On Fri, 9 May 2003 20:02:26 -0500, Dan Goodman wrote:>"Rocking a Cradle That's None of Me Own"ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)One of my favorites.  It reminds me of another lovely mother-deserts-
family song, "Peggy and the Soldier" since I learned both from President
Taylor in the far old times.Thank you ALL.  Good selections.  Problem is how fast I have to sing to
get them all into the 15-minute setlet.Of course, this week I also sing a balladish song to celebrate Bulgarian,
Shepherd's & Herdsman's Day on May 6th annually.  From Herd (1776), even.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:16:40 -0600, John Mehlberg =^..^= wrote:>A sentiment is a type of toast which has the form "May you..." and then it
>usually goes on to express a *positive* sentiment or wish for a person.  A
>curse is a toast that expresses a *negative* sentiment.   I have a
>subsection of my toasting collection that is dedicated to curses.   Here is
>a 1917 curse/toast with variants:
>
>      Here's to the Kaiser, the son of a bitch,
>      May his balls drop off with the seven-year itch,
>      May his arse be pounded with a lump of leather
>      Till his arsehole can whistle "Britannia for Ever."
>
I've been keeping an eye out for something so long I've finally lost the
reference.  Memory declares a brief comment by Hamish Henderson (not, I
think in _Alias Mac_) that bawdy toasts were very common among the
Horseman's Word (a persisting secret society of NE Scotland farm workers
around horses - only song I know that even alludes to them is "Nicky
Tams.")But he didn't give and I've never found any examples of them.Not much help, John, but it's a lead, anyway.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 01:53:57PM -0400, Abby Sale wrote:> On Fri, 9 May 2003 20:02:26 -0500, Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> >"Rocking a Cradle That's None of Me Own"
>
> ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)
>
> One of my favorites.  It reminds me of another lovely mother-deserts-
> family song, "Peggy and the Soldier" since I learned both from President
> Taylor in the far old times.
>
> Thank you ALL.  Good selections.  Problem is how fast I have to sing to
> get them all into the 15-minute setlet.        Hmm ... I'm not sure where you could find the words and tune,
but I remember Sam Rizetta singing one which he composed about the
"Mother Trucker". Part of the chorus was:         "What made her give up pots and pans for a gearbox and a clutch
        leave a husband and five kids who love her very much?
        ... ...
        bring that mother trucker home!".        The explanation was that it was a reaction to too much country
music on the radio -- all that he could get where he was living. :-)        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Eureka!Oddly enough, what I (almost) remember was the fourth stanze as a stand-alone
poem.SONGS OF EDUCATION
Gilbert Keith ChestertonThe earth is a place on which England is found
And you find it however you twirl the globe round
For the spots are all red and the rest is all grey,
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Gibraltar’s a rock that you see very plain
And attached to its base is the district of Spain
And the island of Malta is marked farther on
Where some natives were known as the Knights of St. John.
Then Cyprus, and east to the Suez Canal
That was conquered by Dizzy and Rothschild his pal
With the sword of the Lord in the old English way;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Our principal imports come far as Cape Horn
For necessities, cocoa; for luxuries, corn;
Thus Brahmins are born for the rice fields, and thus
The Gods made the Greeks to grow currants for us.
Of earth’s other tributes are plenty to choose,
 Tobacco and petrol and Jazzing and Jews
The Jazzing will pass but the Jews they will stay;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Our principal exports, all labeled and packed
At the ends of the earth are delivered intact.
Our soap or our salmon can travel in tins
Between the two poles and as like as two pins.
So that Lancashire merchants whenever they like
Can water the beer of a man in Klondike
Or poison the meat of a man in Bombay;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.The day of St. George is a nasty affair
Which Russians and Greeks are permitted to share;
The day of Trafalgar is Spanish in name
And the Spaniards refuse to pronounce it the same.
But the Day of the Empire from Canada came
With Morden and Borden and Beaverbrook’s fame
And Saintly seraphical  souls such as they;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.dman it, greenhaus, you're persistent!dick greenhaus

Finally having a slow look through the George Kinloch pages at
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/reprints/KinlochBalladBook.html and this
is a very nice job.You make the good point, pointedly at me, eg, that one might easily
overlook Kinloch on the theory that everything good in there is to be
found in Child, anyway -- and that would be wrong since there are
many important non-ballad items in the THE BALLAD BOOK.  (Which might
explain why "Martin Said to His Man" is in Ballad Index, otherwise a
mystery.)It is a good job, Bob.  A lot of work and well annotated.  I got confused
looking for the index at the top instead of the bottom but I did find it.And I learned some stuff I was looking for, too.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

> ABBY SALE
> I've been keeping an eye out for something so long I've finally lost the
> reference.  Memory declares a brief comment by Hamish Henderson (not, I
> think in _Alias Mac_) that bawdy toasts were very common among the
> Horseman's Word (a persisting secret society of NE Scotland farm workers
> around horses - only song I know that even alludes to them is "Nicky
>Tams.")
>
> But he didn't give and I've never found any examples of them.
>
> Not much help, John, but it's a lead, anyway.JOHN MEHLBERG
G. Legman in his 1976 "Bawdy Monologues" article in the Southern Folklore
Quarterly gives some of toasts that Hamish Henderson had collected in 1956
but Legman does not give a reference for the quotations.  I assume that - as
of 1976 -  Henderson had not published his collection of toasts.   If anyone
knows if Henderson published these toasts, I would like to know where.On a different note, I have an "1827" Merry Muses of Caledonia that I
don't have the time to OCR.  If someone would want to convert this
Merry Muses, I will gladly mail all of the scanned pages on cd-rom
so that they can convert it.  I just ask for a copy of the OCR output.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Abby Sale" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Mother's Day songs> On Fri, 9 May 2003 20:02:26 -0500, Dan Goodman wrote:
>
> >"Rocking a Cradle That's None of Me Own"
>
> ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)
>
It's certainly in the Bert Lloyd version. An old gold mining town in NSW
from the mid 1800s -
now a ghost town, I think.Peter

Dear Paul,I've been singing Jimmie Driftwood's song for many years, and some changes
may have crept in without my meaning them to do so.  Here is pretty much what
I do."Father, oh dear Father,
    Get off your lazy bones:
Tomorrow I will marry
    My true love, Jimmy Jones.""Daughter, oh dear daughter,
    You'll have to find another;
You cannot marry Jimmy Jones,
    For he is your half-brother."(Spoken:)  So the poor girl moped around for a while, but then her girl
friend came in to talk to her, and she said "Honey, don't give up so easy!
There's lots of boys in town you ain't even met yet!  So let's go out and
meet some more boys!"  So they did, and the  first thing you know she came in
and talked to her father again:"Father, oh dear Father,
    I hope that yoiu won't mind,
But tomorrow I will marry
    My true love, Johnny Hines!""Daughter , oh dear daugher,
    You'll have to find another.
You cannot marry Johnny Hines,
    'Cause he is your half-brother!"(Spoken)  Well, if the poor girl was sad the first time, she was just about
broken-hearted this time. But her girl friend came in again and talked to
her.  She said: "Now, Honey, I'l  tell you what we're gonna do.  Next
Sundaywe'll get up real early and get on our hoirses and ride way over on
yonder mountain, where your Pappy ain't never been, and meet some more boys!"
 So they did:  they got up early that next Sunday morning and they rode 'way
over onto yonder mountain, and the first thing you know she was back again ,
saying:"Father, oh dear Father,
    I hope that you won't care,
'But tomorrow I will marry
    My true love, John O'Dare.""Daughgter, oh dear daughter,
    You'll have to find another:
You cannot marry John O'Dare,
    For he is your half-brother!"(Spoken) Well, this time the poor girl just didn't know what to do, so she
went right in and told her mother,all about it:(Different tune:)
"Mother, oh dear Mother,
    My poor heart is undone,
For every boy I love turns out
    To be my Daddy's son!""So the old lady thought about it for aminute, and she looked over at the old
man,  where he was settin' on a nail keg whittlin' on an axe-handle, and she
decided this was no time for delicacy, so she sung out loud and clear:(First tune again.)
"Daughter, oh dear Daughter,
    Go on and make your vow.
It ain't no sin for you're no kin
    To your Pappy anyhow!'
*******************************
Once about 25 ago, when Jimmie Driftwood and his wife Cleda were staying a
few days with us here in La Jolla, I asked him where that song had come from.
 He said "Well,  maybe I got it  from my Uncle--or maybe I made it up
myself.!  I can't remember!"Best regards,Sam
La Jolla, CA

It's a bit late, but (for next year):Never throw a lighted lamp at mother
I'm very sure
you  will not find another.
I know you wouldn't want to see
Ma Lit up like a Christmas tree
So never throw a lighted lamp at motherorDon't never trun rocks on yer mudder
Don't never trun rocks on her head;
Don't never trun rocks on yer mudder,
Trun bricks on yer fadder instead! (OK, I learned it on the streets of Brooklyn)dick greenhaus[unmask] wrote:> Dear Paul,
>
> I've been singing Jimmie Driftwood's song for many years, and some changes
> may have crept in without my meaning them to do so.  Here is pretty much what
> I do.
>
> "Father, oh dear Father,
>     Get off your lazy bones:
> Tomorrow I will marry
>     My true love, Jimmy Jones."
>
> "Daughter, oh dear daughter,
>     You'll have to find another;
> You cannot marry Jimmy Jones,
>     For he is your half-brother."
>
> (Spoken:)  So the poor girl moped around for a while, but then her girl
> friend came in to talk to her, and she said "Honey, don't give up so easy!
> There's lots of boys in town you ain't even met yet!  So let's go out and
> meet some more boys!"  So they did, and the  first thing you know she came in
> and talked to her father again:
>
> "Father, oh dear Father,
>     I hope that yoiu won't mind,
> But tomorrow I will marry
>     My true love, Johnny Hines!"
>
> "Daughter , oh dear daugher,
>     You'll have to find another.
> You cannot marry Johnny Hines,
>     'Cause he is your half-brother!"
>
> (Spoken)  Well, if the poor girl was sad the first time, she was just about
> broken-hearted this time. But her girl friend came in again and talked to
> her.  She said: "Now, Honey, I'l  tell you what we're gonna do.  Next
> Sundaywe'll get up real early and get on our hoirses and ride way over on
> yonder mountain, where your Pappy ain't never been, and meet some more boys!"
>  So they did:  they got up early that next Sunday morning and they rode 'way
> over onto yonder mountain, and the first thing you know she was back again ,
> saying:
>
> "Father, oh dear Father,
>     I hope that you won't care,
> 'But tomorrow I will marry
>     My true love, John O'Dare."
>
> "Daughgter, oh dear daughter,
>     You'll have to find another:
> You cannot marry John O'Dare,
>     For he is your half-brother!"
>
> (Spoken) Well, this time the poor girl just didn't know what to do, so she
> went right in and told her mother,all about it:
>
> (Different tune:)
> "Mother, oh dear Mother,
>     My poor heart is undone,
> For every boy I love turns out
>     To be my Daddy's son!"
>
> "So the old lady thought about it for aminute, and she looked over at the old
> man,  where he was settin' on a nail keg whittlin' on an axe-handle, and she
> decided this was no time for delicacy, so she sung out loud and clear:
>
> (First tune again.)
> "Daughter, oh dear Daughter,
>     Go on and make your vow.
> It ain't no sin for you're no kin
>     To your Pappy anyhow!'
> *******************************
> Once about 25 ago, when Jimmie Driftwood and his wife Cleda were staying a
> few days with us here in La Jolla, I asked him where that song had come from.
>  He said "Well,  maybe I got it  from my Uncle--or maybe I made it up
> myself.!  I can't remember!"
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sam
> La Jolla, CA

Buffy Sainte Marie also recorded a version in the 60's - she does not
give her source.  and a last name for Johnny is not given as far as I
can tellJane Keefer----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Stamler <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: Mother's Day songs> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan Friedman <[unmask]>
>
> <<The verse you quoted from Johnny Be Fair is a variant from the
two
> versions
> we have in the Digital Tradition.  Could we see the rest of your
version,
> please? >>
>
> Alas, that's about all I remember. I'm pretty sure I picked it up
from
> Jimmie Driftwood, but don't know where or if he recorded it (my
memory is of
> seeing him at the Old Town School of Folk Music sometime in the
1970s, and I
> didn't know it but I was in the process of coming down with the
flu, so the
> memory is hazy). However, the other choruses ran something like,
>
> Daughter, oh dear daughter
> (Something, something, something)
> You cannot marry Johnny (____)
> For he is your half-brother.
>
> The blank is a name -- Grey, Brown, Smith, something like that.
Sorry for
> the vagueness!
>
> Peace,
> Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Dear Dick Greenhaus,
thank you so!!!
Yours Barbara
At 15:46 10.05.2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Eureka!
>
>Oddly enough, what I (almost) remember was the fourth stanze as a stand-alone
>poem.
>
>SONGS OF EDUCATION
>Gilbert Keith Chesterton
>
>The earth is a place on which England is found
>And you find it however you twirl the globe round
>For the spots are all red and the rest is all grey,
>And that is the meaning of Empire Day.
>
>Gibraltar’s a rock that you see very plain
>And attached to its base is the district of Spain
>And the island of Malta is marked farther on
>Where some natives were known as the Knights of St. John.
>Then Cyprus, and east to the Suez Canal
>That was conquered by Dizzy and Rothschild his pal
>With the sword of the Lord in the old English way;
>And that is the meaning of Empire Day.
>
>Our principal imports come far as Cape Horn
>For necessities, cocoa; for luxuries, corn;
>Thus Brahmins are born for the rice fields, and thus
>The Gods made the Greeks to grow currants for us.
>Of earth’s other tributes are plenty to choose,
>  Tobacco and petrol and Jazzing and Jews
>The Jazzing will pass but the Jews they will stay;
>And that is the meaning of Empire Day.
>
>Our principal exports, all labeled and packed
>At the ends of the earth are delivered intact.
>Our soap or our salmon can travel in tins
>Between the two poles and as like as two pins.
>So that Lancashire merchants whenever they like
>Can water the beer of a man in Klondike
>Or poison the meat of a man in Bombay;
>And that is the meaning of Empire Day.
>
>The day of St. George is a nasty affair
>Which Russians and Greeks are permitted to share;
>The day of Trafalgar is Spanish in name
>And the Spaniards refuse to pronounce it the same.
>But the Day of the Empire from Canada came
>With Morden and Borden and Beaverbrook’s fame
>And Saintly seraphical  souls such as they;
>And that is the meaning of Empire Day.
>
>
>dman it, greenhaus, you're persistent!
>
>dick greenhausBarbara Boock, Bibliothekarin
Deutsches Volksliedarchiv
Arbeitsstelle für internationale Volksliedforschung
Silberbachstr. 13
79100 Freiburg
Tel 0761/7050314
Fax 0761/7050328
http://www.dva.uni-freiburg.de/

>> From: Susan Friedman <[unmask]>
>>
>> <<The verse you quoted from Johnny Be Fair is a variant from the
>two
>> versions
>> we have in the Digital Tradition.At least four versions in there:
"Elma Turl" - from "Mike Cross: The Best of the Funny Stuff
"Johnny Be Fair" per Ste. Marie
"Shame and Scandal" by: Donaldson, Brown
"Madam La Marquise" attributed to Robert W. Serviceand "Mixed Up Family" is referenced but apparently not included.BTW, I wound up just singing "Cruel Mother" after all.  I do like that
song.For today, it's Limerick Day re Ed Lear's birthday 5/12/1812 (d1888).  I
actually do only one limerick about a feller dancing the Fandango on
skates.  On the anniversary of the first public (but wildly impractical)
demonstration of roller skates.  The inventer was also a musician who
played violin while rolling towards his disaster.  This led me to found
the Folking Roly Rounders (the official, nation-wide organization for
those who sing/play folk songs while rollerskating.)I've never seen (Legman notwithstanding, to my recollection, anyway) a
bawdy limerick reliably attributable to Lear.  I feel there _must_ be but
I don't know any.Sid Taylor sends and I heartily pass on this tragic new
ballad-of-resistance & political activism by Dana Lyons:
Cows With Guns  <http://www.shagrat.net/Html/cows.htm> (It's Flash &  will
take a long time to load if you have a modem, but well worth it.)-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:05:14AM -0400, Abby Sale wrote:        [ ... ]> For today, it's Limerick Day re Ed Lear's birthday 5/12/1812 (d1888).  I
> actually do only one limerick about a feller dancing the Fandango on
> skates.  On the anniversary of the first public (but wildly impractical)
> demonstration of roller skates.  The inventer was also a musician who
> played violin while rolling towards his disaster.        And you don't quote it?> Sid Taylor sends and I heartily pass on this tragic new
> ballad-of-resistance & political activism by Dana Lyons:
> Cows With Guns  <http://www.shagrat.net/Html/cows.htm> (It's Flash &  will
> take a long time to load if you have a modem, but well worth it.)        I've got flash disabled for security reasons, so there is little
point to me visiting there.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi!        I hope everyone had a good week and the bidders were sucessful.
Here is the latest list.        SONGSTERS        2174225174 - Boyd's Songster And San Francisco Pictorial, 1868,
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                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Send reply to:          "Daphne Drewello" <[unmask]>
From:                   "Daphne Drewello" <[unmask]>
To:                     "Dan Goodman" <[unmask]>, <[unmask]>
Copies to:              <[unmask]>
Subject:                Re:      ?re:  Empire-day
Date sent:              Mon, 12 May 2003 11:34:15 -0500On May 7, Dan Goodman posted this message from Barbara Boock> > I am looking for a text critizising the British empire with the lines:
"To
> > poison the meat of the men in clondike and to water the beer of the men
in
> > Bombay and that is the meaning of Empire day" The title of the text is
> > "Empire day" and might be written by Chesterton._The Collected Poems of G.K. Chesterton_ (Dodd, Mead & Co., c1932),
pp 93-94:SONGS OF EDUCATION:II. Geography.Form 17955301, Sub-Section ZThe earth is a place on which England is found,
And you find it however you twirl the globe round;
For the spots are all red and the rest is all grey;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Gibralter's a rock that you see very plain,
And attached to its base is the district of Spain.
And the island of Malta is marked further on,
Where some natives were known as the Knights of St. John.
Then Cyprus, and east to the Suez Canal,
That was conquered by Dizzy and Rothchild his pal
With the Sword of the Lord in the old English way;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Our principal imports come far as Cape Horn;
For necessities, cocoa; for luxuries, corn;
Thus Brahmins are born for the rice-field, and thus,
The Gods made the Greeks to grow currants for us;
Of earths's other tributes are plenty to choose,
Tobacco and petrol and Jazzing and Jews:
The Jazzing will pass but the Jews they will stay;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.Our principal exports, all labelled and packed,
At the ends of the earth are delivered intact:
Our soap or our salmon can travel in tins
Between the two poles and as like as two pins;
So that Lancashire merchants whenever they like
Can water the beer of a man in Klondike
Or poison the meat of a man in Bombay;
And that is the meaning of Empire Day.The day of St. George is a musty affair
Which Russsians and Greeks are permitted to share;
The day of Trafalgar is Spanish in name
And the Spaniards refuse to pronounce it the same;
But the day of the Empire from Canada came
With Morden and Borden and Beaverbrook's fame
And saintly seraphical souls such as they:
And that is the meaing of Empire Day.Daphne Drewello
Alfred Dickey Library
Jamestown, ND------- End of forwarded message -------
Stumpers is a list primarily for librarians faced with questions they
can't answer.  These range from ordinary to "Where can I buy clothes for
plaster geese?"

On Mon, 12 May 2003 12:47:43 -0400, DoN. Nichols wrote:>        And you don't quote it?Sorry.  Actually, the limerick's ordinary but the historical story
_really_ got me.Happy! entry for September 17th:The first documented inventor of a roller skate was John Joseph Merlin,
born September 17, 1735, in the city of Huys, Belgium. He was a well-known
maker of musical instruments and other mechanical inventions.According to a contemporary of Merlin's, one of his inventions was a pair
of skates "contrived to run on small metallic wheels.  Supplied with a
pair of these and a violin, he mixed in the motley group of one of the
celebrated Mrs. Cornely's masquerades at Carlisle-house, Soho-square
[probably in 1760]; when, not having provided the means of retarding his
velocity, or commanding its direction, he impelled himself against a
mirror, of more than five hundred pounds' value, dashed it to atoms, broke
his instrument to pieces, and wounded himself most severely."
[Quoted from Michael Zaidman, Director and Curator of the National Roller
Skating Museum, Lincoln, NE 68506: http://www.iisa.org/gug/history.html ]Indeed, from the beginning and still today, starting skates was never a
problem; _stopping_ them was.        There was a young sailor named Bates
        Who danced the fandango on skates,
                But a fall on his cutlass
                Rendered him nut-less,
        And practically useless on dates.From a file of 661 ribald limericks I got off a BBS in 1992.  Sadly, it's
not attributed.  It's mildly interesting that several of them are also in
the above-noted book.and...might as well give it,Happy! entry for the 12th:             Happy Limerick Day!
        Ed Lear b5/12/1812/(d1888)        An avant-garde bard named McNamiter,
        Had a tool of enormous diameter.
          But it wasn't the size
          Brought tears to her eyes,
          'Twas the rhythm--dactylic hexameter!          From _Ribald Limericks_, Discovery Books (San Francisco) ©1961.(dac.tyl; Middle English dactile, from Latin dactylus, from Greek
daktylos, literally, finger; from the fact that the first of three
syllables is the longest, like the joints of the finger;
Date: 14th century: a metrical foot consisting of one long and two short
syllables or of one stressed and two unstressed syllables (as in tenderly)
- dac.tyl.ic /dak-'ti-lik/ adjective or noun)It's not that this is so special an example of the ancient folk art - it's
just that the sole source of my income one month of 1961 was selling this
paricular booklet from bar to bar in North Beach, San Francisco.  Didn't
actually earn much -- did learn that one can live on free beer for quite a
while.  (I don't _really_ know that Lear wrote this particular one.)
I spoke to the compiler, my old friend Jerry Kamstra, last year.  In his
life and 4 or 5 books, it was his biggest seller.  Ran to 100,000 copies.
He's even still got the plates for it.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>       There was a young sailor named Bates
        Who danced the fandango on skates,
                But a fall on his cutlass
                Rendered him nut-less,
        And practically useless on dates.Having danced, and called, the fandango, I have my deepest sympathy for poor
Bates. The skipping hey in the last B-part is probably what did him in.Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

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Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the person of
Abby Sale, writes:>         There was a young sailor named Bates
>         Who danced the fandango on skates,
>                 But a fall on his cutlass
>                 Rendered him nut-less,
>         And practically useless on dates.
>
> From a file of 661 ribald limericks I got off a BBS in 1992.  Sadly,
> it's not attributed.  It's mildly interesting that several of them
> are also in the above-noted book.This is No. 1132 in Legman's first volume, which dates it to 1944.It is unusual for the author a of limerick of *that* kind to be known.
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  There is an obvious replacement for people who act like  :||
||:  badly programmed computers.                              :||

On Wed, 14 May 2003 11:59:33 EDT, [unmask] wrote:>In a message dated 5/10/2003 1:02:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>[unmask] writes:
>
>> ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)
>>
>
>I don't know where it is, but the version that A.L.Lloyd popularized (I am a
>young maiden, I come from Kiandra) is from Australia.Thanks.  That's even worse.  Peter Thorpe gave me the New South
Wales/Lloyd connection and I did find it at MapQuest.  I've not heard
Lloyd sing it, however.  It's not on the only Au record I have of him,
_Australian Bush Songs_ and I don't readily find it in either Meredith FS
of Aus books.I'd always taken it as an English/Amer song but now I see that was a bit
off.  :-(    I had in mind "The Old Man's Lament" in Lomax, _FS or N Amer_
but I just took it as a USian version and never thought anything special
except that "Kiandra," a favorite of mine (too) was wide spread.So I have a look now in Lomax.  It's song #192 and it turns out Alan got
it from the great Irish piper, Seamus Ennis at a ceilidh in Dublin in
1950!The song is part of a small cycle including "Run Along You Little Dogies"
(a precurser to "Git Along") including cattle-driving verses but but a
Anglo/Gaelic chorus of 'baby, lie easy...rockin the cradle.'  Alan says
that John got it from a gipsy woman in the early 1900's in Texas.  I think
I have John White singing that under some other title.He also gives a short Gaelic piece, which he takes to be the origin.
The song now, he says, makes more sense relating to the common practice or
wedding pretty young girls to rich old men but then recognizing the girls
might not always be satisfied with the arrangement.On collecting the song in the West of Ireland, Ennis' informants suggested
it related to Mary wedded to the elderly Joseph.So, does Lloyd sing "Kiandra" as an Au song?  Would you give a few more
words to it"  I know I've never heard is from the female side.>I am a young maiden,-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

----- Original Message -----
From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>>In a message dated 5/10/2003 1:02:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>[unmask] writes:
>
>> ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)
>>
>
>I don't know where it is, but the version that A.L.Lloyd popularized (I am
a
>young maiden, I come from Kiandra) is from Australia.<<Thanks.  That's even worse.  Peter Thorpe gave me the New South
Wales/Lloyd connection and I did find it at MapQuest.  I've not heard
Lloyd sing it, however.  It's not on the only Au record I have of him,
_Australian Bush Songs_ and I don't readily find it in either Meredith FS
of Aus books.>>Lloyd's version was on the Topic LP "First Person", and was reissued on the
Larrikin CD, "The Old Bush Songs", which may or may not still be in print.And the words are from a male point a view; the actual opening line is "I am
a young man from the town of Kiandra". I don't remember the whole song, but
another verse is something like:When I'm at home my wife's on the ran-tan
On the ran-tan with some other young man
She's out drinkin' and cursin' while I'm at home nursin'
Nursin' a baby that's none of me own.(ch.) Oh dear, rue the day ever I married
How I wish I was single again
With the weepin' and wailin' and rockin' the cradle
Rockin' a baby that's none of me own.Peace,
Paul

I have found six versions (basically the same) of Kiandra song. Two are
called the Town of Kinandra. One by Wongawill Australian Tradition and
one by The MCalamns Listen to the Heart. There  are no notes on the
McCalamn CD. Wongawill says the following:Also known as The Wee One and a variant of Rocking the Cradle, this
unusual and sentimental song is about a man in the town of Kinadra,
NSW, being left with a baby that is not even his own, while his wife
runs off with another man. A similar version was collected by John
Meredith from Sally Sloane of Bathurst, who learned it from Bob Vaughan
of Aberdeen, NSW. "Flash" is a term which refers too things gaudy or
ostentatiousThe third version is by A.L Lloyd on his CD The Old Bush Songs
(Larrikin) and is called Rocking the Cradle. The notes are as follows:  It seems to have begun life in Ireland, originally perhaps as a
lullaby, purporting to be sung to the Christ Child by disgruntled
Joseph (in mystery plays and carols Joseph is often presented as a dour
peasant very suspicious of the parentage of his wife's baby) It has
undergone many changes, as a cowboy song in the USA and a mildly bawdy
piece among students everywhere in the English- speaking world, besides
flourishing in a number of variants (mostly deriving from the same
broadside print) among folk singers. Our version here is substantially
that sung by an outstanding Australian singer, Mrs Sally Slone, of
Teralba, NSW. Mrs Slone has a  large  stock of family songs  many of
them inherited from her grandmother who came to Australia from Co.
Kerry in the 1840's, but Rocking the Cradle is not one of those, for
she learnt it in her young days from a neighbour in the small-farming
country around Parkes. She begins the song: I am a young man cut down
in my blosssom'. I altered it to say "I am a young man from the town of
Kiandra' because I knew a Kiandra fellow whose plight was similar to
the man in the song.Finbar and Eddie Fury have a version  on The Dawning of the Day. Joe
Heaney on The Road from Connemara  and the Ian Campbell Folk Group  on
This is ... And across the HillsOn Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 01:37  PM, Paul Stamler wrote:> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>
>
>> In a message dated 5/10/2003 1:02:56 PM Central Standard Time,
>> [unmask] writes:
>>
>>> ANY idea where Kiandra is? (Only in the Brit. versions, I think.)
>>>
>>
>> I don't know where it is, but the version that A.L.Lloyd popularized
>> (I am
> a
>> young maiden, I come from Kiandra) is from Australia.
>
> <<Thanks.  That's even worse.  Peter Thorpe gave me the New South
> Wales/Lloyd connection and I did find it at MapQuest.  I've not heard
> Lloyd sing it, however.  It's not on the only Au record I have of him,
> _Australian Bush Songs_ and I don't readily find it in either Meredith
> FS
> of Aus books.>>
>
> Lloyd's version was on the Topic LP "First Person", and was reissued
> on the
> Larrikin CD, "The Old Bush Songs", which may or may not still be in
> print.
>
> And the words are from a male point a view; the actual opening line is
> "I am
> a young man from the town of Kiandra". I don't remember the whole
> song, but
> another verse is something like:
>
> When I'm at home my wife's on the ran-tan
> On the ran-tan with some other young man
> She's out drinkin' and cursin' while I'm at home nursin'
> Nursin' a baby that's none of me own.
>
> (ch.) Oh dear, rue the day ever I married
> How I wish I was single again
> With the weepin' and wailin' and rockin' the cradle
> Rockin' a baby that's none of me own.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On Thu, May 15, 2003 at 02:51:23PM -0400, George Madaus wrote:
>
> I have found six versions (basically the same) of Kiandra song. Two are
> called the Town of Kinandra. One by Wongawill Australian Tradition and
> one by The MCalamns Listen to the Heart. There  are no notes on the
> McCalamn CD. Wongawill says the following:
>
> Also known as The Wee One and a variant of Rocking the Cradle, this
> unusual and sentimental song is about a man in the town of Kinadra,
> NSW, being left with a baby that is not even his own, while his wife
> runs off with another man. A similar version was collected by John
> Meredith from Sally Sloane of Bathurst, who learned it from Bob Vaughan
> of Aberdeen, NSW. "Flash" is a term which refers too things gaudy or
> ostentatiousRon Edwards in The Big Book of Australian Folk Song has an index in the
back on every Australian folk song published as of 1976. He has two
sources listed for this song under the title "The Wee One". The first is
Folk Songs of Australia by Meredith and Anderson published in 1967 and
containing transcriptions "from field tapes made by Meredith in Sydney
and surrounding areas." The second is an issue of Singabout published by
the Bush Music Club of Sydney.I sounds like Meredith's field collecting is probably an primary source
of this version of the song.                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

> From a file of 661 ribald limericks I got off a BBS in 1992.  Sadly,
> it's not attributed.On Wed, 14 May 2003 13:22:07 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote:>This is No. 1132 in Legman's first volume, which dates it to 1944.
>
>It is unusual for the author a of limerick of *that* kind to be known.
>--
:-) No, I meant that the BBS file, itself, was unattributed.  The original
was dated 1/1/87.  They may _all_ be from Legman as far as I know.  Nor is
it any surprise that any two collections of bawdy limericks should share a
large percentage of them.  I'll e-mail it to you if you like.  Looking now
there's only 313 items.  I can't explain that.Do you mean that Legman dates this particular example to 1944?-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Re Oh Dear, Rue the Day
or Old Man Rockin' the Cradle
or Rocking The Cradle
or Old Man of Kiandra (Lloyd-Australia)
or The Old Man's Lament (Ennis - West of Ireland)
or The Wee One (Meredith-Australia)
or Aidal O' Boy (Ireland)
or Town of Kinandra (sung by Wongawill Australian Tradition
                                also The MCalamns-Australia)On Thu, 15 May 2003 16:33:08 EDT, [unmask] wrote:>  If you are willing to be patient, I will happily send you an MP3 recording
>of Lloyd's performance.  Alternatively I can transcribe the text, but it will
>be a while before I have the time to do it.  Perhaps someone else already has
>it.I appreciate it.  If (as seems likely) it's the same as Paul quoted then I
don't need the words.  I learned this and a bunch more from President and
(the later to be) Mrs Taylor in Edinburgh about 1967.  (Ergo, the
"Kiandra" version had made its way to Scotland by then.) He was secretly
English and got many from Lloyd and Coppers.  We cross-shared a huge
number of songs there but never much got to origins.I'd be very grateful for the MP3, though.  I do have a tape of _First
Person_ but I can't find it today.Ok. As I get a possible connection now.  I think.Lloyd learns the song in Australia (or gets it from Meredith) and gets his
research on it from Lomax.  (his progression on it is _very_ similar to
Lomax'.)  He may have it from Mrs Sally Slone who learned it in her young
days from a neighbour.Meredith, although he got many songs from her, he collected this one from
Bob Vaughan.Both begin: 'I am a young man cut down in my blosssom' but both continue
pretty much as version A, below.It is _Lloyd_ who introduces 'Kiandra' to the song, per George's quote of
Lloyd's _The Old Bush Songs_ notes. "I altered it to say 'I am a young man
from the town of Kiandra.'"Dolores gives us the time frame that first Australian publication is
likely Meredith, 1967 but collected some years earlier.It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!
In Irish versions, he is an old man.  It is important to the 'feeling' of
the song and to the oral tradition it carries that he be old and she
young.Jane Keefer gives:
Hinton, Sam. Old Man Rockin' the Cradle, Real McCoy, Decca DL 857 [or
8579] LP (196?), cut# 7. [but apparently released 1957]
A west Texas version???????????????For the record, the primary two versions:A. "Usual" version
I am a young (an old) man from the town of Kiandra
I married a young woman to comfort my home
But she goes out and leaves me and cruely deceives me
And leaves me with a baby that's none o' me own        Oh dear, rue the day ever I married
        How I wish I was single again
        With the weeping and wailing and rocking the cradle
        And rocking a baby that's none of me ownWhile I'm at work, me wife's on the rantan
On the rantan with some other young man
Oh, she's drinking and swearing while I'm at home caring
And rocking a baby that's none of me ownNow all ye young men with a fancy to marry
Be sure you leave them flash gals alone
Or by the Lord Harry, the girl that you'll marry
Will leave you with a baby that's none o' your ownB. And a common Irish version aka Aidal O' Boy (especially lilting chorus)
Ennis' collected version (in Lomax) follows the usual 3-verse format but
still much the same as this.On a bright summer's evening I chanced to go roving
Down by the clear river I rollicked along.
I heard an old man making sad lamentation;
He was rocking the cradle and the child not his own.cho:    Hi ho, hi ho, my laddie lie aisy
        For perhaps your own daddy might never be known.
        I'm sitting and sighing and rocking the cradle,
        And nursin' the baby that's none of my own.When first that I married your inconstant mother
I thought myself lucky to be blessed with a wife.
But for my misfortune, sure I was mistaken
She's proved both a curse and a plague on my life.She goes out every night to a ball or a party
And leaves me here rockin' the cradle alone.
The innocent laddie he calls me his daddy
But little he knows that he's none of my own.Now come all ye young men that's inclined to get married
Take my advice and let the women alone.
For by the Lord Harry, if ever you marry
They'll leave you with a baby that's none of your own.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

At 8:35 AM -0400 5/16/03, Abby Sale wrote:>Ok. As I get a possible connection now.  I think.
>
>Lloyd learns the song in Australia (or gets it from Meredith) and gets his
>research on it from Lomax.  (his progression on it is _very_ similar to
>Lomax'.)  He may have it from Mrs Sally Slone who learned it in her young
>days from a neighbour.
>
>Meredith, although he got many songs from her, he collected this one from
>Bob Vaughan.
>You're muddying the water again, Abby. As George Madaus points out in
an earlier post (the only time I find Bob Vaughan's name mentioned in
this thread), Bob Vaughan was Sally Sloane's source for this song.
Meredith got it from her.The song (from Lloyd) was well known on the English folk scene in the
early 60s. Lloyd's "First Person" came out in 64 or 65 - the very
popular Ian Campbell folk group also recorded the Kiandra version,
also in 64 I think.John Roberts.

John
The Ian Campbell record was called Across the Hills was done in 1963
re-issued on a CD 1996.
I think the last part of my response may not have circulated. So here
it is again apologies if its a repeat:
The third version is by A.L Lloyd on his CD The Old Bush Songs
(Larrikin) and is called Rocking the Cradle. The notes are as follows:
It seems to have begun life in Ireland, originally perhaps as a
lullaby, purporting to be sung to the Christ Child by disgruntled
Joseph (in mystery plays and carols Joseph is often presented as a dour
peasant very suspicious of the parentage of his wife's baby) It has
undergone many changes, as a cowboy song in the USA and a mildly bawdy
piece among students everywhere in the English- speaking world, besides
flourishing in a number of variants (mostly deriving from the same
broadside print) among folk singers. Our version here is substantially
that sung by an outstanding Australian singer, Mrs Sally Slone, of
Teralba, NSW. Mrs Slone has a  large  stock of family songs  many of
them inherited from her grandmother who came to Australia from Co.
Kerry in the 1840's, but Rocking the Cradle is not one of those, for
she learnt it in her young days from a neighbour in the small-farming
country around Parkes. She begins the song: I am a young man cut down
in my blosssom'. I altered it to say "I am a young man from the town of
Kiandra' because I knew a Kiandra fellow whose plight was similar to
the man in the song.
Finbar and Eddie Fury have a version  on The Dawning of the Day. Joe
Heaney on The Road from Connemara  and the Ian Campbell Folk Group  on
Arcoss the Hills
GeorgeOn Friday, May 16, 2003, at 02:01  PM, John Roberts wrote:> At 8:35 AM -0400 5/16/03, Abby Sale wrote:
>
>> Ok. As I get a possible connection now.  I think.
>>
>> Lloyd learns the song in Australia (or gets it from Meredith) and
>> gets his
>> research on it from Lomax.  (his progression on it is _very_ similar
>> to
>> Lomax'.)  He may have it from Mrs Sally Slone who learned it in her
>> young
>> days from a neighbour.
>>
>> Meredith, although he got many songs from her, he collected this one
>> from
>> Bob Vaughan.
>>
>
>
> You're muddying the water again, Abby. As George Madaus points out in
> an earlier post (the only time I find Bob Vaughan's name mentioned in
> this thread), Bob Vaughan was Sally Sloane's source for this song.
> Meredith got it from her.
>
> The song (from Lloyd) was well known on the English folk scene in the
> early 60s. Lloyd's "First Person" came out in 64 or 65 - the very
> popular Ian Campbell folk group also recorded the Kiandra version,
> also in 64 I think.
>
> John Roberts.

On Fri, 16 May 2003 14:01:59 -0400, John Roberts wrote:>>Meredith, although he got many songs from her, he collected this one from
>>Bob Vaughan.
>
>You're muddying the water again, Abby.Wouldn't surprise me.  I need a vacation.  A very, very long one.>As George Madaus points out in
>an earlier post (the only time I find Bob Vaughan's name mentioned in
>this thread), Bob Vaughan was Sally Sloane's source for this song.
>Meredith got it from her.In _F S of Au_ vol I, p.168 the note only says "learned from Bob Vaughan"
but it's certainly within the Sally Sloane section of songs.  I guess it's
called 'jumping to conclusions.'
>
>The song (from Lloyd) was well known on the English folk scene in the
>early 60s. Lloyd's "First Person" came out in 64 or 65 - the very
>popular Ian Campbell folk group also recorded the Kiandra version,
>also in 64 I think.Well there I'd said
>It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!It still seems that it was Lloyd that added 'Kiandra' and brought the song
to England.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

At 4:38 PM -0400 5/16/03, Abby Sale wrote:>It still seems that it was Lloyd that added 'Kiandra' and brought the song
>to England.
>Yup.
JR

-----Original Message-----
From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>
>Ok. As I get a possible connection now.  I think.
>
>Lloyd learns the song in Australia (or gets it from Meredith) and gets his
>research on it from Lomax.  (his progression on it is _very_ similar to
>Lomax'.)  He may have it from Mrs Sally Slone who learned it in her young
>days from a neighbour.
>
>Meredith, although he got many songs from her, he collected this one from
>Bob Vaughan.
>
>Both begin: 'I am a young man cut down in my blosssom' but both continue
>pretty much as version A, below.
>
>It is _Lloyd_ who introduces 'Kiandra' to the song, per George's quote of
>Lloyd's _The Old Bush Songs_ notes. "I altered it to say 'I am a young man
>from the town of Kiandra.'"
>
>Dolores gives us the time frame that first Australian publication is
>likely Meredith, 1967 but collected some years earlier.Lloyd's recording on "First Person" dates from 1966, so the fit is
approximately right.[snip]>Jane Keefer gives:
>Hinton, Sam. Old Man Rockin' the Cradle, Real McCoy, Decca DL 857 [or
>8579] LP (196?), cut# 7. [but apparently released 1957]
>A west Texas version???????????????Probably East Texas, if it's Sam. But note these entries in the Ballad
Index, including the Randolph one, not that far from East Texas:REFERENCES (6 citations):
Randolph 393, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (1 text, 1 tune)
Warner 166, "Show Me the Man Who Never Done Wrong (or, Rocking the Baby to
Sleep)" (1 text, 1 tune -- a curious version in which it appears at first
that it is the woman, not the man, who is betrayed)
Meredith/Anderson, pp. 168-169, "The Wee One"; p. 266, "Rock All Our Babies"
(2 texts, 2 tunes)
Kennedy 212, "Rocking the Cradle" (1 text, 1 tune)
Lomax-FSNA 192, "The Old Man's Lament" (1 text, 1 tune); also 190, "Run
Along, You Little Dogies" (1 text, 1 tune, mostly "Get Along Little Dogies"
but with a chorus partly from this piece!)
DT, ROCKCRAD ROCKCRA2
RECORDINGS:
A. L. Lloyd, "Rocking the Cradle" (on Lloyd2, Lloyd4)
Uncle Dave Macon, "Tossing the Baby So High" (Vocalion 5013, 1926)
Neil Morris, "Rock All the Babies to Sleep" (on LomaxCD1707)
Charlie & Bud Newman, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (OKeh 45431, 1930)
Riley Puckett, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Columbia 107-D, 1924)
George Reneau, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Vocalion 14997, 1925)
Jimmie Rodgers, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor 23721, 1932; Regal
Zonophone [UK] MR-2200, 1936; rec. 1930)
Dave Turner [pseud. for Dick Parman], "Rock All Our Babies To Sleep"
(Supertone 9374, 1929)
Fay & Jay Walker, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Broadway 8093, c. 1925)As "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep", a version of the song seems to have been
widespread among early country performers in the USA, with the earliest
being Riley Puckett, as is often the case.Peace,
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: George Madaus <[unmask]>>The third version is by A.L Lloyd on his CD The Old Bush Songs
>(Larrikin) and is called Rocking the Cradle.And just to clarify further, the "Old Bush Songs" (Larrikin) recording of
this song is a reissue of the one from "First Person" (1966, Topic). Most of
that CD came from his various Topic LPs, from what I can tell. A couple may
have been drawn from the Tradition LP of Australian songs he made in the
1950s.Peace,
Paul

Can add a few additional recordings to the list previously provided:Charlie Newman, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (OKeh 45072, 1926)
Phil Reeve & Ernest Moody, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor, unissued, Feb. 1927)
Phil Reeve & Ernest Moody, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor 20929, Aug. 1927)
Bud Thompson, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep"(Edison, 51871, 1926)
Binkley Brothers' Dixie Clodhoppers "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor, unissued, 1928)
Leake County Revelers (Columbia, 15353-D, 1928)Also some additions and corrections:Fay & The Jay Walkers, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Broadway 8093, 1928)
        The Paramount issue of the record was credited to Fay & Jay Walker, the Broadway issue to The Bums.Dave Turner [pseud. for Dick Parman], "Rock All Our Babies To Sleep"(Supertone 9374, 1929)
                Also issued by Gennett with credit to Dick Parham, and twice on Champion with credits to Amos Neal (1929) and 'Doc' Roberts (1935)>
>

On Fri, 16 May 2003 00:06:13 -0500, Paul Stamler wrote:>Riley Puckett, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Columbia 107-D, 1924)>Jimmie Rodgers, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor 23721, 1932; Regal
>Zonophone [UK] MR-2200, 1936; rec. 1930)Great!  Song did get around, then.There's a full Real Player of Rodgers doing this at
http://www.honkingduck.com/BAZ/baz_one.php?req=DATE&pg=9Very likely it's highly similar to Puckett.  If I get this right (and I'm
beginning to wonder if I'll ever do that again) MusicWeb Ency believes the
Puckett recording was not only his first but also thought to be first to
yodel on a record.Hunter has a much evolved text & tune from 1969 at
http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0830/.I guess it's a natural theme for country music -- no trains, but
everything else required.  Maybe it's the actual benchmark country song!But even more surprising to me is the additional text Ballad Index has for
Meredith/Anderson.  The text is nearly identical to Rodgers and may have
been "an inheritance left by Californians in the Gulgong goldfields."
Singer Herb Tattersall also does "Old Dan Tucker" and his brother does
"Little Rosewood Casket."  So there's the song reentering Australia.   The
connection to "Rocking the Cradle" for this tree is not immediately
obvious but certainly clear once pointed out by Paul and Ballad Index.So where does country music get it?   Anyone have 'Randolph, Ozark
Folksongs, III-393 Rock All Our Babies To Sleep?'  (I only have the
Unprintables.)-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

While it doesn't add much just for the record Fred McCormick in Joe
Heaney: A Life in Song in the notes to the Topic  CD The Road from
Connemara. Offers this: "A good portion of [Heaney's] English language
songs were learned in Carna as well. For the most part these were
importations from the english speaking world at large. It is not
surprising to find the Bonny Boy and The Old Man Rocking the Cradle
amongst the . Both songs must have had a strong appeal in a land where
arranged marriage, often between people of disparate age groups, was
the normGeorge
On Saturday, May 17, 2003, at 12:34  PM, Abby Sale wrote:> On Fri, 16 May 2003 00:06:13 -0500, Paul Stamler wrote:
>
>> Riley Puckett, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Columbia 107-D, 1924)
>
>> Jimmie Rodgers, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor 23721, 1932;
>> Regal
>> Zonophone [UK] MR-2200, 1936; rec. 1930)
>
> Great!  Song did get around, then.
>
> There's a full Real Player of Rodgers doing this at
> http://www.honkingduck.com/BAZ/baz_one.php?req=DATE&pg=9
>
> Very likely it's highly similar to Puckett.  If I get this right (and
> I'm
> beginning to wonder if I'll ever do that again) MusicWeb Ency believes
> the
> Puckett recording was not only his first but also thought to be first
> to
> yodel on a record.
>
> Hunter has a much evolved text & tune from 1969 at
> http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0830/.
>
> I guess it's a natural theme for country music -- no trains, but
> everything else required.  Maybe it's the actual benchmark country
> song!
>
> But even more surprising to me is the additional text Ballad Index has
> for
> Meredith/Anderson.  The text is nearly identical to Rodgers and may
> have
> been "an inheritance left by Californians in the Gulgong goldfields."
> Singer Herb Tattersall also does "Old Dan Tucker" and his brother does
> "Little Rosewood Casket."  So there's the song reentering Australia.
> The
> connection to "Rocking the Cradle" for this tree is not immediately
> obvious but certainly clear once pointed out by Paul and Ballad Index.
>
> So where does country music get it?   Anyone have 'Randolph, Ozark
> Folksongs, III-393 Rock All Our Babies To Sleep?'  (I only have the
> Unprintables.)
>
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> -- -
>                   I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                         Boycott South Carolina!
>         http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Hunter has a much evolved text & tune from 1969 at
http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/maxhunter/0830/.The text is much as Rodgers but the chorus seems earlierHally-o, rock-a-bye-baby
Toss'in th baby, ever so high
Hally-o, rock-a-bye-baby
Mamma come home to you afterwhileThe first line and rhythm reminds me less of a yodel derivative than of
the Irish chorus:Hi ho, hi ho, my laddie lie aisy
For perhaps your own daddy might never be known.
I'm sitting and sighing and rocking the cradle,
And nursin' the baby that's none of my own.Ballad Index doesn't much mention Irish versions except the Kennedy ref.
Is that "Britain" or "Ireland?" And none of the many Irish recordings
(Clancey, Makem, etc) or the Irish 'Aidal O' Boy" title chorus.  Wade
Hemsworth sings that one on _Folk Songs of the Canadian North Woods_;
Folkways, 1955.  He only gives likely to come from Ireland in the 1800's
and "It was sung in Labrador among other places."This is a _widespread_ song.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

And, of course, the melody was used by Kay Cothern in her magnificent "Coal in the Stone"
dick greenhausClifford Ocheltree wrote:> Can add a few additional recordings to the list previously provided:
>
> Charlie Newman, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (OKeh 45072, 1926)
> Phil Reeve & Ernest Moody, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor, unissued, Feb. 1927)
> Phil Reeve & Ernest Moody, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor 20929, Aug. 1927)
> Bud Thompson, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep"(Edison, 51871, 1926)
> Binkley Brothers' Dixie Clodhoppers "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Victor, unissued, 1928)
> Leake County Revelers (Columbia, 15353-D, 1928)
>
> Also some additions and corrections:
>
> Fay & The Jay Walkers, "Rock All Our Babies to Sleep" (Broadway 8093, 1928)
>         The Paramount issue of the record was credited to Fay & Jay Walker, the Broadway issue to The Bums.
>
> Dave Turner [pseud. for Dick Parman], "Rock All Our Babies To Sleep"(Supertone 9374, 1929)
>                 Also issued by Gennett with credit to Dick Parham, and twice on Champion with credits to Amos Neal (1929) and 'Doc' Roberts (1935)
>
> >
> >

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

David Hammond on the 1959 Tradition recording I Am The Wee Falorie Man:
Folk Songs of Ireland describes the song this way:The theme is the universal laughter-theme of folk lore: the old man
married to a young wife and left at home while she enjoys herself
abroad. Versions of this song are known in all the countries of
Eurasia, from Ireland to Mongolia. The tune here is that of an old
Irish lullaby called "Seoithin Seo," the Gaelic words of which are
completely lost. The tune is still a great favourite of pipers and
fiddlers, and modern Gaelic words-have been set to it for choral singingGeorge
On Saturday, May 17, 2003, at 01:50  PM, Fred McCormick wrote:> George Madeus wrote:-
>
> While it doesn't add much just for the record Fred McCormick in Joe
> Heaney: A Life in Song in the notes to the Topic  CD The Road from
> Connemara. Offers this: "A good portion of [Heaney's] English language
> songs were learned in Carna as well. For the most part these were
> importations from the english speaking world at large. It is not
> surprising to find the Bonny Boy and The Old Man Rocking the Cradle
> amongst the . Both songs must have had a strong appeal in a land where
> arranged marriage, often between people of disparate age groups, was
> the norm
>
> In an extended review of the Road From Connemara Tom Munnelly said the
> following
>
> :
>
> The Old Man Rocking the Cradle  I wonder where Joe got this?  There
> were a number of versions being sung around folk clubs at the time of
> this recording.  Hazarding a guess, I would think it likely he got it
> from Séamus Ennis (who got it from Johnny Doherty).  Whatever his
> source, he has made the song his own.  The pensive delivery conjures
> up a vivid word picture of a side of cuckoldry which is light years
> away from the ribald ballads often associated with the subject.
>
> The entire review can be read at
> http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/j_heaney.htm
>
> It's possible that Munnelly may be right for, although the two texts
> vary somewhat, Heaney's melody is rather like John Doherty's. However,
> I was basing my supposition, that Joe learned the song in Connemara,
> on a conversation I once had with Sean ac' Donncha. Sean was Joe's
> cousin and he was brought up in the same part of Connemara. According
> to him, the song was quite common around there.
>
> It is unfortunate that Ewan MacColl, who made the recordings from
> which TRFC was produced, did not make a habit of asking his informants
> where they got their songs from. In Heaney's case, the point is quite
> important, for he picked up a large number of songs from various
> sources, (including the British and American folk revivals) which
> would not have been available to him if he had not become such a
> celebrity.
>
> Munnnelly's case may be strengthened by the fact that, although the
> song is almost certainly Irish in origin, it does not appear to be all
> that that common in Ireland. As far as I can see, out of 25 entries,
> Roud's Folksong Index lists just 4 discrete Irish versions; from John
> Doherty, Robert Cinnamond, Mamo Clancy and Thomas Moran. There are
> further entries for Seamus Ennis and Paddy Tunney, but these were
> learned from Doherty. Finally, James N Healy's Old Irish Street
> Ballads Vol 4: No Place Like Home, includes an unattributed 9 verse
> broadside version.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred McCormick.

> It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!
> In Irish versions, he is an old man.
>Well, the song may well originally be Irish, but Lloyd seems to have overlooked
the fact that it appears on London broadsides from the seventeenth century in
both the male and female versions.  They are in the Pepys collection.  The
first one (1. 396) has the title,Rocke the Babie Joane: OR, Iohn his Petition to his louing Wife Ioane,
To suckle the Babe that was none of her owne.and opens:A young man in our Parrish,
His Wife was somewhat currish,
For she refused to nourish
a child which he brought home:
He got it on an other,
And death had tane the mother,
The truth he could not smother,
all out at last did come.
   Suckle the Baby
   huggle the Baby,
Rocke the Baby Ione,
I scorne to suckle the Baby
Unlesse it were mine owne.The second (1.404) has lost its title, but has a woodcut of a man with horns
and the refrain:
Rocke the Cradle, rocke the Cradle,
Rocke the Cradle John,
There's many a Man rocks the Cradle
when the childes none of his owne.The songs are both 'to the tune of Over and Under', and the second is
attributed to Laurence Price (who has also been credited with the first known
version of the House Carpenter).Gerald Porter

[unmask] wrote:
>
> > It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!
> > In Irish versions, he is an old man.
> >
>
> Well, the song may well originally be Irish, but Lloyd seems to have overlooked
> the fact that it appears on London broadsides from the seventeenth century in
> both the male and female versions.  They are in the Pepys collection.  The
> first one (1. 396) has the title,
>
> Rocke the Babie Joane: OR, Iohn his Petition to his louing Wife Ioane,
> To suckle the Babe that was none of her owne.
>
> and opens:
>
> A young man in our Parrish,
> His Wife was somewhat currish,
> For she refused to nourish
> a child which he brought home:
> He got it on an other,
> And death had tane the mother,
> The truth he could not smother,
> all out at last did come.
>    Suckle the Baby
>    huggle the Baby,
> Rocke the Baby Ione,
> I scorne to suckle the Baby
> Unlesse it were mine owne.
>
> The second (1.404) has lost its title, but has a woodcut of a man with horns
> and the refrain:
> Rocke the Cradle, rocke the Cradle,
> Rocke the Cradle John,
> There's many a Man rocks the Cradle
> when the childes none of his owne.
>
> The songs are both 'to the tune of Over and Under', and the second is
> attributed to Laurence Price (who has also been credited with the first known
> version of the House Carpenter).
>
> Gerald PorterThe 2nd is also in the Roxburghe collection, where it's title is "Rocke
the Cradle, John".Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

>............
> The songs are both 'to the tune of Over and Under', and the second is
> attributed to Laurence Price (who has also been credited with the first known
> version of the House Carpenter).
>
> Gerald PorterFor what "Under and Over" really meant, see my note to a broadside
ballad of that (as the subtitle), ZN203, in my broadside ballad index.
C. M. Simpson gave the tune in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its
Music', and an ABC of it is among the broadside tunes on my website,
B476.The identification of Laurence Price as author of "A Warning to
Married Women" (Child ballad #243, = James Harris, or the Demon
Lover/ The House Carpenter) was made by me in a review of 'The
Euing Collection of English Broadside Ballads'. My review was
published in 'The Journal of the Folklore Society of Greater
Washington', edited by Joe Hickerson, Vol. IV, #1 (Spring issue),
p. 27/8, 1973. The Euing collection copy, Euing #377, is the
earliest extant copy, but later than the original issue, and the
only known copy signed with Price's initials. (See ZN2466 in the
broadside ballad index on my website for other copies and note of
the Stationers' Registry entry date.)Hyder Rollins had earlier noted Laurence Price as the author of
"A Warning to Married Women", in 'An Analytical Index to the
Ballad Entries', 1924, but failed to note it was a Child ballad
(It was the only Child ballad on a 17th century broadside that
Rollins failed to note.)Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

On Sat, 17 May 2003 13:50:52 EDT, Fred McCormick wrote:>The Old Man Rocking the Cradle  I wonder where Joe got this?  There were a
>number of versions being sung around folk clubs at the time of this
>recording.  Hazarding a guess, I would think it likely he got it from Séamus
>Ennis (who got it from Johnny Doherty).I've been checking my books but finally checking my records, the oldest
Irish version I have is"Rockin' the Cradle" sung by Paddy Tunney on _the lark in the morning_,
Tradition - LP, 1956, collected 1955. (Diane Hamilton's early collection
of Makems, Clancys, Tunney, etc)  My LP has no notes inserted,
unfortunately so I have no source.  I'd think there must be some notes on
this somewhere!It's a two-verse version.  I have a feeling the usual verses 2 & 3 were
accidentally combined.  Begins:I'm here by the fire, without much desire
And rockin' the cradle that no body ownsIt's a male but no indication of his age.George cites:
>David Hammond on the 1959 Tradition recording I Am The Wee Falorie Man:
>Folk Songs of Ireland ...
 The tune here is that of an old
>Irish lullaby called "Seoithin Seo," the Gaelic words of which are completely lost.I doubt they're related but the Gaelic words as reported by Ennis (in
Lomax) are (happily, no accents are given):Luir a chodla, cuir a chodla, cuir a chodla an seancluine(e), [sic]
Luira chodle, nigh a chosa agus bog deoch do'r tsean duine.translated asPut to sleep, put to sleep, put to sleep the old man.
Put him to sleep, wash his feet and draw a drink for the old man.Lomax gives that they are connected by having the same tune as Ennis'
collected version.I also have "The Old Man Rocking the Cradle" on The Best of Isla Cameron,
Prestige - LP, c.1962.  It's the Ennis-type three verse.  The "Git Along
little Dogies" tune variant is clear but it's not really so in Tunney.
I'm wildly guessing she got it from Lomax in 1951.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Dear Gerald,Here's a cheeky one! I see you easily refer to the Pepys ballads. Does
this mean you have a nicely-written Index as a file? I've started
writing one for myself, but if there's a finished one going free...Ph.D. exam on June 20. Keep your fingers crossed. Defence only in autumn
now, as the two main readers have yet to submit their evaluations... one
of them is a young man from Scotland... Well, he promised to post it
this weekend, and he's a good lad!CD cover finished at weekend. This week will be "printer's week".Regards,Andy[unmask] wrote:
>
> > It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!
> > In Irish versions, he is an old man.
> >
>
> Well, the song may well originally be Irish, but Lloyd seems to have overlooked
> the fact that it appears on London broadsides from the seventeenth century in
> both the male and female versions.  They are in the Pepys collection.  The
> first one (1. 396) has the title,
>
> Rocke the Babie Joane: OR, Iohn his Petition to his louing Wife Ioane,
> To suckle the Babe that was none of her owne.
>
> and opens:
>
> A young man in our Parrish,
> His Wife was somewhat currish,
> For she refused to nourish
> a child which he brought home:
> He got it on an other,
> And death had tane the mother,
> The truth he could not smother,
> all out at last did come.
>    Suckle the Baby
>    huggle the Baby,
> Rocke the Baby Ione,
> I scorne to suckle the Baby
> Unlesse it were mine owne.
>
> The second (1.404) has lost its title, but has a woodcut of a man with horns
> and the refrain:
> Rocke the Cradle, rocke the Cradle,
> Rocke the Cradle John,
> There's many a Man rocks the Cradle
> when the childes none of his owne.
>
> The songs are both 'to the tune of Over and Under', and the second is
> attributed to Laurence Price (who has also been credited with the first known
> version of the House Carpenter).
>
> Gerald Porter

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Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Andy Rouse wrote:
>
> Dear Gerald,
>
> Here's a cheeky one! I see you easily refer to the Pepys ballads. Does
> this mean you have a nicely-written Index as a file? I've started
> writing one for myself, but if there's a finished one going free...
>.......I made an index to the 5 volumes of the Pepys collection which I still
have. However, I also added in the contents of almost all other known
16th and 17th century broadside ballad collections to make the broadside
ballad index on my website. This has proved to be far more useful than
separate indexes of collections.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

On Sun, 18 May 2003 13:10:03 -0400, Bruce Olson wrote:>For what "Under and Over" really meant, see my note to a broadside
>ballad of that (as the subtitle), ZN203, in my broadside ballad index.
>C. M. Simpson gave the tune in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its
>Music', and an ABC of it is among the broadside tunes on my website,
>B476.Is that in any way related to "All Fours" / "The Game of Cards?"-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Abby Sale wrote:
>
> On Sun, 18 May 2003 13:10:03 -0400, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> >For what "Under and Over" really meant, see my note to a broadside
> >ballad of that (as the subtitle), ZN203, in my broadside ballad index.
> >C. M. Simpson gave the tune in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its
> >Music', and an ABC of it is among the broadside tunes on my website,
> >B476.
>
> Is that in any way related to "All Fours" / "The Game of Cards?"
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
>                   I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                         Boycott South Carolina!
>         http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtmlI didn't copy much of the manuscript song (time was short and the script
was difficult), but I'm pretty certain it isn't related to the 2 you
mention.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

----- Original Message -----
From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>On Sun, 18 May 2003 13:10:03 -0400, Bruce Olson wrote:>For what "Under and Over" really meant, see my note to a broadside
>ballad of that (as the subtitle), ZN203, in my broadside ballad index.
>C. M. Simpson gave the tune in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its
>Music', and an ABC of it is among the broadside tunes on my website,
>B476.<<Is that in any way related to "All Fours" / "The Game of Cards?">>The tune "Under and Over" as currently played doesn't fit those words. It's
now used, incidentally, as the standard music for the dance, "Jacob Hall's
Jig". See Barnes, "English Country Dance Tunes".Peace,
Paul

Dear all,Sorry, this was supposed to be a personal message, but anyway thanks for
some of the bracing reassurance.AndyAndy Rouse wrote:
>
> Dear Gerald,
>
> Here's a cheeky one! I see you easily refer to the Pepys ballads. Does
> this mean you have a nicely-written Index as a file? I've started
> writing one for myself, but if there's a finished one going free...
>
> Ph.D. exam on June 20. Keep your fingers crossed. Defence only in autumn
> now, as the two main readers have yet to submit their evaluations... one
> of them is a young man from Scotland... Well, he promised to post it
> this weekend, and he's a good lad!
>
> CD cover finished at weekend. This week will be "printer's week".
>
> Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> [unmask] wrote:
> >
> > > It seem the song travelled from Ireland to AU and from there to England!
> > > In Irish versions, he is an old man.
> > >
> >
> > Well, the song may well originally be Irish, but Lloyd seems to have overlooked
> > the fact that it appears on London broadsides from the seventeenth century in
> > both the male and female versions.  They are in the Pepys collection.  The
> > first one (1. 396) has the title,
> >
> > Rocke the Babie Joane: OR, Iohn his Petition to his louing Wife Ioane,
> > To suckle the Babe that was none of her owne.
> >
> > and opens:
> >
> > A young man in our Parrish,
> > His Wife was somewhat currish,
> > For she refused to nourish
> > a child which he brought home:
> > He got it on an other,
> > And death had tane the mother,
> > The truth he could not smother,
> > all out at last did come.
> >    Suckle the Baby
> >    huggle the Baby,
> > Rocke the Baby Ione,
> > I scorne to suckle the Baby
> > Unlesse it were mine owne.
> >
> > The second (1.404) has lost its title, but has a woodcut of a man with horns
> > and the refrain:
> > Rocke the Cradle, rocke the Cradle,
> > Rocke the Cradle John,
> > There's many a Man rocks the Cradle
> > when the childes none of his owne.
> >
> > The songs are both 'to the tune of Over and Under', and the second is
> > attributed to Laurence Price (who has also been credited with the first known
> > version of the House Carpenter).
> >
> > Gerald Porter

On Thu, 15 May 2003 16:33:08 EDT, [unmask] wrote:
>
>>  If you are willing to be patient, I will happily send you an MP3 recording
>>of Lloyd's performance.
>
>I'd be very grateful for the MP3, though.  I do have a tape of _First
>Person_ but I can't find it today.Ah!  I finally found _First Person_.  Filed under 'A' of course.Yes Lloyd sings the song I know but far slower than I learned it.  I think
he's right to do it slowly.  "Young man," yes.Thank you, anyway.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Perhaps the ballad scholars will know....Thanks!
Best wishes, Thomas Stern.

I am seeking a copy of this limited edition 10 cd box  "Kerrville Folk
Festival - Ten Great Years".  Neither the Kerrville Festival nor the
producer (Silverwolf) have copies, and the usual sources for out of
print material have never listed it.
Please let me know if anyone has a copy to sell or lend, or has any
leads to a source for the set.
Thanks!
Best wishes, Thomas Stern.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the person of
Thomas H. Stern, writes:> A friend wishes to identify a song he heard on Australian radio
> in the 1930's about a balloon seller containing the lines:
>
> "See the poor girl in the gutter
> Overcome by London's fumes
> Crying while the snowflakes flutter
> Wont you buy my air balloons"
>
> and with the refrain:
>
> "Rich man rides by in his carriage and pair"To which vze29j8v <[unmask]> replies:> Subject: Re: [Fwd: identify/locate music-hall song]
>
> It's the syme the 'ole world over
> It's the poor wot gets the blyme
> While the rich 'as all the pleasures
> Now ain't that a bleedin' shyme!It is hard to resist the conclusion that we are dealing with yet
another stanza of "It's the syme the 'ole world over", but the refrain
is baffling; it would be hard to sing to that, or indeed any, tune.
Perhaps it is actually a casual description of some other stanza, such
as  See him riding in his carriage,
  See him going to the hunt;
  Thinking nothing of a marriage,
  Only of a piece of ****.  See him passing in his carriage
  With his face all wreathed in smiles.
  See her sitting on the pavement,
  Which is bloody bad for piles.              -- _The Dirty Song Book_
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,  :||
||:  but first it shall piss you off beyond belief.               :||

>A friend wishes to identify a song he heard on Australian radio
>in the 1930's about a balloon seller containing the lines:
>
>"See the poor girl in the gutter
>Overcome by London's fumes
>Crying while the snowflakes flutter
>Wont you buy my air balloons"
>
>and with the refrain:
>
>"Rich man rides by in his carriage and pair"
...
>Brian BingleyReminiscent of "It's the Syme the Whole World Over."
--
john garst    [unmask]

There's a 'London' ballad with a sweet wistful tune about a girl in the
streets, with the recurring fourth line"Won't you buy my pretty flowers?"It was used in a show I did many years ago. I'm trying to dreg up memories.This suggests a parody of that other ?Victorian? ballad.EwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

As with every other folk CD currently in print, you can get it from
CAMSCO Music (800/548-FOLK [3655])unabashedly commercial dick greenhaus
John Roberts wrote:> Pat, it's on Cindy's first album titled "Long Time Traveling." It was
> an LP, now out as a CD. Hope this helps.
> John Roberts.
>
>
>> Hi listers,
>>     I know I've heard the song in the subject line above sung on a
>> recording by Cindy Mangsen.  Would some one please tell me which
>> album, and
>> whether it's a tape or CD so I can try to find it?  I think I bought it
>> but, as I am aging, I find my memory is not what it used to be.  Oh,
>> Well.
>>
>>     Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Pat
>

Jack Campin previously gave a click-on to the Colonial Music
Institute website in connection with a CD of the 'Early American
Secular Music and Its European Sources, 1589-1839' (EASMES).
Besides being able to buy the CD version ($25) one can now search
it on-line. Below is a click-on to the on-line version.<A href= "http://www.colonialdancing.org/Easmes/Index.htm"> Index
Main Page </A> Click at top of page on chosen Subject (Sources,
Gernres, Texts, Incipits, Stressed Notes, Intervals, Names,
Theater Works) to search. To search for titles or first lines,
chose 'Texts'.To buy the CD version click on the following:
<A href="http://www.colonialmusic.org/Sales.htm"> Sales-Buy CD of
EASMES </a> Then click on far right image.Take a look; for scope and detail there's nothing like it!Everything I passed on to Norm Cohen on "Dapper Dickey", and even a bit
more, is included.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

Hi!        Here I am again! We present for your bidding pleasure the usual
eclectic mix of books. :-)        SONGSTERS        3522460073 - The Songsters Companion, c.1800, $50 (ends
May-25-03 20:01:36 PDT)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3224512176 - The First Book of Irish Ballads by O'Keefe, 1968,
$3.99 (ends May-25-03 12:20:14 PDT)        3522386684 - Sea Songs and Shanties by Whall, 1948 printing,
$21.95 (ends May-25-03 15:03:41 PDT)        2532734428 - COWBOY SONGS AND OTHER FRONTIER BALLADS by Lomax &
Lomax, 1967 printing, $6.75 (ends May-25-03 16:10:14 PDT) also
2533248911 - 1927 edition, $9.50 (ends May-29-03 09:57:23 PDT)        3522457047 - FOLKSINGERS AND FOLKSONGS IN AMERICA by Lawless,
1965, $6 (ends May-25-03 19:49:38 PDT)        2532460283 - 2 books (The Folk Songs of North America by Lomax &
English Folk Songs by Sharp, 2 volumes in one), $10.49 (ends May-26-03
13:58:46 PDT)        3523073893 - American Folk Tales and Songs by Chase, 1971 Dover
edition, $1.99 (ends May-26-03 14:24:49 PDT)        3522773688 - Mormon Songs from the Rocky Mountains:  A
Compilation of Mormon Folksong by Cheney, 1968, $9.95 (ends May-27-03
09:54:53 PDT)        2532708512 - Folk Songs of Nebraska and the Central West, by
Pound, 1915, $5.99 (end May-27-03 14:05:58 PDT)        3523483307 - THE VIKING BOOK OF FOLK BALLADS OF THE ENGLISH
SPEAKING WORLD by Friedman, $5 (ends May-27-03 21:30:58 PDT)        3523007304 - Ballads and Tragic Legends from the Southern
   Appalachian Mountains by Niles, 1938, $1.50 (ends May-28-03 10:13:40
PDT)        3523007571 - Ballads and Tragic Legends from Kentucky, Virginia,
Tennessee, North Carolina, and Georgia by Niles, 1936, $1.50 (ends
May-28-03 10:14:39 PDT)        3522675237 - Lift Up Your Head, Tom Dooley: The True Story of
the Appalachian Murder That Inspired One of America's Most Popular
Ballads by West, 1993, $3.95 (ends May-29-03 19:17:23 PDT)        3523329153 - 6 books, all folksong/folklore related, published
1959 to 1978, $21.50 (ends May-29-03 11:46:58 PDT)        3523417866 - SOUTH CAROLINA BALLADS by Smith, 1928, $12.50 (ends
May-29-03 16:07:54 PDT)        3523491644 - THE ENGLISH & SCOTTISH POPULAR BALLADS by Child,
1965 Dover edition, 5 volumes, $41 (ends May-29-03 23:32:38 PDT)        3523536888 - Raint Amhrán Cuid a Trí (Some Songs, Part three,
collected by Fr. Pádruig Breathnach), 1917, $9 (ends May-30-03 09:06:17
PDT)        3523537540 - FORTY YEARS IN THE OZARKS by Rayburn, 1957, $1.50
(ends May-30-03 09:10:09 PDT)        3523567357 - Songs and Ballads OF THE Maine Lumberjacks by Gray,
1969 reissue, $5.50 (ends May-30-03 11:48:04 PDT)        2533493463 - THE MINSTRELSY OF IRELAND by Moffat, 1900?, 2 GBP
(ends Jun-01-03 22:49:36 PDT)        3523519566 - Yorkshire Dialect Poems 1673-1915 and Traditional
Poems by Moorman, 1916, 36 GBP (ends Jun-02-03 07:09:47 PDT)        3523615843 - Irish Songs and Ballads by Graves, 1880, $125 (ends
Jun-02-03 16:35:41 PDT)        MISCELLANEOUS        2532380067 - Folk Ballads From Donegal & Derry, LP (Leader LEA
4055), 1972, 8.50 GBP (ends May-26-03 08:37:33 PDT) Dick, has this ever
made it to CD?        2532677235 - WINDY OLD WEATHER by BOB ROBERTS.1960, 6 track
Ballads Of Britain EP with text, 6 GBP (ends May-27-03 12:22:40 PDT)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 02:41:05PM -0400, Abby Sale wrote:
> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
> Date:         Wed, 7 May 2003 14:41:05 -0400
> From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> Subject: Re: The Flying Cloud
> To: [unmask]
>
> On Tue, 6 May 2003 10:20:36 -0400, Lewis Becker wrote:
>
> >Cazden, Folk songs of the Catskills, says that a text was printed in a 1894 songster by Henry J. Wehman.
>
> OCLC gives two Wehman books
>
> The Old cabin home and
> Kitty Wells.
> Author: Wehman, Henry,
> Publication: Brooklyn, N.Y. : Henry J. Wehman, song publisher, 962 De Kalb
> Avenue, 1878-1881? <----------
> Document: English : Book : Microform Microform
> Libraries Worldwide: 1  <------------
>
> and two collections
> [Wehman's collection of songs]. (No cover page on volume)
> Publication: New York : Henry J. Wehman, 1890
> Document: English : Book
> Libraries Worldwide: 1
>
> and
> Wehman's collection of 102 songs.
> Corp Author: Wehman, Henry J.,
> Publication: New York : Wehman, 1886
> Libraries Worldwide: 1
>Hi!        The following has just turned up a Ebay -        3523813803 - Wehman Bros. Song and Joke Book, 1900?, $3 (ends
May-31-03 18:01:29 PDT)        Is this the same Wehman? There is another joke book also on
Ebay.                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

In the notes of a recently released CD by Folk Trax in Australia John
Dengate writes, Duke Tritton (1886-1965) was described by Pete Seeger
as one of the world's greatest traditional folk singers.  Over the years his name comes up many times on Australian recordings.
Was he ever recorded and if so are they available?GeorgeGeorge F. Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill MA 02467
[unmask]
617. 552.4521
617 552 8419 FAXGeorge F. Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill MA 02467
[unmask]
617. 552.4521
617 552 8419 FAX

Hi  George-
He seems to be recorded on a few compilation CDs of Australian music
only--there's a book of his songs available. Dunno about vinyl or
cassettes, but I'm checking.dickGeorge Madaus wrote:> In the notes of a recently released CD by Folk Trax in Australia John
> Dengate writes, Duke Tritton (1886-1965) was described by Pete Seeger
> as one of the world's greatest traditional folk singers.
>
>  Over the years his name comes up many times on Australian recordings.
> Was he ever recorded and if so are they available?
>
> George
>
> George F. Madaus
> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
> Senior Research Fellow
> National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
> Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
> Boston College
> Chestnut Hill MA 02467
> [unmask]
> 617. 552.4521
> 617 552 8419 FAX
>
>
> George F. Madaus
> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
> Senior Research Fellow
> National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
> Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
> Boston College
> Chestnut Hill MA 02467
> [unmask]
> 617. 552.4521
> 617 552 8419 FAX
>

DickAfter I sent the query I checked my CD Sharing the Harvest Field
Recordings from the Meredith Collection (National Library of
Australia). It turns out Duke Tritton has three  songs Goorianawa, The
Shores of Botany Bay, and The Great Northern Line.I will keep checking
Thanks
George
On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 12:28  PM, vze29j8v wrote:> Hi  George-
> He seems to be recorded on a few compilation CDs of Australian music
> only--there's a book of his songs available. Dunno about vinyl or
> cassettes, but I'm checking.
>
> dick
>
>
> George Madaus wrote:
>
>> In the notes of a recently released CD by Folk Trax in Australia John
>> Dengate writes, Duke Tritton (1886-1965) was described by Pete Seeger
>> as one of the world's greatest traditional folk singers.
>>
>>  Over the years his name comes up many times on Australian recordings.
>> Was he ever recorded and if so are they available?
>>
>> George
>>
>> George F. Madaus
>> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
>> Senior Research Fellow
>> National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
>> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
>> Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
>> Boston College
>> Chestnut Hill MA 02467
>> [unmask]
>> 617. 552.4521
>> 617 552 8419 FAX
>>
>>
>> George F. Madaus
>> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
>> Senior Research Fellow
>> National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
>> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
>> Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
>> Boston College
>> Chestnut Hill MA 02467
>> [unmask]
>> 617. 552.4521
>> 617 552 8419 FAX
>>
>>
George F. Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill MA 02467
[unmask]
617. 552.4521
617 552 8419 FAXGeorge F. Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill MA 02467
[unmask]
617. 552.4521
617 552 8419 FAX

In his song notes for Rounder 82161-1832-2, Deep River of Song,
Bahamas 1935, Vol. 2, Guy Droussart states that "Delia Gone" appeared
in John and Evelyn McCutcheon, The Island Song Book, Chicago Tribune
Tower, 1927.  I don't have immediate access to a copy of this book.
If anyone does, would they send me a copy of the lyrics?Thanks.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi!        Well, it's raining again. :-( This makes 22 out of 29 days this
month. It is also raining books on Ebay. Here is the new list.        SONGSTERS        3523813803 - WEHMAN BROS N0.8 SONG and JOKE book, $3 (ends
May-31-03 18:01:29 PDT)        2534606193 - Lookout Mountain No. One Songster, 1884, $9.99
(ends Jun-06-03 20:04:00 PDT)        3610957182 - Grange Songster, 1915, $4.99 (ends Jun-07-03
18:45:35 PDT)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        3524686581 - KEESLER FIELD SONG BOOK, 1943, $8 (ends Jun-02-03
12:59:32 PDT)        2533612494 - A BALLAD HISTORY OF ENGLAND by Palmer, 1979, 4.99
GBP (ends May-30-03 13:48:26 PDT)        3523609113 - Reliques of Ancient English Poetry by Percy, vol.
2, 1765 printing, $9.99 (ends May-30-03 15:37:11 PDT) also 3523817424 -
$15, 1855, does not indicate which volume (ends May-31-03 18:21:15 PDT)        3523627211 - Minstrelsy, Ancient and Modern by Motherwell, 2
volumes, 1846, $25 w/reserve (ends May-30-03 18:05:56 PDT)        3523633104 - BALLAD MAKIN' IN THE MOUNTAINS OF KENTUCKY by Thomas,
1964, $3.99 (ends May-30-03 18:43:19 PDT)        2533781904 - 3 country songbooks from the 1940's (Carson
Robison, Jimmy Davis & the Delmore Brothers), $7.50 (ends May-31-03
11:15:33 PDT)        2533788780 - 2 radio songbooks from the 1930's (Drifting
Pioneers(1939) and the Radio Rubes(1933)), $9.99 (ends May-31-03
11:47:49 PDT)        2533786137 - 2 radio songbooks from the 1930's (Lulu Belle and
Skyland Scotty and the Carter Family), $5 (ends May-31-03 11:36:04 PDT)        2533874444 - 2 Asher Sizemore & Little Jimmie songbooks, 1933 &
1938, $9.99 (ends May-31-03 19:15:49 PDT)        3523837435 - ECHOES OF AFRICA in Folk Songs of Americas by
Landeck, 1961, $9.50 (ends May-31-03 20:13:55 PDT)        2533919469 - Album of Welsh Folk Songs, 1955, 3 GBP (ends
Jun-01-03 03:52:02 PDT)        3524005431 - Sounds of the Lake and Woods, Michigan Folk Songs
by Goodin, 1960, $19.95 (ends Jun-01-03 12:23:38 PDT)        3524083819 - A Bibliography of North American Folklore &
Folksong by Haywood, volume 1, 1961, $9.99 (ends Jun-01-03 17:43:26 PDT)        3225880017 - COWBOYS AND THE SONGS THEY SANG by Sackett, 1967,
$14.99 (ends Jun-01-03 19:30:00 PDT)        3524124838 - 2 booklets (Folk Songs of the South, 1926 and The
Dett Collection of Negro Spirituals, 1936), $6.95 (ends Jun-01-03
20:09:21 PDT)        2533494506 - THE FAIRY ISLE; Manx Folk Songs, 1 GBP (ends
Jun-01-03 23:01:14 PDT)        3524151763 - 5 books: FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTH by Cox, 1967
                        Ballads & Songs by Belden, 1966 reprint
SOUTHERN MOUNTAIN FOLKSONGS,Appalachian and Ozark by McNeil, 1993
ENGLISH FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS by Sharp, 1973 edition
BALLADS AND FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTHWEST by Moore, 1966 reprint
$6.45 (ends Jun-01-03 23:55:34)        2534374081 - Joe Davis folio of Carson J. Robison songs, 1931,
$1.95 (ends Jun-02-03 18:52:19 PDT)        3524339148 - 3 songbooks: TOM GLAZER - A NEW TREASURY OF FOLK
SONGS, 1978 printing; THE BALLAD BOOK OF JOHN JACOB NILES, 1961; and
ROLL ME OVER by Babad, $4.50 (ends Jun-02-03 18:59:24 PDT)        3524355992 - Shantymen and Shantyboys: Songs of the Sailor and
Lumberman by Doerflinger, 1951, $12.50 (ends Jun-02-03 20:15:38 PDT)        2534396594 - Soft-Boiled Ballads by Hanemanns, 1931, $3.99 (ends
Jun-02-03 20:21:04 PDT)        2534464735 - CUMBERLAND RIDGERUNNERS: Mountain Ballads and Home
Songs, 1936, $2.50 (ends Jun-03-03 08:04:11 PDT)        2534481904 - OLD TIME SONGS AS SUNG BY JACK FOY, 1930?, $5 (ends
Jun-03-03 09:25:55 PDT)        3524490858 - English and Scottish Popular Ballads by Sergant &
Kittredge, 1904, $3.50 (ends Jun-03-03 13:54:37 PDT)        3524503622 - Devil's Ditties by Thomas, 1931, $6 (ends Jun-03-03
15:00:11 PDT)        3524584089 - 3 sea song books: SONGS THE WHALEMEN SANG by
Huntington, 1970; THE OXFORD BOOK OF SEA SONGS by Palmer, 1986; SONGS OF
AMERICAN SAILORMEN by Colcord, 1964 edition, $31 (ends Jun-03-03
23:35:49 PDT)        2534817694 - One Hundred English Folksongs by Sharp, 1975 Dover
edition, $7.50 (ends Jun-04-03 16:32:20 PDT)        MISCELLANEOUS        2534219407 - Traditional Tales & Songs of Arkansas Ozarks, 2 LP
set, 1981, $5.99 (ends Jun-02-03 07:22:10 PDT)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

On 5/29/03, Dolores Nichols wrote:[ ... ]>        3523633104 - BALLAD MAKIN' IN THE MOUNTAINS OF KENTUCKY by Thomas,
>1964, $3.99 (ends May-30-03 18:43:19 PDT)I'm mildly interested in this one, but don't intend to push hard. If
anyone wants it, let me know.[ ... ]>        3524151763 - 5 books: FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTH by Cox, 1967
>                        Ballads & Songs by Belden, 1966 reprint
>SOUTHERN MOUNTAIN FOLKSONGS,Appalachian and Ozark by McNeil, 1993
>ENGLISH FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS by Sharp, 1973 edition
>BALLADS AND FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTHWEST by Moore, 1966 reprint
>$6.45 (ends Jun-01-03 23:55:34)I have some but not all of these. Anyone else want to subdivide it?[ ... ]>        3524503622 - Devil's Ditties by Thomas, 1931, $6 (ends Jun-03-03
>15:00:11 PDT)Again, mildly interested in this one.>        3524584089 - 3 sea song books: SONGS THE WHALEMEN SANG by
>Huntington, 1970; THE OXFORD BOOK OF SEA SONGS by Palmer, 1986; SONGS OF
>AMERICAN SAILORMEN by Colcord, 1964 edition, $31 (ends Jun-03-03
>23:35:49 PDT)I have two out of three. Anyone want Huntington and Colcord
but not Palmer? :-)
--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

I have bid as Man at Sea for the latter group of 5, since I desperately want
the Sharp. I'm also interested in the Ballad Makin' but will back off if you
want it.  Yes, I'd like the Huntingdon but I'm not interested in the Palmer
and I have the Colcord.  The Mackenzie Quest I bought got lost in the mail
and the only other one I've seen (yesterday I believe) I let go by not being
on line at the right time. $30 or so with a Wilgus, too!  Ah, me, but I
suppose we have to eat and sleep.Jon Bartlett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 05/29/03> On 5/29/03, Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >        3523633104 - BALLAD MAKIN' IN THE MOUNTAINS OF KENTUCKY by
Thomas,
> >1964, $3.99 (ends May-30-03 18:43:19 PDT)
>
> I'm mildly interested in this one, but don't intend to push hard. If
> anyone wants it, let me know.
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >        3524151763 - 5 books: FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTH by Cox, 1967
> >                        Ballads & Songs by Belden, 1966 reprint
> >SOUTHERN MOUNTAIN FOLKSONGS,Appalachian and Ozark by McNeil, 1993
> >ENGLISH FOLK-SONGS FROM THE SOUTHERN APPALACHIANS by Sharp, 1973 edition
> >BALLADS AND FOLK SONGS OF THE SOUTHWEST by Moore, 1966 reprint
> >$6.45 (ends Jun-01-03 23:55:34)
>
> I have some but not all of these. Anyone else want to subdivide it?
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >        3524503622 - Devil's Ditties by Thomas, 1931, $6 (ends Jun-03-03
> >15:00:11 PDT)
>
> Again, mildly interested in this one.
>
> >        3524584089 - 3 sea song books: SONGS THE WHALEMEN SANG by
> >Huntington, 1970; THE OXFORD BOOK OF SEA SONGS by Palmer, 1986; SONGS OF
> >AMERICAN SAILORMEN by Colcord, 1964 edition, $31 (ends Jun-03-03
> >23:35:49 PDT)
>
> I have two out of three. Anyone want Huntington and Colcord
> but not Palmer? :-)
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."
>

On 5/29/03, Jon Bartlett wrote:>I have bid as Man at Sea for the latter group of 5, since I desperately want
>the Sharp. I'm also interested in the Ballad Makin' but will back off if you
>want it.  Yes, I'd like the Huntingdon but I'm not interested in the Palmer
>and I have the Colcord.  The Mackenzie Quest I bought got lost in the mail
>and the only other one I've seen (yesterday I believe) I let go by not being
>on line at the right time. $30 or so with a Wilgus, too!  Ah, me, but I
>suppose we have to eat and sleep.I'm not deeply interested in "Ballad Makin'"; it's already in the
Index, so it would just be a reference. I wouldn't go very high, so
you take it.Come to think of it, why don't you go after all of them, and if you
get them, we can negotiate over what you don't want in the package
deals.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Thanks, Bob. Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 05/29/03> On 5/29/03, Jon Bartlett wrote:
>
> >I have bid as Man at Sea for the latter group of 5, since I desperately
want
> >the Sharp. I'm also interested in the Ballad Makin' but will back off if
you
> >want it.  Yes, I'd like the Huntingdon but I'm not interested in the
Palmer
> >and I have the Colcord.  The Mackenzie Quest I bought got lost in the
mail
> >and the only other one I've seen (yesterday I believe) I let go by not
being
> >on line at the right time. $30 or so with a Wilgus, too!  Ah, me, but I
> >suppose we have to eat and sleep.
>
> I'm not deeply interested in "Ballad Makin'"; it's already in the
> Index, so it would just be a reference. I wouldn't go very high, so
> you take it.
>
> Come to think of it, why don't you go after all of them, and if you
> get them, we can negotiate over what you don't want in the package
> deals.
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."
>