.
> SteveG
>

Thanks, Dave,
Heather Wood of YT fame is planning to be there + other new members.
It's looking good.
Steve.>From: Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
>Reply-To: Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]>
>To: [unmask]
>Subject: Re: TSF
>Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:09:51 -0000
>
>As one of the scheduled speakers  - I am happy to be recorded.
>
>Dave
>
>
> > I'm sure we could record the afternoon session. The University Music
>Dept
> > has excellent facilities and they very kindly place them  at our
>disposal.
> > Also Doc Rowe, who is giving a presentation on his archives, usually
> > records such things anyway. What sort of format would be best for the
> > recording from your point of view? Is anyone else interested?
> > By the way Martin Graebe, who is one of the leading lights in research
>on
> > Baring Gould, has offered to give a short presentation on Baring Gould's
> > collecting in Yorkshire. Coming from Yorkshire myself I wasn't aware
>that
> > Baring Gould had actually taken down any songs in Yorkshire when he was
>a
> > vicar, at Rothbury was it? I knew he had made comments in his writing,
> > about songs the mill girls sang, but not that he actually collected
> > anything at this stage in his career, so I am looking forward to this
>with
> > great interest.
> > SteveG
> >_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!
http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:18:13 -0800, Norm Cohen wrote:>Friends:
>Can anyone provide dates for the following artists:The happy file gives just two of them.>Stanley Baby>Green Bailey (death)
Born 3/11 - Per http://www.oldtimeherald.org/pages/birthday.htm
Old-time Music birthday list>Dillard Chandler (death)
no>Carrie Grover
no>Maggie Hammons Parker (death)
b Sept 1>Burl Hammons (death)
no
>Sherman Hammons (death)
no
>Obray Ramsey
b9/24/1913 (dAug 1997) SS #245-80-9232, Last residence: Marshall, Madison,
NC. (from Social Security Death Index
-http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/)
Note: Info is accurate but it is possible there was another of the same
name.  It would be better to verify at least one of the data.Per Lawless (supp.): grew up in western NC>Grant Rogers (death)
no
>Norm Cohen
13 Dec, 1936.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3552370.stmby Chris Summers and Dominic Bailey
BBC News OnlineCan a musical genre be considered so dangerous as to be banned from the
radio? Yes, according to the authorities in some parts of Mexico who have forced
radio stations to take action in an attempt to stamp out the culture of "narco
corridos", which they accuse of glamorising drug trafficking and gangsterism.Los Tigres del Norte are the foremost exponents of the narco corrido
Corridos, or ballads, have been a Mexican tradition - especially in the north
of the country - for at least 100 years.
The songs, based on polkas and waltzes, feature lyrics backed by accordions
and brass bands.
The Mexican Revolution, which lasted from 1910 to 1917, triggered hundreds of
corridos about legendary figures such as Pancho Villa and Emiliano Zapata.
But over the past 30 years the biggest growth area has been the narco
corridos, which are based on the real lives of drug smugglers.

The Ata?e Oliveira Research Centre (University of the Algarve, Portugal) 
publishes the yearly journal      ESTUDOS DE LITERATURA ORAL (E. L. O.),devoted to the study of all aspects and genres of Oral Literature from every 
country.Issue 9/10 (2003/2004) has just come out.It has 360 pages, and includes 15 articles on folktales, legends, ballads, 
proverbs, improvised songs, as well as the theory of oral literature. 22 
reviews are also included.The table of contents of this issue (with abstracts of each article in 
English) can be accessed atwww.fchs.ualg.pt/ceao/ingles/inc/revista09_ing.htmThe OFFICIAL price of this issue is 30 euros (Europe) and 40 euros 
(countries outside Europe).BUT... to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the journal, we are pleased to 
offer THE MEMBERS OF THIS MAILING LIST A SPECIAL PRICE: 15 euros (Europe) 
and 20 euros (other countries).If you are interested, please write to [unmask]The indexes and abstracts of previous issues (from nr 1, 1995) are available 
either athttp://www.fchs.ualg.pt/ceao/INC/revista.html (with abstracts in Portuguese)or at http://www.fchs.ualg.pt/ceao/ingles/inc/journal.html (with abstracts 
in English).Thank you very much for your interest.J. J. Dias Marques
F. C. H. S. / Universidade do Algarve
8005-139  Faro / Portugal
Tel. / Phone: +351 289800900, ext. 7410
Tel. pessoal / Personal  phone: +351 962651919
Fax: + 351 289818560
[unmask]
http://www.fchs.ualg.pt/ceao/

Hi, all
As 'Gripperfolk' (Don't ask!) I've got bids on
79 Black Letter Ballads
Sharp's Eng Folk Songs Some Conclusions (There is another copy on at the
moment)
Karpeles' Cecil Sharp Folk Song Collection Vol 2. (I'm deperate for this
one to complete the set and enhance my indexes.)
SteveG

An early "John Henry, the Steel Driving Man" is given on an undated
broadside published by W. T. Blankenship, now know to be from
Huntsville, Alabama.  Based on other broadsides published by
Blankenship, I suspect a date of ca 1910.If there was an historic basis in an event of 1870-72 (at Big Bend
Tunnel, WV) or of 1887-88 (at Dunnavant, AL) and the ballad came
shortly thereafter, then there was a period of about 20-35 years
before the ballad surfaced.  Lots of songsters, poems, broadsides,
etc., were published during the late 19th century.I am ever hopeful of coming across an earlier version.  This is a
request that those of you who see late 19th-/early 20th-century
materials keep "John Henry" and me in mind.Thank you.John

Folks:Like the sender, I am in need of a lift on this day after.  Here is a trickster tale on the order of  Tom Sawyer's fence-painting escapade.Ed
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------From     Gregory Hansen <[unmask]>
Sent    Wednesday, November 3, 2004 1:59 pm
To      [unmask]
Subject         [PUBLORE] Irish humorI've needed to hear a couple good jokes today.  One of my Irish buddies sent me this one.  Hope you enjoy it.- Gregory O'Hansen    Letter from an Irishman,,,,    Old Sean lived alone in Northern Ireland. He wanted to spade his potato garden, but it was very hard work. His only son, Mick, who used to help him, was in an English prison.    The old man wrote a letter to his son and described his predicament:    Dear Mick,    I am feeling a mite down because it looks like I won't be able to plant me potato garden this year. I'm just getting too old to be digging up a garden plot. If you were here, all my troubles would be over. I know you would dig the plot for me.    Love, Dad    A few days later he received a letter from his son:    Dear Father,    Whatever you do, don't dig up the garden! That's where I buried all them flamin BODIES!    Love, Mick    At 4 A. M. the next morning, a dozen agents from Scotland Yard and local police officers showed up and dug up the entire garden down to a depth of about six feet. That evening, not finding any bodies, they apologized to the old man and left.    The next day the old man received another letter from his son:    Dear Father,    Go ahead and plant yer spuds now. It's the best I could do under the circumstances.    Love, Mick

I have just been looking at Albert Friedman's "The Penguin Book
of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking World" and thinking I
really ought to learn "Charles Guiteau".  Easy enough to think
of tunes that will fit, but was there a specific tune intended
for its parent, "The Lamentation of James Rodgers"?  (Friedman
references Louise Pound, "American Ballads and Songs", 1922,
which I haven't seen).I think there's a song about Czolgocz too, isn't there?-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site, please. <---

On 11/4/04, Jack Campin wrote:>I have just been looking at Albert Friedman's "The Penguin Book
>of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking World" and thinking I
>really ought to learn "Charles Guiteau".  Easy enough to think
>of tunes that will fit, but was there a specific tune intended
>for its parent, "The Lamentation of James Rodgers"?  (Friedman
>references Louise Pound, "American Ballads and Songs", 1922,
>which I haven't seen).There certainly is, and it's been used for all sorts of similar
songs. I stronly suspect you've heard it somewhere. I'll give
you the whole Ballad Index entry on the principle that it gives
you the maximum number of chances to recognize the song or a
relative. As you'll see, it's pretty popular. :-)NAME: Charles Guiteau [Laws E11]
DESCRIPTION: Charles Guiteau, having assassinated President Garfield, is
   unable to escape the law. His insanity defense is rejected, and he is
   sentenced to die.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1907 (Belden)
KEYWORDS: murder execution gallows-confession madness
HISTORICAL REFERENCES: July 2, 1881 - James A. Garfield is shot by Charles
   Guiteau, who thought Garfield owed him a patronage job. Garfield had been
   president for less than four months
Sept 19, 1881 - Death of Garfield
June 30, 1882 - Hanging of Charles Guiteau
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,So,SE)
REFERENCES (18 citations):
Laws E11, "Charles Guiteau"
Belden, pp. 412-413, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text)
Randolph 134, "Charles Guiteau" (2 texts plus 3 excerpts or fragments, 3
   tunes)
Eddy 128, "Charles Guiteau, or, The Murder of James A. Garfield" (1 text)
BrownII 249, "Charles Guiteau" (4 texts, 3 fragments, plus 1 excerpt and
   mention of 3 more)
Chappell-FSRA 111, "Charles Guiteau" (1 fragment, 1 tune)
Hudson 101, pp. 238-239, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text plus mention of 3 more)
Friedman, p. 230, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text)
McNeil-SFB1, pp. 56-59, "Charles Guiteau" (2 texts, 2 tunes)
Combs/Wilgus 58, pp. 186-187, "Charles J. Guiteau" (1 text)
Lomax-FSNA 142, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text, 1 tune, claiming to be a
   transcription of the earliest recorded version by Kelley Harrell -- but
   in fact the text has been slightly modified)Combs/Wilgus 58, pp. 186-187, "Charles J. Guiteau" (1 text)
Lomax-FSNA 142, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text, 1 tune, claiming to be a
   transcription of the earliest recorded version by Kelley Harrell -- but
   in fact the text has been slightly modified)
LPound-ABS, 65, pp. 146-148, "Charles Guiteau or James A. Garfield" (1 text,
   joined with "The Murder of F. C. Benwell")
Burt, pp. 226-227, "(Charles Guiteau)" (1 text plus a fragment, 1 tune)
Darling-NAS, pp. 192-193, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text plus a fragment of
   "James Rodgers")
Asch/Dunson/Raim, p. 48 "Charles Giteau" (sic) (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 290, "Charles Guiteau" (1 text)
DT 623, CGUITEAU*
cf. Gardner/Chickering, p. 478, "Charles Guitea" (source notes only)
Roud #444
RECORDINGS:
Loman D. Cansler, "Charles Guiteau" (on Cansler1)
Kelly Harrell, "Charles Giteau" (Victor 20797B, 1927; on KHarrell02, AAFM1)
Roscoe Holcomb, "Charles Guitau" [instrumental version] (on Holcomb1)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Gustave Ohr" (meter)
cf. "George Mann" (meter)
cf. "Ewing Brooks" [Laws E12] (tune & meter)
cf. "The Fair at Turloughmore" (floating lyrics)
cf. "The Murder of F. C. Benwell" [Laws E26] (tune & meter)
cf. "Big Jimmie Drummond" (lyrics)
cf. "Mister Garfield" (subject)
NOTES: The song probably derives from "The Lamentation of James Rodgers"
   (executed Nov. 12, 1858) or one of its kin (e.g. "My Name it is John T.
   Williams") - PJS, RBW
File: LE11>I think there's a song about Czolgocz too, isn't there?Well -- there's "McKinley Hollered/White House Blues," recorded by
Charlie Poole among others. Also used for "Cannonball Blues."--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

> On 11/3/04, Jack Campin wrote:
>
>>I think there's a song about Czolgocz too, isn't there?On 11/3/04, Bob Waltz answered:> Well -- there's "McKinley Hollered/White House Blues," recorded by
> Charlie Poole among others. Also used for "Cannonball Blues."Exactly.  I remember a verse to a version of Whitehouse Blues that went
something likeZolgotz you done him wrong
Shot McKinley he was walking along
In Buffalo. In Buffalo.I can't recall what book I saw that in.Ben Schwartz

Hi, David:
Rereading the following old email reminds me:  Didn't I order this some time
ago?  Was it ever shipped?
Cordially,
Norm CohenI thought it might interest those watching this thread to know that Heritage
Muse, Inc. has the following titles available in digital form (in addition
to Child's ESPB):JMEB-110        $20   "The Early Ballad Collections of James Maidment"
includes "A North Countrie Garland" (1824) Revised, with a new introduction,
by Edmund Goldsmid and privately printed in Edinburgh, 1891 and "A New Book
of Old Ballads" (1843)Edinburgh 1843, reprinted Edinburgh 1891.JRNG-210        $20     "Northern Garlands by Joseph Ritson, esq."
includes:
"The Bishopric Garland or Durham Minstrel" (1792)
"The Yorkshire Garland" (1788)
"The Northumberland Garland or Newcastle Nightingale" (1793) "The
North-Country Chorister" (1802)GKBC-310        $25     "Ballad Collections of George Ritchie Kinloch"
Includes: "Ancient Scottish Ballads" (1827) and "The Ballad Book" (1827)
With computer playable tunes for the music notations.CSBB-410        $20     "A Ballad Book by Charles Kirkpatrick Sharpe"
edited by David Laing. (available Nov 2004)These can be acquired separately or in the package:Heritage Collectors - Bookshelf I (digital editions)
"The English and Scottish Popular Ballads"                              $125"The Early Ballad Collections of James Maidment"                        $ 20"Northern Garlands by Joseph Ritson, esq."                              $ 20"Ballad Collections of George Ritchie Kinloch"                          $ 25"The Ballad Book by Charles Kirkpatrick Sharpe "        $ 20
======================================================================
Bookshelf I Total
$ 210
Bookshelf I discount
-   15
======================================================================
Sub Total
$ 195All titles in this series are available in paper as print on demand. Please
email or call for pricing and shipping information.Now in production...Watch for these Bookshelf II and III titles in 2005:"Traditional Tunes from the Child Ballads by B.H. Bronson"
"Robin Hood... by Joseph Ritson, esq."
"Scottish Songs by Joseph Ritson, esq."
"Scottish Ballads and Songs by James Maidment"
"Ancient & Modern Scottish Songs by David Herd"
"The Ballad Book by William Allingham"
"Minstrelsy, Ancient and Modern by William Motherwell (Vols I & II)"Please feel free to suggest other titles.David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On
Behalf Of edward cray
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 6:55 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Kessinger PublishingWell, for starters, I would suggest all of Ritson.  Then Margaret Hunt's
translation of the Grimm Tales.  And all of Curtin's Irish collections.
Then there are the OUP Press editions of Sharp's Engliosh and Appalachian
collections.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: Kessinger Publishing> Thanks, Ed,
> Just ordered the Jamieson at $54.95 + PP to UK at $8.98 and all this is
> still a third of the price of any original copies I've seen for sale.
> There are several other titles on this marvellous site which look
> interesting when I've time to look more closely. It's well worth a look
> for anyone on our list. Just try typing in 'ballads' for a starter.
>
> It may be worth us getting together and suggesting some titles to them to
> publish.
>
> SteveG
>

>I am in need of a lift on this day after.Whilst I was an undergraduate Reagan was elected. An American post grad.
came in wearing a black arm band and a very professionally made badge
(button) saying:"George III was right, we Americans are not fit to govern themselves".I wonder what she is saying today!!Best regards,Dave
PS We aren't any better...........

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

David,Any news on my electronic ESPB for Mac? Its been over a year now.....Mike Luster
611 A Roselawn Ave
Monroe, LA  71201

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:27:47 -0500, bennett schwartz wrote:>> On 11/3/04, Jack Campin wrote:
>>
>>>I think there's a song about Czolgocz too, isn't there?
>
Is there a patern here?
:-)>On 11/3/04, Bob Waltz answered:
>
>> Well -- there's "McKinley Hollered/White House Blues," recorded by
>> Charlie Poole among others. Also used for "Cannonball Blues."
>
>Exactly.  I remember a verse to a version of Whitehouse Blues that went
>something like
>
>Zolgotz you done him wrong
>Shot McKinley he was walking along
>In Buffalo. In Buffalo.This ver. omited by Bob (well, it could happen)
"Mister MacKinley," Lomax, FSNA, song #143.  (The BI does list it under
Mister McKinley {White House Blues} but I think it's a separate song.)Also, there's the lovely cante-fable, "Mister Garfield" as sung by Art
Thieme on _On the Wilderness Road_, Folk-Legacy, 1986:
        Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot down, shot down,
        He's feelin' mighty low;
        Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot.No source is given for it except 'trad.'-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Thanks Ed.  I needed that.Peace,Stephanie Crouch

So did I.        Marge -----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On
Behalf Of Stephanie Crouch
Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:45 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: A Trickster TaleThanks Ed.  I needed that.Peace,Stephanie Crouch

>On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:27:47 -0500, bennett schwartz wrote:
>
>>>  On 11/3/04, Jack Campin wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think there's a song about Czolgocz too, isn't there?
>>
>Is there a patern here?
>:-)
>
>>On 11/3/04, Bob Waltz answered:
>>
>>>  Well -- there's "McKinley Hollered/White House Blues," recorded by
>>>  Charlie Poole among others. Also used for "Cannonball Blues."
>>
>>Exactly.  I remember a verse to a version of Whitehouse Blues that went
>>something like
>>
>>Zolgotz you done him wrong
>>Shot McKinley he was walking along
>>In Buffalo. In Buffalo.
>
>This ver. omited by Bob (well, it could happen)
>"Mister MacKinley," Lomax, FSNA, song #143.  (The BI does list it under
>Mister McKinley {White House Blues} but I think it's a separate song.)According to Robert W. Gordon, "Delia" was first sung in the spring
of 1901.  McKinley was assassinated in the fall of that year.  Some
early versions of "Delia" and "McKinley" use the same tune and have
several verses in common (in variants, of course).  At least one
version of "Delia" uses a "Buffalo" tag line!>
>Also, there's the lovely cante-fable, "Mister Garfield" as sung by Art
>Thieme on _On the Wilderness Road_, Folk-Legacy, 1986:
>         Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot down, shot down,
>         He's feelin' mighty low;
>         Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot.
>
>No source is given for it except 'trad.' From Bascom Lamar Lunsford who got it from a NC informant.  I think
there is a version, perhaps by the same informant, in the RW Gordon
papers.>                   I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>
--
john garst    [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Abby Sale" <[unmask]><<Also, there's the lovely cante-fable, "Mister Garfield" as sung by Art
Thieme on _On the Wilderness Road_, Folk-Legacy, 1986:
        Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot down, shot down,
        He's feelin' mighty low;
        Oh, they tell me Mr. Garfield been shot.No source is given for it except 'trad.'>>Art got it from Bascom Lamar Lunsford's Library of Congress recording; he
says so in the last verse. Lunsford said he collected it in, I believe,
1908.Peace,
Paul