Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Becky - did I do it right in the correct way by renaming the thread but
keeping the original subject line in?That is the way I understand that we do it over here......two nations
divided by a common language again!!Dave----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky Nankivell" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: post confusion> If when you respond you are careful to insert the correct reference in
> the subject line, that would help reduce confusion in reading the
> wonderful miscellany of threads that often develop (like the ones going
> now!). Those who subscribe to the list in digest form will always have
> to do so, those who reply to posts from those who haven't fixed it will
> perpetuate it. It'll help those who are trying to follow things in the
> archives, too. (I get the digest and you can see that topics 2 & 3 below
> are not too informative.)
>
> ~ Becky Nankivell
> Tucson, Arizona
>
> Automatic digest processor wrote:
>
> > There are 13 messages totalling 565 lines in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this special issue:
> >
> >   1. We/I Shall Not Be Moved (4)
> >   2. BALLAD-L Digest - 28 Jan 2003 to 30 Jan 2003 (#2003-27) (2)
> >   3. BALLAD-L Digest - 30 Jan 2003 to 31 Jan 2003 - Special issue
(#2003-28)
> >   4. More Re: Corner  of Dock and Holly (3)
> >   5. Endless songs (Was Corner  of Dock and Holly) (3)
> > ------------------------------
>
>

From the Aberdeen Press and Journal.  A longer story appears on 1st Feb.BALLAD KING DIES AT 7316:00 - 31 January 2003
North-east bothy ballad king Tam Reid has died aged 73.Mr Reid was found dead on Wednesday at his Echt farm where he had been
feeding his animals.The one-time milkman was famed in traditional music circles.Mr Reid had been performing since the 50s.But it was in 1977 at a bothy ballad competition in Turriff that he was
crowned as the first bothy ballad king for 200 years.As well as countless performances at festivals and old folk's homes, he
also won an audience abroad.Mr Reid and his wife Anne were married in 1975.Together the couple set up Cullerlie Park Farm.Mr Reid is survived by his wife Anne, 63, and their three daughters.******************************
Sad news, indeed.Stephanie Smith, Ph.D., Assistant Archivist and Webmaster
Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage
Smithsonian Institution
750 9th Street, NW, Suite 4100
Washington, D.C.  20560-0953
202 275-1157  voice
202 275-2251 fax
[unmask]NB: Until further notice, please send all mail to:
PO Box 37012
Victor Building, Room 4100, MRC 953
Washington, DC 20013-7012>>> [unmask] 02/02/03 07:36PM >>>
I was told today that Tam Reid died last week - went out to see to his
sheep in a blizzard; his wife found him dying in the snow a few hours
later, and the weather stopped the emergency services getting through
fast enough to help.  Apparently there were something about it in the
Aberdeen Press and Journal, anybody see it?  I can't find anything on
the web.A very fine singer; I'm posting this to two lists and I think there
are people on both who knew him well.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131
6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack>     *     food intolerance data &
recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files, and my CD-ROM "Embro,
Embro".

Oh Sir Jasper is sung to the tune of John Brown's Body (Battle Hymn of the
Republic).   I learned it at summer camp-Mark G

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Please excuse my posting this to the list, but Jack's server seems to reject my
E-Mails.Jack-
Please contact dick greenhaus ([unmask]).For all others on the list, I still have some copies of Jack's "Embro, Embro" CD
available at $30 (US).dick greenhaus
CAMSCO Music

Dave,
Yes, that's worked. Thanks!~ BeckyDave Eyre wrote:
Date:    Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:05:17 -0800
From:    Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
Subject: Re: post confusionBecky - did I do it right in the correct way by renaming the thread but
keeping the original subject line in?That is the way I understand that we do it over here......two nations
divided by a common language again!!----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky Nankivell" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 7:17 PM
Subject: post confusion > If when you respond you are careful to insert the correct reference in
 > the subject line, that would help reduce confusion in reading the
 > wonderful miscellany of threads that often develop (like the ones going
 > now!).

Hi Dave,
   I learned that song many years ago as a teenager at a "playground
supervisor's" course, so I suspect it is very well known here on the
Canadian prairies!Paddy Tutty
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canadahttp://www.prairiedruid.netDave Eyre wrote:
>
> I was away this weekend at a conference for festival organisers and was
> astonished to see so much stuff on the email box, all of which was
> fascinating!!.
>
> So here is another song from the repertoire of Sheffield City Morris. Any
> light on it and its origins is unknown to us. This one is done with mimed
> actions and we usually perform it as part of sessions with other dance teams
> especially foreign teams when we are abroad. The foreign ones often adopt
> and adapt it and we have met people many years later who just make the
> "cottage sign" as a "badge" of recognition. The actions are still performed
> as each line gets dropped off. I'll try and give a flavour of the actions,
> they are done in rhythm to the words.
>
> In a cottage in the wood                    (standard sign for a house with
> a pointy roof)
> A little man at the window stood,       (hand to forehead as sheltering eyes
> from sun, move from left to right)
> Saw a rabbit passing by                     (like a bouncy ball on words
> with left hand)
> Knocking at his door.                        (knocking with right hand)
>
> "Help me, help me, help" he  cried                         (hands thrown up
> in air three times)
> "all the hunters shoot me dead"                              (rifle to
> shoulder moving from left to right)
> Come little rabbit, come inside                              (beckoning sign
> with forefinger twice)
> happy we shall be.                                                (baby
> cradling on arm)
>
> Start again missing off last LINE but continue with all actions so that at
> the end all the actions are mimed.
>
> It does require excellent timing - and I am hope I have started another
> thread with this one - the last one was so good......I suspect it started as
> a children's thing but believe me adults love it - well the ones with some
> "child" in them do!!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Dave
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Truman and Suzanne Price wrote:
> Is This a Toast?
>
> THE GENEROUS ENEMY
>
> Magnus Barfod, in the year 1102, began the general conquest of
> the kingdoms of Ireland;  it is said that the evening before his death
> he received this salute from Muirchertach, king in Dublin:
>
> May gold and storm march in your armies,
>     Magnus Barfod,
> That tomorrow, in the fields of my kingdom, your battle
>     will be happy.
> May your terrible kingly hands weave the fabric
>     of the sword.
> May those who oppose your blade be food
>     for the red swan.
> May your many gods bring you out in glory, may they
>     bring you out in blood.
> May you be victorious on the dawn, the king who treads
>     on Ireland.
> May nothing in your many days shine like this day
>     of tomorrow.
> Because this day will be the last.  I swear this to you, King
>     Magnus.
> Because before its light is blown out, I will vanquish you and
>     I will obliterate you, Magnus Barfod.
>
>         From Anhang zur Heimskringla  (1893) by H. Gering
>JOHN MEHLBERG:
It all depends on context.   In the past it was believed that saying aloud
a blessing or curse would more likely cause it to happen.   This may be an
instance of a spoken curse which was never used in the context of alcohol.This is why I am a bit wary about having Yiddish curses in my toast
collection.  I do not know if they confirm their curses by drinking alcohol
as the Irish often do with their curses.  Do Jewish people use their curses
in the context of alcohol?~
What is the tune for this song/toast?HERE'S to the maiden of bashful fifteen;
     Here's to the widow of fifty;
Here's to the flaunting, extravagant quean,
     And here's to the housewife that's thrifty.
               Let the toast pass,
               Drink to the lass,
I'll warrant she'll prove an excuse for the glass.

ED CRAY:> No, no, no, no, no.  The CLASSIC is:
>
> May all his teeth fall out but one, and that one should have a toothache!
>
> My mother, now 94, used to tell me that when she dealt with the butch,
the
> baker, the grocer, et al.  (I unfortunately did not learn enough Yiddish
> to set it down properly.)JOHN MEHLBERG:
I am leary about adding to my TOASTING collection items that were never
used as a toast.   Are these Yiddish curses said while drinking?  In what
context are these curses used?

What sad news!  But how fitting that Tam should die as (it was very much
my impression) he lived, standing foursquare on his own two feet: glass
in hand at the Plough (rhyme it with "shoe"), hailing old (and new)
friends at the Keith Festival as he and Ann strolled down the street,
discernably advancing toward their destination only as Ann nudged him
gently onward, and (of course) tending his sheep in the dead of winter.
Clearly, Tam sang of what he knew -- and I will be very surprised if the
"king of bothy ballads" does not himself become a heroic ballad subject.I am saddened selfishly too, having just found out last year about the
"singing weekend" which the Reids were holding the last weekend in June at
their Aberdeenshire farm (Cullerlie).  It sounded like a truly magical
gathering of singers, and I do hope that somehow, in Tam's spirit, that
gathering might be continued. The news is probably too sudden for any such
plans of course, but I'll pass on anything I hear.
                        Jean Lepley

Our experience with Yiddish curses has not been in the context of alchol,
although it certainly can be done that way.Bev and JerryIt is better to shine than to reflect
http://webpages.charter.net/bevjerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "¸.·´¯`·.¸John Mehlberg¸.·´¯`·.¸" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>> JOHN MEHLBERG:
> It all depends on context.   In the past it was believed that saying aloud
> a blessing or curse would more likely cause it to happen.   This may be an
> instance of a spoken curse which was never used in the context of alcohol.
>
> This is why I am a bit wary about having Yiddish curses in my toast
> collection.  I do not know if they confirm their curses by drinking
alcohol
> as the Irish often do with their curses.  Do Jewish people use their
curses
> in the context of alcohol?
>
> ~
> What is the tune for this song/toast?
>
> HERE'S to the maiden of bashful fifteen;
>      Here's to the widow of fifty;
> Here's to the flaunting, extravagant quean,
>      And here's to the housewife that's thrifty.
>                Let the toast pass,
>                Drink to the lass,
> I'll warrant she'll prove an excuse for the glass.
>

Hi, I tried to post a message about Tam Reid this afternoon, and it never
got up there.   What happened?

On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 04:50:54PM -0800, Jean Lepley wrote:
> Date:         Mon, 3 Feb 2003 16:50:54 -0800
> From: Jean Lepley <[unmask]>
> Subject: failed posting
> To: [unmask]
>
> Hi, I tried to post a message about Tam Reid this afternoon, and it never
> got up there.   What happened?
---end quoted text---        It got here.  If you mean the one which started: ======================================================================
What sad news!  But how fitting that Tam should die as (it was very much
my impression) he lived, standing foursquare on his own two feet: glass
======================================================================        Is is possible that you haven't yet told the listserver to send
you copies?  I forget the details, but if you are a recent joiner, you
should have received an e-mail pointing you to how to get more
information about your subscription, and how to change options.  IIRC,
the default is to not send posters copies, on the theory that they were
already saving a copy.  I prefer to get a copy for verification that it
really went out, as it would seem you do.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Dear Alan,Kenny Hall is alive and well and nearly 80.  He has a regular 6-8pm
Wednesday night gig at the Santa Fe Basque Restaurant at the corner of
Shields and Maro in Fresno, CA.  (Do stop in and catch his set if you're
ever out on Hwy. 99 on a Wednesday night...)  He's also playing at the
California Autoharp Gathering in Mendota, CA on May 16.He and Evo Bluestein perform regularly as a duet in classrooms in San
Joaquin Valley schools.For more about Kenny, visit:  http://lineonline.org/kenny.html-Adam Miller> I have certainly heard Kenny Hall play it, but I had no idea that he
> had originated it! Did he make up the tune, or is that truly
> traditional? It seems like every old-timey jam I've heard eventually
> breaks into this one. (I know,  wrong list...)
>
> P.S. Is Kenny Hall still alive? He certainly doesn't come around here
> (San Francisco Bay area) any more.
> --
> Alan Ackerman, [unmask]

I learned this in scouts (I think), in California, 30+ years ago, and my
sister, who taught day care for several years in New Hampshire, had kids
who knew it as well. It seems to be strong here in the States.
The only difference is a few words.
"Little" cottage in the woods,
Saw a rabbit "hopping" by (and do you do rabbit ears with your fingers on
the bouncy hand?)
Help me, Help me, Help! he "said" (rhymes with dead then).
"'Fore the hunter shoots" me dead
Little Rabbit, come inside (no Come as first word)
"Safely to abide"It's done by Morris teams?Kathleen--On Sunday, February 2, 2003 9:46 PM -0800 Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
wrote:
> So here is another song from the repertoire of Sheffield City Morris. Any
> light on it and its origins is unknown to us. This one is done with mimed
> actions and we usually perform it as part of sessions with other dance
> teams especially foreign teams when we are abroad. The foreign ones often
> adopt and adapt it and we have met people many years later who just make
> the "cottage sign" as a "badge" of recognition. The actions are still
> performed as each line gets dropped off. I'll try and give a flavour of
> the actions, they are done in rhythm to the words.
>
> In a cottage in the wood                    (standard sign for a house
> with a pointy roof)
> A little man at the window stood,       (hand to forehead as sheltering
> eyes from sun, move from left to right)
> Saw a rabbit passing by                     (like a bouncy ball on words
> with left hand)
> Knocking at his door.                        (knocking with right hand)
>
> "Help me, help me, help" he  cried                         (hands thrown
> up in air three times)
> "all the hunters shoot me dead"                              (rifle to
> shoulder moving from left to right)
> Come little rabbit, come inside                              (beckoning
> sign with forefinger twice)
> happy we shall be.                                                (baby
> cradling on arm)
>
> Start again missing off last LINE but continue with all actions so that at
> the end all the actions are mimed.--
Kathleen Conery
[unmask]

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:43:14 -0800, Dave Eyre wrote:>It may help us in England and Wales to do some comparisons -so if you meet
>some friends in a bar and play some music - does the premises where this
>takes place - usually a bar of course - need a form of licence?Not an issue in the US, generally.  However, if the sessions take place
regularly, sooner or later ASCAP or BMI will show up and demand their
song-licencing fees.  They do this even for non-profit organizations
adhering to trad. music.  The burdon seems to be on the performer to prove
the material is in the public domain.I noticed some stuff on the problem at the Cecil Sharp House (EFDSS) site
that might help--- http://www.efdss.org/index.htm
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Thanks for that Abby - it is not the performing rights which in GB is PRS
(Performing Rights Society) is simply the problem of playing music in a bar,
and the suggestion that playing music in a bar should be a licensable
activity - not too bad in itself but it is the baggage that comes with it
that is a real problem - double glazing etc.....It seems strange that the
most safety-conscious nation in the world (the US) does not seem to need
this extra legislation!!PRS is a separate issue and simply as a matter of fact and for information,
at Holmfirth Festival all our artists submit a set list and we pay 3% of our
festival's turnover to the PRS which is a nationally agreed sum. The
sessions which also take place are a different matter of course.Dave----- Original Message -----
From: "Abby Sale" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: What happens where you are? Err.... a bit long.....> On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:43:14 -0800, Dave Eyre wrote:
>
> >It may help us in England and Wales to do some comparisons -so if you
meet
> >some friends in a bar and play some music - does the premises where this
> >takes place - usually a bar of course - need a form of licence?
>
> Not an issue in the US, generally.  However, if the sessions take place
> regularly, sooner or later ASCAP or BMI will show up and demand their
> song-licencing fees.  They do this even for non-profit organizations
> adhering to trad. music.  The burdon seems to be on the performer to prove
> the material is in the public domain.
>
> I noticed some stuff on the problem at the Cecil Sharp House (EFDSS) site
> that might help--- http://www.efdss.org/index.htm
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
>                   I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                         Boycott South Carolina!
>         http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml
>
>

Hi Kathleen,Interesting in that it seems to have (maybe) come across the Pond.> I learned this in scouts (I think), in California, 30+ years ago, and my
> sister, who taught day care for several years in New Hampshire, had kids
> who knew it as well. It seems to be strong here in the States.
> The only difference is a few words.
> "Little" cottage in the woods,
> Saw a rabbit "hopping" by (and do you do rabbit ears with your fingers on
> the bouncy hand?)NO!! but we will in future!!!!!!> Help me, Help me, Help! he "said" (rhymes with dead then).
> "'Fore the hunter shoots" me deadI think I may have written it wrong there!!> Little Rabbit, come inside (no Come as first word)
> "Safely to abide""Safely to abide" does not seem to go with our cradling movement so well as
"happy we shall be!!"A living example of the folk process at work - whatever that means!!> It's done by Morris teams?Sorry if I mislead you there - only as part of our non-morris sessions eg.
when wimping in the pub out of the rain, or late night sessions - or in fact
any other session!!. I mentioned it because it seems to go down particularly
well with foreign teams where there is likely to be a language barrier.Dave> Kathleen
>
> --On Sunday, February 2, 2003 9:46 PM -0800 Dave Eyre
<[unmask]>
> wrote:
> > So here is another song from the repertoire of Sheffield City Morris.
Any
> > light on it and its origins is unknown to us. This one is done with
mimed
> > actions and we usually perform it as part of sessions with other dance
> > teams especially foreign teams when we are abroad. The foreign ones
often
> > adopt and adapt it and we have met people many years later who just make
> > the "cottage sign" as a "badge" of recognition. The actions are still
> > performed as each line gets dropped off. I'll try and give a flavour of
> > the actions, they are done in rhythm to the words.
> >
> > In a cottage in the wood                    (standard sign for a house
> > with a pointy roof)
> > A little man at the window stood,       (hand to forehead as sheltering
> > eyes from sun, move from left to right)
> > Saw a rabbit passing by                     (like a bouncy ball on words
> > with left hand)
> > Knocking at his door.                        (knocking with right hand)
> >
> > "Help me, help me, help" he  cried                         (hands thrown
> > up in air three times)
> > "all the hunters shoot me dead"                              (rifle to
> > shoulder moving from left to right)
> > Come little rabbit, come inside                              (beckoning
> > sign with forefinger twice)
> > happy we shall be.                                                (baby
> > cradling on arm)
> >
> > Start again missing off last LINE but continue with all actions so that
at
> > the end all the actions are mimed.
>
>
> --
> Kathleen Conery
> [unmask]
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Kathleen Conery <[unmask]><<I learned this in scouts (I think), in California, 30+ years ago, and my
sister, who taught day care for several years in New Hampshire, had kids
who knew it as well. It seems to be strong here in the States.
The only difference is a few words.
"Little" cottage in the woods,
Saw a rabbit "hopping" by (and do you do rabbit ears with your fingers on
the bouncy hand?)
Help me, Help me, Help! he "said" (rhymes with dead then).
"'Fore the hunter shoots" me dead
Little Rabbit, come inside (no Come as first word)
"Safely to abide">>Likewise, in grade school. It was mostly a girl thing, as I recall; boys
didn't usually do it.Peace,
Paul

Hi folks:A couple of weeks ago, in the context of another discussion, someone asked
about making field recordings with laptops. A few years ago, it was fiddly
and precarious; you inserted an interface card in the one expansion slot
your laptop offered, then an audio card outboard, then a microphone preamp
or mixer to feed the audio card, and hoped the whole thing wouldn't crash or
come undone.It's gotten a good deal easier since many laptops are equipped with USB
connections; several all-in-one boxes have sprung up that connect directly
to the USB jack. Typically the box will include a pair of microphone
preamplifiers (usually with phantom power) that can also be used for
line-level inputs, and an analog-to-digital converter, as well as a
headphone jack for monitoring. One of the higher-level units is Apogee's
"Mini-Me", which has what look like good mike preamps and an A/D converter
that will work at sampling rates of 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96 kHz, and samples
at 24 bits (or can be dithered down to 20 or 16). It has a "soft limiter" to
prevent momentary overloads, and a standard compressor-limiter that can be
switched in if needed. Also AES/EBU and S/PDIF digital outputs. It runs from
a DC wall wart, or one can put together a battery pack. It lists for about
$1500, typically sells for about $1300. My experience with Apogee is that
their gear sounds very good.At a lower price, M-Audio (formerly Midiman) sells the USB Audiosport Duo
for about $350 MSRP, with similar features but no limiting, soft or
otherwise. I have one of their other units here; the A/D converters are
decent, although not Apogee quality, and the microphone preamps are, well,
mediocre-sounding and somewhat noisy. Still, it's an option at a way lower
price than the Apogee.There are a few other units out there; those were simply the first two that
came to mind. There will probably be more. By the way, obvious disclaimer: I
have no connection with any of these companies, and don't stand to profit
from them in any way. (I have reviewed their gear for "Recording" magazine,
and in so doing have gained a reputation as a kvetch.)Once you have the USB box, you need a laptop with USB (obviously), a
good-sized hard disc (an hour of recording at 24 bits, 44.1 kHz sampling
rate uses up about 1 gig of disc space) and a chunk of RAM (I use 256 Megs,
and at least 128 Megs is recommended). There are lots of audio recording and
editing programs out there; one of the best 2-channel ones is CoolEdit,
which sells for $69, is easy to use, and actually IMHO sounds better than
some other programs when you do things to the signal (probably better
dithering algorithms, for the tech geeks out there). It's very useful if you
have a CD burner in the laptop too, so you can dump -- er, archive the
recordings. Or you can connect the laptop to a desktop computer, load them
in there, and burn them that way.In the last couple of years, this has become a viable way to record; the
chief obstacle right now is the need to cobble together your own battery
back for real field recording, and I suspect that it won't be long before
those are available commercially.Peace,
Paul"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

Sorry Dan, but there didn't seem to be enough interest for me to apply for
discount pricing.dick greenhausfolkmusic wrote:> Thanks, Dick.  I look forward to receiving details from you.  This is an
> area of special interest to me and I'm sure Norm's book is invaluable.
> All the best,
> Dan Milner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Norm Cohens new book
>
> > Hi y'all-
> > If enough listmembers (and others) want top buy this, CAMSCO may be able
> to
> > supply it at a discount. Let me know if you're interested.
> >
> > This is what I've been able to do with the Greig-Duncan Collection and to
> the
> > Sodom Laurel Album.
> >
> > dick greenhaus
> > CAMSCO Music
> > [unmask]
> > 800/548-FOLK (3655)
> >
> > Ed Cray wrote:
> >
> > > Folks:
> > >
> > > Barbara points out I should have given a more precise address for the
> > > publisher of Norm Cohen's _A Finding List of American Secular
> Songsters._
> > >
> > > I do so now:
> > >
> > > Center for Popular Music
> > > Tennessee State University
> > > Murfreesboro, TN 37132
> > >
> > > The price of the softcover is not listed.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Barbara Boock wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dear Ed Cray,
> > > > do you happen to have the address of the publisher? In Germany it is
> > > > sometimes difficult to find that out. "Long steel rail" is such a
> > > > marvellous book! Does Norm give any annotations describing the content
> of
> > > > the songsters? I think we should ask for a review copy for our
> yearbook and
> > > > we need the book for our library. Yours Barbara
> > > > Barbara Boock, Bibliothekarin
> > > > Deutsches Volksliedarchiv
> > > >     - Arbeitsstelle für internationale Volksliedforschung
> > > > Silberbachstr. 13
> > > > D 79100 Freiburg
> > > >
> > > > Tel (49) 761 70 50 30
> > > > Durchwahl  (49) 761 70 50 314
> > > > Fax (49) 761 70 50 328
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

Any place that wants to play music, live or recorded, must make
arrangements with one of the licensing businesses here in the States (like
ASCAP). This is even if it's a convenience store (little corner market)
playing the radio! However... if you are playing ONLY traditional tunes
then no licensing fees are necessary. If it was challenged by one of these
organizations then I suppose you'd have to supply play lists and sources
that show the tunes are in the traditional domain. Of course if the venue
has other musics other nights then they're probably already paying fees and
you won't be bothered.
It sounds to me like they're using this music licensing bill to make the
pubs come up to modern code standards. I think some of that might be
covered in the yearly fire code/safety type inspections places go through
here anyway. Although... double glazing the windows would be something to
save energy/heating costs wouldn't it?Kathleen--On Tuesday, February 4, 2003 3:26 PM -0800 Dave Eyre
<[unmask]> wrote:>  it is not the performing rights which in GB is PRS
> (Performing Rights Society) is simply the problem of playing music in a
> bar, and the suggestion that playing music in a bar should be a licensable
> activity - not too bad in itself but it is the baggage that comes with it
> that is a real problem - double glazing etc.....It seems strange that the
> most safety-conscious nation in the world (the US) does not seem to need
> this extra legislation!!
>
> PRS is a separate issue and simply as a matter of fact and for
> information, at Holmfirth Festival all our artists submit a set list and
> we pay 3% of our festival's turnover to the PRS which is a nationally
> agreed sum. The sessions which also take place are a different matter of
> course.
>
> Dave
>--
Kathleen Conery
[unmask]

I would like one regardless.  Norm, Dick or whomever... I want a softcover.
How do I get it?All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Norm Cohens new book> Sorry Dan, but there didn't seem to be enough interest for me to apply for
> discount pricing.
>
> dick greenhaus
>
> folkmusic wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Dick.  I look forward to receiving details from you.  This is an
> > area of special interest to me and I'm sure Norm's book is invaluable.
> > All the best,
> > Dan Milner
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: Norm Cohens new book
> >
> > > Hi y'all-
> > > If enough listmembers (and others) want top buy this, CAMSCO may be
able
> > to
> > > supply it at a discount. Let me know if you're interested.
> > >
> > > This is what I've been able to do with the Greig-Duncan Collection and
to
> > the
> > > Sodom Laurel Album.
> > >
> > > dick greenhaus
> > > CAMSCO Music
> > > [unmask]
> > > 800/548-FOLK (3655)
> > >
> > > Ed Cray wrote:
> > >
> > > > Folks:
> > > >
> > > > Barbara points out I should have given a more precise address for
the
> > > > publisher of Norm Cohen's _A Finding List of American Secular
> > Songsters._
> > > >
> > > > I do so now:
> > > >
> > > > Center for Popular Music
> > > > Tennessee State University
> > > > Murfreesboro, TN 37132
> > > >
> > > > The price of the softcover is not listed.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Barbara Boock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Ed Cray,
> > > > > do you happen to have the address of the publisher? In Germany it
is
> > > > > sometimes difficult to find that out. "Long steel rail" is such a
> > > > > marvellous book! Does Norm give any annotations describing the
content
> > of
> > > > > the songsters? I think we should ask for a review copy for our
> > yearbook and
> > > > > we need the book for our library. Yours Barbara
> > > > > Barbara Boock, Bibliothekarin
> > > > > Deutsches Volksliedarchiv
> > > > >     - Arbeitsstelle für internationale Volksliedforschung
> > > > > Silberbachstr. 13
> > > > > D 79100 Freiburg
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel (49) 761 70 50 30
> > > > > Durchwahl  (49) 761 70 50 314
> > > > > Fax (49) 761 70 50 328
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

Of course, strictly speaking this is a disappearing song rather than a
cumulative one... rather appropriate, seeing it's a rabbit!AndyKathleen Conery wrote:
>
> I learned this in scouts (I think), in California, 30+ years ago, and my
> sister, who taught day care for several years in New Hampshire, had kids
> who knew it as well. It seems to be strong here in the States.
> The only difference is a few words.
> "Little" cottage in the woods,
> Saw a rabbit "hopping" by (and do you do rabbit ears with your fingers on
> the bouncy hand?)
> Help me, Help me, Help! he "said" (rhymes with dead then).
> "'Fore the hunter shoots" me dead
> Little Rabbit, come inside (no Come as first word)
> "Safely to abide"
>
> It's done by Morris teams?
>
> Kathleen
>
> --On Sunday, February 2, 2003 9:46 PM -0800 Dave Eyre <[unmask]>
> wrote:
> > So here is another song from the repertoire of Sheffield City Morris. Any
> > light on it and its origins is unknown to us. This one is done with mimed
> > actions and we usually perform it as part of sessions with other dance
> > teams especially foreign teams when we are abroad. The foreign ones often
> > adopt and adapt it and we have met people many years later who just make
> > the "cottage sign" as a "badge" of recognition. The actions are still
> > performed as each line gets dropped off. I'll try and give a flavour of
> > the actions, they are done in rhythm to the words.
> >
> > In a cottage in the wood                    (standard sign for a house
> > with a pointy roof)
> > A little man at the window stood,       (hand to forehead as sheltering
> > eyes from sun, move from left to right)
> > Saw a rabbit passing by                     (like a bouncy ball on words
> > with left hand)
> > Knocking at his door.                        (knocking with right hand)
> >
> > "Help me, help me, help" he  cried                         (hands thrown
> > up in air three times)
> > "all the hunters shoot me dead"                              (rifle to
> > shoulder moving from left to right)
> > Come little rabbit, come inside                              (beckoning
> > sign with forefinger twice)
> > happy we shall be.                                                (baby
> > cradling on arm)
> >
> > Start again missing off last LINE but continue with all actions so that at
> > the end all the actions are mimed.
>
> --
> Kathleen Conery
> [unmask]

Dear Dave,As far as I can see, the answer in Hungary's lowlife Hungarian bars is
"evade and avoid", but I shall ask what the official line is.Cheers,AndyDave Eyre wrote:
>
> I am a bit new to this list so please forgive me if this has been discussed
> before though I suspect not.
>
> It is a bit long so please bear with me......
>
> Currently in England and Wales a bar would need a public entertainment
> license for more than two people in a bar (known as the "Two in a Bar Rule")
> who wished to play music, sing etc.
>
> Through parliament at the moment in England and Wales (ONLY) there is a bill
> to so-called "liberalise" the licensing laws. This is known as the Licensing
> Bill and the new license will be known as a "Premises Licence" and will
> replace the "Two in a Bar Rule".
>
> There are a number of problems with this bill and anyone who would like to
> be bored with the details I can soon pass on a number of websites which will
> put you right on the issue. There is some false information also floating
> about - but generally most things are spot on.
>
> The effect of the bill (Minister's view) is make premises safer by allowing
> a licensee to apply for the "premises licence" at the same time as the
> alcohol licence and to limit the cost. It is a tiny part of the bill but has
> a major effect. Basically anyone wanting to put on live music in a pub (it
> applies anywhere else by the way but it is pubs (bars) I am especially
> concerned with) will need a licence to do it. This is subject to inspection
> by the local authority and they can impose conditions.
>
> And here is the crunch. Those conditions can be amazingly onerous. My local
> bar applied for a licence under the current legislation and was asked for
> £13,000 worth of alterations - double glazing, triple glazing on the windows
> facing houses, sound baffles on extractor fans.........
>
> Now here is the really stupid thing. If that same landlord in that same room
> installs recorded music - jukebox for example - then this does not need a
> licence and therefore does not need the alterations.
>
> The effect will of course be that landlords of pubs will close down sessions
> which need a licence. It also means that things like the pubs where the
> South Yorkshire carols are sung will need a premises licence (it covers
> unaccompanied music as well as that with instruments).
>
> My question to the list is as follows:
>
> This barm pot - it is the Minister of Culture as you might have guessed  -
> claims that "no-one else has come up with a better way of doing it".
>
> The answer from me is that they have, Scotland being the best example!!
>
> But I did wonder if the various members of this list might like to email
> me - off-list if you like - precisely what happens in their
> area/state/country/
>
> It may help us in England and Wales to do some comparisons -so if you meet
> some friends in a bar and play some music - does the premises where this
> takes place - usually a bar of course - need a form of licence?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> There is a petition about this:
>
> http://www.petitiononline.com/2inabar/petition.html
>
> which is up to 64,000 signatures the last time I looked.
>
> The article in the "Dai8ly Telegraph" is here:
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=%2Farts%2F2003%2F01%2F18%2Fb
> m
> bill18.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=24893>
>
> and you may need to register to read it.
>
> Finally there is an article in the "Guardian" which explains the "folk"
> aspect very well:
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,883633,00.html
>
> and I am fairly sure you do not have to register for this.
>
> Thanks you for reading this far if you have and I hope to hear from as many
> places as possible.
>
> Dave
> www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
> www.holmfirthfestival.com
> [unmask]

I also would like a copy of Norm's new book.  If Dick can arrange a
group purchase, all the better.  If Dick's email can smoke out some
other chronic delayers like me, then perhaps a group deal can still be
arranged.However, I did do some web surfing and found the address for the
publisher. I called the listed phone number and was told that the book
could be purchased by sending a check (payable to Middle Tennessee State
University) for $35, plus $3 media mail shipping, to:Center for Popular Music,
Box 41, MTSU
Murfreesboro TN 37132.The telephone number is: 1-615-898-2449.If Dick says that the idea of a group purchase is definitively dead,
then I will send in my check to the publisher.  But in the hope that
other tardy folks like myself will now declare themselves, I will await
further word from Dick.Lew Becker>>> [unmask] 02/04/03 02:53PM >>>
I would like one regardless.  Norm, Dick or whomever... I want a
softcover.
How do I get it?All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 2:06 PM
Subject: Re: Norm Cohens new book> Sorry Dan, but there didn't seem to be enough interest for me to
apply for
> discount pricing.
>
> dick greenhaus
>
> folkmusic wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Dick.  I look forward to receiving details from you.  This
is an
> > area of special interest to me and I'm sure Norm's book is
invaluable.
> > All the best,
> > Dan Milner
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: Norm Cohens new book
> >
> > > Hi y'all-
> > > If enough listmembers (and others) want top buy this, CAMSCO may
be
able
> > to
> > > supply it at a discount. Let me know if you're interested.
> > >
> > > This is what I've been able to do with the Greig-Duncan
Collection and
to
> > the
> > > Sodom Laurel Album.
> > >
> > > dick greenhaus
> > > CAMSCO Music
> > > [unmask]
> > > 800/548-FOLK (3655)
> > >
> > > Ed Cray wrote:
> > >
> > > > Folks:
> > > >
> > > > Barbara points out I should have given a more precise address
for
the
> > > > publisher of Norm Cohen's _A Finding List of American Secular
> > Songsters._
> > > >
> > > > I do so now:
> > > >
> > > > Center for Popular Music
> > > > Tennessee State University
> > > > Murfreesboro, TN 37132
> > > >
> > > > The price of the softcover is not listed.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Barbara Boock wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Ed Cray,
> > > > > do you happen to have the address of the publisher? In
Germany it
is
> > > > > sometimes difficult to find that out. "Long steel rail" is
such a
> > > > > marvellous book! Does Norm give any annotations describing
the
content
> > of
> > > > > the songsters? I think we should ask for a review copy for
our
> > yearbook and
> > > > > we need the book for our library. Yours Barbara
> > > > > Barbara Boock, Bibliothekarin
> > > > > Deutsches Volksliedarchiv
> > > > >     - Arbeitsstelle für internationale Volksliedforschung
> > > > > Silberbachstr. 13
> > > > > D 79100 Freiburg
> > > > >
> > > > > Tel (49) 761 70 50 30
> > > > > Durchwahl  (49) 761 70 50 314
> > > > > Fax (49) 761 70 50 328
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

It may be that I have not explained this properly.This is a separate issue from licensing for "performing rights" as we call
it. In the UK this is the PRS or Performing Rights Society but this is
separate!!They want to license - if you like - going into a bar, taking out a fiddle
and playing it. Indeed it does not just apply to bars but to a lot of places
like an unlicensed restaurant - if they wanted a tinkling piano/harp then
they would need a licence. If you do it for charity, for free and only play
your own music (!!) then it still applies. You will need a licence called a
Premises Licence.Just in case the Minister is reading this - let me be absolutely precise -
if this happens "spontaneously" then it is OK. Announce a session though and
it is no longer "spontaneous" and thus will need a licence.It sounds to me like they're using this music licensing bill to make the
> pubs come up to modern code standards. I think some of that might be
> covered in the yearly fire code/safety type inspections places go through
> here anyway. Although... double glazing the windows would be something to
> save energy/heating costs wouldn't it?That is more like it - BUT - it applies to unamplified music of one fiddle
and NOT to amplified music say one juke box . More importantly for health
and safety it does not apply to Satellite TV and one of the great causes of
public problems of drunkenness in the streets is after major soccer games
shown in bars. And yes I am all in favour of double glazing BUT if the
landlord is mandated to put it in to allow one fiddle player once a week
then that seems a bit onerous to me!! Fine for breaking this is £20,000 and
six months inside.I know explained like this it seems barmy - and so it is.....Dave

Note,Not prs stuff............simply to go into a bar and play..........Err.........it might be nice if you could find out what it was post '56
onwards as well......Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Rouse" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: What happens where you are? Err.... a bit long.....> Dear Dave,
>
> As far as I can see, the answer in Hungary's lowlife Hungarian bars is
> "evade and avoid", but I shall ask what the official line is.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
> Dave Eyre wrote:
> >
> > I am a bit new to this list so please forgive me if this has been
discussed
> > before though I suspect not.
> >
> > It is a bit long so please bear with me......
> >
> > Currently in England and Wales a bar would need a public entertainment
> > license for more than two people in a bar (known as the "Two in a Bar
Rule")
> > who wished to play music, sing etc.
> >
> > Through parliament at the moment in England and Wales (ONLY) there is a
bill
> > to so-called "liberalise" the licensing laws. This is known as the
Licensing
> > Bill and the new license will be known as a "Premises Licence" and will
> > replace the "Two in a Bar Rule".
> >
> > There are a number of problems with this bill and anyone who would like
to
> > be bored with the details I can soon pass on a number of websites which
will
> > put you right on the issue. There is some false information also
floating
> > about - but generally most things are spot on.
> >
> > The effect of the bill (Minister's view) is make premises safer by
allowing
> > a licensee to apply for the "premises licence" at the same time as the
> > alcohol licence and to limit the cost. It is a tiny part of the bill but
has
> > a major effect. Basically anyone wanting to put on live music in a pub
(it
> > applies anywhere else by the way but it is pubs (bars) I am especially
> > concerned with) will need a licence to do it. This is subject to
inspection
> > by the local authority and they can impose conditions.
> >
> > And here is the crunch. Those conditions can be amazingly onerous. My
local
> > bar applied for a licence under the current legislation and was asked
for
> > £13,000 worth of alterations - double glazing, triple glazing on the
windows
> > facing houses, sound baffles on extractor fans.........
> >
> > Now here is the really stupid thing. If that same landlord in that same
room
> > installs recorded music - jukebox for example - then this does not need
a
> > licence and therefore does not need the alterations.
> >
> > The effect will of course be that landlords of pubs will close down
sessions
> > which need a licence. It also means that things like the pubs where the
> > South Yorkshire carols are sung will need a premises licence (it covers
> > unaccompanied music as well as that with instruments).
> >
> > My question to the list is as follows:
> >
> > This barm pot - it is the Minister of Culture as you might have
uessed  -
> > claims that "no-one else has come up with a better way of doing it".
> >
> > The answer from me is that they have, Scotland being the best example!!
> >
> > But I did wonder if the various members of this list might like to email
> > me - off-list if you like - precisely what happens in their
> > area/state/country/
> >
> > It may help us in England and Wales to do some comparisons -so if you
meet
> > some friends in a bar and play some music - does the premises where this
> > takes place - usually a bar of course - need a form of licence?
> >
> > Thanks for your help.
> >
> > There is a petition about this:
> >
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/2inabar/petition.html
> >
> > which is up to 64,000 signatures the last time I looked.
> >
> > The article in the "Dai8ly Telegraph" is here:
> >
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=%2Farts%2F2003%2F01%2F18%2Fb
> > m
> > bill18.xml&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=24893>
> >
> > and you may need to register to read it.
> >
> > Finally there is an article in the "Guardian" which explains the "folk"
> > aspect very well:
> >
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,883633,00.html
> >
> > and I am fairly sure you do not have to register for this.
> >
> > Thanks you for reading this far if you have and I hope to hear from as
many
> > places as possible.
> >
> > Dave
> > www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
> > www.holmfirthfestival.com
> > [unmask]
>
>

For those who like me oppose the notion of "ownership" in any form of
culture, this is merely one more nail in the coffin.  The "commercial music
industry" here makes common cause with those who talk about "intellectual
property" (surely as fine a pair of oxymorons as you'll come across today).
Everything which is not nailed down is owned, and anything you can pry up is
not nailed down.  This is the latest attempt to obtain 100% commercial
ownership of music - even sad solo fiddlers are the target.  The world's
water is now an OK target courtesy of the World Bank - can air be far
behind? My 2 cents.Jon Bartlett----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Eyre" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: What happens where you are? Err.... a bit long.....> It may be that I have not explained this properly.
>
> This is a separate issue from licensing for "performing rights" as we call
> it. In the UK this is the PRS or Performing Rights Society but this is
> separate!!
>
> They want to license - if you like - going into a bar, taking out a fiddle
> and playing it. Indeed it does not just apply to bars but to a lot of
places
> like an unlicensed restaurant - if they wanted a tinkling piano/harp then
> they would need a licence. If you do it for charity, for free and only
play
> your own music (!!) then it still applies. You will need a licence called
a
> Premises Licence.
>
> Just in case the Minister is reading this - let me be absolutely precise -
> if this happens "spontaneously" then it is OK. Announce a session though
and
> it is no longer "spontaneous" and thus will need a licence.
>
> It sounds to me like they're using this music licensing bill to make the
> > pubs come up to modern code standards. I think some of that might be
> > covered in the yearly fire code/safety type inspections places go
through
> > here anyway. Although... double glazing the windows would be something
to
> > save energy/heating costs wouldn't it?
>
> That is more like it - BUT - it applies to unamplified music of one fiddle
> and NOT to amplified music say one juke box . More importantly for health
> and safety it does not apply to Satellite TV and one of the great causes
of
> public problems of drunkenness in the streets is after major soccer games
> shown in bars. And yes I am all in favour of double glazing BUT if the
> landlord is mandated to put it in to allow one fiddle player once a week
> then that seems a bit onerous to me!! Fine for breaking this is £20,000
and
> six months inside.
>
> I know explained like this it seems barmy - and so it is.....
>
> Dave

On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 03:09:24PM -0500, Lewis Becker wrote:
> I also would like a copy of Norm's new book.  If Dick can arrange a
> group purchase, all the better.  If Dick's email can smoke out some
> other chronic delayers like me, then perhaps a group deal can still be
> arranged.
>
> However, I did do some web surfing and found the address for the
> publisher. I called the listed phone number and was told that the book
> could be purchased by sending a check (payable to Middle Tennessee State
> University) for $35, plus $3 media mail shipping, to:
>
> Center for Popular Music,
> Box 41, MTSU
> Murfreesboro TN 37132.
>
> The telephone number is: 1-615-898-2449.
>
> If Dick says that the idea of a group purchase is definitively dead,
> then I will send in my check to the publisher.  But in the hope that
> other tardy folks like myself will now declare themselves, I will await
> further word from Dick.
>
> Lew Becker
>
> >>> [unmask] 02/04/03 02:53PM >>>
> I would like one regardless.  Norm, Dick or whomever... I want a
> softcover.
> How do I get it?
>
> All the best,
> Dan Milner        I think I already wrote to Dick and said I wanted in.  But apparently
was one of only a handfool!  Please, still, include me in -- Aloha, Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask]
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360
*** FRIENDS: If your Reply message is Rejected by my spam-fighting ISP,
please try sending it to: [unmask] OR [unmask]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Bartlett" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: What happens where you are? Err.... a bit long.....> For those who like me oppose the notion of "ownership" in any form of
> culture, this is merely one more nail in the coffin.  The "commercial
music
> industry" here makes common cause with those who talk about "intellectual
> property" (surely as fine a pair of oxymorons as you'll come across
today).
> Everything which is not nailed down is owned, and anything you can pry up
is
> not nailed down.  This is the latest attempt to obtain 100% commercial
> ownership of music - even sad solo fiddlers are the target.  The world's
> water is now an OK target courtesy of the World Bank - can air be far
> behind? My 2 cents.
>
> Jon Bartlett
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Eyre" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:40 PM
> Subject: Re: What happens where you are? Err.... a bit long.....
>
>
> > It may be that I have not explained this properly.
> >
> > This is a separate issue from licensing for "performing rights" as we
call
> > it. In the UK this is the PRS or Performing Rights Society but this is
> > separate!!
> >
> > They want to license - if you like - going into a bar, taking out a
fiddle
> > and playing it. Indeed it does not just apply to bars but to a lot of
> places
> > like an unlicensed restaurant - if they wanted a tinkling piano/harp
then
> > they would need a licence. If you do it for charity, for free and only
> play
> > your own music (!!) then it still applies. You will need a licence
called
> a
> > Premises Licence.
> >
> > Just in case the Minister is reading this - let me be absolutely
precise -
> > if this happens "spontaneously" then it is OK. Announce a session though
> and
> > it is no longer "spontaneous" and thus will need a licence.
> >
> > It sounds to me like they're using this music licensing bill to make the
> > > pubs come up to modern code standards. I think some of that might be
> > > covered in the yearly fire code/safety type inspections places go
> through
> > > here anyway. Although... double glazing the windows would be something
> to
> > > save energy/heating costs wouldn't it?
> >
> > That is more like it - BUT - it applies to unamplified music of one
fiddle
> > and NOT to amplified music say one juke box . More importantly for
health
> > and safety it does not apply to Satellite TV and one of the great causes
> of
> > public problems of drunkenness in the streets is after major soccer
games
> > shown in bars. And yes I am all in favour of double glazing BUT if the
> > landlord is mandated to put it in to allow one fiddle player once a week
> > then that seems a bit onerous to me!! Fine for breaking this is £20,000
> and
> > six months inside.
> >
> > I know explained like this it seems barmy - and so it is.....
> >
> > Dave
>
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hi!        Just two short items. The next list will probably be posted on
Thursday.        1. Here is an auction which is missed the last list and is
ending early.        2706093064 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, 1982, $9.99 (ends
Feb-05-03 21:30:00 PST)        2. This auction appeared today. Does anyone know anything about
these recordings? Are they German copies of something issued by the
Library of Congress or Folkways?        2505835686 - JOHN A LOMAX FIELD RECORDINGS VOLUME 1: VIRGINIA 1936
- 1941 issued on 1997 in Austria, CD format, $9.99 (ends Feb-08-03
22:09:33 PST)                                Thanks!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Rouse <[unmask]><<Of course, strictly speaking this is a disappearing song rather than a
cumulative one... rather appropriate, seeing it's a rabbit!>>In this case, it might be even more appropriate if it was a cat, fading to a
grin.Peace,
Paul

<<They want to license - if you like - going into a bar, taking out a fiddle
and playing it. Indeed it does not just apply to bars but to a lot of places
like an unlicensed restaurant - if they wanted a tinkling piano/harp then
they would need a licence. If you do it for charity, for free and only play
your own music (!!) then it still applies. You will need a licence called a
Premises Licence.>>Rather worse -- if it happens in a church hall it still needs a license (er,
licence), unless it's part of a worship service, which is exempted.I am waiting for the first act of civil disobedience, when someone is
brought up on charges of singing "God Save the Queen".Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hello, all.  There is a poignant anti-war song which I think is associated
with william Motherwell, and I know I need to read Mary Ellen's or Bill's
books, which are still sitting in the sstacks on my desk.  Anyhow, the song
begins:OO wae be tae the order that marched my love awa'
And wae be to the (something) that maks the tears doon fa'
and wae be tae the bitter wars in high Germany.....anyhow, I also recall Ewan MacColl singing it, but don't have a recording.
Iwant to learn it and sing it for an upcoming peace concert.  Could someone,
offlist, post me the lyrics?Many thanks.        MargeE-mail: [unmask]

A great song, usually called High Germany, Marge.  I have that recording and
can make a copy of it for you.  I will try to retrieve it from the vinyl
vault at my mother's home.  I should be there this Saturday.All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "Marge Steiner" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:08 AM
Subject: song lyrics> Hello, all.  There is a poignant anti-war song which I think is associated
> with william Motherwell, and I know I need to read Mary Ellen's or Bill's
> books, which are still sitting in the sstacks on my desk.  Anyhow, the
song
> begins:
>
> OO wae be tae the order that marched my love awa'
> And wae be to the (something) that maks the tears doon fa'
> and wae be tae the bitter wars in high Germany.....
>
> anyhow, I also recall Ewan MacColl singing it, but don't have a recording.
> Iwant to learn it and sing it for an upcoming peace concert.  Could
someone,
> offlist, post me the lyrics?
>
> Many thanks.
>
>         Marge
>
>
> E-mail: [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

If you could E-mail the lyrics to me, that would be better, as the concert
is a week from Thursday.  Many thanks for this.        MargeE-mail: [unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of folkmusic
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:27 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: song lyricsA great song, usually called High Germany, Marge.  I have that recording and
can make a copy of it for you.  I will try to retrieve it from the vinyl
vault at my mother's home.  I should be there this Saturday.All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "Marge Steiner" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:08 AM
Subject: song lyrics> Hello, all.  There is a poignant anti-war song which I think is associated
> with william Motherwell, and I know I need to read Mary Ellen's or Bill's
> books, which are still sitting in the sstacks on my desk.  Anyhow, the
song
> begins:
>
> OO wae be tae the order that marched my love awa'
> And wae be to the (something) that maks the tears doon fa'
> and wae be tae the bitter wars in high Germany.....
>
> anyhow, I also recall Ewan MacColl singing it, but don't have a recording.
> Iwant to learn it and sing it for an upcoming peace concert.  Could
someone,
> offlist, post me the lyrics?
>
> Many thanks.
>
>         Marge
>
>
> E-mail: [unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Hiya, Dan.  John Moulden just posted me the lyrics.  Boy, the wonders of the
internet!  Now snail-mail is really snail-mail!  Wow!Thanks much for the offer.I'll probably be coming to New York for the big peace march on the
fifteenth, but will only be there long enough to march, I think.  It would
be good to see you again, though, and to share a song or two.Anyhow, take care, andthanks much.        MargeE-mail: [unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of folkmusic
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:27 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: song lyricsA great song, usually called High Germany, Marge.  I have that recording and
can make a copy of it for you.  I will try to retrieve it from the vinyl
vault at my mother's home.  I should be there this Saturday.All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "Marge Steiner" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:08 AM
Subject: song lyrics> Hello, all.  There is a poignant anti-war song which I think is associated
> with william Motherwell, and I know I need to read Mary Ellen's or Bill's
> books, which are still sitting in the sstacks on my desk.  Anyhow, the
song
> begins:
>
> OO wae be tae the order that marched my love awa'
> And wae be to the (something) that maks the tears doon fa'
> and wae be tae the bitter wars in high Germany.....
>
> anyhow, I also recall Ewan MacColl singing it, but don't have a recording.
> Iwant to learn it and sing it for an upcoming peace concert.  Could
someone,
> offlist, post me the lyrics?
>
> Many thanks.
>
>         Marge
>
>
> E-mail: [unmask]

While it's not new (published 1996), I think Robert Isbell's "Ray Hicks"
is worth mentioning. It's a soft-covered, 175 page book  which won the
1997 Willie Parker Peace Historical book award of the North Carolina
Society of Historians and the 1997 Thomas Wolfe Literary Award of the
Western North Carolina Historical Association.
     It's an engagingly written portrait of Ray Hicks, his family and
his world. It makes, (IMO) a wonderful companion to the newly-rereleased
Folk-Legacy recording of Ray.
    $16.95 list; $16.95 at Barnes & Noble; $13.75 from CAMSCO.CAMSCO doesn't generally deal with books, but I'm trying to set up  as a
sort of middle man for a sort of buyers co-op. If more than one or two
people want a particular book, I can generally provide it at a
significant discount. Further, if I'm already set up as a dealer with
any particular publisher, I can get even single book orders from that
publisher at a discount. F'rinstance, I've been selling the excellent
Sodom Laurel Album (from University of North Carolina Press) for $32,
instead of the list price of $45. I can get any other book from this
publisher at discounted prices. This includes the Ray Hicks/Storyteller
book described above and Meade's "Country Music Sources" which I sell at
$70 rather than the list price of $90.
I also carry the Greig-Duncan Folk Music Collection (all 8 volumes) and
the Loomis House Child.Unfortunately, I'm not really up on what books this list might be
interest in--you guys know the field much better than I do. If anyone is
looking for anything, why not send in a posting stating that interest,
and see if anyone else shares it.dick greenhaus
CAMSCO MusicPS- I've just received Mike Yates'  CDs of "Scottish Travellers' Tales"
(actually songs, ballads and tales.) Fine stuff. To CDs, with Stanley
Robertson, Duncan Williamson and William Williamson.
$18 each (2 CDs)If this type of announcement is considered to be a mis-use of the list,
please let me know and I'll stop. A couple of members have asked me to
post this kind of stuff, and I'm (hesitantly) doing it.

Dick and Friends:Simply put, such commercial notices are a service to those of us who do
not subscribe to folklore journals (which are a year or two late in
reviewing books anyway).Ed

IMHO it is NOT a use of the list.I do second hand books and records (so clearly I am biased) but surely
helping others to find stuff they want whatever medium that information is
on...........book, record, internet, cd, video, DVD, cassette, inside the
mind.....is the really important thing.Dave--- Original Message -----
From: "dick greenhaus" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:54 AM
Subject: Blatant Semi-Commercial Announcement> While it's not new (published 1996), I think Robert Isbell's "Ray Hicks"
> is worth mentioning. It's a soft-covered, 175 page book  which won the
> 1997 Willie Parker Peace Historical book award of the North Carolina
> Society of Historians and the 1997 Thomas Wolfe Literary Award of the
> Western North Carolina Historical Association.
>      It's an engagingly written portrait of Ray Hicks, his family and
> his world. It makes, (IMO) a wonderful companion to the newly-rereleased
> Folk-Legacy recording of Ray.
>     $16.95 list; $16.95 at Barnes & Noble; $13.75 from CAMSCO.
>
> CAMSCO doesn't generally deal with books, but I'm trying to set up  as a
> sort of middle man for a sort of buyers co-op. If more than one or two
> people want a particular book, I can generally provide it at a
> significant discount. Further, if I'm already set up as a dealer with
> any particular publisher, I can get even single book orders from that
> publisher at a discount. F'rinstance, I've been selling the excellent
> Sodom Laurel Album (from University of North Carolina Press) for $32,
> instead of the list price of $45. I can get any other book from this
> publisher at discounted prices. This includes the Ray Hicks/Storyteller
> book described above and Meade's "Country Music Sources" which I sell at
> $70 rather than the list price of $90.
> I also carry the Greig-Duncan Folk Music Collection (all 8 volumes) and
> the Loomis House Child.
>
>
> Unfortunately, I'm not really up on what books this list might be
> interest in--you guys know the field much better than I do. If anyone is
> looking for anything, why not send in a posting stating that interest,
> and see if anyone else shares it.
>
> dick greenhaus
> CAMSCO Music
>
> PS- I've just received Mike Yates'  CDs of "Scottish Travellers' Tales"
> (actually songs, ballads and tales.) Fine stuff. To CDs, with Stanley
> Robertson, Duncan Williamson and William Williamson.
> $18 each (2 CDs)
>
>
> If this type of announcement is considered to be a mis-use of the list,
> please let me know and I'll stop. A couple of members have asked me to
> post this kind of stuff, and I'm (hesitantly) doing it.
>
>

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

John Mehlberg =^..^= wrote:
>
> Here is a link to my zipped OCRed version of the 1800 first
> edition _Merry
> Muses of Caledonia_.    The zipped (116k) file contains two
> versions of the
> _Merry Muses_ one in HTML and one in Rich Text Format (.rtf).
>
> http://mehlberg.com/1800_merry_muses_of_caledonia.zip
>I've added a file in section two on my website identifying
sources of the tunes for songs in 'The Merry Muses of
California'. There are several songs from it in the Scarce Songs
1 and 2 files on my website, and in all about 2 dozen ABCs of the
tunes (some in several variant copies) in files S1.ABC, S2.ABC
and among the broadside ballad tunes there.Here are three tune directions in 'The Merry Muses' that I take
to be incorrect:1: Maggie Lauder (wrong, should be "He till't and she till't",
   same as song title)
2: Birks of Abergeldie (wrong, should be "How can I keep my
   maidenhead", same as song title, also known as "Lenox Love to
   Blantyre"
3: Sir Arch Grant's Strathspey ["Moniemusk"] (wrong, should be
  "Sir Alex Don's Strathspey"/"[new] Auld Lang Syne"Those following are those I don't have, or am uncertain about. Any
help here would be appreciated.She's hoy'd me out of' Lauderdale, p. 7; no tune indicated,
  but burden is like "Greensleeves" in Hecht's Herd, and I think
  "Greensleeves" is probably the tune.Will ye na can ye na let me be, p. 21; Tune - I ha'e laid  three
  herrin' in sa't [Tune in Caledonian Muse, & v. 2 of Kerr's
  Merry Melodies, which I haven't seen]The Jolly Gauger, p. 31; Tune - We'll gang nae mair a rovin [I
  don't know this tune]The Yellow Yellow Yorlin, p. 47; Tune - Bonnie beds of Roses  [I
  don't know this tune. ["The beds of sweet Roses", SMM #7
  doesn't seem to fit. A tune "Beds of Roses" is in McGlashan's
  Reels, but I don't have a copy.Tweedmouth Town, p. 118; no tune indicated [its own?]:Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:23:54PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:        [ ... ]> > Here is a link to my zipped OCRed version of the 1800 first
> > edition _Merry
> > Muses of Caledonia_.    The zipped (116k) file contains two        [ ... ]> I've added a file in section two on my website identifying
> sources of the tunes for songs in 'The Merry Muses of
> California'. <<<<<-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
  ^^^^^^^^^^Umm ... Bruce,        I think that you have been done a disservice by your spelling
checker.  You've *really* got to be careful about those Microsoft
programs which think that they know more about what you're trying to say
than you do. :-)        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:23:54PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
>         [ ... ]
>
> > > Here is a link to my zipped OCRed version of the 1800 first
> > > edition _Merry
> > > Muses of Caledonia_.    The zipped (116k) file contains two
>
>         [ ... ]
>
> > I've added a file in section two on my website identifying
> > sources of the tunes for songs in 'The Merry Muses of
> > California'. <<<<<-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>   ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Umm ... Bruce,
>
>         I think that you have been done a disservice by your spelling
> checker.  You've *really* got to be careful about those Microsoft
> programs which think that they know more about what you're trying to say
> than you do. :-)
>
>         Enjoy,
>                 DoN.
>
> --
>  Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
>         (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
>            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---Good Lord! How did I come up with California for Caledonia? I can't
blame it on a spellchecker. I must have typed out Caledonia about a
dozen times in the last 3 days. My brain must have decided it needed
some variety.Bruce Olson
 --
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

>  'The Merry Muses of
> > > California'.I think the merry muses would find opportunities to inspire delightful
bawdry in California.

Don:No, it IS "Merry Muses of California," my collection of bawdy songs sung
in silent movies.Ed CrayOn Wed, 5 Feb 2003, DoN. Nichols wrote:> On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:23:54PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
>         [ ... ]
>
> > > Here is a link to my zipped OCRed version of the 1800 first
> > > edition _Merry
> > > Muses of Caledonia_.    The zipped (116k) file contains two
>
>         [ ... ]
>
> > I've added a file in section two on my website identifying
> > sources of the tunes for songs in 'The Merry Muses of
> > California'. <<<<<-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>   ^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Umm ... Bruce,
>
>         I think that you have been done a disservice by your spelling
> checker.  You've *really* got to be careful about those Microsoft
> programs which think that they know more about what you're trying to say
> than you do. :-)
>
>         Enjoy,
>                 DoN.
>
> --
>  Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
>         (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
>            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
>

As played on silent radio...Ed Cray wrote:> Don:
>
> No, it IS "Merry Muses of California," my collection of bawdy songs sung
> in silent movies.
>
> Ed Cray
>
> On Wed, 5 Feb 2003, DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 06:23:54PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
> >
> >         [ ... ]
> >
> > > > Here is a link to my zipped OCRed version of the 1800 first
> > > > edition _Merry
> > > > Muses of Caledonia_.    The zipped (116k) file contains two
> >
> >         [ ... ]
> >
> > > I've added a file in section two on my website identifying
> > > sources of the tunes for songs in 'The Merry Muses of
> > > California'. <<<<<-----<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> >   ^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Umm ... Bruce,
> >
> >         I think that you have been done a disservice by your spelling
> > checker.  You've *really* got to be careful about those Microsoft
> > programs which think that they know more about what you're trying to say
> > than you do. :-)
> >
> >         Enjoy,
> >                 DoN.
> >
> > --
> >  Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
> >         (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> >            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
> >

Hi!        As I watch the snow come down, here is the weekly Ebay list.        SONGSTERS        2156815350 - Harrigan and Hart's Vol.6 No. 101 Mulligan Guard
Picnic Songster, 1880, $19.40 (ends Feb-07-03 19:45:00 PST)        3205775067 - Merchants Gargling Oil Songster, 1887, $9.99 (ends
Feb-08-03 13:57:53 PST)        2505787397 - Patterson's Ideal Songster, $4 (ends Feb-10-03
17:53:42 PST)        2505852992 - One Touch of Nature Makes the Whole World Kin
Songster, $1.99 (ends Feb-11-03 03:12:00 PST)        3206498153 - Merchants Gargling Oil Songster, 1888, $3 (ends
Feb-13-03 09:53:41 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        2705724199 - TRADITIONAL BALLADS OF VIRGINIA by Davis, 1929,
$32.67 (ends Feb-07-03 15:11:20 PST)        2156825405 - Negro Songs, $5 (ends Feb-07-03 15:23:22 PST)        2505084005 - Look Away: 56 Negro Folk Songs, 1963, $1 (ends
Feb-07-03 19:11:00 PST)        2505205735 - Woody Guthrie-American Folksong, 1947, $20.50 (ends
Feb-08-03 07:17:37 PST)        2505223552 - Songs & Ballads From Nova Scotia by Creighton, 1966
edition, $4 (ends Feb-08-03 09:11:05 PST)        3205547718 - Aloha by ?, 1945, $20 (ends Feb-09-03 15:57:02 PST)        2706909716 - Some Current Folk-Songs of The Negro by Thomas,
1936 reprint, $19.99 (ends Feb-09-03 16:22:18 PST)        2706918948 - Cowboy Songs and Other Frontier Ballads by Lomax,
1911, $194.99 (ends Feb-09-03 16:42:47 PST)
        also 2506266091 1927 edition, $2.50 (ends Feb-10-03 21:29:35
PST)        2706919126 - Swing and Turn: Texas Play - Party Games by Owens,
1936, $99.99 (ends Feb-09-03 16:43:11 PST)        2705866612 - THE BALLAD MATRIX: PERSONALITY, MILIEU, AND THE
ORAL TRADITION by McCarthy, 1990, 45 (ends Feb-09-03 18:46:09 PST)        2504903961 - 2 "country music" songbooks, 1938, $9.99 (ends
Feb-09-03 20:00:00 PST)        2505678534 - One Hundred English Folksongs by Sharp, 1989 Dover
edition, $1.25 (ends Feb-10-03 08:20:24 PST)        2707394196 - Singing Games and PlayParty Games by Chase, 1967
Dover edition, $1 (ends Feb-10-03 19:43:15 PST)        2505825656 - 2 "cowboy & mountain songs" songbooks, $5.99 (ends
Feb-10-03 20:37:48 PST)        2157475134 - On The Trail Of Negro Folk-Songs by Scarborough,
1925, $19.95 (ends Feb-11-03 02:00:17 PST)        2708153025 - AMERICAN BALLADS AND SONGS by Pound, 1972 re-issue,
$9.99 (ends Feb-12-03 20:45:37 PST)        2707633484 - IRISH BALLADS AND SONGS OF THE SEA by Healy, 4.99
GBP (ends Feb-14-03 14:02:18 PST)
        also 2707806104 1987 reprint $6.95 (ends Feb-14-03 20:57:00 PST)        2706707107 - Reliques of Ancient English Poetry by Percy, 1860
printing, $4.99 (ends Feb-14-03 17:09:00 PST)        2707825180 - English Songs and Ballads by Crosland, 1907, $9.80
AU (ends Feb-14-03 22:49:59 PST)
        also 2707441539 1927 printing, 4.99 GBP (ends Feb-13-03 23:12:03
PST)        2708268582 - A BALLAD HISTORY OF ENGLAND by Palmer, 1979, 3 GBP
(ends Feb-16-03 04:48:02 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        3309765817 - Chase the Devil: Religious Music of the
Appalachians, DVD, $15.99 (ends Feb-08-03 16:05:08 PST)        2706436109 - The Sword Dances of Northern England by Sharp, $3
(ends Feb-08-03 23:30:00 PST)        2157357284 - broadside with advertising on one side and the song
Daisy Deane on the other, 1868, $9.95 (ends Feb-10-03 13:24:04 PST)                Hope that you find something here of interest!
                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

In April of '01, Sid Taylor sent my the following net joke.It was getting a little crowded in Heaven, so God decided to change the
admittance policy. The new law was: in order to get Into Heaven, you had
to    have had a really bumper day on the day that you died. The policy
would go   into effect at noon the next day. So, the next day at 12:01,
the first person came to the gates of Heaven. The Angel at the gate,
remembering the   new policy, promptly asked the man,  "Before I let you
in, I need you to tell me how your day was going when you died.""No problem" the man said. "I came home to my 25th floor apartment on my
lunch hour and caught my wife having an affair but her lover was nowhere
in    sight. I immediately began searching for him. My wife was half-naked
and yelling at me as I searched the entire apartment. Just as I was about
to give up, I happened to glance out onto the balcony and noticed that
there  was a man hanging off the edge by his fingertips! The nerve of that
guy!Well, I ran out onto the balcony and stomped on his fingers until he fell
to the ground. But wouldn't you know it, he landed in some trees and
bushes that broke his fall and he didn't die. This ticked me off even
more.  In a rage, I went back inside to get the first thing I could get my
hands on to throw at him. Oddly enough, the first thing I thought of was
the refrigerator. I unplugged it, pushed it out onto the balcony and
flipped it over the side. It plummeted 25 stories and crushed him! The
excitement of the moment was so great that I had a heart attack and died
almost instantly."The angel sat back and thought a moment.  Technically, the guy did have a
bad day - it was a crime of passion. So, the Angel announces, "OK sir.
Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven," and lets him in.A few seconds later the next guy comes up. To the Angel's surprise it was
Vernon Jordan.  "Mr. Jordan, before I can let you in, I need to hear about
what your day was like when you died. Jordan said, "No problem. But you're
not going to believe this. I was on the balcony of my 26th floor apartment
doing my daily exercises. I had been under a lot of pressure so I was
really pushing hard to relieve my stress. I guess I got a little carried
away, slipped, and accidentally fell over the side! Luckily, I was able to
catch myself by the fingertips on the balcony below mine. But all of a
sudden this crazy man comes running out of his apartment, starts cussing,
and stomps on my fingers. Well, of course, I fell. I hit some trees and
bushes at the bottom which broke my fall so I didn't die right away. As
I'm laying there, face up on the ground, unable to move, and in
excruciating pain, I see this guy push his refrigerator, of all things,
off the balcony. It falls the 25 floors and lands on top of me, killing me
instantly."The Angel is quietly laughing to himself as Jordan finishes his story.  "I
could get used to this new policy," he thinks to himself.  "Very well,"
the Angel announces "welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven," and he lets Jordan
enter.A few seconds later, President Clinton comes up to the gate. The Angel is
almost too shocked to speak. Thoughts of assassination and war poured
through the Angel's head.  Finally he said, "Mr. President, please tell me
what it was like the day you died."  Clinton says, "OK, picture this. I'm
sitting inside a refrigerator, naked, minding my own business...."====
Ok. But The Spouse's cousin Charlie, keeping us informed on the latest
going around the web, sent it yesterday (without any political references)
and put it back in my mind.It much reminds me of "The Man in the Kraut Tub" as reported by Richard
Chase.  He picked it up in North Carolina. There's no date but the
collection is printed 1956.  On telling it, Chase was informed it is the
same as Boccaccio, 2nd story, 7th day (c.1350).  The Boccaccio story is
simpler and only has one lover plus husband and wife.The Man in the Kraut TubOne time a man went to see a woman. She was married, but this feller he
knew that, and he had a pretty good notion, too, that her husband wasn't
at home that night.She let him in the house but he hadn't hardly sat down before somebody
stepped up on the porch and made for the door. That feller headed for a
big kraut tub was there in one corner and jumped in it. Scrouged down out
of sight.But it wasn't her husband. It was another feller had heard her man had
gone off for the night. So he came on in and sat down by the fire. Talked
a while, but right then they heard somebody else stompin' across the
porch. The woman jumped up, whispered, "That's my man for sure!"That second feller he didn't have time to hide. He slipped over and
grabbed hold on that kraut tub, tilted it and started rollin' it out just
as the woman's husband walked in the house. "Thank ye, ma'm, for makin' my
wife the loan of your kraut tub."And the man of the house held the door open for him while he rolled it
out.He edged it down the steps and rolled it on down the road. Set it up when
he got out of sight of the house and started wipin' the sweat. Went to
mumblin' to himself, says, "Well, I got out of that snap mighty damned
easy."The other man poked his head up out of the tub, says, "By dad, you didn't
get out of it half as slick as I did."-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

I have an even stupider question. I don't need to field record
songs -- but I need to play them.Here's the situation. My old, old stereo system died over the
weekend. My father, the electrical engineer, is of the opinion
that it's one of the electrolytic capacitors in the power system,
and that it's going to be difficult to locate, and that -- given
that it's fifteen or more years old -- it's not worth repairing.That leaves replacement.The problem is, I need this thing to play LPs. I have a perfectly
good turntable, but -- according to my father, anyway -- ordinary
amplifiers no longer have phono inputs; you have to move up to
a high-end amplifier ($300-$400 minimum, typically $600).And I should add that, while I'd like to get a working stereo
system, it's not absolutely necessary. What I *need* is the
ability amplify the output from the turntable and feed it into
the computer. From there I can burn it to CD, and play the
CDs on a boombox.So: Should an amplifier with a phono input really cost that
much, and if it should, is there a cheaper alternative?Suggestions welcome.--
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

On Mon, Feb 10, 2003 at 12:01:20PM -0600, Robert B. Waltz wrote:        [ ... ]> I have an even stupider question. I don't need to field record
> songs -- but I need to play them.
>
> Here's the situation. My old, old stereo system died over the
> weekend. My father, the electrical engineer, is of the opinion
> that it's one of the electrolytic capacitors in the power system,
> and that it's going to be difficult to locate, and that -- given
> that it's fifteen or more years old -- it's not worth repairing.
>
> That leaves replacement.
>
> The problem is, I need this thing to play LPs. I have a perfectly
> good turntable, but -- according to my father, anyway -- ordinary
> amplifiers no longer have phono inputs; you have to move up to
> a high-end amplifier ($300-$400 minimum, typically $600).
>
> And I should add that, while I'd like to get a working stereo
> system, it's not absolutely necessary. What I *need* is the
> ability amplify the output from the turntable and feed it into
> the computer. From there I can burn it to CD, and play the
> CDs on a boombox.
>
> So: Should an amplifier with a phono input really cost that
> much, and if it should, is there a cheaper alternative?        What kind of phono cartridge do you have?  Any quality one will
have too low a signal level for the inputs on a modern amplifier, but
what you *really* need is a *pre*amp.  That way, you can boost the
signal to a sufficient level to feed into the aux input of any
amplifier.  The really cheap phono cartridges had sufficient signal
level to drive things directly, but the sylus force was enough to damage
records rather quickly.        I would suggest eBay is probably the best bet.        Auction #3005647480 is about to close (13 minutes), so you will
almost certainly miss that one.  It is at $150.00 at the moment.)        3006146529 looks more affordable, and is small and
single-purpose.  But it closes in 54 minutes        3005673200 appears to be the same, but with an hour and 54
minutes.        There are a bunch more, all closing at about the same time, and
with buy-it-now prices around $20.99.        My search criteria were "+Preamp +phono".  You might want to add
a selector to keep it below $25.00, and you should find all of these.        It looks as though the same item is being sold for even less in
later auctions.  #3007066698 closes in 4 days 22 hours -- but it doesn't
have the buy-it-now option -- and reserve is not yet met.  It looks like
the same seller.  I would suggest a bid of about $25.00 and that should
get it.  There are tons of them.  I don't know that they are the quality
which I would like -- though they may well be.        Aha -- here is one with a buy-it-now, auction #3006413584, with
a starting price of $24.50, and a buy-it-now of $24.95.        Good Luck,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Problem is, a non-phono amplifier won't have the equalization circuitry
needed to play phonograph records. I recently (last year) bought an
ONKYO TS-DS484 which handles all kinds of digital and analog inputs
(including phono), and cost me (as I recall) under $200. Works fine.dick greenhaus"Robert B. Waltz" wrote:> I have an even stupider question. I don't need to field record
> songs -- but I need to play them.
>
> Here's the situation. My old, old stereo system died over the
> weekend. My father, the electrical engineer, is of the opinion
> that it's one of the electrolytic capacitors in the power system,
> and that it's going to be difficult to locate, and that -- given
> that it's fifteen or more years old -- it's not worth repairing.
>
> That leaves replacement.
>
> The problem is, I need this thing to play LPs. I have a perfectly
> good turntable, but -- according to my father, anyway -- ordinary
> amplifiers no longer have phono inputs; you have to move up to
> a high-end amplifier ($300-$400 minimum, typically $600).
>
> And I should add that, while I'd like to get a working stereo
> system, it's not absolutely necessary. What I *need* is the
> ability amplify the output from the turntable and feed it into
> the computer. From there I can burn it to CD, and play the
> CDs on a boombox.
>
> So: Should an amplifier with a phono input really cost that
> much, and if it should, is there a cheaper alternative?
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> --
> Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
> 1078 Colne Street
> Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
> 651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]
>
> The Ballad Index Web Site:
> http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Bob:I had the same problem.  I solved it by buying a $35 pre-amp which is
strong enough to drive the two bookcase speakers I use in my office, and
has an output to plug into the computer, and an earphone jack.Plug your turntable directly into the pre-amp and go.I got my pre-amp at Best Buy.  Radio Shack will have something as well.EdOn Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Robert B. Waltz wrote:> I have an even stupider question. I don't need to field record
> songs -- but I need to play them.
>
> Here's the situation. My old, old stereo system died over the
> weekend. My father, the electrical engineer, is of the opinion
> that it's one of the electrolytic capacitors in the power system,
> and that it's going to be difficult to locate, and that -- given
> that it's fifteen or more years old -- it's not worth repairing.
>
> That leaves replacement.
>
> The problem is, I need this thing to play LPs. I have a perfectly
> good turntable, but -- according to my father, anyway -- ordinary
> amplifiers no longer have phono inputs; you have to move up to
> a high-end amplifier ($300-$400 minimum, typically $600).
>
> And I should add that, while I'd like to get a working stereo
> system, it's not absolutely necessary. What I *need* is the
> ability amplify the output from the turntable and feed it into
> the computer. From there I can burn it to CD, and play the
> CDs on a boombox.
>
> So: Should an amplifier with a phono input really cost that
> much, and if it should, is there a cheaper alternative?
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> --
> Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
> 1078 Colne Street
> Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
> 651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]
>
> The Ballad Index Web Site:
> http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert B. Waltz <[unmask]><<I have an even stupider question. I don't need to field record
songs -- but I need to play them.Here's the situation. My old, old stereo system died over the
weekend. My father, the electrical engineer, is of the opinion
that it's one of the electrolytic capacitors in the power system,
and that it's going to be difficult to locate, and that -- given
that it's fifteen or more years old -- it's not worth repairing.>>What kind of amplifier are we talking about? First off, electrolytics aren't
all that hard to come by -- Digi-Key Electronics, in Thief River Falls, MN,
has hundreds of different values, all brand new, and Allied Electronics (God
knows where their offices are these days, I think in Texas) has hundreds
more. Frankly, any decent stereo repair place should be able to do the job
for under $100 labor, if it's just an electrolytic, and the parts shouldn't
be much. So, again, what kind of receiver (or amp, or preamp) is it, and was
it working okay otherwise?<<That leaves replacement.The problem is, I need this thing to play LPs. I have a perfectly
good turntable, but -- according to my father, anyway -- ordinary
amplifiers no longer have phono inputs; you have to move up to
a high-end amplifier ($300-$400 minimum, typically $600).And I should add that, while I'd like to get a working stereo
system, it's not absolutely necessary. What I *need* is the
ability amplify the output from the turntable and feed it into
the computer. From there I can burn it to CD, and play the
CDs on a boombox.So: Should an amplifier with a phono input really cost that
much, and if it should, is there a cheaper alternative?>>Welll...NAD makes amplifiers, preamps, receivers, etc. that have phono
inputs. Some of them are pretty reasonably priced. At a slightly higher
price, Harman-Kardon makes receivers with phono inputs too. If one goes bad,
however, their service stinks. (I speak as service manager of a store that
sells Harman-Kardon.)There are also cheap phono preamps available, on the order of $40 - $100. I
think Radio Shack still sells one. They're pretty cheesy, but they work.
Other companies make stand-alone preamps; do a Google search for "phono
preamp" and all sorts of things will come up. They can plug directly into
your computer, or into an AUX input on a receiver/amplifier. The companies
Esoteric Audio and Needle Doctor both carry phono preamps at varying prices.Finally, of course, you could buy a decent used preamp, integrated amp or
receiver on e-bay. Caveat emptor, but I've gotten some more than decent
things there. I'd be glad to advise on particular brands and models.
Thinking about it, this is probably your best shot if the piece is in good
condition.Just for reference, I use a 1958-vintage Dynaco tubed preamp that I've had
for 20 years; I cleaned it up and added a buffer for driving tape recorders
(and now, computer soundcards). It works great and sounds great. There's
lots of good stuff out there with decades of service left.Peace,
Paul

Folks:I forward this without comment, for your information.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:44:18 -0600
From: Robert Cogswell <[unmask]>
Reply-To: Public Sector Folklore List <[unmask]>
To: [unmask]
Subject: Upcoming title on African American music historyThe first book from Lynn Abbott's and Doug Seroff's diligent research on
pre-phonograph Black music is finally reaching print.  Entitled "Out of
Sight:  The Rise of African American Popular Music, 1889-1895," it's due
out from University Press of Mississippi in a couple of weeks.  Some
folklorists will be familiar with Doug's fine work with quartets, but if
you don't follow the likes of 78 Quarterly and the British roots music
publications, you may not be aware of his more recent research crusade
with Lynn.  They've been combing period primary sources for years now and
turning up lots of information unknown to recent scholarship.  Be on the
lookout for this.Roby

Hi folks:I collected a very nice example of the folk process while I was at Folk
Alliance. Fred Starner, who's been around the folk world since I was a
teenager at least, came to a singaround with a song called "Down the Road I
Go" that he'd learned from Cathy Barton & Dave Para, who are from Missouri.
Except that he'd forgotten all the verses, so he wrote new ones in the same
general spirit. Without realizing it, he had also rewritten the chorus --
words and tune. He saw Cathy & Dave at the Wheatland folk festival and told
them he'd been singing the song he'd learned from them, "Down the Road I
Go". Dave said, "Fred, we don't sing a song by that name." Fred started
singing it, and Dave stopped him and said, "No, Fred -- it's 'Down the RIVER
I Go'." The two choruses:Fred's chorus:Down the road, down the road, down the road I go (2x)Cathy & Dave's chorus:Down the river I go, Uncle Joe, down the river I go (2x)What made it doubly neat was that I had originally taught the song to Cathy
and Dave. So it came full circle. (I got it from the Double Decker String
Band, by the way, who learned it from a field recording.)Peace,
Paul"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead

-------Original Message-------
From: Paul Stamler <[unmask]>
Sent: 02/11/03 01:05 PM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Folk Process in Action Hi folks:I collected a very nice example of the folk process while I was at Folk Alliance. Fred Starner, who's been around the folk world since I was a teenager at least, came to a singaround with a song called "Down the Road I Go" that he'd learned from Cathy Barton & Dave Para, who are from Missouri.
Except that he'd forgotten all the verses, so he wrote new ones in the same general spirit. Without realizing it, he had also rewritten the chorus -- words and tune. He saw Cathy & Dave at the Wheatland folk festival and told them he'd been singing the song he'd learned from them, "Down the Road I Go". Dave said, "Fred, we don't sing a song by that name." Fred started
singing it, and Dave stopped him and said, "No, Fred -- it's 'Down the RIVER
I Go'." The two choruses:Fred's chorus:
Down the road, down the road, down the road I go (2x)Cathy & Dave's chorus:Down the river I go, Uncle Joe, down the river I go (2x)What made it doubly neat was that I had originally taught the song to Cathy and Dave. So it came full circle. (I got it from the Double Decker String
Band, by the way, who learned it from a field recording.)Peace,
Paul"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
I haven't seen Fred Starner since my honeymoon in 1970. I had heard he was at Wisconsin. A couple of Fred stories. Then one on me.Fred always sang Pete Seeger songs, not listening to Pete's advice to learn from who he learned from, not from him. In the sixties folk scare I often found myself together with him. I always looked for tradition even then but I shared the inability to get a tune/words right. So what we have here is if you learned the songs off record you may get it reasonably correct but if you learn it live/ taped you may miss it.After Fred participated with the first Clearwater crew he must have figured out that he couldn't sing only Pete Seeger songs with Pete in residence. As I recall Gordon Bok was there and Fred's wife Barbara was the cook.Pete hadn't done many concerts at OSU. In 1952 the Weavers had been scheduled for the Ohio State Fair a mile away. When they were canceled it was the high point of the McCarthy blacklist. See Sing Out of that year. His next concert schedule was in 1958 at OSU with Sonny Terry. My father gave me his comps and I took a friend. (Was Dad  scared to be seen attending a concert in the blacklist era?) The program was essentially the Carnegie hall concert as recorded on Folkways. When Fred brought Pete back to OSU in winter 1966  I was in Peace Corps training.I attended the penultimate Fox Hollow in 1974. From a tape I learned Hermit Bird by David Griffiths as sung by George and Vaughn Ward. I must have combined the harmony and melody into my melody line and that version became popular in Rochester. I was so happy that I got to sing the song at a Fox Hollow reunion in which George and Vaughn followed my performance with the proper one. See the  Golden Link Songbook in which both versions are presented.

Hi!        Here I am again with another list for old music book fanatics!
        This is part 1 of this week's list. The second part will be
posted during the weekend while I watch the snow come down.        SONGSTERS        3206498153 - Merchants Gargling Oil Songster, 1888, $3 (ends
Feb-13-03 09:53:41 PST)        2506972504 - Dick Sands' Songster, $6 (ends Feb-14-03 15:13:28
PST)        3500162444 - McDougall's British Songster, ca 1900, $9.99 (ends
Feb-15-03 06:45:21 PST)        2507236750 - 3 songsters dated 1882 & 1883, $9.99 (ends
Feb-15-03 20:31:32 PST)        3500622975 - Harrison & Reid campaign songster, 1892, $5.99
(ends Feb-17-03 11:49:42 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        2708566255 - Folk Songs of Old New England by Linscott, 1962,
$25 (Buy Now) (ends Feb-13-03 12:34:42 PST)        2506527934 - antilles songs and comptines, 1975, $5 (Buy Now)
(ends Feb-13-03 13:05:21 PST)        2506559798 - Scots Minstrelsie by Grieg, 6 volumes, 1893, $29.99
(ends Feb-13-03 14:06:13 PST)
        also 2708993151 $35 w/reserve (ends Feb-13-03 19:41:38 PST)        2708718511 - English Music Printing 1553 - 1700 by Krummel,
1975, 4.99 GBP (ends Feb-13-03 15:32:48 PST)        2507220327 - American Negro Songs by Work, $24.99 (ends
Feb-15-03 18:53:49 PST)        2507237002 - Richard Brome's Jovial Crew Ballad Opera, 1760, $19
(ends Feb-15-03 20:33:45 PST)        3207433868 - A Book of Songs, Advance-Rumley Thresher Co, no
date given, $15.49 (ends Feb-16-03 11:38:42 PST)        2507433826 - Roll and Go: Songs of the American Sailormen by
Colcord, 1924, $20 (ends Feb-16-03 14:26:48 PST)        2158874061 - SPIRITUAL FOLK-SONGS OF EARLY AMERICA by Jackson,
1962, $6.50 (ends Feb-16-03 17:39:27 PST)        3500507876 - Percy's Reliques of Ancient English Poetry, 2
volumes, 1926 printing, $3 (Buy Now) (ends Feb-16-03 18:33:02 PST)                                Happy Bidding!
                                Dolores
--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

On 2/13/03, Dolores Nichols wrote:[ ... ]>        2506559798 - Scots Minstrelsie by Grieg, 6 volumes, 1893, $29.99
>(ends Feb-13-03 14:06:13 PST)I looked at this, and it appears too good to be true. What am I
missing here? Anything anyone can tell me quickly will be much
appreciated.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

you are missing that the bidding goes on....and it is going up there...
Conrad"Robert B. Waltz" wrote:
>
> On 2/13/03, Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >        2506559798 - Scots Minstrelsie by Grieg, 6 volumes, 1893, $29.99
> >(ends Feb-13-03 14:06:13 PST)
>
> I looked at this, and it appears too good to be true. What am I
> missing here? Anything anyone can tell me quickly will be much
> appreciated.
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."--[1}…regular at the rails, smilers at flag-day corners, blameless not
extortionate, superior to party, not loving their own selves, bird-watchers
and inventors of humane bull-slaying, temperate,
fair-spoken,appreciative-all this and a great deal more-it arouses
complicated emotions to see such intimate friends unawares seated
confidently in a ventilaged room smiling at superstition on the fifth of
November May be they'll yet laugh on the other side oftheir faces at
gunpowdered reason.-David Michael Jones 1895-1974 From the Book of Balaam's
Ass(1974) from The Sleeping Lord and other Fragments (1995)

I put a bid in and have been outbid. It is not longer quite so good as to be
true!!Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert B. Waltz" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:03 AM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/13/03 -- opinions?> On 2/13/03, Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >        2506559798 - Scots Minstrelsie by Grieg, 6 volumes, 1893, $29.99
> >(ends Feb-13-03 14:06:13 PST)
>
> I looked at this, and it appears too good to be true. What am I
> missing here? Anything anyone can tell me quickly will be much
> appreciated.
>
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."
>
>

Bob,This from the University of Edinburgh library catalogue:Scots minstrelsie : a national monument of Scottish song.
Database: Edinburgh University Library
Title: Scots minstrelsie : a national monument of Scottish song.
Published: Edinburgh : T.C.& E.C. Jack, [1892-95]
Other Author(s): Greig, John, fl. 1892-1910, ed.
Description: 1 vocal score (6 v.) : col. mounted fronts ; 32 cm.
Notes: D16299 A-F.
Subject(s): Songs, Scots.
Ballads, Scots.
Folk songs, Scots.
Songs, Scots--History and criticism.
Location: Main Library (STANDARD LOAN)
Shelfmark: F .7844(41) Gre.
Number of Items: 6
Status: Not Charged
Library has: v.1
v.2
v.3
v.4
v.5
v.6News to me as well.Cheers
Jamie

There are approx 7 hours to go and I have put another bid in.Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Moreira" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 02/13/03 -- opinions?> Bob,
>
> This from the University of Edinburgh library catalogue:
>
> Scots minstrelsie : a national monument of Scottish song.
> Database: Edinburgh University Library
> Title: Scots minstrelsie : a national monument of Scottish song.
> Published: Edinburgh : T.C.& E.C. Jack, [1892-95]
> Other Author(s): Greig, John, fl. 1892-1910, ed.
> Description: 1 vocal score (6 v.) : col. mounted fronts ; 32 cm.
> Notes: D16299 A-F.
> Subject(s): Songs, Scots.
> Ballads, Scots.
> Folk songs, Scots.
> Songs, Scots--History and criticism.
> Location: Main Library (STANDARD LOAN)
> Shelfmark: F .7844(41) Gre.
> Number of Items: 6
> Status: Not Charged
> Library has: v.1
> v.2
> v.3
> v.4
> v.5
> v.6
>
> News to me as well.
>
> Cheers
> Jamie
>
>

Note that it's Scots Minstrelsie, not Scott's Minstrelsy.  It strikes me as a series of vocal scores/arrangements, along the lines of those issued by Novello and a few other publishers during roughly the same period.  At the very least, I would
check ABE Books or other library catalogues to be sure of what is actually on the block.Cheers
Jamie