Folks:In February, 1960, Penguin released its slender "Book of English Folk Songs"
which I favorably reviewed for _Western Folklore._  Forty-three years later,
the English Folk Dance and Song Society brings forth a new, expanded edition
as resised by Malcolm Douglas.The seventy songs of the original remain, but supplemented by further end
notes and references.  Moreover, Douglas has gone back to the collectors'
original papers to recover biographies of many of the singers who contributed
these most singable songs and ballads.Forty-three years and the songs are as marvelous as ever.  Forty-three years,
and the added material in this revised edition includes a new bibliography
(half of the entries appearing since 1960) and a small collection of online
resources (which did not then exist).Forty-three years ago, the Penguin edition sold for 95c, or about $2.35.  The
new edition costs about ten times that in today's dollars.It is worth it.Ed

Steve:I assume you are planning an article on this subject.  If not, would you post the texts recovered.  If you are writing something, will you let us know where it is to be found?Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:42 pm
Subject: London Heiress> Hi,
> Thanks to diligent research by Malcolm Douglas I followed up his reference
> for Glasgow University and have just received a copy of the 18th century
> version titled 'The Constant Lovers of Worcestershire' and surprise
> surprise it is an interim version of 'The Valiant Virgin' so we now have
> 17thc 'The valiant Virgin' Rox 7 p546 21 double stanzas
> 18thc 'The Constant Lovers of Worcs' Glasgow University. 11double stanzas
> 19thc 'The London Heiress' printed by Pitts (Madden) 7 1/2 double stanzas
> 20thc Scots versions, Greig Duncan follow Pitts Broadside
> 20thc S.English versions derive from 18thc version (Brisk Young Lively
> Lad)  There may have been other interim versions in print, but this
> sequence of versions is one of the best illustrations I have seen of how
> subsequent printers gradually pared down the ballad over the 3 centuries.
> SteveG
>

Dear Paul,    Did you have any luck with your query to folk DJ's on this song?
I've not got a lead anywhere.    Cheers,    Lisa

<<    Did you have any luck with your query to folk DJ's on this song?
I've not got a lead anywhere.>>Hi Lisa:Nary a word. I'd be inclined to suspect it was a family song.Peace,
Paul

Hi,Ed,
I've written a relatively brief article, outlining the history of the
ballad, for the next issue of English Dance & Song ( quarterly mag for
EFDSS), but it only contains the full text of The London Heiress. Do you
want me to post to the List the 17th century version? Roxburgh is fairly
easily accessible and also has  21 double stanzas & that's a lot of typing.
Steve

Steve:Post what you will.  The progressive paring down of a long ballad to a singable song fascinates.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Monday, February 2, 2004 11:18 am
Subject: Re: London Heiress> Hi,Ed,
> I've written a relatively brief article, outlining the history of the
> ballad, for the next issue of English Dance & Song ( quarterly mag for
> EFDSS), but it only contains the full text of The London Heiress. Do you
> want me to post to the List the 17th century version? Roxburgh is fairly
> easily accessible and also has  21 double stanzas & that's a lot of typing.
> Steve
>

Folks:I just plucked this from the Publore list:From     Douglas Day <[unmask]>
Sent    Tuesday, February 3, 2004 6:14 am
To      [unmask]
Cc
Bcc
Subject         cross-post: new bookWith permission.  I thought this might be of interest.>Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 08:15:36 +0900
>From: Gavin James Campbell <[unmask]>
>Subject: Music Festivals
>
>I'm somewhat ashamed to reply, but not sufficiently as to prevent me from
>plugging my book which is coming out this month with UNC Press:  Music and
>the Making of a New South, which has a chapter on the Georgia Old Time
>Fiddlers' Contest, held in Atlanta beginning in 1913.  The footnotes will
>have many useful references to other fiddle contests throughout the South in
>the early 20th century.  Another chapter deals with another music festival,
>this one held by African Americans in Atlanta called the Colored Music
>Festival.    This may provide you with a useful counterpart to the large
>amount of material that focuses on festivals among white Southerners.
>Alright, now I'll go off and die from embarrassment.
>    Best wishes,
>Gavin James Campbell
>Associate Professor
>Graduate School of American Studies
>Doshisha University
>Kyoto, 602-8580
>JAPAN
>www.ameken-doshisha.info/
>--
Douglas Day
512 S. Ellison Lane
Waynesboro, VA 22980
540-943-5489

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Dave:It was I who asked about the book.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:14 am
Subject: Sophie Burne> Hi,
>
> Someone recently asked me about the book by Sophie Burne /Shropshire Folklore.
>
> If they would contact me again I may have some excellent news!!
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Okay here goes,
The Worcestershire Garland
Compos'd of 3 excellent New Songs
I The Constant Lover of Worcestershire.
II The Schoolmaster's Advice about choosing of a Wife.
III The Downfall of Piracy etc a sea fight between Teach(Blackbeard) and
Lieutenant Maynard.
No date or printer but other sources give it as Newcastle 1765.The Constant Lovers of Worcestershire.A Man of mean Directions,
Of late in Worcestershire,
Was guided by Affection,
To Court a Lady fair:
Whose Eyes shin'd like the Morning Dew,
Upon a Lilly bright;
She had Grace in her FFace,
Was pleasing to the Sight.She was an only Heir
Unto a Gentleman,
And all her Father's Care,
Was to match her unto one:
But the Farmer's Son being handsome,
To gain the Lady's Heart,
In so far that no Ransome,
Could ease a Lover's Smart.But when her Father came to hear,
And understand the Thing;
Then said he, I will free,
My fond Daughter in the Spring:
The Spring time being come and gone,
There did a Press begin;
And all her Father's Care,
Was to press the farmer's Son.No Money shall be taken,
Said she, if it be so,
For I will never tarry here,
But along with him will go,
On the twenty third of April,
She writ a Surgeon's Part.
With Bagle and with Instrument,
To all true loyal Hearts.With Bagle and with Instrument,
A Surgeon's Part to try,
Then said she, I will be
Where the Cannon Bullets fly:
On the twenty third of May,
Then did the Fight begin;
In the Forefront of the Battle,
There stood the Farmer's Son.Who did a Wound receive,
In thick Part of his Thigh,
In his Veins near his Reins,
There it pierc'd something nigh;
Then to the Surgeon's care,
He was commanded straight,
The first that he saw there,
Was the Surgeon's mate.And when that he had seen her,
And view'd her in every Part'
Then said he, one like thee,
Once was the Mistress of my Heart:
If she be dead, I ne'er will wed,
But stay with thee for ever;
And we will love, like a Dove,
And we'll live and die together.I'll go to thy Commander,
If he'll set thee at large,
Ten Guineas I'll surrender,
To purchase thy Discharge;
So they went both together,
And in a little Space,
She met with his Commander,
And to him told her Case.He pleased with the Gold,
Soon set the Farmer free;
And she brought him to England,
Over the raging Sea:
And when she came to her Father's Gate,
And there had knock'd a while;
Then out came her Father,
Who said, here stands my Child.Which long Time hath been missing,
I thought to see no more:
Then said she, I've been seeking,
For him that you sent o're(sic);
And since that I have found him,
And brought him safe to Shore,
I'll spend my Days in England,
And cross the Seas no more.Oh, daughter, I am sorry,
For the Thing that I've done;
Oh, Daughter, I am willing,
That he shall be my Son:
Oh, then they were married,
Without any more Delay,
And now the Farmer's Son,
Does enjoy his Lady gay.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Just thought I'd mention that there's a Shep Ginandes LP on Ebay right now,
Item number: 2594008729 .
I remember he was being discussed the other day.  I will not be bidding on it.
Here's the link:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2594008729&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1from Lisa ( aka: Strumelia Harmonia )
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Harmonia's Big B. / http://www.harmonias.com
"My Life...A Girls story of Musical Corruption"
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

"East Virginia" ("Dark Hollow") is presumed to have been the source
of "Greenback Dollar," which was pretty definitely the source of Jim
Garland's "I Don't Want Your Millions, Mister."  See The Ballad Index:http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/JRSF134.htmlNow, 2004, comes a new version, "We Don't Want Your Millions, Mister."  Seehttp://nochildleft.com/2004/jan04madcow.htmlIt is copyright 2004, Jamie McKenzie.It is not for Republicans.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Hi!        While avoiding the ice & snow outside, I found the following on
Ebay. :-)        SONGSTERS        3657832070 - Harrison Melodies, 1840, $19.95 (ends Feb-07-04
19:30:00 PST)        3659043318 - Barnum and Bailey Greatest Show On Earth Songster,
1897, $9.95 (ends Feb-10-04 16:58:57 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3584486920 - Sea Songs and Ballads by Stone, 1906, 5 GBP (ends
Feb-07-04 07:36:09 PST)        3584556927 - OZARK FOLKLORE:An Annotated Bibliography by
Randolph & McCann, volume 2, 1987, $9.50 (ends Feb-07-04 12:11:59 PST)        3584616874 - Eighty English Folk Songs from the Southern
Appalachians by Sharp & Karpeles, 1968, $9.99 (ends Feb-07-04 17:00:47 PST)        3701565207 - Southern Mountain Folksongs by McNeil, $1.99 (ends
Feb-07-04 18:53:26 PST)        3584069695 - Scots Minstrelsie, 6 volumes, 1893, 49 GBP (ends
Feb-08-04 07:33:31 PST)        3584787594 - Bawdy Ballads by Cray, 1970, 10 GBP (ends Feb-08-04
09:49:51 PST)        3583840721 - SONGS & BALLADS OF YOUNG IRELAND by MacDermott,
1896, 14 GBP (ends Feb-08-04 13:00:00 PST)        3584175184 - THE BOOK OF BRITISH BALLADS by Hall, 2 volumes,
1842-44, 165 GBP (ends Feb-08-04 13:52:26 PST)        3584922361 - Folksongs from Southern New Brunswick by Creighton,
1971, $14.99 Canadian (ends Feb-08-04 16:22:54 PST)        3584964819 - Folk singers and folksongs in America by Lawless,
1965, $9.99 (ends Feb-08-04 19:11:53 PST)        3271526716 - AMERICAN NEGRO FOLK SONGS by White, 1965 reprint,
$22 (ends Feb-08-04 20:07:49 PST)        3584980128 - Ballad Book by Allingham, 1864, $34.80 (ends
Feb-08-04 20:20:13 PST)        3585156206 - TEXAS FOLK SONGS by Owens, 1950, $7.99 (ends
Feb-09-04 16:39:34 PST)        3585074841 - DRAWN FROM THE WOOD by Shay, 1929, $9.95 (ends
Feb-09-04 19:00:00 PST)        3585203845 - Time Out Of Mind by Anderson,  1974, $12 AU (ends
Feb-09-04 20:59:01 PST)        3702055519 - JOE DAVIS FOLIO OF HILL COUNTRY SONGS AND BALLADS,
1920's, $4.99 (ends Feb-09-04 22:05:57 PST)        3585323270 - Old Time Songs and Ballads of Ireland by O'Conor,
1901, $6.51 (ends Feb-10-04 12:19:31 PST)        3584586199 - Songs Compleat & Wit and Mirth or Pills to Purge
Melancholy, volumes 5 & 6, 1719-20, $49.99 w/reserve (ends Feb-10-04
14:09:24 PST)        3585549057 - Body, Boots, & Britches: Folktales, Ballads, and
Speech from Country New York by Thompson, 1962, $3.99 (ends Feb-11-04
12:57:16 PST)        3701825027 - FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS by Ritchie,
1965, $4.99 (ends Feb-11-04 18:53:17 PST)        3585783164 - A BALLAD HISTORY OF ENGLAND by Palmer, 1979, 8 GBP
(ends Feb-12-04 13:29:22 PST)        3585142258 - BACHELOR BALLADS, 1898, $6.99 (ends Feb-12-04
15:08:50 PST)        3585804891 - THE BRITISH BROADSIDE BALLAD AND ITS MUSIC by
Simpson, 1966, $6.50 (ends Feb-12-04 15:12:05 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Folks:DO NOT purchase the "Bawdy Ballads by Cray" Dolores has entered in her search.There is a much improved, much, much expanded edition available from the Univer
sity of Illinois Press.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Dolores Nichols <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, February 6, 2004 2:57 pm
Subject: Ebay List - 02/06/04> Hi!
>
>        While avoiding the ice & snow outside, I found the following on
> Ebay. :-)
>
>        SONGSTERS
>
>        3657832070 - Harrison Melodies, 1840, $19.95 (ends Feb-07-04
> 19:30:00 PST)
>
>        3659043318 - Barnum and Bailey Greatest Show On Earth Songster,
> 1897, $9.95 (ends Feb-10-04 16:58:57 PST)
>
>        SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>        3584486920 - Sea Songs and Ballads by Stone, 1906, 5 GBP (ends
> Feb-07-04 07:36:09 PST)
>
>        3584556927 - OZARK FOLKLORE:An Annotated Bibliography by
> Randolph & McCann, volume 2, 1987, $9.50 (ends Feb-07-04 12:11:59 PST)
>
>        3584616874 - Eighty English Folk Songs from the Southern
> Appalachians by Sharp & Karpeles, 1968, $9.99 (ends Feb-07-04 17:00:47 PST)
>
>        3701565207 - Southern Mountain Folksongs by McNeil, $1.99 (ends
> Feb-07-04 18:53:26 PST)
>
>        3584069695 - Scots Minstrelsie, 6 volumes, 1893, 49 GBP (ends
> Feb-08-04 07:33:31 PST)
>
>        3584787594 - Bawdy Ballads by Cray, 1970, 10 GBP (ends Feb-08-04
> 09:49:51 PST)
>
>        3583840721 - SONGS & BALLADS OF YOUNG IRELAND by MacDermott,
> 1896, 14 GBP (ends Feb-08-04 13:00:00 PST)
>
>        3584175184 - THE BOOK OF BRITISH BALLADS by Hall, 2 volumes,
> 1842-44, 165 GBP (ends Feb-08-04 13:52:26 PST)
>
>        3584922361 - Folksongs from Southern New Brunswick by Creighton,
> 1971, $14.99 Canadian (ends Feb-08-04 16:22:54 PST)
>
>        3584964819 - Folk singers and folksongs in America by Lawless,
> 1965, $9.99 (ends Feb-08-04 19:11:53 PST)
>
>        3271526716 - AMERICAN NEGRO FOLK SONGS by White, 1965 reprint,
> $22 (ends Feb-08-04 20:07:49 PST)
>
>        3584980128 - Ballad Book by Allingham, 1864, $34.80 (ends
> Feb-08-04 20:20:13 PST)
>
>        3585156206 - TEXAS FOLK SONGS by Owens, 1950, $7.99 (ends
> Feb-09-04 16:39:34 PST)
>
>        3585074841 - DRAWN FROM THE WOOD by Shay, 1929, $9.95 (ends
> Feb-09-04 19:00:00 PST)
>
>        3585203845 - Time Out Of Mind by Anderson,  1974, $12 AU (ends
> Feb-09-04 20:59:01 PST)
>
>        3702055519 - JOE DAVIS FOLIO OF HILL COUNTRY SONGS AND BALLADS,
> 1920's, $4.99 (ends Feb-09-04 22:05:57 PST)
>
>        3585323270 - Old Time Songs and Ballads of Ireland by O'Conor,
> 1901, $6.51 (ends Feb-10-04 12:19:31 PST)
>
>        3584586199 - Songs Compleat & Wit and Mirth or Pills to Purge
> Melancholy, volumes 5 & 6, 1719-20, $49.99 w/reserve (ends Feb-10-04
> 14:09:24 PST)
>
>        3585549057 - Body, Boots, & Britches: Folktales, Ballads, and
> Speech from Country New York by Thompson, 1962, $3.99 (ends Feb-11-04
> 12:57:16 PST)
>
>        3701825027 - FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS by Ritchie,
> 1965, $4.99 (ends Feb-11-04 18:53:17 PST)
>
>        3585783164 - A BALLAD HISTORY OF ENGLAND by Palmer, 1979, 8 GBP
> (ends Feb-12-04 13:29:22 PST)
>
>        3585142258 - BACHELOR BALLADS, 1898, $6.99 (ends Feb-12-04
> 15:08:50 PST)
>
>        3585804891 - THE BRITISH BROADSIDE BALLAD AND ITS MUSIC by
> Simpson, 1966, $6.50 (ends Feb-12-04 15:12:05 PST)
>
>                                Happy Bidding!
>                                Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

On 2/6/04, edward cray wrote:>Folks:
>
>DO NOT purchase the "Bawdy Ballads by Cray" Dolores has entered in her search.
>
>There is a much improved, much, much expanded edition available from the Univer
>sity of Illinois Press.And, to add insult to injury, it's been remaindered for less than
the copy being sold here.Maybe we need to start a Ballad Book Resale Forum here, trying to
come up with a list of reasonable prices and sources for particular
books.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

What an excellent idea, Robert!
SteveG

I have put an HTML version of the TMSA Scottish folk festivals
calendar for 2004 onto my website: <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site, please. <---

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

There has been some concern voiced over his ranking methodology but the
best source for information of this type is Joel Whitburn's "Pop
Memories 1890-1954" [Record Research 1986]. The "top ten" for the 1890s
is listed as follows:01.] My Old New Hampshire Home
02.] On The Banks Of The Wabash
03.] After The Ball
04.] The Laughing Song
05.] The Band Played On
06.] Daisy Bell
07.] The Sidewalks Of New York
08.] Sweet Rosie O'Grady
09.] The Stars And Stripes Forever
10.] O Promise MeBev and Jerry Praver wrote:> What songs would have been the popular tunes of the 1890's?
> <http://www.bevjerry.com>

On 2004/02/09 at 11:57:15AM -0800, Bev and Jerry Praver wrote:> Subject: Shore Whaling        [ ... ]> A friend of ours posed this question:        Again -- I request that everyone *please* refrain from sending
HTML to the list.  I almost dropped the list's address into my
spamblocking again, as a result of automatic flagging of HTML content as
probable spam.        I'm posting this to the whole list, instead of just to the ones
who trigger it in the *hopes* that others will see and turn off HTML
before posting to the list.        Thank you,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi!        This week we have a long list with lots of interesting items. I
have omitted most of the LPs to make room for as many books as possible.        SONGSTERS        3702824842 - PATTERSON'S IDEAL SONGSTER, 1890?, $4.50 (ends
Feb-13-04 18:24:07 PST)        3586050271 - Million's Glee Book, 1851, $9.99 (ends Feb-13-04
19:24:23 PST)        2223936155 - Lookout Mountain Songster No. Two, $6 (ends
Feb-14-04 14:17:03 PST)        3703185995 - In Sunny Africa Songster, 1894, $9.50 (ends
Feb-15-04 11:55:27 PST)        3703294589 - John J. Black's Banjo Soloist Songster, $9.99
(ends Feb-15-04 18:36:03 PST)        2224490692 - Bryant's Ministrels Songster, 1859, $5.99 (ends
Feb-16-04 18:00:00 PST)        3660356108 - 101 Ranch Wild West Shows "GERONIMO" - Special
Song Album, 1908, $275.00 (ends Feb-20-04 18:00:00 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3585885626 - Border Ballads By Sharp, 4.50 GBP (ends Feb-13-04
02:14:17 PST)        3585915543 - Ballads and Songs From Ohio by Eddy, 1939, $19.99
(ends Feb-13-04 07:51:52 PST)        3384839083 - Bradley Kincaid songbook from 1932, $3 (ends
Feb-13-04 20:07:26 PST)        3586135914 - A New Book of Old Ballads by Maidment, 1885 edition,
$2.99 (ends Feb-14-04 08:44:23 PST)        3586152944 - The Ballad Book by Kinloch, 1885 printing, $2.99
(ends Feb-14-04 09:48:53 PST)        3586154569 - BRITISH BALLADS FROM MAINE by Barry, Eckstorm &
Smyth, 1929, $14.95 (ends Feb-14-04 09:54:18 PST)        3586172196 & 3586174338 - 2 issues of Western Folklore, April 1959
& Oct. 1958, $9.99 (ends Feb-14-04 11:02:56 PST)        3586208156 - The Edwardian Song Book by Turner & Miall, 1982,
4.99 GBP (ends Feb-14-04 13:03:57 PST)        3586223094 - Ballads and Ballast by Reilly, 1992, $6 (ends
Feb-14-04 14:07:29 PST)        3586223352 - Constant Lovers by Purslow, 1972, 6.10 GBP (ends
Feb-14-04 14:08:43 PST)        3586223606 - The Wanton Seed by Purslow, 1968, 3.20 GBP (ends
Feb-14-04 14:09:49 PST)        3586253838 - The Bawdy Songs & Ballads of World War II by Page,
$3 AU (ends Feb-14-04 17:08:48 PST)        3703152132 - 3 Asher Sizemore & Little Jimmie Songbooks, 1935-37,
$9.95 (ends Feb-15-04 10:18:00 PST)        3585752955 - Folksong and Music Hall by Lee, 1982, 2.50 GBP (ends
Feb-15-04 11:52:41 PST)        3586486565 - Frontier Ballads by Finger, 1927,  $40 (ends
Feb-15-04 12:04:01 PST)        3585804676 - Ballads and Songs of Indiana by Brewster, 1940,
$38.50 (ends Feb-15-04 15:10:47 PST)        3585806056 - North Pennsylvania Minstrelsy by Shoemaker, 1923,
$49.50 (ends Feb-15-04 15:19:30 PST)        3585806732 - The Quest of The Ballad by MacKenzie, 1919, $49.50
(ends Feb-15-04 15:23:26 PST)        3585807588 - American Ballads and Songs by Pound, 1922, $9.50
(ends Feb-15-04 15:28:27 PST)        3585808500 - Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, Heroic Ballads,
etc by Herd, Volume 2, 1869 reprint, $49.50 (ends Feb-15-04 15:33:17 PST)        3586587355 - TALES AND SONGS OF SOUTHERN ILLINOIS by Neely, 1938,
$9.99 (ends Feb-15-04 17:35:01 PST)        3586601199 - Texas Folk Songs by Owens, 1976 edition, $5.99
(ends Feb-15-04 18:20:23 PST)        3703303550 - 2 books (Folk Songs, Chanteys and singing games by
Farnsworth & Sharp and Sea Songs and Shanties by Whall), 1930, $10.50
(ends Feb-15-04 19:07:36 PST)        3703406866 - HISPANIC FOLK SONGS OF NEW MEXICO by Robb, 1954,
$7.50 (ends Feb-16-04 10:42:40 PST)        3586806108 - NEGRO SPIRITUALS - FROM BIBLE TO FOLKSONG by Dixon,
1976, $5.97 (ends Feb-16-04 15:53:27 PST)        2224628521 - An Amphibious Anthology of Rare Songs and Barroom
Ballads, 1968, $9.99 (ends Feb-17-04 06:27:56 PST)        3586927744 - The Year of the French, SONGS OF 1798 by O'Bradaigh,
1982, $12 (ends Feb-17-04 09:06:45 PST)        3586984933 - Folk Songs Out Of Wisconsin by Peters, 1977. $9.99
(ends Feb-17-04 12:52:17 PST)        3703640164 - SONGS OF THE MIDLANDS by Palmer, 1972, 4.99 GBP
(ends Feb-17-04 13:21:01 PST)        3586930805 - Minstrelsy: Ancient and Modern by Motherwell, 1827,
$22.25 (ends Feb-17-04 16:00:00 PST)        3586941197 - A Ballad Book by Sharpe, 1880 reprint, $21 (ends
Feb-17-04 16:15:00 PST)        3587115556 - Bill Wannan's Folklore of the Australian Pub, 1972,
$5.95 (ends Feb-18-04 05:57:36 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        2594468263 -  HIGH ATMOSPHERE - BALLADS AND BANJO TUNES FROM
VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, LP, 1974, $20 (ends Feb-13-04 18:56:03 PST)                                Hapyy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

----- Original Message -----
From: Dolores Nichols <[unmask]><<        2594468263 -  HIGH ATMOSPHERE - BALLADS AND BANJO TUNES FROM
VIRGINIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, LP, 1974, $20 (ends Feb-13-04 18:56:03 PST)>>Hi Dolores:Great list, and thanks again for doing all the work! Re. the above item: if
you're after it as a collectible that's fine, but if you mainly want the
music, you should know that Rounder has reissued it on CD for less money,
and I *think* there are some cuts that didn't make the LP.Peace,
Paul

Ed, Is that you bidding on the Maidment and Kinloch?
If so I won't.
SteveG

Steve:Yes, I am CrayXXX or whatever they assigned me.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:02 pm
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04> Ed, Is that you bidding on the Maidment and Kinloch?
> If so I won't.
> SteveG
>

Ed,
I'm sure you'll already be aware Kinloch is on line to download.
SteveG

Steve:I am not aware of this.  I am trying to amass all of Goldsmid's reprints of
ballad books.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04> Ed,
> I'm sure you'll already be aware Kinloch is on line to download.
> SteveG
>

Ed,
Robert put it on the net at
http:/www.csufresno.edu/folklore/reprints/KinlochBalladBook.html
SteveG

Steve:I got it.  I just drew a blank.  (It happens to you when you reach a certain
age.)
Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2004 10:05 am
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04> Ed,
> Robert put it on the net at
> http:/www.csufresno.edu/folklore/reprints/KinlochBalladBook.html
> SteveG
>

On 2/15/04, edward cray wrote:>Steve:
>
>I got it.  I just drew a blank.  (It happens to you when you reach a certain
>age.)
>EdIt should be noted, in any case, that this is just a transcription,
not a scan of the actual pages. While I made a serious attempt
to maintain the pagination, etc., if you want to see the actual
appearance of the book, you need to see the actual book.Besides, there are doubtless a few errors in the transcription
I failed to spot.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

It's good enough for me, Bob, and thanks for putting it on line.
Is Maidment online anywhere yet?
SteveG

Steve:Maidment's "A North Countie Garland" and "A New Book of Old Ballads" are
coming from Heritagemuse on a single CD-ROM in the next month or so.  David
Kleiman has announced it.  I do not know the price, but you can go to the
website www.heritagemuse.com, or call 212-721-9382.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Monday, February 16, 2004 10:38 am
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04> It's good enough for me, Bob, and thanks for putting it on line.
> Is Maidment online anywhere yet?
> SteveG
>

On 2/16/04, Steve Gardham wrote:>It's good enough for me, Bob, and thanks for putting it on line.
>Is Maidment online anywhere yet?Not to my knowledge. Maybe, now that I have a better OCR program,
I can take a stab at it. Have to get the program working first,
though. :-)
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Well folks,Sorry if this is too commercial but, since several people have asked about
our upcoming plans (now that the English and Scottish Popular Ballads
(digital edition) is out and shipping), and in answer to Steve Gardham's
specific query about Maidment, here is an anticipated list of publications
in preparation at Heritage Muse, Inc......Feb 2004 - "The Early Ballad Collections (1821-1838 / reprinted 1891) of
James Maidment".  Child was familiar with these privately printed pamphlets.
In fact he draws several ballads (sole source) from them. However, he left
the other Maidment versions behind because he felt that they were too
bawdy/ribald in these incarnations.  140+ pages of the complete text of both
works, with lyrics hyperlinked to the ESPB (digital edition) and links to
the Bronson currently in production.  No tunes. - PC Windows and
institutional single-seat license versions are available last week of Feb.
2004 $15 (pre-publication) or $20 (after March 1st) plus shipping and
handling.Mar 2004 - "The Northern Garlands (circa 1840 / reprinted 1891) collected by
Joseph Ritson".  Ritson was a very significant collector and a major
influence on Child's thinking.  He is one of the first to say that collected
materials should be published without editing and in their original form.
The editor's notes shed light on tune and lyric analysis.  Again, this is an
original source for Child. 300+ pages with lyric texts hyperlinked to the
ESPB and Bronson (digital editions). No tunes.May/June 2004 - "The Ballad Book by William Allingham (1879)".  Where Ritson
was founding the new school/science of folklore studies, Allingham was
collecting and publishing the Ballads from a poet's viewpoint.  He had no
problem editing the material. In fact, he says every singer does it each
time they sing a ballad. But unlike other, earlier collectors, Allingham
bases his work on source material and tells you when he has changed it. 390+
pages hyperlinked to the ESPB and Bronson (digital editions).  No tunes.July/August 2004 - "Ancient Ballads and Songs of the of North Scotland" by
Peter Buchan (1828/reprinted 1875).  Because he "reassembled" ballads from
multiple versions, Buchan was viewed with considerable scepticism by Child
and others.  However, this two volume set contains several source ballads
for Child and much that never made it into the Child opus. There are also
some interesting notes in about the lyrics. 650 + pages hyperlinked to the
ESPB and Bronson (digital editions).  No tunes.Dec. 2004 / Jan 2005 - "Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads" by Bertram
H. Bronson. Working 70 years after Child, Prof. Bronson (UC Berkley) was an
English teacher, folklorist, and fiddler. This is his four volume work 2200
+ pages with over 1,200 tunes to the Child Ballads published between 1958
and 1972.  This package is intimately connected with and is treated
similarly to the ESPB (digital edition).  Midi files for all the tunes,
expanded Place Names Index, new ballad maps, and essays on Bronson's early
efforts at digitizing tune analysis.  Audio CD of complete ballad
performances (similar to the one included with ESPB).There is some discussion of doing: "Minstrelsy Ancient and Modern" by
William Motherwell (1827).  Two volume work with 40+ tunes and Motherwell's
own publication notes.Since most of the lyrics appear in ESPB and the tunes appear in Bronson is
there any interest out there in our doing a similar digital treatment for
the Motherwell?  Please let me know.Answers to two other questions that seem to be coming up....1. Yes, the English and Scottish Popular Ballads (digital edition) is now
available world-wide.  We currently ship from NYC but we're working rapidly
on setting up the fulfillment house in the UK to cut local shipping costs.2. No, the Macintosh version is not yet available anywhere.  The issues are
technical and have to do with the Macintosh operating systems (both 9 and
X). We are working to resolve this daily and will notify everyone who has
expressed interest when the Mac edition is available.David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.
165 West End Ave - Suite 12D
New York, NY 10023
212-721-9382
www.heritagemuse.com-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On Behalf Of
Steve Gardham
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 1:39 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04It's good enough for me, Bob, and thanks for putting it on line.
Is Maidment online anywhere yet?
SteveG

Re Maidment CD Rom, Can I buy using PayPal?
How Soon UK outlet?
Can I pay my $15 now & wait till you've set up in UK to receive copy?
Can you give us some projected purchase prices on future projects,
Particularly Bronson? We won't hold you to them.
SteveG

>2. No, the Macintosh version is not yet available anywhere.  The issues are
>technical and have to do with the Macintosh operating systems (both 9 and
>X). We are working to resolve this daily and will notify everyone who has
>expressed interest when the Mac edition is available.
>
>David M. KleimanDavid,I have Macs running OS 9 (although I can also run OS X).  I am
interested and I would like to be notified when Mac editions become
available.Thanks.--
john garst    [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On 2004/02/17 at 10:32:46AM -0500, David Kleiman wrote:> Well folks,
>
> Sorry if this is too commercial        Not to me, at least.>                                 but, since several people have asked about
> our upcoming plans (now that the English and Scottish Popular Ballads
> (digital edition) is out and shipping), and in answer to Steve Gardham's
> specific query about Maidment, here is an anticipated list of publications
> in preparation at Heritage Muse, Inc......
>
> Feb 2004 - "The Early Ballad Collections (1821-1838 / reprinted 1891) of
> James Maidment".  Child was familiar with these privately printed pamphlets.        [ ... ]>                                       No tunes. - PC Windows and
> institutional single-seat license versions are available last week of Feb.
> 2004 $15 (pre-publication) or $20 (after March 1st) plus shipping and
> handling.        Single-seat license versions on what hardware/software
platforms?  As I run a mix of unix boxen here, and very seldom run
Windows (by choice), the single-seat license would be quite adequate, if
it runs on Sun's Solaris, or OpenBSD, or even Sun's SunOs 4.1.4        Thank you,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Dear Bob,With your permission, I contacted you when you originally posted the Kinloch
on line.  Since there is some interest, I would again like to offer our
services (free of charge) in converting your digitized text of the Kinloch
booklet (about 56 pages I believe) into a hyperlinked PDF for free download
by any and all seekers.  Our team will proofing and comb the texts for
corrections, etc. We will then convert your (already typed) text following
the outlines of the original Goldsmid pamphlet (currently available to our
office) and post the finished PDF back to web either via your site and/or
ours.We'd actually like to include this, fully integrated (cross searchable) with
the English and Scottish Popular Ballads (digital edition), in the Heritage
Collector's(tm) Digital series as a freebie. But if we have to re-digitize
the texts we'd have to charge for it.How about it?David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On Behalf Of
Robert B. Waltz
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:16 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/12/04On 2/15/04, edward cray wrote:>Steve:
>
>I got it.  I just drew a blank.  (It happens to you when you reach a
certain
>age.)
>EdIt should be noted, in any case, that this is just a transcription,
not a scan of the actual pages. While I made a serious attempt
to maintain the pagination, etc., if you want to see the actual
appearance of the book, you need to see the actual book.Besides, there are doubtless a few errors in the transcription
I failed to spot.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Thanks, you are on the list for immediate notification.David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On Behalf Of
John Garst
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:43 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: James Maidment (digital edition) and other Ballad Books>2. No, the Macintosh version is not yet available anywhere.  The issues are
>technical and have to do with the Macintosh operating systems (both 9 and
>X). We are working to resolve this daily and will notify everyone who has
>expressed interest when the Mac edition is available.
>
>David M. KleimanDavid,I have Macs running OS 9 (although I can also run OS X).  I am
interested and I would like to be notified when Mac editions become
available.Thanks.--
john garst    [unmask]

Steve,Let's see if I can cover all of your questions:1. <Re Maidment CD Rom, Can I buy using PayPal?>
No we do not currently accept PayPal.  We do however accept Visa,
MasterCard, Discover Card, personal checks (US $ on a US bank), or
international money orders (in US $).  For credit cards we'll need:        Card Hold Name
        Card Number
        Card Type   (Visa, MasterCard, Discover)
        Expiration Date
        CVV # (last 3 digits of the number on the signature line on back of
the card)
        Billing address
        Shipping addressWhen ordering via email with a credit card it is suggested that you split
the number into two different messages.2. <How Soon UK outlet?>
Speed on the UK shipping house will depend on how quickly they can determine
local shipping costs, set up the new business arrangements with both us and
the banks, and then receive product for shipping.  I would anticipate about
another 4-6 weeks for the ESPB (digital edition).  HOWEVER, Maidment is a
small enough package that I may decide to offer it as a website download.
I'll keep you posted.3.  <Can I pay my $15 now & wait till you've set up in UK to receive copy?>
Yes you can forward payment of the $15 now and we will deliver as it is
ready.  In fact, to keep the pre-publication price you actually need to do
that.4. <Can you give us some projected purchase prices on future projects,...>
Future pricing is a tough thing to calculate until the work is 80%-90%
complete.  Some of these projects are extremely labor intensive (converting
the Bronson tunes to MIDI for example).  Some projects can be breezed
through using OCR and other technology.  Because we are publishing to an
academic audience our proof-reading cycles are intensive.  Remember, all the
packages in this Heritage Collectors Digital series can be cross searched
from common indices. So here is the current pricing structure (all prices in
US dollars):   English and Scottish Popular Ballads (digital edition) includes data
   and audio CDs, booklet, printable/searchable digital texts, 11 digital
   maps, .wav files, midi files, etc.        Individual package                                      $125
        Institutional Single seat License                       $200
        Institutional Multi-user web-delivered content  (call or write)   Early Ballad Collections of James Maidment (digital edition) includes
   Data CD with printable/searchable digital texts and links to ESPB.        Individual package                                      $ 20 ($15
bef 3/1/04)
        Institutional Single seat License                       $ 40
        Institutional Multi-user web-delivered content  (call or write)   The Northern Garlands by Joseph Ritson (digital edition) and The
   Allingham Ballad Book (digital edition) including Data CD with
   printable/searchable digital texts and links to ESPB.  Each work will be
   priced around the same as the first Maidment.   The two volume Buchan and two volume Maidment (which I forgot to mention
   In the original list of planned works) should be just a bit more since
   they each contain over 600 pages of text.5. <Particularly Bronson?>
No firm pricing yet but figure it will be close to the Child ESPB (digital
edition) since there is a similar treatment. It includes a revised Place
Names Index, additional and enhanced and updated ballad maps, digitized
tunes and searchable texts and an audio CD and booklet.  We are well into
the conversion with the Place Name Index entries already extracted and many
pages of texts and tunes already digitized.I hope this helps.Regards,
David M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]] On Behalf Of
Steve Gardham
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 2:07 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: James Maidment (etc)Re Maidment CD Rom, Can I buy using PayPal?
How Soon UK outlet?
Can I pay my $15 now & wait till you've set up in UK to receive copy?
Can you give us some projected purchase prices on future projects,
Particularly Bronson? We won't hold you to them.
SteveGDavid M. Kleiman
President & CEO
Heritage Muse, Inc. & ESPB Publishing, Ltd.

The "toasts" of African-Americans (also collected occasionally from
whites) are recited or chanted ballads, recounting tales such as
"Shine and the Titanic" and "Stackalee," usually in very raw,
violent, and sexually explicit terms.Some (sung) versions of "John Henry" suggest sexual interpretations
of the hero's abilities.It would seem its widespread popularity and its sexual connotatioons
might make "John Henry" an ideal subject for a toast.  Yet, I am not
aware that a "John Henry" toast has been collected.Information?   Ideas?
--
john garst    [unmask]

Hi!        Here is the latest list. It is not as long or as interesting as
the previous one but hopefully, there is something of interest. I have
only included one LP since it seems that everything has been re-issued
on CD. :-/        SONGSTERS        3588032506 - The Universal Songster or Museum of Mirth, 1832,
$2.75 (ends Feb-21-04 13:00:50 PST)        3661614387 - Walter L. Main Circus Shows Clown's Songster, 1880?,
$36 (ends Feb-21-04 15:40:11 PST)        3704787935 - I Am Going To Leave Songster, 1900?, $3.99 (ends
Feb-22-04 18:36:07 PST)        2226148454 - Pat Rooney's Quaint Conundrums & Funny Gags Songster,
1890?, $3.99 (ends Feb-22-04 18:36:09 PST)        3588629784 - THE BUNKER HILL SONGSTER, 1870?, $9.95 (ends
Feb-23-04 18:03:57 PST)        3705017496 - Metropolitan Songster, 1862, $10 (ends Feb-23-04
20:04:50 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3704423407 - Doc Hopkins of Cumberland Ridgerunners Mountain
Ballads and Home Songs, 1936, $4 (ends Feb-19-04 06:57:16 PST)        3586716559 - Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border by Scott, 3
volumes, 1813, 37.51 GBP (ends Feb-19-04 09:16:41 PST)
        also 3587483696 - 1880? reprint, $31.50 (ends Feb-19-04
10:06:45 PST)        3586800617 - Ancient Scots Ballads with The Traditional Airs to
Which They Were Want to be Sung by Eyre-Todd, 29.99 GBP (ends Feb-19-04
15:17:05 PST)        3587652265 - Echoes Of Africa in Folksongs of the Americas by
Landeck, 1961, $5 (ends Feb-19-04 16:08:17 PST)        3587666318 - Pretty Peggy and other ballads by Emmet, 1880,
$85 (ends Feb-19-04 17:16:39 PST)        3587142259 - Negro Folk Music U.S.A by Courlander, 1969 printing,
$5.59 (ends Feb-19-04 20:00:00 PST)        3586952803 - THE SCOTS MUSICAL MUSEUM by Johnson, 2 volumes,
1962 edition, 3.70 GBP (ends Feb-20-04 13:00:00 PST)        3704357241 - Folk Songs of the Southern Appalachians by Ritchie,
1965, $8.50 (ends Feb-20-04 17:14:16 PST)        3587062756 - SONGS AND BALLADS from NOVA SCOTIA by Creighton,
1933, $25 (ends Feb-20-04 19:38:41 PST)        3587098262 - English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians
by Sharp, 2 volumes, 1952 printing, 175 GBP (ends Feb-21-04 02:54:23 PST)        3588555316 - Merry Songs & Ballads Prior to 1800 by Farmer, 5
volumes, 1897, $10.49 w/reserve (ends Feb-21-04 12:15:04 PST)        3588042348 - Steamboatin' Days Folk Songs of the Packet Era by
Wheeler, 1944, $9.50 (ends Feb-21-04 13:48:24 PST)        3588066102 - The Scottish Minstrel by Rogers, 1873, $9 (ends
Feb-21-04 16:11:27 PST)        3588287017 - American Negro Songs And Spirituals by Work, 1940,
$9.99 (ends Feb-22-04 12:12:16 PST)        3587554599 - THE BOOK OF BRITISH BALLADS by Hall, 2 voumes, 1842,
150 GBP (ends Feb-22-04 12:19:19 PST)        3274769483 - The Ballads of Ireland by Hayes, 2 volumes, 1856,
$9.99 (ends Feb-22-04 13:11:00 PST)        3587613061 - The Balladists by Geddie, 1896, 29.99 GBP (ends
Feb-22-04 14:13:08 PST)        3588345880 - The Oxford Book of Ballads by Kinsley, 1989 edition,
2.50 GBP (ends Feb-22-04 15:31:43 PST)        3588390256 - Radio Rubes Song Book of 1933, $3.50 (ends Feb-22-04
18:32:34 PST)        3588636095 - Mountain Ballads, $6 (ends Feb-23-04 18:33:41 PST)        3588394573 - PENNSYLVANIA SONGS AND LEGENDS by Korson, 1949,
$5.95 (ends Feb-22-04 18:46:52 PST)        3588403248 - A BIBLIOGRAPHY OF NORTH AMERICAN FOLKLORE AND
FOLKSONG by Haywood, 2 volumes, 1961 Dover edition, $6 (ends Feb-22-04
19:13:47 PST)        3705219258 - SONG FINDER: A Title Index to 32,000 Popular Songs
in Collections, 1854-1992 by Ferguson, 1995, $12.99 (ends Feb-22-04
20:33:11 PST)        3588424823 - Legendary Ballads of England and Scotland by
Roberts, 1868?, $24.99 (ends Feb-22-04 20:54:04 PST)        3587781507 - The Rambling Soldier by Palmer, 1977, 4.99 GBP
(ends Feb-23-04 08:21:31 PST)        3588547419 - Jacobite Songs and Ballads by MacQuoid, $1.89
(ends Feb-23-04 11:48:44 PST)        3588597100 - Folk Songs of Old Quebec by Barbeau, $5 (ends
Feb-23-04 15:05:45 PST)        3588657864 - Early Ballads by Bell, 1862, $9.99 (ends Feb-23-04
20:23:59 PST)        3588791189 - Body, Boots, & Britches: Folktales, Ballads, and
Speech from Country New York by Thompson, 1962, $3.99 (end Feb-24-04
12:51:01 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        2596445246 - ANGOLA PRISON WORKSONGS, LP, 1959, $29.99 (ends
Feb-21-04 13:45:00 PST)                                        Happy Bidding!
                                        Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Folks:I note in Dolores' newest ebay culling the following:3587666318 - Pretty Peggy and other ballads by Emmet, 1880,
$85 (ends Feb-19-04 17:16:39 PST)This is a handsome children's book illustrated by Rosina Emmet, the mother of
four-time Pulitzer prize winning playwright and historian Robert E. Sherwood.What makes it interesting for those of us on ballad-l is the fact that I am
sure that it was from this book that Peggy Seeger learned the ballad "Pretty
Peggy" ("Fennario").  Text and tune in the book are exactly as she popularized
it.
Ed

Thanks to Lisa S-H, I will soon have the Ginandes record she mentioned. It's interesting- it is an Elektra reprint of a 12" LP Shep had privately cut and used to sell at his occasional concerts here in Boston, usually held at local art galleries. I look forward to possible liner notes on sources- Shep is/was (I have had no contact in years, don't know if he's still with us) a hunter of obscure sources and I only just recently, buying a CD of some of the Library of Congress recordings, found his source for "Bolakins".Shep was the seminal source for my interest in and knowledge of Child ballads. In the late 40's and early 50's he had a late night show on WMEX and my then-boyfriend/later-husband and I listened avidly. We attended his concerts, met and became friendly, and in my last year of high school I even tried taking guitar lessons from Shep, who then lived in the West End, as I remember. I quickly learned that my problem with holding down a chord was acute double-jointedness and gave up, but I still think fondly of all I learned from Shep. This record means a lot to me.It also turns out I already own a copy- one of the original personally pressed ones- but it is not in great shape- some serious scratches. Once I have the newer copy in hand and have played it, the older copy is up for grabs to anyone willing to try to get something off it. Let me know if you're interested.Mary Stafford
26 Wadsworth Street
Allston, MA 02134
617-782-7266
[unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi Everyone, I'll be bidding on the Johnson reissue!   John Cowles> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:17:19 -0500
> From:    Dolores Nichols <[unmask]>
> Subject: Ebay List - 02/18/04
>
> Hi!
>
>         Here is the latest list. It is not as long or as interesting as
> the previous one but hopefully, there is something of interest. I have
> only included one LP since it seems that everything has been re-issued
> on CD. :-/
>
>         SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>         3586952803 - THE SCOTS MUSICAL MUSEUM by Johnson, 2 volumes,
> 1962 edition, 3.70 GBP (ends Feb-20-04 13:00:00 PST)
>
>                                         Happy Bidding!
>                                         Dolores
>--
     John Cowles             [unmask]
                             Optimization Technology Manager
Office: 1-972-497-4375       High Performance Technical Computing
Home:   1-972-596-6223           Division of Hewlett-Packard
Mobil:  1-214-718-3741       3000 Waterview Pkwy.
Fax:    1-972-497-4848       Richardson, TX  75080

On 2/19/04, Fred McCormick wrote:>Hi Dolores:-
>
>>>Here is the latest list. It is not as long or as interesting as
>
>>he previous one but hopefully, there is something of interest. I have only included one LP since it seems that everything has been re-issued on CD. :-/
>>
>>If you're referring to ANGOLA PRISON WORKSONGS, LP, 1959, $29.99, an augmented CD reissue is available as Prison Worksongs Recorded at the Louisiana State Penitentiary by Dr Harry Oster. Arhoolie CD 448. Oster's recordings are reconstructions of what was by then an obsolete tradition, and in
>>
>my opinion, they are not the best examples of field recorded work songs available. Certainly, $29-99 seems an enormous price, and I'd advise anyone interested to get the CD instead.You think that's bad? I was just in a Half Price Books today,
and they had a 10" Folkways recording of children's songs by
Woody Guthrie for $70.I'm not kidding. $70. I assume that was either an error or a
price gun stutter, but that's what it said.I was really tempted to walk up to the counter and tell them
about the Smithsonian/Folkways reissues. :-)--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

At 02:29 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:>You think that's bad? I was just in a Half Price Books today,
>and they had a 10" Folkways recording of children's songs by
>Woody Guthrie for $70.
>
>I'm not kidding. $70. I assume that was either an error or a
>price gun stutter, but that's what it said.
>
>I was really tempted to walk up to the counter and tell them
>about the Smithsonian/Folkways reissues. :-)People do collect Woody Guthrie, as you must know, not to mention the
scarcity of 10" Folkways. $50 - $70 is probably about right. What is more
shocking to me is the presence of such prices at such outlets. You would
expect to see such a scandalous price at a rare book dealer's premises
(like mine...heh, heh), but at Half Price Books?PaulPaul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
[unmask]

> At 02:29 PM 2/19/2004, you wrote:
>
> >You think that's bad? I was just in a Half Price Books today,
> >and they had a 10" Folkways recording of children's songs by
> >Woody Guthrie for $70.
> >
> >I'm not kidding. $70. I assume that was either an error or a
> >price gun stutter, but that's what it said.
> >
> >I was really tempted to walk up to the counter and tell them
> >about the Smithsonian/Folkways reissues. :-)
>
>
> People do collect Woody Guthrie, as you must know, not to mention the
> scarcity of 10" Folkways. $50 - $70 is probably about right. What is more
> shocking to me is the presence of such prices at such outlets. You would
> expect to see such a scandalous price at a rare book dealer's premises
> (like mine...heh, heh), but at Half Price Books?
>
> Paul
>
>
Hear Hear.......It looks to me like the small independent second hand dealer
(like me) offering quality and previously cherished volumes as careful
investments to specially selected customers is being trampled on by the big
boys once again. And electronic media.I may have to increase the medication........Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

 Thank you, Mary! You've solved a puzzle that I've thought about off and on
for thirty years. I, too, have a copy of the "unlabeled" Ginandes record
(I'm afraid it duplicates the scratches on yours as well), but I always
thought that it was a 'test' pressing of Electra EKL-133. The puzzle comes
from the fact that the matrix numbers on my pressing don't bear any
relationship to those on the Electra issue. Now everything makes sense! Shep was not without his fan club. In the early 60's there was a famous
incident at Simmons College (Boston) when a coed found a life-sized, painted
doll, made with stuffed, sewn-together sheets and labeled "Shep Ginandes"
in her dorm bed. The doll was stolen by students at BU and then by
students at MIT. It eventually ended up at Wellesley. At one point it
seemed as if half the folkie students in the Boston area were scheming
to discover the current whereabouts of the doll as well as ways of
grabbing it! Thinking about Shep Ginandes sets one wondering about other early performers:
for instance, whatever became of Ray Boguslav?   John>
> Date:    Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:51:17 -0500
> From:    Mary Stafford <[unmask]>
> Subject: Ginandes Record
>
> Thanks to Lisa S-H, I will soon have the Ginandes record she mentioned. It's interesting- it is an Elektra reprint of a 12" LP Shep had privately cut and used to sell at his occasional concerts here in Boston, usually held at local art galleries. I look forward to possible liner notes on sources- Shep is/was (I have had no contact in years, don't know if he's still with us) a hunter of obscure sources and I only just recently, buying a CD of some of the Library of Congress recordings, found his source for "Bolakins".
>
> Shep was the seminal source for my interest in and knowledge of Child ballads. In the late 40's and early 50's he had a late night show on WMEX and my then-boyfriend/later-husband and I listened avidly. We attended his concerts, met and became friendly, and in my last year of high school I even tried taking guitar lessons from Shep, who then lived in the West End, as I remember. I quickly learned that my problem with holding down a chord was acute double-jointedness and gave up, but I still think fondly of all I learned from Shep. This record means a lot to me.
>
> It also turns out I already own a copy- one of the original personally pressed ones- but it is not in great shape- some serious scratches. Once I have the newer copy in hand and have played it, the older copy is up for grabs to anyone willing to try to get something off it. Let me know if you're interested.
>
> Mary Stafford
> 26 Wadsworth Street
> Allston, MA 02134
> 617-782-7266
> [unmask]
>--
     John Cowles             [unmask]
                             Optimization Technology Manager
Office: 1-972-497-4375       High Performance Technical Computing
Home:   1-972-596-6223           Division of Hewlett-Packard
Mobil:  1-214-718-3741       3000 Waterview Pkwy.
Fax:    1-972-497-4848       Richardson, TX  75080

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert B. Waltz <[unmask]><<You think that's bad? I was just in a Half Price Books today,
and they had a 10" Folkways recording of children's songs by
Woody Guthrie for $70.I'm not kidding. $70. I assume that was either an error or a
price gun stutter, but that's what it said.I was really tempted to walk up to the counter and tell them
about the Smithsonian/Folkways reissues. :-)>>It wasn't an error. I see Folkways LPs going for silly prices on e-bay and
in the Vinyl Shack here in town all the time, especially if they're by
well-known artists like Woody. The customers are mostly collectors, who are
only secondarily interested in the music; they want the album as an Object.
This one's pretty rare, actually, because it's a kids' album, and most of
the owners of it did what I did when I was four -- played it incessantly on
my little Voice of Music phonograph, handled it with a four-year-old's
abandon, and generally trashed it. I didn't learn to take good care of LPs
until I was about 14, put on a new Tom Paxton record, and realized with a
flash of insight how much better it sounded than any of the records I had
been abusing. A careful collector (and an audiophile) was born at that
moment.I suppose I shouldn't laugh at people who want the Object, not with the
house full of 78s and LPs and CDs as it is. Hell, I have a 3rd edition of
the Radiotron Designer's Handbook around, and really like having it, even
though the 4th edition is *much* more useful.Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 02:40 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>The customers are mostly collectors, who are
>only secondarily interested in the music; they want the album as an Object.
>This one's pretty rare, actually, because it's a kids' album, and most of
>the owners of it did what I did when I was four -- played it incessantly on
>my little Voice of Music phonograph, handled it with a four-year-old's
>abandon, and generally trashed it. I didn't learn to take good care of LPs
>until I was about 14, put on a new Tom Paxton record, and realized with a
>flash of insight how much better it sounded than any of the records I had
>been abusing. A careful collector (and an audiophile) was born at that
>moment.
>
>I suppose I shouldn't laugh at people who want the Object, not with the
>house full of 78s and LPs and CDs as it is. Hell, I have a 3rd edition of
>the Radiotron Designer's Handbook around, and really like having it, even
>though the 4th edition is *much* more useful.I won't say "Guilty as charged" as you've already declared yourself guilty.
And it's certainly true that real collectors want the Object: 78rpm record,
10" Folkways LP, the Lomax Leadbelly book in dj, etc. But I don't think
it's true that such people are "secondarily interested in the music." This
is so widely believe that even my doctor often asks me, "Do you still sell
books to people who don't read them?" (Apparently his version of "How ya
doin'?)But nearly EVERY collector I know is a first-class MANIAC about the music
(or literature, or whatever the case may be), and it's the mania spillover
(to use the psychiatric term <g>) that constitutes the collecting obsession.Paul Garon (also guilty as charged).Paul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
[unmask]

At 04:11 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>Many years ago I saw a single by Howlin' Wolf in a secondhand record
>catalogue, priced at something like £35-00. The disc in question was
>Smokestack Lightnin', with Going Down Slow on the B side. I've got that
>single, but my copy has a typo, so that the B side reads Going Down South.
>Bloody hell, thinks I. This is the equivalent of finding a penny black
>with the perforations missing. I'm worth millions. I looked a bit farther
>down the list. Pye must have sold a lot of Souths before they corrected
>that mistake. My copy would have fetched a mere £12-00.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Impecunious Fred McCormick.For whatever reason (the aggregate whim of collectordom?) record and book
collectors don't think highly of errors and they are not sought after as
they are in the world of stamps.Paul GaronPaul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
[unmask]

> But nearly EVERY collector I know is a first-class MANIAC about the music
> (or literature, or whatever the case may be), and it's the mania spillover
> (to use the psychiatric term <g>) that constitutes the collecting
obsession.
>
> Paul Garon (also guilty as charged).err...........Every collector I know is also a fanatic about whatever,
books, music, vinyl, folk books, etc....(in my case Grimwade pottery)...I am
pleased to say.I sold a book yesterday to a man who said he was reading an identical
paperback copy at that same time!! But..............this one was signed by
the author and this author (Bert Lloyd) was a friend of his father. Hence
the desire for the book.The other thing is that not everyone has a computer so access via the web
and download is not universal. I sell vinyl and (fortunately for me) a lot
of people are be completists or whatever. Some people actually like vinyl.
Lat week there was an  article on Eliza Carthy in the "Guardian".  There in
the background was an old Dansette which some people swear by to play 60's
music hence their premium price.I'll just get me coat.Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

On 2/20/04, Paul Stamler wrote:>----- Original Message -----
>From: Robert B. Waltz <[unmask]>
>
><<You think that's bad? I was just in a Half Price Books today,
>and they had a 10" Folkways recording of children's songs by
>Woody Guthrie for $70.
>
>I'm not kidding. $70. I assume that was either an error or a
>price gun stutter, but that's what it said.
>
>I was really tempted to walk up to the counter and tell them
>about the Smithsonian/Folkways reissues. :-)>>
>
>It wasn't an error. I see Folkways LPs going for silly prices on e-bay and
>in the Vinyl Shack here in town all the time, especially if they're by
>well-known artists like Woody. The customers are mostly collectors, who are
>only secondarily interested in the music; they want the album as an Object.
>This one's pretty rare, actually, because it's a kids' album, and most of
>the owners of it did what I did when I was four -- played it incessantly on
>my little Voice of Music phonograph, handled it with a four-year-old's
>abandon, and generally trashed it. I didn't learn to take good care of LPs
>until I was about 14, put on a new Tom Paxton record, and realized with a
>flash of insight how much better it sounded than any of the records I had
>been abusing. A careful collector (and an audiophile) was born at that
>moment.
>
>I suppose I shouldn't laugh at people who want the Object, not with the
>house full of 78s and LPs and CDs as it is. Hell, I have a 3rd edition of
>the Radiotron Designer's Handbook around, and really like having it, even
>though the 4th edition is *much* more useful.I understand collector's mania, I really do. I have a bit of it myself --
I love owning things that are "history." I dream of owning old manuscripts,
for instance.It's still nuts. Way too new. :-) And mass-produced anyway.Oh well, I'll be digging around in my record collection to see
if I have anything else to inflict on poor unsuspecting fools
like that. :-)
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

On 2/20/04, Paul Garon wrote:>At 04:11 AM 2/20/2004, you wrote:
>>Many years ago I saw a single by Howlin' Wolf in a secondhand record
>>catalogue, priced at something like £35-00. The disc in question was
>>Smokestack Lightnin', with Going Down Slow on the B side. I've got that
>>single, but my copy has a typo, so that the B side reads Going Down South.
>>Bloody hell, thinks I. This is the equivalent of finding a penny black
>>with the perforations missing. I'm worth millions. I looked a bit farther
>>down the list. Pye must have sold a lot of Souths before they corrected
>>that mistake. My copy would have fetched a mere £12-00.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Impecunious Fred McCormick.
>
>
>For whatever reason (the aggregate whim of collectordom?) record and book
>collectors don't think highly of errors and they are not sought after as
>they are in the world of stamps.This is a little oversimplified in the case of book collectors. Take
two examples: The Gutenberg Bible and the First Folio of Shakespeare
(admittedly items even higher on the uniqueness scale than anything
we're talking about :-). Although both of these are formally single
editions, they were made at a time when hand-pressing was still the
normal way of doing things, and errors were spotted as sheets came
off the forme and corrected. However, the habit was to use the old,
erroneous sheets. Thus the various copies are not all the same
(indeed, it's said that no two surviving copies of the First Folio
are identical). A new "state" of the text, even if it is merely
an error, is considered especially desirable in such cases.Of course, if a copy is missing a sheet simply by error, that
doesn't do anything for the value. But then, funny stamps gain
value from equivalent press oddities, not from being torn or
the like. :-)--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

At 2:28 AM -0600 2/20/04, John Cowles wrote:>
> Thinking about Shep Ginandes sets one wondering about other early performers:
>for instance, whatever became of Ray Boguslav?
>Last I heard (but this is a good many years ago) Ray was in Newport
RI as a very successful graphic designer. I believe he designed the
Molson beer Sailing Ship logo.John Roberts

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Garon <[unmask]><<I won't say "Guilty as charged" as you've already declared yourself
guilty.
And it's certainly true that real collectors want the Object: 78rpm record,
10" Folkways LP, the Lomax Leadbelly book in dj, etc. But I don't think
it's true that such people are "secondarily interested in the music." This
is so widely believe that even my doctor often asks me, "Do you still sell
books to people who don't read them?" (Apparently his version of "How ya
doin'?)But nearly EVERY collector I know is a first-class MANIAC about the music
(or literature, or whatever the case may be), and it's the mania spillover
(to use the psychiatric term <g>) that constitutes the collecting
obsession.>>Well, could be. I guess what I was trying to say was that folks who mostly
want the music will buy the CD-R from Smithsonian/Folkways. But you're
right, it's always a dual obsession.Peace,
Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Garon <[unmask]><<For whatever reason (the aggregate whim of collectordom?) record and book
collectors don't think highly of errors and they are not sought after as
they are in the world of stamps.>>Variants, on the other hand, are hot. Pressings of "The Freewheeling Bob
Dylan" with a different song line-up, for example, are among the most
valuable records out there. Some of these also have errors on the labels or
jackets, but it's the different line-up that makes them desirable, not the
errors.Similarly, LPs of the Beatles' "Yesterday and Today" with the withdrawn
"butcher" cover are prized.I don't know of any comparable phenomena in the trad. music field, though,
although copies of the Harry Smith Anthology with the mystical cover are
more valued, I think, than the ones with the FSA cover. And alternate takes,
of course, are very highly prized. Just got done listening to the alternate
take of "Mbube" by Solomon Linda -- the song "Wimoweh" was based on. Thanks
to Pat Conte for issuing it on one of his "Secret Museum of Mankind" CDs.I think I'm rambling.Peace,
Paul

Hi!        Here is a short partial list containing what has appeared on
Ebay since I last posted. This will have to hold all of you books
fanatics while Don and I are away from the computer. My mother died on
Saturday. As a result, we will be spending this week in New England. The
next list will appear after we return and catch up on everything.        SONGSTERS        2226585821 - Fred. Shaw's Dime American Comic Songster, 1860?,
$5.99 (ends Feb-25-04 18:00:00 PST)        3705890602 - 2 books inc. J.W. Pepper's Dockstader Songster,
1881, $3.50 (ends Feb-28-04 03:35:15 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3588930434 - Border Ballads by Sharp, 4.50 GBP (ends Feb-25-04
07:33:14 PST)        3589007419 - Ulster Songs and Ballads of the town and the
country by Hayward, 1925, 10 GBP (ends Feb-25-04 13:03:48 PST)        3177116370 - THE TRADITIONAL GAMES OF ENGLAND, SCOTLAND AND
IRELAND by Gomme, 1984 reprint, 3.50 GBP (ends Feb-25-04 13:56:45 PST)        3589262676 - 3 books inc. SEA SONGS and SHANTIES by Whall (1963
reprint) & SONGS of AMERICAN SAILORMEN by Colcord (1964 reprint), $20
(ends Feb-26-04 14:32:20 PST)        3589319753 - The Popular Ballad by Gummere, 1959 Dover edition,
$5.95 (ends Feb-26-04 19:46:53 PST)        3589738139 -  The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads by
Bronson, volumes 1, 2 & 4, 1958-1972, $9.95 (ends Feb-26-04 21:03:52 PST)        3588776581 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 1888, 4.99 GBP (ends
Feb-27-04 11:57:01 PST)        3589465413 - Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire Ballads by
Wright, 1925, 3.99 GBP (ends Feb-27-04 14:57:23 PST)        3589004051 - Cecil Sharp by Strangeways, 1933, 6.61 GBP (ends
Feb-28-04 12:51:23 PST)        3589986984 - Ballads and Folk Songs of the Southwest by Moore,
1964, $24.95 (ends Feb-29-04 15:24:37 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Dolores, I'm sorry to hear your sad news.  Thank you for all your posting,
and I'm sure we can all hold on in your absence.In the meantime, I wonder if I can askl for some help? Does anyone know
where, if my bid is successful for the Bronson set (3 of 4 vols) I might
find a vol 3?Jon Bartlett (man_at_sea)----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolores Nichols" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: Ebay List - 02/22/04> Hi!
>
>         Here is a short partial list containing what has appeared on
> Ebay since I last posted. This will have to hold all of you books
> fanatics while Don and I are away from the computer. My mother died on
> Saturday. As a result, we will be spending this week in New England. The
> next list will appear after we return and catch up on everything.
>
>         SONGSTERS
>
>         2226585821 - Fred. Shaw's Dime American Comic Songster, 1860?,
> $5.99 (ends Feb-25-04 18:00:00 PST)
>
>         3705890602 - 2 books inc. J.W. Pepper's Dockstader Songster,
> 1881, $3.50 (ends Feb-28-04 03:35:15 PST)
>
>         SONGBOOKS, ETC.
>
>         3588930434 - Border Ballads by Sharp, 4.50 GBP (ends Feb-25-04
> 07:33:14 PST)
>
>         3589007419 - Ulster Songs and Ballads of the town and the
> country by Hayward, 1925, 10 GBP (ends Feb-25-04 13:03:48 PST)
>
>         3177116370 - THE TRADITIONAL GAMES OF ENGLAND, SCOTLAND AND
> IRELAND by Gomme, 1984 reprint, 3.50 GBP (ends Feb-25-04 13:56:45 PST)
>
>         3589262676 - 3 books inc. SEA SONGS and SHANTIES by Whall (1963
> reprint) & SONGS of AMERICAN SAILORMEN by Colcord (1964 reprint), $20
> (ends Feb-26-04 14:32:20 PST)
>
>         3589319753 - The Popular Ballad by Gummere, 1959 Dover edition,
> $5.95 (ends Feb-26-04 19:46:53 PST)
>
>         3589738139 -  The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads by
> Bronson, volumes 1, 2 & 4, 1958-1972, $9.95 (ends Feb-26-04 21:03:52 PST)
>
>         3588776581 - Border Ballads by Tomson, 1888, 4.99 GBP (ends
> Feb-27-04 11:57:01 PST)
>
>         3589465413 - Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire Ballads by
> Wright, 1925, 3.99 GBP (ends Feb-27-04 14:57:23 PST)
>
>         3589004051 - Cecil Sharp by Strangeways, 1933, 6.61 GBP (ends
> Feb-28-04 12:51:23 PST)
>
>         3589986984 - Ballads and Folk Songs of the Southwest by Moore,
> 1964, $24.95 (ends Feb-29-04 15:24:37 PST)
>
>                                 Happy Bidding!
>                                 Dolores
>
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>

I would like to ask the ballad list subscribers a question. What is the
origin of the well known Scottish ballad, "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean."Thank you,Victor Greene, [unmask]--
Victor R. Greene, Emeritus Professor
Department of History
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Milwaukee, WI 53201
Tel: 414-229-3965
Fax: 414-229-2435

I've always though it referred to *Bonnie* Prince Charlie (in exile "over
the sea"...
Am I wrong?
(wouldn't be the first time...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Greene" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 8:10 AM
Subject: Request> I would like to ask the ballad list subscribers a question. What is the
> origin of the well known Scottish ballad, "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean."
>
> Thank you,
>
> Victor Greene, [unmask]
>
> --
> Victor R. Greene, Emeritus Professor
> Department of History
> University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
> Milwaukee, WI 53201
> Tel: 414-229-3965
> Fax: 414-229-2435

----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Greene <[unmask]><<I would like to ask the ballad list subscribers a question. What is the
origin of the well known Scottish ballad, "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean.">>The earliest known printing, according to the Traditional Ballad Index, is
in Hills's "Student Songs", 1881. That may not be the original, but it seems
to have been the primary agent of infection.Peace,
Paul

On 2/23/04, RoyBerkeley wrote:>I've always though it referred to *Bonnie* Prince Charlie (in exile "over
>the sea"...
>Am I wrong?
>(wouldn't be the first time...)It's a logical answer; problem is, it doesn't appear the song
is that old. According to Fuld (who is usually pretty reliable
about these things), the earliest printing is from 1881 in
William H. Hills's _Student Songs_. No author is listed, so
it might be traditional and older than that date, but Fuld
observes that the best-known version is essentially that of
Hills. So if it isn't the original, it is probably the
"archetype" of the versions we all know.Spaeth (_A History of Popular Music in America_, p. 224)
considers the song a "fake" composed by Charles E. Pratt
(using the pseudonym H. J. Fulmer), but Fuld says the Fulmer
text in fact appears to be a messed-with version of that in
Hills.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

My Bonnie is definitely closely related to 'Send back my Barney to me'
which was popular in the 1870s in UK. Pearson of Manchester printed it and
The Glasgow Poet's Box printed a broadside version dated 1st Jan 1870.
1st line ' He is Gone and I'm now sad and lonely'
The Watersons certainly recorded a version of this.
SteveG

At 10:13 PM 2/22/04 -0500, Dolores wrote:
>....This will have to hold all of you books
>fanatics while Don and I are away from the computer. My mother died on
>Saturday. As a result, we will be spending this week in New England.Dolores,
My sincere condolences to you and your family.  My own mother has been
failing all this past year and I know it will be very hard to let go of
her, my dearest lifelong friend.
I hope your happy memories of her help to comfort you now.
Lisa

Thanks, Mr. Stamler.Victor GreenePaul Stamler wrote:>----- Original Message -----
>From: Victor Greene <[unmask]>
>
><<I would like to ask the ballad list subscribers a question. What is the
>origin of the well known Scottish ballad, "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean.">>
>
>The earliest known printing, according to the Traditional Ballad Index, is
>in Hills's "Student Songs", 1881. That may not be the original, but it seems
>to have been the primary agent of infection.
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
>--
Victor R. Greene, Emeritus Professor
Department of History
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Milwaukee, WI 53201
Tel: 414-229-3965
Fax: 414-229-2435