Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Well Blankenship was born ony a few years before my maternal
grandparents,and they died relatively young in 1969,so you might find
he just died relatively recently.One german author who wrote a famous
WW1 book in the 1920's died around 1999 or 2000 at the age of 101.Theres a good chance any kids he might have had are still alive and kicking
perhaps with musty old papers sitting in the garage.The Emmen records on
the internet for example list great great great grandaddy from around
1845 but also lists the births of my parents in a computerized version
of marriages,births and deaths.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loathsomedragon
a site devoyed to the Laidly Worm

I've just come across this piece on a Collard of Bristol single slip. It
sounds very familiar but I can't place it or link it up with anything in my
indexes at the moment. It contains the very familiar line 'and she was got
with child by her own servant man' When her husband, a duke, finds out he
throws her out and she and her baby die in poverty. perhaps it derives from
a longer ballad of an earlier century. Any info gratefully accepted.
first line..'Is there ever a sailor in fair London town?'
SteveG

There's a longer song on late 18th cent broadsides called THE MOURNFUL LADY'S GARLAND, but this seems to be a different song - 16-year old girl is seduced by squire, who rejects her and marries another, she and baby wander in poverty, he refuses to help, etc. (3 copies in Madden collection, Garlands F-N)
Steve Roud--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail-----Original Message-----
From:     Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
To:       [unmask]
Subject:  Mournful Lady> I've just come across this piece on a Collard of Bristol single slip. It
> sounds very familiar but I can't place it or link it up with anything in my
> indexes at the moment. It contains the very familiar line 'and she was got
> with child by her own servant man' When her husband, a duke, finds out he
> throws her out and she and her baby die in poverty. perhaps it derives from
> a longer ballad of an earlier century. Any info gratefully accepted.
> first line..'Is there ever a sailor in fair London town?'
> SteveGSignup to supanet at http://www.supanet.com/info

Yes, thanks, Steve, this is definitely a different ballad.
SteveG

Precursor of "It's the Syme the 'Oke World Over?"Steve Gardham wrote:>Yes, thanks, Steve, this is definitely a different ballad.
>SteveG
>
>
>

I've raided some charity shops, junk shops and 2nd hand record shops
over the past week, after resisting the temptation for quite a while.
Picked up some nice items...BALLAD FOLK
Jean Redpath with Charlie Murray, Lizzie Higgins, Archie Fisher, Mirk,
The Gaugers, Jimmy Hutchison, Gordeanna McCulloch, Willie Scott, etc
All from a 1970s BBC television series.UNITY CREATES STRENGTH
Dominic Behan, Alex Campbell, Ian Campbell, etc.
The singers involved "gave their services free to show solidarity with
the new Clydesiders".COALDUST BALLADS
Ian Campbell Folk Group. Much of this LP was drawn from AL Lloyd's
'Come All Ye Bold Miners'.WAY OUT WEST
Alex Campbell singing a collection of American songs.SONGS OF EWAN MACCOLL
Dave Burland, Tony Capstick, Dick GaughanORFEO
Archie Fisher's 1970 classic. I've been looking for this one for ages.ARKLE
Dominic Behan. I don't usually buy Irish records, concentrating on
Scottish material these days, but this one was like a puppy in a pet
shop, whining "Save me!" to me. 1965.--
Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
Friday-Monday: mailto:[unmask]
Tuesday-Thursday: mailto:[unmask]

Mr. Bulmer has issued Orfeo on CD - see
http://www.celtic-music.co.uk/shop/phfcd1002.htmJohn Roberts>I've raided some charity shops, junk shops and 2nd hand record shops
>over the past week, after resisting the temptation for quite a while.
>Picked up some nice items...
>
>BALLAD FOLK
>Jean Redpath with Charlie Murray, Lizzie Higgins, Archie Fisher, Mirk,
>The Gaugers, Jimmy Hutchison, Gordeanna McCulloch, Willie Scott, etc
>All from a 1970s BBC television series.
>
>UNITY CREATES STRENGTH
>Dominic Behan, Alex Campbell, Ian Campbell, etc.
>The singers involved "gave their services free to show solidarity with
>the new Clydesiders".
>
>COALDUST BALLADS
>Ian Campbell Folk Group. Much of this LP was drawn from AL Lloyd's
>'Come All Ye Bold Miners'.
>
>WAY OUT WEST
>Alex Campbell singing a collection of American songs.
>
>SONGS OF EWAN MACCOLL
>Dave Burland, Tony Capstick, Dick Gaughan
>
>ORFEO
>Archie Fisher's 1970 classic. I've been looking for this one for ages.
>
>ARKLE
>Dominic Behan. I don't usually buy Irish records, concentrating on
>Scottish material these days, but this one was like a puppy in a pet
>shop, whining "Save me!" to me. 1965.
>
>--
>Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
>Friday-Monday: mailto:[unmask]
>Tuesday-Thursday: mailto:[unmask]

John Roberts wrote:> Mr. Bulmer has issued Orfeo on CD ...I try not to deal with them after their dubious business practices. In
addition, many of their recent releases appear to be CDRs sold at CD
prices. They have neglected, it is alleged, to register these
re-releases with MCPS (or any copyright agency), and while that is not
illegal, it has been reported that many artists have simply not
received royalties from the company. Notable examples are Nic Jones,
whose 'Ballads and Songs' has be re-released without money going to
him, it is alleged, and Dick Gaughan, who can barely conceal his bile
when this subject arises.It is a tricky dilemma for collectors: they have secured the rights to
many classic folk and traditional labels and sat on them. Now they're
releasing albums which are very difficult to get elsewhere, but those
collectors with a conscience feel an obligation to give these issues a
body swerve.--
Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
Friday-Monday: mailto:[unmask]
Tuesday-Thursday: mailto:[unmask]

Steve Gardham wrote:> It has occurred to me that there are a reasonable number of Scots who
> subscribe to the Ballad List and one of you might just be in a better
> position geographically than I am to help with a piece of current
> research. For almost a year now I have been trying to find an
> original Hazelgreen for the ballad John of Hazelgreen. I am fully
> aware of Scott's Hazeldean in Northumberland but not at all
> convinced; all trad versions are very definite about HazelGREEN. In
> Galloway a couple of miles west of Newton Stewart lies the village of
> Hazley Green, perfectly placed in the 'South Countree'. It would help
> my researches if I had contact with someone in Galloway not a million
> miles from Hazley Green.I've consulted the 1884 Scottish Gazetteer but no Hazelgreen is listed.
A Hazelfield is, again in Galloway. My brother has recently moved to
Galloway near Hazelfield, and he has a large map of the area, and some
older maps, so I'll ask him to dig around.--
Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
Friday-Monday: mailto:[unmask]
Tuesday-Thursday: mailto:[unmask]

It is indeed a dilemma. His business practices leave much to be
desired. Without wishing to come to Bulmer's support, however, in the
case of Nic Jones I think it has been well established that Nic
signed away his royalties long ago for a cash payment.I try to minimize my purchases from him. I did buy his reissue of Ray
Fisher's CD (direct from Ray), and I admit I also bought Orfeo!JR>John Roberts wrote:
>
>> Mr. Bulmer has issued Orfeo on CD ...
>
>I try not to deal with them after their dubious business practices. In
>addition, many of their recent releases appear to be CDRs sold at CD
>prices. They have neglected, it is alleged, to register these
>re-releases with MCPS (or any copyright agency), and while that is not
>illegal, it has been reported that many artists have simply not
>received royalties from the company. Notable examples are Nic Jones,
>whose 'Ballads and Songs' has be re-released without money going to
>him, it is alleged, and Dick Gaughan, who can barely conceal his bile
>when this subject arises.
>
>It is a tricky dilemma for collectors: they have secured the rights to
>many classic folk and traditional labels and sat on them. Now they're
>releasing albums which are very difficult to get elsewhere, but those
>collectors with a conscience feel an obligation to give these issues a
>body swerve.
>
>--
>Nigel Gatherer, Crieff, Scotland
>Friday-Monday: mailto:[unmask]
>Tuesday-Thursday: mailto:[unmask]

Scottish tune "The Blossom
of the Raspberry", also known as "Miss Hamilton's DelighLooking for midi, notation, or ABC of this....Many thanks!Conrad

Americans on the list will recognize Archie Manning.  He and several of
his sons are or have been prominent American football quarterbacks.David Evans tells me that some of their relatives have lived for a long
time in the vicinity of Crystal Springs, Copiah County, Mississippi, where
John Henry Dabney may have lived after the Civil War.In 1914 William T. Blankenship married Mrs. T. M. Manning in Morgan
County, Alabama (Huntsville).  He was a musician who, around that time,
was performing on the streets.  He also published and sold broadside
ballads.  Around this time he published "John Henry, the Steel Driving
Man," which contains these lines:She got up at midnight, caught that No. 4 train,
"I am going where John Henry fell dead."This is a correct allusion to one of the trains one might have taken north
from Crystal Springs to start a journey toward Birmingham and Leeds,
Alabama.  Actually, I only know that it would have been correct in 1900,
when Casey Jones was driving on that line fpr the IC, but I've been told
that the run from Crystal Springs to Jackson was already in place in 1887,
when John Henry Dabney may have died at Dunnavant, Alabama, just south of
Leeds.The following is an awful speculation, but one worth trying to check out."John Henry" was written by someone living in the vicinity of Copiah and
Hinds Counties, Mississippi, someone who knew the train schedule.  It was
first circulated in that area.  Mrs. Manning's first husband was from
there and he knew the song.  He taught it to her.  When she met W. T.
Blankenship she gave it to him and he published it.John Garst

Thanks for your interest and help, Nigel. Hazley Green / Hazliegreen was
definitely there for the 1851 census and I've seen references to 1790s.
I've been told by a local historian that any names circa 17th century in
Galloway would be unlikely to have been in Scots/English much  more likely
Gaelic, but then I have also read that there was a strong Saxon influence
in the area from an early period. The John of Hazelgreen ballad need not be
very old. It contains very little  archaic language or ideas and in fact
has hardly any Scots words in the known versions. It could even have been
an English ballad originally. The Scottish place names mentioned in the few
versions collected are not consistent over place names.
SteveG

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Here are the first two verses that may help to jog memoriesIs there ever a sailor in fair London town
Will go to Newcastle for a lady of gold?
Her belly it was big and her face pale and wan,
And she was got with child by her own servant man.This beautiful lady with tears in her eyes,
I am ruin'd for ever with sorrow she cries,
My credit it is broke & my honour it is gone,
What shall I do when my good Lord comes home?

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Bob Santelli has worked on projects with us at the Smithsonian, and is
presently based at the Experience Music Project in Seattle.  He previously
worked for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as their education director.  He's
on our current advisory board too.  He's a good, knowledgeable guy.Just for little provenance.StephanieStephanie Smith, Ph.D., Assistant Archivist and Webmaster
Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage
Smithsonian Institution
750 9th Street, NW, Suite 4100
Washington, D.C.  20560-0953
202 275-1157  voice
202 275-2251 fax
[unmask]NB: Until further notice, please send all mail to:
PO Box 37012
Victor Building, Room 4100, MRC 953
Washington, DC 20013-7012>>> [unmask] 11/24/03 03:36PM >>>
It's a companion volume to the PBS tv series of the same name. A rather
general overview with all the plusses and minuses of the series.
Santelli has written several books about blues and popular music in
general. Don't know what the exchange rate is these days but Barnes &
Noble is selling new copies for $12.99.Fred McCormick wrote:> PS Books, who have come up on this list before, have a book called
> American Roots Music listed in their current catalogue at £14-99.
> (http://www.psbooks.co.uk/Music_Rec.asp) The book appears to concern
> itself with various forms of American traditional music, such as
> blues, cajun, zydeco etc.
>
> However, this publication is unknown to me, as are the editors, Robert
> Santelli, Holly George-Warren and Jim Brown, and I am feeling
> decidedly wary.
>
> I get the feeling in fact that the book will turn out to be
> exploitative (cashing in on O Brother etc) and, at 232 pages, rather
> superficial. However, before I write it off, does anyone know of this
> book, and can they suggest a good reason for purchase ?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Fred McCormick.

Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]> writes:
>PS Books, who have come up on this list before, have a book called
>American Roots Music listed in their current catalogue at £14-99.
>(http://www.psbooks.co.uk/Music_Rec.asp) The book appears to concern
>itself with various forms of American traditional music, such as blues,
>cajun, zydeco etc.
>
>However, this publication is unknown to me, as are the editors, Robert
>Santelli, Holly George-Warren and Jim Brown, and I am feeling decidedly
>wary.Both Santelli & George-Warren have written a great deal in the music field
& Jim Brown was the producer of the "American Roots Music" series on PBS
here in the states, to which the book is companion i presume.Bob Santelli & I MC-d the Smithsonian Harry Smith Collection celebration
in concert a few years ago.  He used to be affiliated with the Rock & Roll
Museum in Cleveland.  He did a lot of work with the current public radio
series "The Blues," and collaborated with George-Warren and two others on
the companion book to the PBS television series of blues films.Mary Cliff, TRADITIONS
WETA Radio
Washington, DC

Fred
I picked one up in London last week for (I think) £10. It's a coffee-table book - large format, and copiously illustrated. It is a broad survey and the text probably won't tell you anything you don't know, but it's worth it for the pictures alone. I can't say any more about it until Boxing Day - it's been secreted away as a Christmas present for me. Must be a very large stocking.
Regards
Steve--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail-----Original Message-----
From:     Stephanie Smith <[unmask]>
To:       [unmask]
Subject:  Re: American Roots Music> Bob Santelli has worked on projects with us at the Smithsonian, and is
> presently based at the Experience Music Project in Seattle. He previously
> worked for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as their education director. He's
> on our current advisory board too. He's a good, knowledgeable guy.
>
> Just for little provenance.
>
> Stephanie
>
> Stephanie Smith, Ph.D., Assistant Archivist and Webmaster
> Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage
> Smithsonian Institution
> 750 9th Street, NW, Suite 4100
> Washington, D.C. 20560-0953
> 202 275-1157 voice
> 202 275-2251 fax
> [unmask]
>
> NB: Until further notice, please send all mail to:
> PO Box 37012
> Victor Building, Room 4100, MRC 953
> Washington, DC 20013-7012
>
>
> >>> [unmask] 11/24/03 03:36PM >>>
> It's a companion volume to the PBS tv series of the same name. A rather
> general overview with all the plusses and minuses of the series.
> Santelli has written several books about blues and popular music in
> general. Don't know what the exchange rate is these days but Barnes &
> Noble is selling new copies for $12.99.
>
> Fred McCormick wrote:
>
> > PS Books, who have come up on this list before, have a book called
> > American Roots Music listed in their current catalogue at £14-99.
> > (http://www.psbooks.co.uk/Music_Rec.asp) The book appears to concern
> > itself with various forms of American traditional music, such as
> > blues, cajun, zydeco etc.
> >
> > However, this publication is unknown to me, as are the editors, Robert
> > Santelli, Holly George-Warren and Jim Brown, and I am feeling
> > decidedly wary.
> >
> > I get the feeling in fact that the book will turn out to be
> > exploitative (cashing in on O Brother etc) and, at 232 pages, rather
> > superficial. However, before I write it off, does anyone know of this
> > book, and can they suggest a good reason for purchase ?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Fred McCormick.Signup to supanet at http://www.supanet.com/info

Fred:This book is not the most important you might have in your library, but it
is, first of all, well-written by folks who know their stuff; and second
is handsomely illustrated.It is a survey that spans Amer-Indian, Tex-Mex, blues, Appalachian,
western, country and western, etc., etc.There are, of course, books on all these areas, but this one-volume survey
is probably a bargain coming from Postscript.Ed

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

> Scottish tune "The Blossom
> of the Raspberry", also known as "Miss Hamilton's Deligh
>
> Looking for midi, notation, or ABC of this....It's on my "Old Scottish Flute Music" CD-ROM in five different forms.
First published in the Caledonian Pocket Companion, though I think
I may have given a manuscript version probably derived from that (not
many differences).I presume you heard about it via a post of mine somewhere; I know of
nobody else who's ever mentioned it on an electronic forum.  Why the
interest?It's one of those tunes that only seems to exist in a complicated
arty form; I've never seen anything that looks like it might be a
vocal antecedent or a dance-form descendant.  Wouldn't be hard to
make a strathspey out of it (as was done with the vaguely similar
"Birks of Invermay") but nobody did.BTW, I now have the use of a PayPal account (though it'll be a
couple of days before I figure out how to drive it) so I should
be able to take orders more easiy from the US, Europe, Cuba,
Elfland etc.cheers - jack-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   *   homepage for my CD-ROMs of Scottish traditional music; free stuff on food intolerance, music and Mac logic fonts.

In researching the origins of the Billing's Tune "Chester"
I ran across this reference.
(via the internet abc search engine)I am looking for the manuscript version.
If it is not too costly I can use pay pal to pay costs of zerox and postage of
a copy of the manuscript.Many thanks.
I have found several cds which have the piece in recorded form.
Conrad>===== Original Message From Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]>
=====
>> Scottish tune "The Blossom
>> of the Raspberry", also known as "Miss Hamilton's Deligh
>>
>> Looking for midi, notation, or ABC of this....
>
>It's on my "Old Scottish Flute Music" CD-ROM in five different forms.
>First published in the Caledonian Pocket Companion, though I think
>I may have given a manuscript version probably derived from that (not
>many differences).
>
>I presume you heard about it via a post of mine somewhere; I know of
>nobody else who's ever mentioned it on an electronic forum.  Why the
>interest?
>
>It's one of those tunes that only seems to exist in a complicated
>arty form; I've never seen anything that looks like it might be a
>vocal antecedent or a dance-form descendant.  Wouldn't be hard to
>make a strathspey out of it (as was done with the vaguely similar
>"Birks of Invermay") but nobody did.
>
>BTW, I now have the use of a PayPal account (though it'll be a
>couple of days before I figure out how to drive it) so I should
>be able to take orders more easiy from the US, Europe, Cuba,
>Elfland etc.
>
>cheers - jack
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
><http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   *   homepage for my CD-ROMs of Scottish
traditional music; free stuff on food intolerance, music and Mac logic fonts.

I have been using Paypal for a number of years and found it most satisfactory
( probably 2/300 hundred transactions).However It ain't perfect. A number of sites comment on the way it works - though like I
said - I have no  problems.Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

On 11/25/03, Fred McCormick wrote:>Hi Everybody,
>
>Thanks for the great flurry of replies, and my apologies for using the word exploitative, which is obviously most appropriate in this case. Otherwise, you've confirmed my suspicions that it would turn out to be a book for non-specialists. I'll take a look at it via interlibrary loan and probably recommend it to anybody just starting out.
>
>I don't know anything about the PBS series, but I shall watch it avidly if it ever gets broadcast on UK terrestrial tv (analogue, that is).FWIW, I've seen at least two copies of the book at Half Price
Books in the last few weeks. I glanced at it and put it back. :-)
Illustrations don't do much for me; that's just the kind of guy
I am. But I say this because you can very likely find it for less
than full price, if the number of used copies I've seen is any
indication.--
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

A friend in New Hampshire has asked me about Ebenezer Fry and his song.  I'd
like to sound knowledgeable, but I've never heard of it.  Can anyone help?  The
scansion looks difficult, but the music is great, jaunty and perky and crass.
The earliest singer I've traced was born in 1894.Gerald PorterI run the old mill
Over there in Rubensville,
My name is Joshua
Ebeneezer Fry.
I know a thing or two
You can bet your life I do;
What we're a-comin to ain't no good.
[Chorus]  Well, I swan,
I must be gettin on,
Giddyap Napoleon,
It looks like rain;
I'll be switched,
If the hay ain't pitched;
Come in when you're over to
The farm again.
I drove the old mare
Down to the county fair,
Took first prize on
A load of summer squash . . .
[here 4 lines are missing.  They have to end, "what X's a comin to / ain't no
good"]
{Chorus}
My son Joshua
Went to Philadelphia,
Walks down the street in
A brand-new suit.
Smokes cigarettes too
Like the city feller do;
What he's a-comin to
Ain't no good.
[Chorus]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Porter" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 26 November 2003 11:38
Subject: [BALLAD-L] Ebenezer Fry> A friend in New Hampshire has asked me about Ebenezer Fry and his song.  I'd
> like to sound knowledgeable, but I've never heard of it.  Can anyone help?  The
> scansion looks difficult, but the music is great, jaunty and perky and crass.
> The earliest singer I've traced was born in 1894.The Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection has it (Box 150 Item 116a), but images are not available
online.Wal, I Swan (Ebenezer Frye). Words & Music by Benj. Hapgood Burt.
New York: M. Witmark & Sons, 1907.
Form of Composition: strophic with chorus
Instrumentation: piano and voice
First Line: I run the old mill over here to Reuben's ville
First Line of Chorus: Wal, I swan! I mus' be gittin' on!
Sung By Raymond Hitchcock in Henry W. Savage's Production of The Yankee Tourist."The Yankee Tourist" was apparently an adaptation of Richard Harding Davies' farce "The Galloper" as
a musical comedy, and was first produced at the Astor Theatre in August 1907.The Roud Index lists two examples at no. 4647: Shay, My Pious Friends & Drunken Companions
pp.117-119 and Spaeth, Read 'Em and Weep (1926) pp.255-257.Malcolm Douglas---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 21/11/03

----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Douglas" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: 26 November 2003 12:53
Subject: Re: [BALLAD-L] Ebenezer Fry> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Porter" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: 26 November 2003 11:38
> Subject: [BALLAD-L] Ebenezer Fry
>
>
> > A friend in New Hampshire has asked me about Ebenezer Fry and his song.  I'd
> > like to sound knowledgeable, but I've never heard of it.  Can anyone help?  The
> > scansion looks difficult, but the music is great, jaunty and perky and crass.
> > The earliest singer I've traced was born in 1894.
>
>
> The Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection has it (Box 150 Item 116a), but images are not available
> online.It turns out that sheet music images are available in pdf format via the UCLA website.New York, M. Whitmark & Sons, 1907:http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?ITEMID=MWWISNew York, Jerry Vogel Music Co., 1935:http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?ITEMID=NSO033002Malcolm Douglas---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Riley Puckett recorded it 'way back when...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malcolm Douglas" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Ebenezer Fry> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Malcolm Douglas" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: 26 November 2003 12:53
> Subject: Re: [BALLAD-L] Ebenezer Fry
>
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gerald Porter" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: 26 November 2003 11:38
> > Subject: [BALLAD-L] Ebenezer Fry
> >
> >
> > > A friend in New Hampshire has asked me about Ebenezer Fry and his
song.  I'd
> > > like to sound knowledgeable, but I've never heard of it.  Can anyone
help?  The
> > > scansion looks difficult, but the music is great, jaunty and perky and
crass.
> > > The earliest singer I've traced was born in 1894.
> >
> >
> > The Lester Levy Sheet Music Collection has it (Box 150 Item 116a), but
images are not available
> > online.
>
> It turns out that sheet music images are available in pdf format via the
UCLA website.
>
> New York, M. Whitmark & Sons, 1907:
>
> http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?ITEMID=MWWIS
>
> New York, Jerry Vogel Music Co., 1935:
>
> http://digital.library.ucla.edu/apam/librarian?ITEMID=NSO033002
>
>
> Malcolm Douglas
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.543 / Virus Database: 337 - Release Date: 21/11/03

> In researching the origins of the Billing's Tune "Chester"
> I ran across this reference.> I am looking for the manuscript version.From my flute CD-ROM: this is the theme.  It's followed by a 4/4
variation and a more distantly related jig.  From a Scottish MS
compiled by a man with connections to Jamaica.   This tune seems
to have been directly copied from the _Caledonian Pocket Companion_.X:703
T:The Blossom of the Raspberry
S:Knox MS, NLS MS 21717 (1755)
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=116
K:D
f2(f/g/a) gfed| ag       (f/g/a) A4          |B2AG  FAdF          |GFED    E4 |
fagf      edec|(d/c/d/e/) fA    (F/D/F/A/) dD|f2ed  B>A (d/B/A/G/)|F2 TE2  D4:|
a2ag     Tf2ed| abag            Tf2        ed|gad'a bagf          |gfed {d}e4 |
fagf      edec|(d/c/d/e/) fA    (F/D/F/A/) dD|f2ed  B>A (d/B/A/G/)|F2  E2  D4:|I'd guess James Oswald wrote it himself.  Billings would presumably
have had access to his publications.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   *   homepage for my CD-ROMs of Scottish traditional music; free stuff on food intolerance, music and Mac logic fonts.

On 11/26/03, Malcolm Douglas wrote:[ ... ]>The Roud Index lists two examples at no. 4647: Shay, My Pious Friends & Drunken Companions
>pp.117-119 and Spaeth, Read 'Em and Weep (1926) pp.255-257.Just to save people some time, the song itself is not in Spaeth
(at least the 1946 edition); just notes and observations about
performance style.There is a version in the Digital Tradition, though, to give
people a text to compare against. There are also several old-time
recordings:Al Bernard, "Wal I Swan" (Vocalion 15262, 1926) (Harmony 154-H, 1926)
Riley Puckett, "Wal I Swan" (Columbia 15078-D, 1926)
Gid Tanner & his Skillet Lickers, "Giddap Napoleon"
(Columbia 15695-D, 1931)
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

----- Original Message -----
From: Roy Berkeley <[unmask]><<Riley Puckett recorded it 'way back when...>>And so, separately, did the Skillet Lickers, and vaudevillian Al Bernard.
From the Ballad Index:Al Bernard, "Wal I Swan" (Vocalion 15262, 1926) (Harmony 154-H, 1926)
Riley Puckett, "Wal I Swan" (Columbia 15078-D, 1926)
Gid Tanner & his Skillet Lickers, "Giddap Napoleon" (Columbia 15695-D, 1931)More recently Sam Hinton recorded it as "I Run the Old Mill" on a tape,
"From an East Texas Childhood" (artist's issue).Peace,
Paul

Interestingly, I have this song on a CD recently sent me from Australia by an old friend, Greg Hildebrand. Greg, who has training in folklore from the University of Indiana, sang in the Boston coffeehouses occasionally in the 60s, and disappeared on a sort of world expedition not long after. We'd all assumed him dead- no word in years and last seen in the Golden Triangle when that was no place to be- when he suddenly reappeared well and happy and still singing, in Australia.I've gone all over the CD for an ordering address, but can't find one. However, one can contact Greg at 132 Caramut Road, Minhamite 3287, Victoria, Australia, or try [unmask] The record is "O'Leary and Hildebrand- Together Again- Again". Lot's of other interesting stuff on the CD, including some fun Aussie stuff.Mary Stafford
Allston, MA

Many many thanks!Conrad>===== Original Message From Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]>
=====
>> In researching the origins of the Billing's Tune "Chester"
>> I ran across this reference.
>
>> I am looking for the manuscript version.
>
>>From my flute CD-ROM: this is the theme.  It's followed by a 4/4
>variation and a more distantly related jig.  From a Scottish MS
>compiled by a man with connections to Jamaica.   This tune seems
>to have been directly copied from the _Caledonian Pocket Companion_.
>
>X:703
>T:The Blossom of the Raspberry
>S:Knox MS, NLS MS 21717 (1755)
>M:4/4
>L:1/8
>Q:1/4=116
>K:D
>f2(f/g/a) gfed| ag       (f/g/a) A4          |B2AG  FAdF          |GFED    E4
|
>fagf      edec|(d/c/d/e/) fA    (F/D/F/A/) dD|f2ed  B>A (d/B/A/G/)|F2 TE2
D4:|
>a2ag     Tf2ed| abag            Tf2        ed|gad'a bagf          |gfed {d}e4
|
>fagf      edec|(d/c/d/e/) fA    (F/D/F/A/) dD|f2ed  B>A (d/B/A/G/)|F2  E2
D4:|
>
>I'd guess James Oswald wrote it himself.  Billings would presumably
>have had access to his publications.
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
><http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   *   homepage for my CD-ROMs of Scottish
traditional music; free stuff on food intolerance, music and Mac logic fonts.

> Hi-
more or less complete lyrics are available in The Digital Tradition at muscat.orgTry a search for Frye or [Wal I Swan]---brackets indicate that you're lookung for a phrase.dick greenhaus
> From: Gerald Porter <[unmask]>
> Date: 2003/11/26 Wed AM 05:38:38 CST
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Ebenezer Fry
>
> A friend in New Hampshire has asked me about Ebenezer Fry and his song.  I'd
> like to sound knowledgeable, but I've never heard of it.  Can anyone help?  The
> scansion looks difficult, but the music is great, jaunty and perky and crass.
> The earliest singer I've traced was born in 1894.
>
> Gerald Porter
>
> I run the old mill
> Over there in Rubensville,
> My name is Joshua
> Ebeneezer Fry.
> I know a thing or two
> You can bet your life I do;
> What we're a-comin to ain't no good.
> [Chorus]  Well, I swan,
> I must be gettin on,
> Giddyap Napoleon,
> It looks like rain;
> I'll be switched,
> If the hay ain't pitched;
> Come in when you're over to
> The farm again.
> I drove the old mare
> Down to the county fair,
> Took first prize on
> A load of summer squash . . .
> [here 4 lines are missing.  They have to end, "what X's a comin to / ain't no
> good"]
> {Chorus}
> My son Joshua
> Went to Philadelphia,
> Walks down the street in
> A brand-new suit.
> Smokes cigarettes too
> Like the city feller do;
> What he's a-comin to
> Ain't no good.
> [Chorus]
>

Happy Thanksgiving, Paul!Thanks for mentioning my tape of "I Run the Old Mill."I learned it from oral sources when I was about 10 or 11 years old, which
would put it at around 1927 or '28, when we were living in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The
way we sang it was very similar to the version in Frank Shay's _My Pious
Friends and Drunken Companions_ (1927) and that may well have been the source:  I
never saw the book, however, until the Dover reprint edition came out a good
many years later.   My family moved to Crockett, Texas, then  on to Washington,
DC, where (in 1937) my two younger sisters (Nell and Ann)  and I formed the
Texas Trio. This was one of our most-sung numbers. Right now I'm engaged in
recording and writing out the words and music to all the songs I know -- about 1600
of them!--and the following is what I  remember today of the song;  it may
not be exactly like my recording.I RUN THE OLD MILL ("Wal, I Swan!")I run the old mill
Over here to Rubensville;
    My name is Joshu-ay Ebenezer Fry.
I know a thing or two
You jist bet your boots I do;
    You cain't fool me, because I'm too dang sly.I've met your bunco-men,
Always got the best of them.
    I met a couple on the Boston train.
They said "How be you?"
I said "That'll do--
    Skedaddle right along with your durn skin-game!"    CHORUS:
    Wal, I swan
    I must be gettin' on.
        Giddyap, Napoleon, it looks like rain.
    Well, I'll be switched;
    The hay ain't pitched!
        Come in when you're over to the farm again.I drove the old mare
Over to the County Fair
    Took first prize  on a load of summer squash.
Comin' back to Rubensville,
Stopped by the cider-mill.
    Got home tighter than a drum, by gosh!Got home so darn late
Could'nt find the barn gate;
    Dropped both reins clean onto the fill.
My wife says "Joshuay,
I never saw you act this way!"
    My wife says "Josh, is it poss-i-bill?"    CHORUS:
    Wal, I swan
    I must be gettin' on.
        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
    Well, I'll be durned;
    The butter ain't churned!
        Come in when you're over to the farm again.We had a big show
Here about a week ago:
    Pitched up a tent by the old mill dam.
My wife says "Let's go
In to see the side show:
    I want to git a look at The Tattooed Man!"Then I see a gent look
Sharp at my pocketbook.
    He says "Give me two tens fer a five."
I says "You durn fool,
I be the constabule:
    Now you're arrested just as sure as you're alive!"    CHORUS:
    Wal, I swan
    I must be gettin' on.
        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
    Well, I'll be blowed!;
    The meadow ain't mowed!
        Come in when you're over to the farm again.My son Joshu-ay
Went to Philadelphi-ay.
    Wouldn't do a day's work efen he could.
Smokes cigareets too,
Like the city folks do:
    Don't know what he's comin' to, but it ain't no good!    CHORUS:
    Wal, I swan
    I must be gettin' on.
        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
    Well, I'll be bopped;
    The hogs ain't slopped!
        Come in when you're over to the farm again.
*********************************************
I don't remember where we got it;  it seemed like something Nell and Ann and
I had always known!Best wishes,Sam

Hi!        Happy Thanksgiving to everyone in the USA! Hope that you don't
overeat too much tomorrow. :-)        Between food and footballs games, you can bid on the following:        SONGSTERS        2575249282 - The Temperance Songster, 1904, $15 (ends Nov-28-03
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                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Sam:What do you intend to do with the 1600 songs once you get them written down?
I wonder if such an archive might be placed on the Fresno State site David Engle has arranged.Ed----- Original Message -----
From: [unmask]
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 4:24 pm
Subject: Re: Ebenezer Fry> Happy Thanksgiving, Paul!
>
> Thanks for mentioning my tape of "I Run the Old Mill."
>
> I learned it from oral sources when I was about 10 or 11 years old, which
> would put it at around 1927 or '28, when we were living in Tulsa,
> Oklahoma. The
> way we sang it was very similar to the version in Frank Shay's _My Pious
> Friends and Drunken Companions_ (1927) and that may well have been the
> source:  I
> never saw the book, however, until the Dover reprint edition came out a good
> many years later.   My family moved to Crockett, Texas, then  on to
> Washington,DC, where (in 1937) my two younger sisters (Nell and Ann)  and
> I formed the
> Texas Trio. This was one of our most-sung numbers. Right now I'm engaged in
> recording and writing out the words and music to all the songs I know --
> about 1600
> of them!--and the following is what I  remember today of the song;  it may
> not be exactly like my recording.
>
> I RUN THE OLD MILL ("Wal, I Swan!")
>
> I run the old mill
> Over here to Rubensville;
>    My name is Joshu-ay Ebenezer Fry.
> I know a thing or two
> You jist bet your boots I do;
>    You cain't fool me, because I'm too dang sly.
>
> I've met your bunco-men,
> Always got the best of them.
>    I met a couple on the Boston train.
> They said "How be you?"
> I said "That'll do--
>    Skedaddle right along with your durn skin-game!"
>
>    CHORUS:
>    Wal, I swan
>    I must be gettin' on.
>        Giddyap, Napoleon, it looks like rain.
>    Well, I'll be switched;
>    The hay ain't pitched!
>        Come in when you're over to the farm again.
>
> I drove the old mare
> Over to the County Fair
>    Took first prize  on a load of summer squash.
> Comin' back to Rubensville,
> Stopped by the cider-mill.
>    Got home tighter than a drum, by gosh!
>
> Got home so darn late
> Could'nt find the barn gate;
>    Dropped both reins clean onto the fill.
> My wife says "Joshuay,
> I never saw you act this way!"
>    My wife says "Josh, is it poss-i-bill?"
>
>    CHORUS:
>    Wal, I swan
>    I must be gettin' on.
>        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
>    Well, I'll be durned;
>    The butter ain't churned!
>        Come in when you're over to the farm again.
>
> We had a big show
> Here about a week ago:
>    Pitched up a tent by the old mill dam.
> My wife says "Let's go
> In to see the side show:
>    I want to git a look at The Tattooed Man!"
>
> Then I see a gent look
> Sharp at my pocketbook.
>    He says "Give me two tens fer a five."
> I says "You durn fool,
> I be the constabule:
>    Now you're arrested just as sure as you're alive!"
>
>    CHORUS:
>    Wal, I swan
>    I must be gettin' on.
>        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
>    Well, I'll be blowed!;
>    The meadow ain't mowed!
>        Come in when you're over to the farm again.
>
> My son Joshu-ay
> Went to Philadelphi-ay.
>    Wouldn't do a day's work efen he could.
> Smokes cigareets too,
> Like the city folks do:
>    Don't know what he's comin' to, but it ain't no good!
>
>    CHORUS:
>    Wal, I swan
>    I must be gettin' on.
>        Giddyap, Napoloeon, it looks like rain.
>    Well, I'll be bopped;
>    The hogs ain't slopped!
>        Come in when you're over to the farm again.
> *********************************************
> I don't remember where we got it;  it seemed like something Nell and Ann and
> I had always known!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Sam
>

Another item on eGay at the moment is Volume 1 of Ritson's English Songs:  "A Select Collection of English Songs with their Original Airs: and
A Historical Essay on the Origin and Progress of National Song, by
the late Joseph Ritson Esq. in three volumes. The Second Edition with
additional songs and occasional notes by Thomas Park, FSA. Vol I.
London 1813. Harden and Wright Printers, St Johns Square London"http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3568780739&category=23923Item #3568780739, ends on Sunday, with an unmet opening bid of $75.
Of course, if you wanted this, you'd probably want the other two
volumes.John Roberts

Hi,
Leafing through previous postings on ths List I notice many of you on the
other side of the pond are interested in hunting down ballad origins,
something dear to me on this side of the pond.
The 3 most recent  finds have been the newspaper article on a broadside
ballad called 'The Wreck of the Industry off Spurn Point' (Roud 599) which
entered the oral tradition in Britain. It happened in 1819.
Second ..the original details described in the ballad 'Kelly the Pirate'
(Roud 529,Laws K32) which happened in 1782.
Third .. just a few weeks ago whilst finishing off a trawl through the
Madden broadside collection I came across a printing of 'The Effects of
love' (Roud 177,1169, 1493) widely printed on broadsides and found in
British oral tradition under titles such as 'Humber Banks', 'Betsy
Walton/Watson', 'Sarah Wilson'. The Dover printed broadside tells us Betsy
was from my home town Hull and the event happened 17th Dec 1812. I'm still
trying to find out further details.2 other ballads I'm currently working on are Stow Brow / The Drowned Sailor
(Roud 185, Laws K18) And John of Hazelgreen (Child 293)
SteveG

Steve Gardham writes:
> The Dover printed broadside tells us Betsy was from my home town Hull...Maybe you know something about the following?  You'd expect something
this dramatic to make the national papers but I haven't found anything.The clinical description suggests one of the African haemolytic viruses,
like Ebola.F.3.a.13(62)
============A FULL ACCOUNT OF TWELVE YOUNG WOMEN, Who were smothered on TUESDAY,
in the infirmary at Hull, being effected with and incurable disease.A German ship arrived in this port on the 23rd of june, 1829 having 30
hands on board, and when the vessel got into harbour, immediately a
number of unfortunate females went on board, to barter both their souls
and bodies for a trifling sum of money.It is the nature of sin to carry with it its own punishment, and the
awful denunciation of God's displeasure commences in this, and terminates
in the terrors of an other world: for the foreigners infested a disease
of such an infectious and dreadful nature, that it baffled the skill of
the most eminent and experienced of the faculty, and proved too stubborn
for any antidote to cure.After every means had been used without producing the desired effect, the
symptoms of this dreadful malady became more and more alarming: the flesh
turned yellow, then spongy as a honey comb, and afterwards black and began
to drop from their bones.So offensive was the stench that arose from their bodies that no person,
however desirous, could approach their beds or give them any relief.On Saturday, a consultation of the medical gentlemen, connected with the
infirmary was held, when after a long conference, they came to the awful
decision, that these wretched women should be smothered with nitre and
sulphre, the easiest and most effectual method of putting a stop to the
raging infection.THE NAMES OF THESE UNFORTUNATE WOMEN ARE Jane Williams, aged 19, and Mary
Williams 16, of Newcastle; Eliza Watson, 15, of Leeds; Mary Evans, 20, of
North Shields; Maria Sager, 29, and Sarah Rich, 17, of Halifax; Catherine
Howell, 17, of Salford; Ann Lloyd, 19, and Eliza Bennet, 18, of Sheffield;
Mary Parry, 18, of Wrexham; Sarah Jones, 19, and Ellen Davis, 18, of Chester.Verses on their melancholy End.Lament, lament, the woeful fate
        Of twelve young females dear,
Who suffer'd a sad death of late,
        Most painful for to hear.
Now let all those young women know,
        Who stray from Virtue's ways,
That vice did prove their overthrow,
        And shortened their days.A foreign ship in port arriv'd,
        Of thirty hands or so,
And twelve gay damsels young and blythe,
        Straight on board did go.
And their a loathsome vile disease,
        Infectious and foul,
Did on these twelve young women size,
        And rag'd beyond control.Their flesh did rot upon their bones,
        Spungy, like honey comb,
Their dismal cries, and sighs, and moans,
        Would pierce a heart of stone.
The doctors to their pain and grief,
        Beheld their sufferings great,
But could afford them no relief,
        The plague for to abate.All human means being tried in vain,
        But could not mend the case,
To put the sufferers out of pain,
        An awful scene took place.
The dread infection to destroy,
        Which through the town might spread,
Their precious lives were sacrific'd.
        They smother'd were in bed.Printed by Kay and Simpson, for J. Robson.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/>   *   homepage for my CD-ROMs of Scottish traditional music; free stuff on food intolerance, music and Mac logic fonts.

Steve:"Kelly the Pirate" appears in multiple editions of the very important
American _Forget Me Not Songster._  The earliest edition I have seen dates
from about 1836.Norm Cohen, who has handled multiple editions of this songster, might have
an earlier date for its first appearance in the U.S.Ed

Dear Ed & Norm,
After a request by me in the Songs under the Microscope feature in Englsh
Dance and Song magazine, a notes and queries feature currently edited by
me, Anthony Pye of Wellingborough UK ran a check in the Public Record
Office in London on the log of 'The Stag',Capt Robert Palliser Cooper. Here
I give his response in full.
  'I got the impression that the Stag was empolyed throughout the
commission in British home waters, cruising to intercept privateers and
snmugglers, and conveying merchant ships. At the relevant time she was
cruising in the Irish Sea and was making a sweep from  Bardsey island (S.W.
Caernarvonshire) to County Dublin when she came across Kelly.
        Extract from the log, Friday, 4th Jan 1782:
3/4 past 9 saw a cutter under our lee bow, gave chace, swayed up topgallant
yards, set topgallant sails. Cutter hoisted French colours and fired her
stern chacer at us. Kept constantly firing on her with our forecastle guns
and small arms. Fresh breezes and cloudy. P.M. still in chace. At 1/2 past
noon the cutter struck her colours. Do. hove to, hoisted out our boats and
boarded the prize. She proved to be a French privateer, belonging to
Dunkirk, called L'Anti Brittain, commanded by John Kelly. Employed shifting
the prisoners, sent on board Mr Bowden, Mr Williams and 25 men to take care
of the prize. 1/2 past 4 made sail, the cutter in company. the high land
over Dalkey N.W. 6 or 7 leagues. P.M. at 1/2 past 5 tacked ship. At 9
struck the topgallant masts. 1/2 past 10 came to anchor in Dublin Bay with
the small bower in 7 fathom water. The pprize working into the bay.        Dalkey is 9 miles S.E. of Dublin and the small bower is one of the
bow anchors. Subsequent entries show that ' the prize came to anchor a
little to the W-ward of us' at 2pm next day and on Sunday a.m. 'sent on
shore all the prisoners (except the captain and 5 othes)', the remainder
being sent on shore p.m. Monday. The prize eventually accompanied a convoy
being escorted by Stag to ports in southern England and was dropped off at
Plymouth.'
      Anthony found no further refernces to Kelly or his crew.
Although I'm sure this would have been reported in contemporary newspapers
but I haven't had time to follow this up yet. Anyone else interested please
feel free to do so.
SteveG

Dear Ed & Norm,
After a request by me in the Songs under the Microscope feature in Englsh
Dance and Song magazine, a notes and queries feature currently edited by
me, Anthony Pye of Wellingborough UK ran a check in the Public Record
Office in London on the log of 'The Stag',Capt Robert Palliser Cooper. Here
I give his response in full.
  'I got the impression that the Stag was empolyed throughout the
commission in British home waters, cruising to intercept privateers and
snmugglers, and conveying merchant ships. At the relevant time she was
cruising in the Irish Sea and was making a sweep from  Bardsey island (S.W.
Caernarvonshire) to County Dublin when she came across Kelly.
        Extract from the log, Friday, 4th Jan 1782:
3/4 past 9 saw a cutter under our lee bow, gave chace, swayed up topgallant
yards, set topgallant sails. Cutter hoisted French colours and fired her
stern chacer at us. Kept constantly firing on her with our forecastle guns
and small arms. Fresh breezes and cloudy. P.M. still in chace. At 1/2 past
noon the cutter struck her colours. Do. hove to, hoisted out our boats and
boarded the prize. She proved to be a French privateer, belonging to
Dunkirk, called L'Anti Brittain, commanded by John Kelly. Employed shifting
the prisoners, sent on board Mr Bowden, Mr Williams and 25 men to take care
of the prize. 1/2 past 4 made sail, the cutter in company. the high land
over Dalkey N.W. 6 or 7 leagues. P.M. at 1/2 past 5 tacked ship. At 9
struck the topgallant masts. 1/2 past 10 came to anchor in Dublin Bay with
the small bower in 7 fathom water. The pprize working into the bay.        Dalkey is 9 miles S.E. of Dublin and the small bower is one of the
bow anchors. Subsequent entries show that ' the prize came to anchor a
little to the W-ward of us' at 2pm next day and on Sunday a.m. 'sent on
shore all the prisoners (except the captain and 5 othes)', the remainder
being sent on shore p.m. Monday. The prize eventually accompanied a convoy
being escorted by Stag to ports in southern England and was dropped off at
Plymouth.'
      Anthony found no further refernces to Kelly or his crew.
Although I'm sure this would have been reported in contemporary newspapers
I haven't had time to follow this up yet. Anyone else interested please
feel free to do so.
SteveG

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

John,
Not 'arf! Wow, that was quick!
Copies of any contemporary accounts would be very welcome, and I'm sure
Norm would be interested, and others on the List. You've got my address in
the TSF list.
SteveG.

John,
You've obviously never been to Hull.
It has been recently voted in a national poll as the worst place to live in
Britain. Whilst I don't fully agree with this of course, the only ballads
to come out of the Hull area are full of crime and disasters. This goes
back to at least the 17th century e.g. The Merchant's Son of York and the
Beggar Wench of Hull which perhaps not surprisingly entered oral tradition
in Scotland but not in the Hull area, except recent tradition, as it was
sung regularly in The Watersons Bluebell Folk Club by Jimmy MacBeath
impersonator, Ian Jock Manuel, blissfully ignorant of its local connections.
Then we have the old saying ;From Hull, Hell and Halifax Good Lord deliver
us' which refers to the very stringent law enforcement in the area in past
centuries, and which was made into a song in the 19th century called 'The
Dalesman's Litany' We have lots of shipping disaster songs like 'The wreck
of the Industry' songs about prison 'Hedon Road Gaol' The nearest town,
Beverley is not much better 'Beverley Gaol' 'The Beverley Maid and the
Tinker' Tou have to do a lot of rooting to find a positive Hull area song.
Even those further afield in the sticks are about poaching..'Sledmere
Poachers'
But they are trying to do something about it!  The East Riding they may take pride in,
  As for Beverley, noted for devilry
  And it's never dull in 'Ull.
By the way Dave Eyre was a law enforcement officer in Hull for some years
but even he had to retire to Sheffield eventually.
And yes I know Wilberforce did help to get rid of slavery and we're proud
of it!
SteveG

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

To all on the other side of the pond,
Just finishing off adding 'Pills' into my indexes and in vol6 p139 (1720
edn) I came across 'The Batchelor's Choice' which looked vaguely familiar
and was, unlike most stuff in 'Pills', in trad style. On checking further,
it seems to be a likely predecessor of 'I won't marry at all' Belden p262
and also in several other Am collections, Henry, Linscott, Creighton,
Brown, Davis etc. Then I found an interim broadside version c1800 printed
in York called 'Tom won't be married yet'
 First verse of TBC...I fain wou'd find a passing good wife,
That I may live merry all days of my life,
But that I do fear much sorrow and strife,
   Then I'll not be married yet, yet, yet,
   And I'll not be married yet, yet, yet.Of its 21 verses the best fit is v14If I should marry with one that is poor,
By me my best friends will set little store,
And so go a begging from door to door
And I'll not etc.The York broadside commencesI'll not be marry'd with one that is poor,
For we must go a begging from door to door,
She must carry the wallet, and I must carry the kitt (?)
And I will not be marry'd yet.Plus 4 more verses.I've tried to find these in Bruce's index unsuccessfully, but they could be
there somewhere.

Okay I'm working on it.
My experience with these things is 'there's no smoke without fire'
cheers, Steve.

Jack,
Any indication where the ballad was printed? The printers' names don't
sound familiar.
Steve.

> John,
> Not 'arf! Wow, that was quick!
> Copies of any contemporary accounts would be very welcome, and I'm sure
> Norm would be interested, and others on the List. You've got my address in
> the TSF list.
> SteveG.
>Yes indeed.
Norm

> By the way Dave Eyre was a law enforcement officer in Hull for some years
> but even he had to retire to Sheffield eventually.I was a customs officer.
Good even for Burns......good enough for me!!Dave> And yes I know Wilberforce did help to get rid of slavery and we're proud
> of it!
> SteveG
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On Friday, October 31, 2003 7:00 PM you wrote> I could have sworn that Bascomb Lamarr Lunceford sang "Kempie" or
> "Kimpie" in identifying the owner of the bangs. And I did meet a lady
> preacher named "Tincy".
> dick greenhaus
 Far afield of the initial inquiry but you're right about the name.  On
"Mole in the Ground" Lunsford sings
"Kempie wants a nine-dollar shawl" in the ''when I come over the hill..."
verse.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 [unmask] wrote:> In a message dated 10/30/2003 5:34:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [unmask] writes:
>
>
> > "I'll gar [i.e. make] all your
> > ribbons reel" and I think the meaning is obvious....
> >                Hoping this posting gets through,  robinia
> >
> Robinia,
> Oh dear, I regret that it is still not obvious to a nerd like me.  "reel" has
> several meanings, and perhaps the one here is to "spin off" as to spin off of
> a reel.  Would a free translation be "I'll make all your ribbons spin?"  This
> might be similar to the nutting girl, "I saw the world go round and round [as
> she was being seduced]."
>   Thanks.  Pete
>
Pete,
I'm afraid my imagination runs on more literal lines -- to strewn clothing
and tousled hair -- but it's a line that evidently lends itself to layers of
meaning, and yours is probably as good as any.  I just wanted to set you
straight on the common Scots word of "gar."
       robinia

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 07:00 PM 10/31/03 -0500, you wrote:
>I could have sworn that Bascomb Lamarr Lunceford sang "Kempie" or
>"Kimpie" in identifying the owner of the bangs. And I did meet a lady
>preacher named "Tincy".
>dick greenhausIt may very well be that Lunceford sang it with "Kempie".  I do know
however that a) Tommy Jarrell sang it as "Tempie" and that b) there is in
fact such a name, Tempie.  The inquiry was trying to decipher a script name
from which started with a T, then possibly an e, and ended with ie, so I
suggested the name Tempie as a possible match.Lisa

>At 02:10 PM 10/31/03 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>"Tennie" is my best effort at deciphering a cursive scrawl.  I'm
>>pretty certain of the beginning, "T," and ending, "ie."  What's in
>>between is really anybody's guess, but at the place of the second
>>letter is a little loop that looks much like the "e" at the end.
>>Both William and Tennie were born in Tennessee, as were all four of
>>their parents.  Perhaps the wife's name is really "Tennessee
>>Blankenship" and "Tennie" is a nickname.
>>--
>>john garst    [unmask]
>
>
>How about maybe "Tempie"....No.  In "Te...ie," "..." consists entirely of hills and valleys, no
tall or deep letters like "t" or "p."
--
john garst    [unmask]

Hi,        As promised here is the main Ebay list for this week. :-)        SONGSTERS        2568635178 - Richards & Pringle's Songster And Musical Album,
1905, $13.25 (ends Nov-03-03 20:55:05 PST) ( I apologize about missing
this one and not putting in the earlier songster list.)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3562286940 - Canawlers by Thompson, $7.50 (ends Nov-03-03
21:46:01 PST)        3562742359 - The Second Penguin Australian Songbook by Scott,
1976, $1 AU (ends Nov-04-03 01:39:55 PST)        3562369430 - THE ORAL TRADITION OF THE AMERICAN WEST by
Cunningham, 1990, $3.99 (ends Nov-04-03 09:43:43 PST)        3562380326 - Illustrated British Ballads Old & New : Vols. I &
II by Smith, 1881, 4 GBP (ends Nov-04-03 10:23:31 PST)        3562393194 - AFRO-AMERICAN FOLK SONGS by KREHBIEL, 1975 reprint,
$4.99 (ends Nov-04-03 11:03:01 PST)        3562399924 - STEAMBOATIN' DAYS, FOLK SONGS OF THE RIVER PACKET
ERA by Wheeler, 1969 reprint, $5.99 (ends Nov-04-03 11:24:38 PST)        3562441168 - Slave Songs of the Georgia Sea Islands by Parrish,
1942, $75 (ends Nov-04-03 13:42:30 PST)        3562495079 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, volume 1, 1946, $12.99
(ends Nov-04-03 18:48:15 PST)        2568109021 - The Legendary Ballads of England and Scotland by
Roberts, 1887, 3.99 GBP (ends Nov-05-03 02:23:42 PST)        3562594970 - SCOTTISH NURSERY RHYMES by Montgomerie, 1946, 3 GBP
(ends Nov-05-03 09:38:09 PST)        2569129870 - THE SCOTTISH FOLKSINGER by Buchan & Hall, $10 (ends
Nov-05-03 19:27:56 PST)        2569194583 - JOE DAVIS FOLIO OF HILL COUNTRY SONGS & BALLADS,
1930, $4.55 (ends Nov-06-03 06:00:40 PST)        2569421396 - NATIONAL SONGS, BALLADS AND RECITATIONS OF IRELAND,
192?, $20 (ends Nov-06-03 20:06:11 PST)        3562964740 - LYRA VENATICA ~ A COLLECTION OF HUNTING SONGS
COMPILED JOHN SHERARD REEVE, 1906, $75 (ends Nov-06-03 20:49:28 PST)        2200435551 - FOLK MUSIC A Catalog of Folk Songs, Ballads,
Dances, Instrumental Pieces, and Folk Tales of the United States and
Latin America on Phonograph Records, Library of Congress, 1964, $4.99
(ends Nov-07-03 08:57:52 PST)        2569509101 - Folk Songs from Sussex by Butterworth, 1912, 0.99
GBP w/reserve (ends Nov-07-03 09:08:21 PST)        3563115921 - Folk Travelers, Ballads, Tales & Talk by
Boatwright, Hudson & Maxwell, 1955, $5 (ends Nov-07-03 17:03:20 PST)        3563264002 - Ancient Poems, Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry
of England by Bell, 1857, $9.99 (ends Nov-08-03 11:49:04 PST)        3635606119 - Miners Songs of '49, Souvenir California Gold
Centennial 1848 - 1948, 1948, $2.99 (ends Nov-08-03 19:21:19 PST)        2569856198 - One Hundred English Folk Songs For Medium Voice by
Sharp, 1916/1954, $14.50 (ends Nov-08-03 20:26:30 PST)        3562923858 - A Pepysian Garland.. Black-Letter Broadside Ballads
of the Years 1595-1639 .. From the Collection of Samuel Pepys... by
Rollins, 1922, $22 (ends Nov-09-03 16:31:52 PST)        2569388010 - GEMS of SCOTTISH SONG, $5.99 (ends Nov-09-03
17:53:22 PST)        2569396702 - American Folk Song and Folk Lore by Lomax & Cowell,
1942, $29.99 (ends Nov-09-03 18:22:45 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        2569798553 - BLACK BANJO SONGSTERS OF NC AND VIRGINIA, CD,
2003?, $4.99 (ends Nov-08-03 14:32:08 PST) Seller does not list the
publisher of this CD. Does anyone know who to credit?        2569348030 - JIMMY MACBEATH "COME A' YE TRAMPS AND HAWKERS" and
other BOTHY BALLADS 7" EP, COLLECTOR RECORDS, 1960, 2.50 GBP (ends
Nov-09-03 14:41:20 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

    William Bruce Olson, retired physical chemist and longtime song and ballad scholar, died Friday afternoon, October 31, at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital, Gaithersburg, Maryland.  He was 73.
    The cause of death was listed as severe pancreatitis, Olson's son, Kenneth, said.  His father, however, also suffered from kidney failure and severe emphysema.
    Olson -- who preferred to be known by his middle name -- entered the hospital to treat breathing problems with a continuous oxygen supply.  Fatalistic, and complaining too of severe pains in his lower back, he told a friend he was not sure he would survive.
    Olson spent his professional career at the National Bureau of Standards -- now the National Institute of Standards and Technology.  Hired as a physical chemist -- in that subject he earned his doctorate -- Olson became expert in both infra-red and molecular spectroscopy as tools for testing materiels.
    Caught up in the folk song revival of the 1950s, Olson became interested not in performing but in researching the songs others were singing.  Over time, he delved into the history of particular songs, and through that began to catalogue the all but untouched body of 16th, 17th and 18th Century song and music collections.  A hobby first became a passion and then a consuming avocation, he explained to a friend.
    Olson came to take special pleasure in the access he earned to libraries devoted to what he deemed as serious scholarship, particularly the Folger Library in Washington.  That library holds a large song collection which Olson knew better than the staff.
    At the same time, because of his lack of formal training and credentials, he was never certain of his acceptance by academic folklorists.
    Even so, it was as a so-called private scholar, that is, a serious student of both musical and textual relationships of stage, popular and folk musics of the pre-Victorian British Isles that Olson earned an international reputation among students of folk song.  (Indeed among this last requests even as he lay in his hospital bed were for the personal telephone numbers of two scholars in Great Britain, Steve Roud and Jack Campion, and instructions how to dial them directly.  He also asked for the number of American Norm Cohen, like Olson a retired chemist who conducts research into folk song.  Olson intended to say goodbye personally to them, he told a friend.)
    Like all true scholars, Olson was generous with his research.  A stranger's query on any of a half-dozen listserves to which Olson subscribed would produce a lengthy reply culled from his large database -- and an addenda correcting errors in his first, hastily pasted message.
    "That was just like him," his son Kenneth said.  "All his life he couldn't just answer yes or no.  He always had to give a full answer, an explanation."
    It was that which drove his ballad research as well.
    Olson is survived by his wife, Barbara T. Olson; three sons, Douglas of Laurel, Maryland, Bryan of San Jose, California, and Kenneth of Gaithersburg, Maryland; and two sisters, Beryl of Bremerton, Washington; and Carol Kimsay, a resident of California.
    Olson's voluminous research -- updated a final time just days before he entered the hospital -- is posted at [unmask]  Arrangements will be made, Kenneth Olson said, to permanently archive his website.                          #  #  #  #OTHER WEBSITE PLEASE COPY

Ed,Thank you for the notice. Is there some memorial planned so that we can
honor Bruce and also extend our sympathies and best wishes in this
difficult time to his family?Lew Becker>>> [unmask] 11/2/2003 7:16:10 PM >>>
    William Bruce Olson, retired physical chemist and longtime song and
ballad scholar, died Friday afternoon, October 31, at Shady Grove
Adventist Hospital, Gaithersburg, Maryland.  He was 73.
    The cause of death was listed as severe pancreatitis, Olson's son,
Kenneth, said.  His father, however, also suffered from kidney failure
and severe emphysema.
    Olson -- who preferred to be known by his middle name -- entered
the hospital to treat breathing problems with a continuous oxygen
supply.  Fatalistic, and complaining too of severe pains in his lower
back, he told a friend he was not sure he would survive.
    Olson spent his professional career at the National Bureau of
Standards -- now the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
Hired as a physical chemist -- in that subject he earned his doctorate
-- Olson became expert in both infra-red and molecular spectroscopy as
tools for testing materiels.
    Caught up in the folk song revival of the 1950s, Olson became
interested not in performing but in researching the songs others were
singing.  Over time, he delved into the history of particular songs, and
through that began to catalogue the all but untouched body of 16th, 17th
and 18th Century song and music collections.  A hobby first became a
passion and then a consuming avocation, he explained to a friend.
    Olson came to take special pleasure in the access he earned to
libraries devoted to what he deemed as serious scholarship, particularly
the Folger Library in Washington.  That library holds a large song
collection which Olson knew better than the staff.
    At the same time, because of his lack of formal training and
credentials, he was never certain of his acceptance by academic
folklorists.
    Even so, it was as a so-called private scholar, that is, a serious
student of both musical and textual relationships of stage, popular and
folk musics of the pre-Victorian British Isles that Olson earned an
international reputation among students of folk song.  (Indeed among
this last requests even as he lay in his hospital bed were for the
personal telephone numbers of two scholars in Great Britain, Steve Roud
and Jack Campion, and instructions how to dial them directly.  He also
asked for the number of American Norm Cohen, like Olson a retired
chemist who conducts research into folk song.  Olson intended to say
goodbye personally to them, he told a friend.)
    Like all true scholars, Olson was generous with his research.  A
stranger's query on any of a half-dozen listserves to which Olson
subscribed would produce a lengthy reply culled from his large database
-- and an addenda correcting errors in his first, hastily pasted
message.
    "That was just like him," his son Kenneth said.  "All his life he
couldn't just answer yes or no.  He always had to give a full answer, an
explanation."
    It was that which drove his ballad research as well.
    Olson is survived by his wife, Barbara T. Olson; three sons,
Douglas of Laurel, Maryland, Bryan of San Jose, California, and Kenneth
of Gaithersburg, Maryland; and two sisters, Beryl of Bremerton,
Washington; and Carol Kimsay, a resident of California.
    Olson's voluminous research -- updated a final time just days
before he entered the hospital -- is posted at [unmask]
Arrangements will be made, Kenneth Olson said, to permanently archive
his website.                          #  #  #  #OTHER WEBSITE PLEASE COPY

>         2569798553 - BLACK BANJO SONGSTERS OF NC AND VIRGINIA, CD,
>2003?, $4.99 (ends Nov-08-03 14:32:08 PST) Seller does not list the
>publisher of this CD. Does anyone know who to credit?
>
>  Happy Bidding!
>                                 DoloresSmithsonian Folkways.  Great cd of 32 songs with banjo accompaniment by
various performers.
Lisa

A damned shame--both from a personal and a scholarly viewpoint. He'll be
sorely missed.dick greenhausedward cray wrote:>    William Bruce Olson, retired physical chemist and longtime song and ballad scholar, died Friday afternoon, October 31, at Shady Grove Adventist Hospital, Gaithersburg, Maryland.  He was 73.
>    The cause of death was listed as severe pancreatitis, Olson's son, Kenneth, said.  His father, however, also suffered from kidney failure and severe emphysema.
>    Olson -- who preferred to be known by his middle name -- entered the hospital to treat breathing problems with a continuous oxygen supply.  Fatalistic, and complaining too of severe pains in his lower back, he told a friend he was not sure he would survive.
>    Olson spent his professional career at the National Bureau of Standards -- now the National Institute of Standards and Technology.  Hired as a physical chemist -- in that subject he earned his doctorate -- Olson became expert in both infra-red and molecular spectroscopy as tools for testing materiels.
>    Caught up in the folk song revival of the 1950s, Olson became interested not in performing but in researching the songs others were singing.  Over time, he delved into the history of particular songs, and through that began to catalogue the all but untouched body of 16th, 17th and 18th Century song and music collections.  A hobby first became a passion and then a consuming avocation, he explained to a friend.
>    Olson came to take special pleasure in the access he earned to libraries devoted to what he deemed as serious scholarship, particularly the Folger Library in Washington.  That library holds a large song collection which Olson knew better than the staff.
>    At the same time, because of his lack of formal training and credentials, he was never certain of his acceptance by academic folklorists.
>    Even so, it was as a so-called private scholar, that is, a serious student of both musical and textual relationships of stage, popular and folk musics of the pre-Victorian British Isles that Olson earned an international reputation among students of folk song.  (Indeed among this last requests even as he lay in his hospital bed were for the personal telephone numbers of two scholars in Great Britain, Steve Roud and Jack Campion, and instructions how to dial them directly.  He also asked for the number of American Norm Cohen, like Olson a retired chemist who conducts research into folk song.  Olson intended to say goodbye personally to them, he told a friend.)
>    Like all true scholars, Olson was generous with his research.  A stranger's query on any of a half-dozen listserves to which Olson subscribed would produce a lengthy reply culled from his large database -- and an addenda correcting errors in his first, hastily pasted message.
>    "That was just like him," his son Kenneth said.  "All his life he couldn't just answer yes or no.  He always had to give a full answer, an explanation."
>    It was that which drove his ballad research as well.
>    Olson is survived by his wife, Barbara T. Olson; three sons, Douglas of Laurel, Maryland, Bryan of San Jose, California, and Kenneth of Gaithersburg, Maryland; and two sisters, Beryl of Bremerton, Washington; and Carol Kimsay, a resident of California.
>    Olson's voluminous research -- updated a final time just days before he entered the hospital -- is posted at [unmask]  Arrangements will be made, Kenneth Olson said, to permanently archive his website.
>
>                          #  #  #  #
>
>OTHER WEBSITE PLEASE COPY
>
>
>

Ed,Thanks for relaying this news.  Bruce was, as the obituary says, an incredibly generous researcher, and his knowledge of Blackletter ballads seemed close to omnipotent at times.  He will indeed be greatly missed.  As with Lew, I'd be interested to
know how to send condolences to the family.All the best
JamieForum for ballad scholars <[unmask]> writes:
>Ed,
>
>Thank you for the notice. Is there some memorial planned so that we can
>honor Bruce and also extend our sympathies and best wishes in this
>difficult time to his family?
>
>Lew Becker

As would I.        Marge-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of James Moreira
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:03 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: W.B. Olson: In MemoriamEd,Thanks for relaying this news.  Bruce was, as the obituary says, an incredibly generous researcher, and his knowledge of Blackletter ballads seemed close to omnipotent at times.  He will indeed be greatly missed.  As with Lew, I'd be interested to
know how to send condolences to the family.All the best
JamieForum for ballad scholars <[unmask]> writes:
>Ed,
>
>Thank you for the notice. Is there some memorial planned so that we can
>honor Bruce and also extend our sympathies and best wishes in this
>difficult time to his family?
>
>Lew Becker

As a newcomer to the website and a researcher who has only recently become
aware of Bruce's incredible on-line archive, I can not claim to have known
him personally, but as a researcher in the same fields and in the small
amount of contact I have had with him, knowing I had found a kindred
spirit, I am devastated, and offer my condolences to his family and all of
his friends on the ballad list.
Steve Gardham

Folks:A number of you have asked about memorial services and/or condolences to the Olson family.  In reply, Ken Olson sent this.Ed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed,Please thank everyone on Ballad-L for their sympathy.  Sorry if what follows
is a bit rough, but this is my first time arranging something like this.Condolences may be sent to:The Olson Family
101 East Deer Park Drive
Gaithersburg, MD 20877Or to me at [unmask], and I will relay them to my family.Those in the Washington area may wish to attend the memorial service.  If
so, please notify me in advance so I can gauge the number of attendees.  I'
ve booked a fairly small room, but it should be able to hold more people
than I'm currently expecting.  The tone will be fairly informal and it
should last about two hours.The service will begin at 3:30 PM on Friday, November 7, 2003
It will be held in Room A of the Bohrer Park Activity Center
Summit Hall Farm Park
506 South Frederick Avenue
Gaithersburg, MarylandDIRECTIONS:
? Located at 506 South frederick Avenue, just south of Gaithersburg High
School.
? From Frederick Avenue (Route 355) turn onto Education Boulevard (south of
Summit Avenue)
? Proceed down Education Boulevard to traffic circle.
? Go around circle and veer off to the left.
? You will see the Activity Center on your right.The Web Page for the Activity Center, with a map, may be found at:
http://www.ci.gaithersburg.md.us/poi/default.asp?POI_ID=844&TOC=1;28;844;Best Wishes,Ken

Ed - Have the family check out mudcat, there are quite a few tributes to
Bruce posted there.  www.mudcat.orgSusan Friedman (of DT)-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of edward cray
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:09 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: CondolencesFolks:A number of you have asked about memorial services and/or condolences to the
Olson family.  In reply, Ken Olson sent this.Ed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed,Please thank everyone on Ballad-L for their sympathy.  Sorry if what follows
is a bit rough, but this is my first time arranging something like this.Condolences may be sent to:The Olson Family
101 East Deer Park Drive
Gaithersburg, MD 20877Or to me at [unmask], and I will relay them to my family.Those in the Washington area may wish to attend the memorial service.  If
so, please notify me in advance so I can gauge the number of attendees.  I'
ve booked a fairly small room, but it should be able to hold more people
than I'm currently expecting.  The tone will be fairly informal and it
should last about two hours.The service will begin at 3:30 PM on Friday, November 7, 2003
It will be held in Room A of the Bohrer Park Activity Center
Summit Hall Farm Park
506 South Frederick Avenue
Gaithersburg, MarylandDIRECTIONS:
? Located at 506 South frederick Avenue, just south of Gaithersburg High
School.
? From Frederick Avenue (Route 355) turn onto Education Boulevard (south of
Summit Avenue)
? Proceed down Education Boulevard to traffic circle.
? Go around circle and veer off to the left.
? You will see the Activity Center on your right.The Web Page for the Activity Center, with a map, may be found at:
http://www.ci.gaithersburg.md.us/poi/default.asp?POI_ID=844&TOC=1;28;844;Best Wishes,Ken

I guess someone has to break the silence.
The Traditional Song Forum is holding its next meeting on Sat 15th at
Gateshead Town Hall. Details are on the TSF website. Just type in Tradsong
and you should get it. The morning session is taken up with members'
current projects but the afternoon promises great things; Pete Woods is
leading a short forum on the dearth of Northern England collectors, Mike
Yates is giving a presentation on his latest collecting in the Scottish
Border region and Johnny Handle will be presenting The Farne Project on
North Eastern Archives. I've just heard that among the attenders will be
Louis Killen, Sandra kerr and Jill Pidd. Perhaps we should scrap the
members' forum and just have a sing!
Non members welcome but please let me or Martin Graebe know if you're
coming.
SteveG

Steve:It is a bit far for me to travel, but I wish you folks well.Santa Monica Ed  (Temperature 70-degrees F.)----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Gardham <[unmask]>
Date: Friday, November 7, 2003 11:23 am
Subject: TSF meeting> I guess someone has to break the silence.
> The Traditional Song Forum is holding its next meeting on Sat 15th at
> Gateshead Town Hall. Details are on the TSF website. Just type in Tradsong
> and you should get it. The morning session is taken up with members'
> current projects but the afternoon promises great things; Pete Woods is
> leading a short forum on the dearth of Northern England collectors, Mike
> Yates is giving a presentation on his latest collecting in the Scottish
> Border region and Johnny Handle will be presenting The Farne Project on
> North Eastern Archives. I've just heard that among the attenders will be
> Louis Killen, Sandra kerr and Jill Pidd. Perhaps we should scrap the
> members' forum and just have a sing!
> Non members welcome but please let me or Martin Graebe know if you're
> coming.
> SteveG
>

Steve,I would like to bring some books up.Could the Town Hall supply a table or two?Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gardham" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: TSF meeting> I guess someone has to break the silence.
> The Traditional Song Forum is holding its next meeting on Sat 15th at
> Gateshead Town Hall. Details are on the TSF website. Just type in Tradsong
> and you should get it. The morning session is taken up with members'
> current projects but the afternoon promises great things; Pete Woods is
> leading a short forum on the dearth of Northern England collectors, Mike
> Yates is giving a presentation on his latest collecting in the Scottish
> Border region and Johnny Handle will be presenting The Farne Project on
> North Eastern Archives. I've just heard that among the attenders will be
> Louis Killen, Sandra kerr and Jill Pidd. Perhaps we should scrap the
> members' forum and just have a sing!
> Non members welcome but please let me or Martin Graebe know if you're
> coming.
> SteveG
>