In some instances I would suggest a local or regional historical
society. While I have never given much consideration to the status of my
music oriented materials after my departure I have given very specific
instructions as to the division of my genealogical files. In addition I
have already spoken to the folks at each of those bodies to insure their
interest. [All this and I would like to think I'm good for at least
another 30 years.]A smaller local group may not be the ideal choice but it's a bit like
the archaeologist who thinks it better for a site to be paved over now
so that it can be excavated later.Personal Disclaimer: I helped to found a non-profit local history
organization in PA some 20 years ago and served, in one capacity or
another, on the board ever since. As such I do have a personal bias,David G. Engle wrote:>> On 1/9/04, Paul Stamler wrote:
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: edward cray <[unmask]>
>>>
>>> <<Writing as a member of the Academy -- though probably disdained as not
>>> academic enough since I am a tenured professor of (horrors!)
>>> journalism -- I
>>> would suggest that institutions of higher education did folklore no
>>> favors.
>>> I would argue that those talented amateurs riding around on bicycles did
>>> pretty well, thank you.  What academician amassed the collectanea of
>>> Gavin
>>> Greig and the Reverend Duncan?  Or the Lomaxes?  Or J.F. Campbell?
>>> Or Vance
>>> Randolph?  Or Zora Neale Hurston?  Or the WPA?  What a great
>>> heritage these
>>> men and women saved for us.>>
>>>
>>> Oh, I'm not arguing that. And when I suggested that we would have to
>>> return
>>> to relying on talented amateurs, folk song societies and parsons on
>>> bicycles, I wasn't being facetious; indeed, with the academy seemingly
>>> retiring from the field, it's vital that we keep supporting alternative
>>> institutions such as the AFC, the Smithsonian, local societies, and of
>>> course internet creations such as this listserv and the Ballad Index. It
>>> looks like that's where the action'll be in the next generation.
>>
>>
>> It's more complicated than that, though. Amateurs can collect; for the
>> most part, they *have* collected.
>>
>> But where do the collections go?
>>
>> I think of this myself: Since starting the Ballad Index, my
>> library has gone from a casual repository with a few high-quality
>> books (Child, Randolph, Eddy) to probably one of the dozen or so
>> best in Minnesota. That's not to say that it's anything close to
>> what it should be -- but nobody local with whom I have contact has
>> better. (That, incidentally, owes a lot do Dolores Nichols and her
>> eBay lists, though I've also been picking and choosing estate
>> collections for some years.) If I died tomorrow, it would simply
>> be dispersed -- probably sold piecemeal for about a fifth of
>> its real value. Why? Because I have no one younger to whom to
>> leave it. The Index itself is dependent on David Engle's presence
>> at Fresno.
>>
>> We need archives as well as collectors and maintainers. We don't
>> need departments of folklore, but we do need an "in" with the
>> universities. The dissolution of the programs worries me about
>> the future of those archives.
>
>
> That is indeed a great concern: especially since more than one
> collection at a university has been disbursed when an administrator
> saw no more use in it...
>
>
>> --
>> Bob Waltz
>> [unmask]
>>
>> "The one thing we learn from history --
>>    is that no one ever learns from history."
>
>
>
> --
>
> David G. Engle
>
> email:  [unmask]
> web:    http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore
>        http://www.csufresno.edu/forlang
>
>         The Traditional Ballad Index:
>         http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html
>
> ---
>

On 1/9/04, David G. Engle wrote:[ ... ]>>We need archives as well as collectors and maintainers. We don't
>>need departments of folklore, but we do need an "in" with the
>>universities. The dissolution of the programs worries me about
>>the future of those archives.
>
>That is indeed a great concern: especially since more than one
>collection at a university has been disbursed when an administrator
>saw no more use in it...That, in fact, was where some of my books were originally kept.
They still have the university marks -- as well as, in some
cases, the names of later owners.A collection without someone who wants to keep it is simply
not safe.
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Hi,
Just finishing off adding Motherwell's Minstrelsy into my indexes and
annoyingly can't identify a fragment in the appendix p xxiii. It sounds
familiar but I'm probably confusing it with The Overgate.
Anyway this is how it goesThe farmer's daughter gade to the market
Some white fish for to buy.
The young squire followed after her
As fast as he could hie,
Ricadoo, tunaway, ricadoo a doo a day
Raddle ricadoo tunaway.There is a tune but I don't know how to post that.
Any ideas gratefully accepted
SteveG

>Date:    Thu, 8 Jan 2004 21:30:05 -0800
>From:    edward cray <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: The Dwindling
>
>Good People:
>
>I realize I will be throwing gasoline on a smouldering fire, or, to change
>metaphors entirely, I will be howling bootless into the wind, but I would
>like to point out that folklore, aka "folkloristics," is, in fact, a
>contrived profession.  (Note that the site from which I plucked the
>original message that fostered this thread is entitled "Public Folklore"
>or "Publore," and the denizens refer to each other as "publorians.")
>
>What happened, lo' these many years, is that those interested in folklore
>sought to split it off from "mainstream" disciplines, particularly English
>and anthropology.I would just as soon see folklore studies isolated from the controversies
of "English."  Does "English" mean English literature, or the culture of
English-speaking peoples?  English departments are embracing both, causing
much clucking over the idea that "The Complete Works of Madonna" is a
legitimate subject of investigation -- which of course it is -- but those
who question its value as "literature" are equally correct.  The ambiguity
is complicated by the strategy of teachers to assign writing projects on
ephemeral popular culture in order to interest students in writing.Ballads, having demonstrated longevity, to say nothing of their very close
kinship to the oral epics which form the foundation of Western literature,
get some conservative respect-- so long as they're studied in written form
and not from the mouths of untutored singers.>Personally, I am NOT (note the emphasis) disheartened at what I have
>termed "The Dwindling."  Consider these points:
>
>1) The folk music revival burbles along, below the radar of the popular
>sales charts, but thriving nonetheless;The folk music revival burbles along with much assistance from public
subsidy, which benefits from the status of folklore as an independent
discipline.  Public sector folklore and academic folklore are quite
different things, but they depend on each other to exist.  We might hope
that traditional culture does not need artificial support, but like other
endangered species, its natural habitat is deeply stressed.>2) Folklore, like 16th C. heroic studies, or Yurok speech patterns prior
>to the coming of the Spanish, cannot be said to be vital in the
>contemporary world.Folk culture is what stands in opposition to the disintegration of culture
through discontinuity between generations, the marketing and promotion of
novelty, and the standardization of Everything.  Nothing could be more
vital than to understand and document both what's lost and what persists.
Should the infrastructure we depend on break down, how would we grow our
food having lost the lore of farming?  How would we fill the silence in our
minds without the technology of popular entertainment, and not go mad from
boredom?  I never get tired of "Down in the Willow Garden," do you?  But
how many times can you listen to "Psychokiller" without moving on to
something else?  And if this is of concern here in the studio of most of
the world's popular cultural products (and development policies, and
fertilizer-dependent seeds), how much more so in those parts of the world
whose folk knowledge is lost beyond recovery, having no archives of
documentation, no popular education and no sponsored promotion to spark any
kind of cultural "revival"?As we observe the rising tower of Babel known as "globalization," these are
important questions.Regards,Toby Koosman
Knoxville, Tennessee

Hi again,
The verse is very similar to the first verse of The Maskin Rung but this
is not a humorous ballad and the one in Motherwell is described so.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

>Hi,
>Just finishing off adding Motherwell's Minstrelsy into my indexes and
>annoyingly can't identify a fragment in the appendix p xxiii. It sounds
>familiar but I'm probably confusing it with The Overgate.
>Anyway this is how it goes
>
>The farmer's daughter gade to the market
>Some white fish for to buy.
>The young squire followed after her
>As fast as he could hie,
>Ricadoo, tunaway, ricadoo a doo a day
>Raddle ricadoo tunaway.
>
>There is a tune but I don't know how to post that.
>Any ideas gratefully accepted
>SteveGabc would be fine, I think.--
john garst    [unmask]

Thanks,John,
I should have known.
I thought it looked familiar. I can remember the likes of Isobel
Sutherland and Lizzie Higgins singing it at folk clubs now.
Steve.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Someone sent me a flier to the effect that I was invited to a Readin' and
Signin' of a book called _Ramblin' Man_.I guess I'd like a signed copy and a square of cheese (if that goes with
it) but even if I started inlining today, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make
it to Los Angeles by February 21, 2004.  Or probably 2005, either.Anyone know how I can get this otherwisely?-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:42:12 -0800, Norm Cohen wrote:>Sounds very discouraging.  What schools are left, besides North Carolina,
>Indiana and Texas?My sad but strong impression of North Carolina & the entire Triangle area
is that there's no interest in the sung song whatever.  Vast as the
recorded holdings at the university are, they are uncataloged and
difficult to access.  No open stacks.  The room is sparsely visited and
only has a few primitive listening devices.  The whole Triangle area seems
concerned with instrumental forms.  These are superb, public and extensive
but no balladry.There's a single small weekly ballad gettogether.  It seems excellent but
I ain't been there yet - I keep visiting Raleigh at the wrong end of the
week.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Abby:I imagine your local book store will have a copy.  If not, the book can be ordered from Baker and Taylor or Ingram, the two major book distributors.  Or you can undercut the independent bookseller and go to amazon.com and get it at discount.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>
Date: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:42 am
Subject: Ramblin' Man> Someone sent me a flier to the effect that I was invited to a Readin' and
> Signin' of a book called _Ramblin' Man_.
>
> I guess I'd like a signed copy and a square of cheese (if that goes with
> it) but even if I started inlining today, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make
> it to Los Angeles by February 21, 2004.  Or probably 2005, either.
>
> Anyone know how I can get this otherwisely?
>
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
>                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                        Boycott South Carolina!
>        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml
>

I've contactacted the publisher to see what kind of dicount CAMSCO can
get. No answer as yet.dick greenhausAbby Sale wrote:>Someone sent me a flier to the effect that I was invited to a Readin' and
>Signin' of a book called _Ramblin' Man_.
>
>I guess I'd like a signed copy and a square of cheese (if that goes with
>it) but even if I started inlining today, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't make
>it to Los Angeles by February 21, 2004.  Or probably 2005, either.
>
>Anyone know how I can get this otherwisely?
>
>
>-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
>                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                        Boycott South Carolina!
>        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml
>
>
>

At 03:11 PM 1/10/2004 -0500, Toby Koosman wrote:
>As we observe the rising tower of Babel known as "globalization," these are
>important questions.
>
>Regards,
>
>Toby Koosman
>Knoxville, TennesseeHear, hear.-- Bill McCarthy
(who grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee)

When I was young, at Bennington in the quiet fifties, there was a pair of
actual travelling minstrels, dressed in fairytale costumes, who came by
every couple of years and stayed with us in my parents' home.  Their names
were Seraffyn and Cherabim (sp?), and one of them played the first lute I
had ever seen.  I used to assume they walked the world, though this was
probably a naive supposition.  Your mention of Serrafyn Mork, or Morken,
reminded me of these two romantic adventurers, who sang ballads well into
the night, and charmed my soul powerfully.  I wonder if this was the same
Seraffyn.  Does anyone recall the pair I mention, or know if Seraffyn Mork
ever travelled or played with another artist with the odd pseudonym of
Cherabim?Sadie DamascusAt 1/3/2004, you wrote:
>Clifford-
>
>What a great project! As I came up with thoughts, however, my family
>pointed out that my taste might be too gory for delicate children's ears.
>F'rinstance I notice no one's suggested Jean Redpath as a source, yet her
>"Clerk Saunders" is one of my favorites. Gory, but magnificent. Another of
>my original learning sources- perhaps where I first, at age 16 or so,
>learned what a Child ballad was, is an obscure and probably unobtainable
>record by a man named Shep Ginandes. His "Matty Groves" and "Bolakins
>(Lamkin)" are wonderful- American sources all and quite good. Another
>record you may never find is Serrafyn Mork, singing "Little Sir William".
>Oh, and don't forget "Cordelia's Dad"- they do a super version of one of
>the incest ballads collected in New York, to mention only one. Maybe some
>of us who have these weird obscure things could copy and send them to you?
>
>Good luck on the project- I'll bet there are lots more suggestions coming.
>We will look forward to hearing more on it as it progresses.
>
>Mary Stafford
>Allston, MA

I remember them, too, from my fifties days at Columbia and in the Village.
I think the spelling, though, was Seraphim and Cherubim.  They were still
around in the early days of the Great Folk Scare of the 60's, IIRC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sadie Damascus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2004 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Ballad Recordings> When I was young, at Bennington in the quiet fifties, there was a pair of
> actual travelling minstrels, dressed in fairytale costumes, who came by
> every couple of years and stayed with us in my parents' home.  Their names
> were Seraffyn and Cherabim (sp?), and one of them played the first lute I
> had ever seen.  I used to assume they walked the world, though this was
> probably a naive supposition.  Your mention of Serrafyn Mork, or Morken,
> reminded me of these two romantic adventurers, who sang ballads well into
> the night, and charmed my soul powerfully.  I wonder if this was the same
> Seraffyn.  Does anyone recall the pair I mention, or know if Seraffyn Mork
> ever travelled or played with another artist with the odd pseudonym of
> Cherabim?
>
> Sadie Damascus
>
> At 1/3/2004, you wrote:
> >Clifford-
> >
> >What a great project! As I came up with thoughts, however, my family
> >pointed out that my taste might be too gory for delicate children's ears.
> >F'rinstance I notice no one's suggested Jean Redpath as a source, yet her
> >"Clerk Saunders" is one of my favorites. Gory, but magnificent. Another
of
> >my original learning sources- perhaps where I first, at age 16 or so,
> >learned what a Child ballad was, is an obscure and probably unobtainable
> >record by a man named Shep Ginandes. His "Matty Groves" and "Bolakins
> >(Lamkin)" are wonderful- American sources all and quite good. Another
> >record you may never find is Serrafyn Mork, singing "Little Sir William".
> >Oh, and don't forget "Cordelia's Dad"- they do a super version of one of
> >the incest ballads collected in New York, to mention only one. Maybe some
> >of us who have these weird obscure things could copy and send them to
you?
> >
> >Good luck on the project- I'll bet there are lots more suggestions
coming.
> >We will look forward to hearing more on it as it progresses.
> >
> >Mary Stafford
> >Allston, MA

Hi!        Here I am again! You can't keep me away! :-)
        Hope that you find something of interest here.        SONGSTERS        2372026273 - chas. k. harris Popular Songster, 1900?, $4.99 (ends
Jan-15-04 20:00:12 PST)        2217121941 - Merchant's Gargling Oil Songster, 1887, $5  (ends
Jan-16-04 21:19:42 PST)        3579583348 - The Songster's Museum, 1829, $9.99 w/reserve (ends
Jan-17-04 11:57:01 PST)        3652389538 - THE JOLLY MILLER SONGSTER, 1909, $4.98 (ends
Jan-17-04 20:13:03 PST)        2372591572 - Sheards Annual 1881 Of Christy Minstrel Songs And
Ballads, $19.99 (ends Jan-18-04 12:22:22 PST)        3653789681 - CLOWN'S SONGSTER, $9.99 (ends Jan-19-04 11:01:33 PST)        2588503935 - Metropolitan Songster, 1864, $5.99 (ends Jan-19-04
18:33:54 PST)        2372238572 - Cape Breton Songster, 1935, $24.95 (ends Jan-19-04
20:27:21 PST)        3579636232 - THE BEEHIVE SONGSTER, 1868, $36 w/reserve, (ends
Jan-20-04 22:00:00 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3578646089 - THE ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH POPULAR BALLADS by Child,
volume 1, 1965, $4 (ends Jan-14-04 11:43:45 PST)        3578749532 - The Folksongs of Virginia. A Checklist of the WPA
holdings, 1969, $10.49 (ends Jan-14-04 18:06:36 PST)        3578817717 - Cowboy and Western Songs by Fife, 1969, $11.97 (ends
Jan-14-04 23:38:07 PST)        2371869667 - 80 English Folk Songs by Sharp & Karpeles, 1983
edition, 0.99 GBP (ends Jan-15-04 12:15:18 PST)        3579247694 - The Book of Navy Songs, 1943, $4 (ends Jan-15-04
18:59:35 PST)        3579256863 - Negro Spirituals Folk Songs of the South by Deet,
1921, $9.99 (ends Jan-15-04 19:30:49 PST)        3579340947 - One Hundred English Folksongs by Sharp, 1975 edition,
$5.50 (ends Jan-16-04 18:15:40 PST)        3579444085 - Everyman's Book Of English Country Songs by Palmer,
1979, $9.75 (ends Jan-16-04 18:45:33 PST)        3578608255 - London Bridge and other Old Singing Games by
Thornhill, 1911, 0.80 GBP (ends Jan-17-04 09:21:23 PST)        3578740696 - Ancient Scots Ballads with The Traditional Airs to
Which They Were Want to be Sung by Eyre-Todd, 40 GBP (ends Jan-17-04
17:39:56 PST)        3578827970 - The Balladists by Geddie, 1896, 40 GBP (ends
Jan-18-04 00:37:44 PST)        3578833413 - Poetry and Jacobite Politics in Eighteenth-Century
Britain and Ireland by Pittock, 1994, 55 GBP (ends Jan-18-04 01:10:42 PST)        3578906768 - Ballads From The Pubs Of Ireland by Healy, volume 1,
1996 edition, 3 GBP (ends Jan-18-04 06:08:26 PST)        2587141711 - Computing in Musicology, 1995-6, 6 GBP (ends
Jan-18-04 06:14:09 PST)        2372508301 - 3 songbooks (2 by Sizemore & 1 by Harper), 1933-1943,
$1.99 (ends Jan-18-04 07:20:10 PST)        3579762795 - 3 songbooks, 1921-1947, $9.99 (ends Jan-18-04
07:39:12 PST)        3578965629 - What a Lovely War British Soldiers' Songs from the
Boer War to the Present Day by Palmer, 1990, 4.99 GBP (ends Jan-18-04
08:54:25 PST)        2371812826 - Kerr's Cornkisters (Bothy Ballads), 4.99 GBP (ends
Jan-18-04 09:38:53 PST)        3579850536 - Songs & Southern Breezes: Country Folk and Country
Ways by Copper, 1973, $9 (ends Jan-18-04 11:18:34 PST)        3579878703 - The Rymes of Robyn Hood by Holt, 1997, $1.40 (ends
Jan-18-04 12:24:29 PST)        2371953532 - BRITISH MINSTRELSIE, 6 volumes, 1894-1901, 39.99 GBP
(ends Jan-18-04 15:58:12 PST)        3579211947 - American Folksongs of Protest by Greenway, 1960,
$13.95 (ends Jan-18-04 16:37:13 PST)        3579162354 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, 4 volumes, 1980 reprint,
$56 (ends Jan-18-04 18:30:00 PST)        3580076787 - Negro Folk Music USA by Courlander, 1963, $5 (ends
Jan-19-04 09:15:55 PST)        3266785347 - The Universal Irish Song Book by Kennedy, 1904,
$1.95 (ends Jan-19-04 10:33:50 PST)        2372817280 - Gems of Scottish Song, 1866, $8 (ends Jan-19-04
10:46:07 PST)        3579432033 - BLOODY VERSICLES: THE RHYMES OF CRIME by Goodman,
1993, $6 (ends Jan-19-04 17:27:18 PST)        3580191220 - The Story of Ballads, Blues and The Big Beat by
Myrus, 1966, $6.99 (ends Jan-19-04 18:15:51 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        2586910775 - UNCLE DAVE MACON AT HOME, LP, recorded 1950, issued
1970, Tennessee Folklore Society, $15.50 (ends Jan-14-04 17:46:32 PST)        2587538918 - ABOARD THE CUTTY SARK by Hugill, LP, 1979, $9.99
(ends Jan-15-04 16:39:10 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

----- Original Message -----
From: Dolores Nichols <[unmask]><<        2586910775 - UNCLE DAVE MACON AT HOME, LP, recorded 1950, issued
1970, Tennessee Folklore Society, $15.50 (ends Jan-14-04 17:46:32 PST)>>Y'all should know that this was reissued on CD last year. This is irrelevant
if you're after the LP as a collector; however, if you just want to hear the
music, the CD will undoubtedly be cheaper than the final price of the LP.Peace,
Paul

Hi, another request.
The Worcester Garland is cited as an ancestor to the scarce ballad 'The
Brisk Young Lively Lad / The London or Dublin Heiress. The only oral
versions I know of were found in S.England, Surrey (JFSS 1900)& Sussex
(Copper family), & N.E. Scotland (Greig-Duncan 3 versions). These are all
descendants of the 17th century ballad, The Valiant Virgin, Rox 7 546.Anyone know where I can reasonably quickly access a copy of The Worcester
Garland? It could be just an 18th century straight reprint of The Valiant
Virgin in which case I don't need it.Thanks, SteveG

> 3578833413 - Poetry and Jacobite Politics in Eighteenth-Century
> Britain and Ireland by Pittock, 1994, 55 GBP55 quid for a 10-year-old book?> 2371812826 - Kerr's Cornkisters (Bothy Ballads), 4.99 GBPStill in print, for not much more money.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro, Embro".
---> off-list mail to "j-c" rather than "ballad-l" at this site, please. <---

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

> > 3578833413 - Poetry and Jacobite Politics in Eighteenth-Century
> > Britain and Ireland by Pittock, 1994, 55 GBP
>
> 55 quid for a 10-year-old book?Unfortunately Jack, age does not have as much influence as demand (think
Harry Potter) but, whilst it is a lot less expensive elsewhere on the web
around £25.00 - but can go higher. But I do have Volume 2 of Herd (1776) so
it is a principle I might adopt!!Regards,Dave

Several people wrote remembering Serrafyn Mork. Here's what I know. Indeed he originally performed with his wife, as Serrafyn and Cherubim. They were pretty well known in the New England area, used to do an annual Christmas thing at the Inn at Sturbridge (not the one connected to the Village), and general performances elsewhere. I probably met Serrafyn not long after he and his wife split up- he was performing at the time on a split bill with Billy Faier at George Wein/Manny Greenhill's "Ballad Room". Performers from the Ballad Room often came over to the Golden Vanity either before or between their performances there, and did a short bit on stage, usually free. Somewhere among a stack of 8" reel-to-reel tapes I have from the Vanity, circa 1959-1960 is an after-hours tape with Billy, Serrafyn and others talking and singing. I hope to locate it and get it onto CD. Serrafyn routinely traveled in his costume- he was really into the concept of being a minstrel- and in fact died, I'm sorry to say I don't remember exactly when, in a car crash somewhere in the south central states, in costume. He was a dear man, had a wonderful over-the-top performing style and voice. He did do one recording at least, and again, somewhere I have a cassette tape of it.Mary Stafford
Allston, MA

Lisa Ornstein of the Archives Acadiennes in Fort Kent is trying to find out more about this ballad, which she collected from an Irish singer from Quebec.  If the ballad or the events ring a bell with anyone, I'd be glad to hear from you.  We haven't
checked newspapers yet but will be doing so.Cheers
Jamie MoreiraSinger's title: "Downeast in Thomaston"Come listen you all, both great and small, to my melancholy tale
Concerning a young highway man who is now confined to jail
Convicted of highway robbery September, seventy-one
And for want of bail he will lodge in jail down east in ThomastonMy name is Mike O'Leary and in Brooklyn I was born
Brought up by honest parents and their love for me it was shown
They gave me an education and they taught me God to fear
But by going with bad company I began my wild careerOh, I first began by drinking rum and then by playing cards
In all the rackets that I took part, I would not leave my pards
I soon got hardened into crime, and scores of deeds I have done
But to pay for all I'm now sent off for life to Thomaston.My career of crimes from day to day kept growing worse and worse
Not contented with the stakes I made, I robbed a man of his purse
Three houses then in order came and likewise a jewelry store
And a passenger on a pullman car and a Down East savings bankThe detectives soon got on my trail, they were bound to seal my fate
The proceeds of my robbery I sent to New York state
When I was about to follow them and bid adieu to Maine
Before I reached New Hampshire I was captured on the trainI was then brought back to Portland and landed up in jail
Held over to a higher court on fifteen thousand bail
To appear upon the September terms, and friends I had not one
And for want of bail I lodged in jail down east in ThomastonI was then brought up before Judge Goderick, a man with a heart like stone
I knew no mercy I would get, so then I asked for none
The jury found me guilty and the judge did me condemn:
"For robbing on the state's highway you must go to Thomaston"Warden White was sent for, he escorted me to the train
I bid adieu to liberty which I never would see again
They crowd they all gathered round the car, and the tears from my eyes they did run
When I heard them say: " There's Mike O'Leary, going to Thomaston"Here's adieu to all outside and the girl that I loved also
The way that I have treated her it 'll break her heart I know
I ask of God to forgive me for the crimes that I have done
It's a convict now I'll end my days down east in Thomaston

Jamie:This looks to me to be a rewrite of, or inspired by "The Boston Burglar," with which is shares lines, themes.See Cox, _Folk-Songs of the South,_ pp. 296 ff.Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: James Moreira <[unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2004 9:00 am
Subject: A convict's lament from Maine> Lisa Ornstein of the Archives Acadiennes in Fort Kent is trying to find
> out more about this ballad, which she collected from an Irish singer from
> Quebec.  If the ballad or the events ring a bell with anyone, I'd be glad
> to hear from you.  We haven't
> checked newspapers yet but will be doing so.
>
> Cheers
> Jamie Moreira
>
> Singer's title: "Downeast in Thomaston"
>
> Come listen you all, both great and small, to my melancholy tale
> Concerning a young highway man who is now confined to jail
> Convicted of highway robbery September, seventy-one
> And for want of bail he will lodge in jail down east in Thomaston
>
> My name is Mike O'Leary and in Brooklyn I was born
> Brought up by honest parents and their love for me it was shown
> They gave me an education and they taught me God to fear
> But by going with bad company I began my wild career
>
> Oh, I first began by drinking rum and then by playing cards
> In all the rackets that I took part, I would not leave my pards
> I soon got hardened into crime, and scores of deeds I have done
> But to pay for all I'm now sent off for life to Thomaston.
>
> My career of crimes from day to day kept growing worse and worse
> Not contented with the stakes I made, I robbed a man of his purse
> Three houses then in order came and likewise a jewelry store
> And a passenger on a pullman car and a Down East savings bank
>
> The detectives soon got on my trail, they were bound to seal my fate
> The proceeds of my robbery I sent to New York state
> When I was about to follow them and bid adieu to Maine
> Before I reached New Hampshire I was captured on the train
>
> I was then brought back to Portland and landed up in jail
> Held over to a higher court on fifteen thousand bail
> To appear upon the September terms, and friends I had not one
> And for want of bail I lodged in jail down east in Thomaston
>
> I was then brought up before Judge Goderick, a man with a heart like stone
> I knew no mercy I would get, so then I asked for none
> The jury found me guilty and the judge did me condemn:
> "For robbing on the state's highway you must go to Thomaston"
>
> Warden White was sent for, he escorted me to the train
> I bid adieu to liberty which I never would see again
> They crowd they all gathered round the car, and the tears from my eyes
> they did run
> When I heard them say: " There's Mike O'Leary, going to Thomaston"
>
> Here's adieu to all outside and the girl that I loved also
> The way that I have treated her it 'll break her heart I know
> I ask of God to forgive me for the crimes that I have done
> It's a convict now I'll end my days down east in Thomaston
>

Jim Plummer, friend nand folksinger, is looking for the SPANISH words to this well-known melody. He remembers seeing a set of these lyrics on an LP by William Clauson back in the sixties. If anyone out there can help him, his email address is
<<[unmask]>>.Incidental information. That melody was so popular back then that I heard it referred to as "Harvard Square Forever!" Even further back, Vicente Gomez used it as the theme music for the French film "Forbidden Games," and I once heard Miriam Makeba
sing it in either English or French (can't be sure) as "FG." But Jim knows all this. What he's looking for is Clauson's SPANISH words. I hope someone can help him.Sandy Ives

Folks:I skimmed the new Postscript catalogue and noticed that company is selling the two volumes of the Scottish Text Society's printing of _Andrew Crawfurd's Collection of Ballads and Songs,_ ed. by Emily Lyle, for 19.99 pounds each.This is an important, and little known, Scots ballad collection dating from the first decades of the 19th C.I hasten to add that I have no financial interest in Postscript or the Scottish Text Society.Ed

Postscript is at www.psbooks.co.ukThe telephone number is 020 8767 7421.Ed

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Just to point out-- the pound is now worth about $1.82 (US). Imports are
expensive (sigh)dick greenhausedward cray wrote:>Folks:
>
>I skimmed the new Postscript catalogue and noticed that company is selling the two volumes of the Scottish Text Society's printing of _Andrew Crawfurd's Collection of Ballads and Songs,_ ed. by Emily Lyle, for 19.99 pounds each.
>
>This is an important, and little known, Scots ballad collection dating from the first decades of the 19th C.
>
>I hasten to add that I have no financial interest in Postscript or the Scottish Text Society.
>
>Ed
>
>
>

Just to point out-- the pound is now worth about $1.82 (US). Imports are
expensive (sigh)dick greenhausedward cray wrote:> Folks:
>
> I skimmed the new Postscript catalogue and noticed that company is
> selling the two volumes of the Scottish Text Society's printing of
> _Andrew Crawfurd's Collection of Ballads and Songs,_ ed. by Emily
> Lyle, for 19.99 pounds each.
>
> This is an important, and little known, Scots ballad collection dating
> from the first decades of the 19th C.
>
> I hasten to add that I have no financial interest in Postscript or the
> Scottish Text Society.
>
> Ed
>
>
>

John:Can I waffle?I sense that the tenor and the language of the ballad as quoted is sufficiently vague and, at the same time, sufficiently concrete as to befuddle the best of us.What?  You expected precise answers in ballad studies?Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: [unmask]
Date: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: A convict's lament from Maine> In a message dated 1/15/2004 8:39:29 PM GMT Standard Time, [unmask]
> writes:
>
> > This looks to me to be a rewrite of, or inspired by "The Boston Burglar,"
> > with which is shares lines, themes.
> >
>
> That occurred to me. It's well made. Is it more recent than 1871?
>
> John Moulden
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

> Just to point out-- the pound is now worth about $1.82 (US). Imports are
> expensive (sigh)No they aren't!!  :-)Dave

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Ed,
It's probably just a typing error, but when I bought the absolutely
brilliant pair of Lyle's a couple of months back they were £19.99 the
pair, not each. She sure is a fantastic researcher. Certainly enhanced my
indexes.
SteveG

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Steve:Perhaps it IS a typing error, but it is postscript's, not mine.While they are a remainder house, perhaps this time they have overpriced the books.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2004 4:55 am
Subject: Re: Important Books Available> Ed,
> It's probably just a typing error, but when I bought the absolutely
> brilliant pair of Lyle's a couple of months back they were £19.99 the
> pair, not each. She sure is a fantastic researcher. Certainly enhanced my
> indexes.
> SteveG
>

John:You don't have to be so quick to agree.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: [unmask]
Date: Friday, January 16, 2004 3:37 am
Subject: Re: A convict's lament from Maine> In a message dated 1/16/2004 5:10:40 AM GMT Standard Time, [unmask]
> writes:
>
> > Can I waffle?
> >
>
> I know you can! As a former schoolmaster and still a practising pedant I will
> readily grant that you may!
>
> So can I!
>
> Best wishes.
>
> John
>

Jim Plummer, friend and folksinger, is looking for the SPANISH words to this well-known melody. He remembers seeing these lyrics on an LP by William Clauson back in the sixties. If anyone out there can help Jim, his email address is
[unmask]  Or you can just post them here on ballad-l.Incidental information: That melody was so popular back then that I even heard it called "Harvard Square Forever." Even further back, Vicente Gomez used it as the theme music for the French film, "Forbidden Games," and I swear I heard Miriam Makeba
sing it in concert (in English? French? Not sure) as "FG".
B ut Jim knows all this. What he's looking  for is Clauson's SPANISH words (or a reasonable facsimile).This message is a repeat of one I put out yesterday that seems to have disappeared. Sorry, but I'm new to this game.Sandy Ives

Assuming that this is a traditional song, as a Hispanist I can possibly help. However, I need a clue as to what the "well-known melody" is! I'm afraid your references of "Harvard Square Forever" and "Forbidden Games" mean nothing to me. Do you have the notation anywhere?
Cheers
Simon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandy Ives" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 16 January 2004 16:52
Subject: "Romance"> Jim Plummer, friend and folksinger, is looking for the SPANISH words to this well-known melody. He remembers seeing these lyrics on an LP by William Clauson back in the sixties. If anyone out there can help Jim, his email address is
> [unmask]  Or you can just post them here on ballad-l.
>
> Incidental information: That melody was so popular back then that I even heard it called "Harvard Square Forever." Even further back, Vicente Gomez used it as the theme music for the French film, "Forbidden Games," and I swear I heard Miriam Makeba
> sing it in concert (in English? French? Not sure) as "FG".
> B ut Jim knows all this. What he's looking  for is Clauson's SPANISH words (or a reasonable facsimile).
>
> This message is a repeat of one I put out yesterday that seems to have disappeared. Sorry, but I'm new to this game.
>
> Sandy Ives

I agree, the books are easily worth that much each, both for the ballads
they contain and for Emily Lyle's immaculate research. They are currently
on sale in a York bookshop for £30 the pair and I nearly bought them. I
just found out in time about the PS deal which is very likely where the
York shop got its copies from.
 At the risk of insulting my fellow ballad researchers this side of the
pond, I must state that it continues to gall me that the best research is
still coming from your side of the pond with the likes of Renwick and
Lyle. Hopefully the renewed interest in universities in ballads this side
will eventually rectify this.
SteveG

Apologies, The proper title of the garland is 'Worcestershire Garland' and
thanks to Malcolm Douglas I'm now on the trail of a copy at Glasgow
University.
SteveG

Hi folks:Sorry for the cross-posting, but this is an odd enough request that I wanted
to maximize my possibilities.A student of Bob Blackman told him during class that she had once heard a
work song sung by postal workers as they sorted mail. Not sure where this
was -- Africa? Europe?Have any of you heard, or heard of, such a song, and are there any
recordings of such a thing? It sounds like the sort of song Alan Lomax would
have detoured a hundred miles to record.Peace,
Paul

That song is the first example on the set of CDs that go with Jeff
Titon's book, Worlds of Music.  It is indeed a wonderful example of
'accidental music,' --or maybe one should call it 'incidental music.'Anne Dhu McLucas
-------------------
> Hi folks:
>
> Sorry for the cross-posting, but this is an odd enough request that
I wanted
> to maximize my possibilities.
>
> A student of Bob Blackman told him during class that she had once
heard a
> work song sung by postal workers as they sorted mail. Not sure
where this
> was -- Africa? Europe?
>
> Have any of you heard, or heard of, such a song, and are there any
> recordings of such a thing? It sounds like the sort of song Alan
Lomax would
> have detoured a hundred miles to record.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
Anne Dhu McLucas, Ph.D.
Professor of Music
University of Oregon

Can we please see a bit of this?  We have a retired postie who
does recitations at our sessions who would love to know more.
Thanks  --  Tom> From: Anne Dhu McLucas
<[unmask]>
> Date: 2004/01/17 Sat PM 02:38:06 CST
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Re: Postal shanty?
>
> That song is the first example on the set of CDs that go with Jeff
> Titon's book, Worlds of Music.  It is indeed a wonderful example
of
> 'accidental music,' --or maybe one should call it 'incidental
music.'
>
> Anne Dhu McLucas
> -
>
> ------------------
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > Sorry for the cross-posting, but this is an odd enough request
that
> I wanted
> > to maximize my possibilities.
> >
> > A student of Bob Blackman told him during class that she had
once
> heard a
> > work song sung by postal workers as they sorted mail. Not sure
> where this
> > was -- Africa? Europe?
> >
> > Have any of you heard, or heard of, such a song, and are there
any
> > recordings of such a thing? It sounds like the sort of song Alan
> Lomax would
> > have detoured a hundred miles to record.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Paul
> >
> Anne Dhu McLucas, Ph.D.
> Professor of Music
> University of Oregon
>Tom Hall  --  Master Wordworker
and Intellectual Handyman

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:06:43 -0500, Cohen, Ronald wrote:>Most sad. Kenny Goldstein is certainly whirrling in his grave. He feared this would happen after his retirement. ron cohen
>
Or Mac Leach.  He spent, what? 30 years creating the Department and
painfully extracting it from the English Dept.  I don't really have the
timing right but it was totally resubsumed into English on Roger Abrahams'
retirement.  I think it was a separate "curriculum" for a while under him
but then died.Maybe Ed's right and it can logically be considered an aspect of a
culture's Literature.  Or maybe it's part of a national conspiracy of
English Departments to grap as many resources as they can before Reading
stops altogether.>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:   Forum for ballad scholars on behalf of Ed Cray
>Sent:   Thu 1/8/2004 4:29 PM
>To:     [unmask]
>Cc:
>Subject:        The Dwindling
>
>Folks:
>
>I received this moments ago.  First UCLA, now Penn.  It would appear that
>folklore studies are shriveling.  Certainly degree-granting programs are.
>
>Ed
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Folklorists and Advocates:
>
>I am forwarding to you the letter sent by Dan Ben-Amos concerning Penn's
>administrational decision to suspend admission of new folklore students
>for the
>academic year of 2004-2005 which, as Professor Ben-Amos writes, " means a
>terminal blow to the Graduate Program of Folklore and Folklife at the
>University of Pennsylvania."-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Dear All--I'm very glad this e-mail got through at last!--each time I've tried to
post to your list, the mail has bounced, even though I regularly get
your postings.   Unfortunately, I don't have the technology to share
this on-line--there are no words. It is a wonderful, jaunty tune, based
on the hymn "Bompata" by the Gahanaian composer W.J. Akyeampong,
whistled in harmony by a couple of postal workers as they stamp in a
complex, rhythm.Anne Dhu McLucasOn Sunday, January 18, 2004, at 05:09 PM, Tom Hall wrote:> Can we please see a bit of this?  We have a retired postie who
> does recitations at our sessions who would love to know more.
> Thanks  --  Tom
>
>> From: Anne Dhu McLucas
> <[unmask]>
>> Date: 2004/01/17 Sat PM 02:38:06 CST
>> To: [unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Postal shanty?
>>
>> That song is the first example on the set of CDs that go with Jeff
>> Titon's book, Worlds of Music.  It is indeed a wonderful example
> of
>> 'accidental music,' --or maybe one should call it 'incidental
> music.'
>>
>> Anne Dhu McLucas
>> -
>>
>> ------------------
>>> Hi folks:
>>>
>>> Sorry for the cross-posting, but this is an odd enough request
> that
>> I wanted
>>> to maximize my possibilities.
>>>
>>> A student of Bob Blackman told him during class that she had
> once
>> heard a
>>> work song sung by postal workers as they sorted mail. Not sure
>> where this
>>> was -- Africa? Europe?
>>>
>>> Have any of you heard, or heard of, such a song, and are there
> any
>>> recordings of such a thing? It sounds like the sort of song Alan
>> Lomax would
>>> have detoured a hundred miles to record.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Paul
>>>
>> Anne Dhu McLucas, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Music
>> University of Oregon
>>
>
> Tom Hall  --  Master Wordworker
> and Intellectual Handyman

At 05:05 AM 1/17/2004 -0500, Steve Gardham wrote:
>  the best research is
>still coming from your side of the pond with the likes of Renwick and
>Lyle.Steve,Renwick is at the University of Texas in Austen, Lyle at the School of
Scottish Studies in Edinburgh.  Which sides of the pond are you talking
about, the northern and southern?:-)Bill McC

I know she's at SSS but isn't she Canadian?
SteveG

Certainly her Crawfurd's collection is dedicated to "Canadian kin".Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gardham" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Important Books Available> I know she's at SSS but isn't she Canadian?
> SteveG
>

Hi!        Here is the songster part of the list. The remainder will follow
later today.        SONGSTERS        3267214586 - Rheumatism Peddler Songster, 1872, $9.99 (ends
Jan-21-04 12:21:24 PST)        2218321302 - Christy's Ram's Horn Nigga Songster, $100 (ends
Jan-22-04 07:00:00 PST)        2218007912 - Civil War Songster, 186?, $25 (ends Jan-23-04
17:44:03 PST)        2218673982 - Sun Bros. The World's Progressive Shows Songster,
$5.95 (ends Jan-23-04 18:08:31 PST)        3655105562 - True Blue Republican Campaign Songs for 1892, $9.99
(ends Jan-24-04 10:15:19 PST)        3581198372 - Tyneside Songster & Curiosities of Northumberland,
1970 reprints, 0.99 GBP (ends Jan-24-04 11:50:25 PST)        2374058944 - My Old New Hampshire Home Songster, 1900?, $9.95
(ends Jan-24-04 17:24:31 PST)        2219011109 - Harrigan and Hart's Hildebrand Montrose Songster,
1875, $9.99 (ends Jan-25-04 09:06:17 PST)        3267479339 - CHRISTY'S RAM'S HORN NIGGA SONGSTER, 1850, $99.99
(ends Jan-25-04 17:30:37 PST)        3581762215 - Zion Songster, 1834, $19.99 (ends Jan-26-04 10:41:56
PST)        3581443862 - Uncle True Songster, pre-1850, $25 (ends Jan-28-04
09:50:54 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

In connection with the publication of Nolan Porterfield, ed., EXPLORING ROOTS MUSIC: TWENTY YEARS OF THE JEMF QUARTERLY (Scarecrow Press, 2004), I am looking for current addresses for the following individuals who have essays in the book:Gene WigginsFabrizio SalmoniLinda PainterWilliam Henry KoonGeorge BiggarDonald Lee NelsonJohn Solomon OttoAugustus M. BurnsBernard HagertyRobert ColtmanAny help will be much appreciated. Ronald Cohen
[unmask]

Emily isn't Canadian, although the Director of the School's Archive is Canadian Margaret Mackay.  I think Emily is from Scotland.>>> [unmask] 01/19/04 15:56 PM >>>
Certainly her Crawfurd's collection is dedicated to "Canadian kin".Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gardham" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: Important Books Available> I know she's at SSS but isn't she Canadian?
> SteveG
>

At 03:10 PM 11/17/03 +0000, you wrote:
>My Dictionary of Superstitions was published on 31st October, and by 2nd
>November Amazon were listing a secondhand copy!
>Steve RoudMaybe the person who bought it thought it might be bad luck to keep it in
their house?
-Lisa

Hi!        As promised, here is the remainder of this week's list. :-)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3579867209 - Songs and Ballads of Clydesdale by Nimmo, 1882, 14.99
GBP (ends Jan-21-04 11:56:13 PST)        3580478815 - Songs and Ballads of Clydesdale by Nimmo, 1882, 9.99
GBP (ends Jan-21-04 13:09:00 PST)        3580715097 - The Ballad and Oral Literature by Harris, 1991, $8
(ends Jan-22-04 09:26:50 PST)        2373580421 - 2 song books (THE PRAIRIE RAMBLERS AND PATSY MONTANA'S
30 COLLECTION OF SONGS and Mountain Ballads Old Time Songs by Kincaid),
1930's, $4.99 (ends Jan-22-04 15:10:55 PST)        3580854758 - A Superlative Selection of American Nineteenth-Century
Historical and Advertising Broadsides, etc., 1980, $19.99 (ends
Jan-22-04 18:47:26 PST)        3580749376 - AMERICAN MURDER BALLADS by Burt, 1964, $30 (ends
Jan-22-04 19:30:00 PST)        3580913120 - Mains Again By Grieg, 1890?, 2.99 GBP (ends Jan-23-04
05:57:10 PST)        3580939303 - SONGS OF THE OLD TURF FIRE, 1966, $9 (ends Jan-23-04
08:54:34 PST)        3581209243 - MINSTRELSY: ANCIENT AND MODERN by Motherwell, 1827,
9.99 GBP (ends Jan-24-04 12:27:35 PST)        3267829888 - DEATH IN THE DARK. A COLLECTION OF FACTUAL BALLADS OF
AMERICAN MINE DISASTERS by Adams, 1941, $24.95 (ends Jan-24-04 12:47:20 PST)        3581238348 - The Globe Song Folio, 1903, $9.95 (ends Jan-24-04
14:30:08 PST)        2374044362 - Book of English Ballads, 1891, $9.99 (ends Jan-24-04
16:07:20 PST)        3581288726 - SOUTHERN FOLK BALLADS by McNeil, 1987, $9.95 (ends
Jan-24-04 19:15:31 PST)        3581304695 - Songs of the Cowboys by Thorp, 2000 edition, $4.99
(ends Jan-24-04 21:05:21 PST)        3581444196 - Songs and Ballads, 1846, $9.99 (ends Jan-25-04
09:51:41 PST)        TRADITIONAL BRITISH BALLADS by Whiting, 1955, $5 (ends Jan-25-04
19:09:07 PST)        2374474217 - 7 song books of mountain & country songs, 1930's,
$9.99 (ends Jan-26-04 08:39:13 PST)        2374482400 - Mountain Ballads by Kincaid, 1932, $4.99 (ends
Jan-26-04 09:16:38 PST)        2374505638 - FIFTY TRADITIONAL SCOTTISH NURSERY RHYMES by Moffatt,
1933, 4.50 GBP (ends Jan-26-04 10:50:03 PST)        3581839019 - One Hundred English Folksongs by Sharp, 1975 Dover
edition, $5 (ends Jan-26-04 17:00:00 PST)        3581859652 - Radio Rubes Song Book, 1933, $4 (ends Jan-26-04
17:16:40 PST)        3581550174 - 2 books (Negro Folk Music, U.S.A by Courlander, 1992
reprint and Slave Songs of the United States by Allen, Ware & Garrison,
1995 reprint) $5.95 (ends Jan-26-04 18:30:00 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        2589614420 - Angola Prison Spirituals, LP, 1950?, Louisiana
Folklore Society, $5 (ends Jan-24-04 12:45:29 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Emily Lyle's father was from Kilbarchan, a weaving village near Paisley
where my father was also born. The home of course of piper Habby Simpson,
for whom the Standard Habby verse form favoured by Burns is named.
Cuthbert Lyle edited two booklets of Poems and Ballads of Kilbarchan. Some
are noted as 'ballads as chanted in Old Kilbarchan', and a few as collected
from Agnes Lyle and others from Agnes Laird in 1825. Scholars among this
list members will I assume know the sources he was using. Most of the poems
are of course from named poets.
But you can see that Emily Lyle, who retired from her work with the SSS
having at last completed Greig-Duncan but of course keeps a connection with
the place and lives in Edinburgh, is not only Scots to the backbone, but
has the word ballad written through that backbone like a stick of rock.EwanEwan McVicar,
84 High Street
Linlithgow,
West Lothian
Scotland
EH49 7AQtel 01506 847935

At 10:11 AM 11/17/2003, you wrote:
>>My Dictionary of Superstitions was published on 31st October, and by 2nd
>>November Amazon were listing a secondhand copy!
>>Steve RoudProbably someone was sent a pre-pub "review copy" and took it to their used
book store down the street along with the rest of their review copies, and
that particular dealer keeps his stock listed on Amazon.I remember when our WOMAN WITH GUITAR came out from Da Capo. We are good
friends with Brad who owns Powell's of Chicago, and he seemed to get stacks
of Da Capo stuff that was not in the remainder catalogs. We told him he was
dead meat if he had WOMAN WITH GUITAR before the retail stores did!
(Luckily for us all, he didn't.) He did get three used or hurt copies from
somewhere about a month later, though.Paul GaronPaul and Beth Garon
Beasley Books (ABAA)
1533 W. Oakdale
Chicago, IL 60657
(773) 472-4528
(773) 472-7857 FAX
[unmask]

At 08:22 PM 1/19/2004 +0000, Dave Eyre wrote:
>Certainly her Crawfurd's collection is dedicated to "Canadian kin".
>
>
>
> > I know she's at SSS but isn't she Canadian?
> > SteveG
> >Those are the today-living Canadian kin of the singers that Andrew Crawfurd
collected from.  Some of the supplementary data that Lyle gathered  to
support the publication of Crawfurd's manuscript came from Canadian lineal
and collateral descendants of the singers whose songs are in the
manuscript.  The publication is quite appropriately dedicated to them.Poor Emily! does she know we're talking about her.Anyway, she is indeed from Scotland.-- Bill McC

Led astray by Steve Gardham - again!Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill McCarthy" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: Important Books Available> At 08:22 PM 1/19/2004 +0000, Dave Eyre wrote:
> >Certainly her Crawfurd's collection is dedicated to "Canadian kin".
> >
> >
> >
> > > I know she's at SSS but isn't she Canadian?
> > > SteveG
> > >
>
> Those are the today-living Canadian kin of the singers that Andrew
Crawfurd
> collected from.  Some of the supplementary data that Lyle gathered  to
> support the publication of Crawfurd's manuscript came from Canadian lineal
> and collateral descendants of the singers whose songs are in the
> manuscript.  The publication is quite appropriately dedicated to them.
>
> Poor Emily! does she know we're talking about her.
>
> Anyway, she is indeed from Scotland.
>
> -- Bill McC
>

Hi,All
It shouldn't take enormous gaffs from me to get us discussing one of our
best scholars of recent times, but for what it's worth apologies to all
concerned, and I hope Emily's retirement doesn't mean we have seen the
last of her publications. I'll certainly be looking closely for any
publications I don't already have. Is there a bibliography somewhere?
SteveG (blushing profusely)

In fact Lyle says he got the ballads he put into his booklets from those
collected by William Motherwell in Old Kilbarchan, as printed by Child.
I have now added one more item to my long long list of things I'd like to
get done one day - a CD of 'Ballads As Sung In Old Kilbarchan'.EwanEwan McVicar,
84 High Street
Linlithgow,
West Lothian
Scotland
EH49 7AQtel 01506 847935

Dear folks--While I can't supply you with the complete bibliography, I know that
one of Emily's most recent publications was jointly done with me and
Kay McAlpine.  It is a book called "The Song Repertoire of Amelia and
Jane Harris,"  two Scottish women who wrote their ballads down in two
text manuscripts, separated in time by about 20 years (so containing
interesting variants) and one MS of tunes (which I edited) that were
the prime source for the tunes that Child published in Vol. V of his
collection.  As usual, Emily's notes are a model of erudition, and I
recommend the book to all.  It was published in 2002 by the Scottish
Text Society and is available from them at the following address: 27
George Square, Edinburgh EH8 9LD Scotland.  (That, of course, is also
the address of the School of Scottish Studies, where Emily still has an
office and is indeed still turning out lots of wonderful scholarly
work.  I had the privilege of having an office down the hall from her
last year, when I was on a Fulbright with the SSS; she remains a close
friend--and maybe I can get a bibliography from her, as well as tell
her in what high esteem she is held!)Anne Dhu McLucasOn Tuesday, January 20, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Steve Gardham wrote:> Hi,All
> It shouldn't take enormous gaffs from me to get us discussing one of
> our
> best scholars of recent times, but for what it's worth apologies to all
> concerned, and I hope Emily's retirement doesn't mean we have seen the
> last of her publications. I'll certainly be looking closely for any
> publications I don't already have. Is there a bibliography somewhere?
> SteveG (blushing profusely)

Hi,Anne,
Thanks for the information.
Can you please tell me what period the two Harris singers cover, and give
a rough idea of the price of the book?
SteveG

My Dictionary of Superstitions was published on 31st October, and by 2nd
November Amazon were listing a secondhand copy!
Steve Roud[unmask] wrote:> Only occasionally I have seen "Long Steel Rail" in 2nd hand bookstores.
> (Whether that is a reflection of the low initial sales or of owners'
> reluctance to part with it I wouldn't care to venture.)  I did see one in
> the "rare book" cabinet in a book store in the San Luis Obispo area some
> years ago; I offered to autograph it in exchange for the book I wanted to
> buy.
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "edward cray" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 7:47 AM
> Subject: Remainder
>
>
> >
> > Trust me, as a greybeard (literally), that you can never have too many
> copies of a book you have written or edited.  (Indeed, I have given away
> more copies of some of my books than the publishers sold.)  It is amazing
> how ten or fifteen years after publication of a book, a potential employer
> or editor asks to see what you have written.  (Those copies never come
> back.)  And if you have to finally get rid of some just so you can store the
> late Grandma Nonny's bureau and bed, you can always give a box to the local
> library to sell as its fund-raisers.  (In the U.S., you can then take an
> appropriate tax deduction as a charitable contribution.)  Just don't go to
> eh library sale yourself.  It is wrenching to see your magnum opus with a
> 50-cent pricetag.
> >
> > Ed
> >--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail

Hi,
'The Song Repertoire of Amelia and Jane Harris'
Details can be found on the Scottish Text Society website, and the price
of the volume would appear to be £30.
SteveG

I'm sad to have to tell you of the death of Marie Hare, who was one of the finest singers of traditional songs I've ever known.  A native of Strathadam, Newcastle New Brunswick, Marie Hare sang both local woods songs and ballads widely known in Britain and America.  She was "discovered" by folklorists and folksong collectors from outside her native Miramichi, and Sandy Paton issued a recording of her singing on Folk Legacy c. 1961.  Like Almeda Riddle, she did the "folk festival circuit" and performed at Mariposa and at Pinewoods Camp.  When I began visiting New Brunswick in 1986, Marie had me over to her house almost immediate, and she'd always insist that I have a meal with her.  She was a woman of immense dignity and truly a Canadian national treasure.

Ed and othersThanks for the replies regarding the Maine outlaw ballad.  I would certainly agree that whoever wrote this ballad knew the "Boston Burglar" quite well, and that ballad has been collected a number of times in the northeast (not surprisingly).  I've
spent a little time with the newspaper microfilms, but no luck yet.Cheers
JamieForum for ballad scholars <[unmask]> writes:
>Jamie:
>
>This looks to me to be a rewrite of, or inspired by "The Boston Burglar," with which is shares lines, themes.
>
>See Cox, _Folk-Songs of the South,_ pp. 296 ff.
>
>Ed

Marge,This is sad news indeed.  I don't think I ever met Marie but I know her recordings well and have enjoyed them greatly.Cheers
Jamie

I have some wonderful interview tapes, which, perhaps, I share with the archives.  I just called Sandy to let him know about Marie's death.  She was indeed a gracious lady.        Marge-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of James Moreira
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 2:45 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: death of Marie HareMarge,This is sad news indeed.  I don't think I ever met Marie but I know her recordings well and have enjoyed them greatly.Cheers
Jamie

Burns Night  is coming, and I can't think of a better accompaniment to
the festivities than Linn's magnificent "Complete Songs of Robert Burns"
set. Unlike the more usual drawing-room concert settings, the huge (12
volumes, 13 CDs) set has strongly folk-oriented arrangements, by an
assemblage of 87 of Scotland's finest folksingers.CAMSCO Music[800/548-FOLK (3655) or [unmask]] is proude to be
able to offer it, and is pleased to be able to sell the entire set for
$120 (US). That's less than $9.75 per disc (or abour five quid.)Braw, bonnie stuff!

Marge:Are Ms. Hare's songs and ballads in published form -- beyond the Folk Legacy record?Ed----- Original Message -----
From: "Steiner, Margaret" <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:17 am
Subject: death of Marie Hare> I'm sad to have to tell you of the death of Marie Hare, who was one of the
> finest singers of traditional songs I've ever known.  A native of
> Strathadam, Newcastle New Brunswick, Marie Hare sang both local woods
> songs and ballads widely known in Britain and America.  She was
> "discovered" by folklorists and folksong collectors from outside her
> native Miramichi, and Sandy Paton issued a recording of her singing on
> Folk Legacy c. 1961.  Like Almeda Riddle, she did the "folk festival
> circuit" and performed at Mariposa and at Pinewoods Camp.  When I began
> visiting New Brunswick in 1986, Marie had me over to her house almost
> immediate, and she'd always insist that I have a meal with her.  She was a
> woman of immense dignity and truly a Canadian national treasure.
>

On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 12:49 PM, vze29j8v wrote:<Burns Night  is coming, and I can't think of a better accompaniment to
the festivities than Linn's magnificent "Complete Songs of Robert Burns"
set.>On a much more modest scale, I would like to point out the single CD
produced by Katherine Campbell  and  Emily Lyle with Mairi Campbell on
fiddle.  It goes with the booklet "Burns and Scottish Fiddle Tradition"
published by the University of Edinburgh in 2000(ISBN 0-900949-06-6)
and I imagine is still obtainable from them, though I can't tell you
what it costs, since it was a gift to me from Emily.The booklet explores links between Burns and the Scottish fiddle
tradition through a combination of singing, fiddle playing, poetry
reading and commentary.  The songs include "Te de'il's awa wi' th'
exciseman" and "Rattlin, roarin Willie," as well as lesser known ones,
and the fiddle tunes include "Loch Erroch side," "Tweedside" and "For
lack of gold," as well as a sequence of dance songs, including the
Birks of Abergeldie," "Tail todle" and "Jeanie Nettle."

Anne:Thank you for the bibliographic note.  This is something I want to add to m,y library.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Dhu McLucas <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, January 23, 2004 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: A Wee Semi-Commercial Announcement> On Friday, January 23, 2004, at 12:49 PM, vze29j8v wrote:
>
> <Burns Night  is coming, and I can't think of a better accompaniment to
> the festivities than Linn's magnificent "Complete Songs of Robert Burns"
> set.>
>
> On a much more modest scale, I would like to point out the single CD
> produced by Katherine Campbell  and  Emily Lyle with Mairi Campbell on
> fiddle.  It goes with the booklet "Burns and Scottish Fiddle Tradition"
> published by the University of Edinburgh in 2000(ISBN 0-900949-06-6)
> and I imagine is still obtainable from them, though I can't tell you
> what it costs, since it was a gift to me from Emily.
>
> The booklet explores links between Burns and the Scottish fiddle
> tradition through a combination of singing, fiddle playing, poetry
> reading and commentary.  The songs include "Te de'il's awa wi' th'
> exciseman" and "Rattlin, roarin Willie," as well as lesser known ones,
> and the fiddle tunes include "Loch Erroch side," "Tweedside" and "For
> lack of gold," as well as a sequence of dance songs, including the
> Birks of Abergeldie," "Tail todle" and "Jeanie Nettle."
>

I do know that some of her songs are represented in Louise Manny's now out-of-print book, Songs of Miramichi, published in 1968.  I have a copy, and I know that Sandy has it, too.  It may be hard to come by.        Marge-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of edward cray
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 5:55 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: death of Marie HareMarge:Are Ms. Hare's songs and ballads in published form -- beyond the Folk Legacy record?Ed----- Original Message -----
From: "Steiner, Margaret" <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:17 am
Subject: death of Marie Hare> I'm sad to have to tell you of the death of Marie Hare, who was one of the
> finest singers of traditional songs I've ever known.  A native of
> Strathadam, Newcastle New Brunswick, Marie Hare sang both local woods
> songs and ballads widely known in Britain and America.  She was
> "discovered" by folklorists and folksong collectors from outside her
> native Miramichi, and Sandy Paton issued a recording of her singing on
> Folk Legacy c. 1961.  Like Almeda Riddle, she did the "folk festival
> circuit" and performed at Mariposa and at Pinewoods Camp.  When I began
> visiting New Brunswick in 1986, Marie had me over to her house almost
> immediate, and she'd always insist that I have a meal with her.  She was a
> woman of immense dignity and truly a Canadian national treasure.
>