Lisa - S. H. wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for helping me understand the difference between a
> songbook and a songster.
>
> So now, what's a chapbook?  I've always wondered about that.
>
> (hey, at least I know what a hymnal is!)
>
> LisaSee 'Examples' at the end in Leslie Shepard's 'The Broadside
Ballad', 1962, for black and white letter broadside ballads,
single sheet songs with music, chapbooks, garlands, songsters, slip
songs, and long sheet songs, and his text for descriptions.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

I am intrigued by the Pat Cooksey attribution in John Roberts response and
Paul Stamler's  response "it was copyrighted in, I think, the 1920s by an
English musical composer."For me anyway the English music hall just feels right. (Not a very strong
endorsement I know) It is also reminiscent of other humorous navy songs like
Paddy Stole The Rope (a disastrous attempt by two Irish Laborers to steal from
a rural English Church), With My Navy Boots On, The Good Ship Ragamuffin
(Australian/Irish), and even Tim Finneran's Wake.All the best
GeorgePaul Stamler wrote:> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George F. Madaus <[unmask]>
>
> <<I received the a so called accident report today purporting to be a
> claim for workman's compensation in England. (I tried to send it but it
> was reject today but it
> was rejected because it contained an attachment with an embedded text.)
> In any event the application is almost the identical story told in the
> song The Sick Note
> sung by a number of Irish singers over the last 5 or 6 years about an
> Irish navy -- a brickee who has several catastrophes befall him. . My
> question is does
> anyone know which came first this so called "accident report" workman's
> compensation request or the song. Is the "accident report" another urban
> legend?.>>
>
> It has certainly become one; I first became aware of this back when these
> stories were being passed around via photocopying -- so-called Xerox
> folklore. It appeared then in a Blue Cross employee newsletter as "oddest
> claim of the month"; that would have been about 1971. About 7 years later,
> when I was a TA in a physics course, the same story was used as a
> bonus-points problem; students were asked to compute the momentum of the
> bricks, acceleration, etc..
>
> But as a song it's much older; it was copyrighted in, I think, the 1920s by
> an English music-hall composer. (An alternate title is "Why Paddy's Not At
> Work Today".) Whether he originated the idea, or adapted a story that was
> already an urban legend, I can't say.
>
> Peace,
> Paul--
George Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Carolyn A. and Peter S. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
(617) 552-4521
[unmask]

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:36:35 -0800, Dave Eyre wrote:>There may be people interested to know that there are nine volumes of
>A.L.Loyd/Ewan MacColl's Washington Records version of Child for auction on
>Ebay start a search at Item # 920841033 and then "view sellers other
>auctions" for those not familiar.
>
Almost sacrilegious to see these sold separately.Oh well.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

I have 2 sets of #1 - #8 (the records which contain Child ballads; #9 is
"great ballads not included in...").  Drop me a line if you are unsuccessful
in your eBay bid and particularly want these 8 lps.All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Eyre" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: Lloyd and MaColl / Child records> There may be people interested to know that there are nine volumes of
> A.L.Loyd/Ewan MacColl's Washington Records version of Child for auction on
> Ebay start a search at Item # 920841033 and then "view sellers other
> auctions" for those not familiar.
>
> Dave Eyre
> [unmask]
>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:42:25 -0500, Sandy Ives wrote:>I can take the story behind "The Sick Letter"  back a couple of years beyond Sam's Readers Digest version--to 1944, in fact. I was in Marine basic training on Parris Island, and one evening there was a movie at the outdoor theater. Can't rememberHi Sandy.I like that Marine story but _nobody_ goes back further than Sam... :-)In an earlier post elsewhere (I've saved quite a bit from many sources on
the Sick Note story) Sam wrote:     By the time Gerard Hoffnung read his incomparably funny "sick letter",
 the story was well-established as a sort of urban legend.  It was
 generally cited as an actual letter that had been received by some
 government agency, and I remember reading it somewhere around 1937.  In
 1940 appeared in READER'S DIGEST as an actual letter supposed to have been
 received by a naval officer from an enlisted man who was explaining why he
 had overstayed his leave;.
etc.Cooksey mentions he has an indicator of a simple version in English music
halls in the 1920's.BTW, the reason this comes up now is that while noone ever questions
Cooksey's authorship or the 100s or recordings, seems he's never made a
penny of royalties.  It's not clear why but seems he could never legally
assert copyright until very recently.  He's doing it now.Cooksey posted a notice (ie, the one John Roberts just posted here) for
that purpose.  He was clearly floored by the many posts at Mudcat not only
recognizing him as writer but supporting and congratulating him.  His own
web site gives more and is worth visiting.
http://www.patcooksey.com/index.shtmlObviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went into
popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are _supposed_ to be
anonymous - even if we know they were written by Scott or Nairne or AP
Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve a
life of their own.  That's why we like them.>what the movie was, but one of the pre-feature "selected short subjects'  was a Pete Smith Specialty (Sam, Ed, and the other Sandy can explain about Pete Smith Specialties) on funny accidents, and there in all it glory was a neat dramatization of
>our story. Picture several thousand Marines absolutely paralyzed with laughter, and you'll see why I have never forgotten it.
>        Maybe I can go back further than that. In the late thirties I was a great Fred Allen fan and almost never missed a Thursday (?)night radio program. One of the features was the "Mighty Allen Art Players," and one of that feature's series involved
>the courtroom adventures of Judge Allen.  And there again was our story (the plaintiff narrating "Zip it's the bricks! Zap it's the barrel! etc.")
>        I don't know whether all this helps, but it's been fun remembering.
>
>Sandy-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Lisa:A chapbook is a single sheet of paper printed in small (6 pt or 8 pt
type), on two sides, then folded in such a way, its edges trimmed so as to
make a small, perhaps 3x3 inch book(let) of 8 or 16 pages with a
self-cover.  Chapbooks flourished from the late 17th C. through to the
20th.  (The most famous, and last leaves of the tradition were
Haldemann-Julius' Little Blue Books which were printed as late as the
1930s which except for the stapled binding and blue cover were chapbooks.
[Vance Randolph wrote/edited a number of them as a freelance
writer to support his collecting habit.])Contents of chapbooks were virtually everything from songs, folktales,
maxims, street cries, alphabet books, recipes, riddles, etc.  They sold
for two or three cents, or so I understand.EdOn Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Lisa - S. H. wrote:> Thanks to everyone for helping me understand the difference between a
> songbook and a songster.
>
> So now, what's a chapbook?  I've always wondered about that.
>
> (hey, at least I know what a hymnal is!)
>
> Lisa
>

Folks:I would like to point out that Rosina Emmett, a fine arts painter and
illustrator, compiled "Pretty Peggy and Other Ballads" in 1880.  (I
believe it is from that children's book that Peggy Seeger learned the
ballad.)A half dozen or more copies of that book, in various American and British
imprints, are on abebooks.com.  The price ranges from $75.00 to $100.00,
depending on condition.An interesting footnote:  Rosina Emmett was the mother (and sole support)
of American playwright and historian Robert Emmett Sherwood, four time
Pulitzer Prize winner, FDR speechwriter, author of one of the best books
about the Roosevelt administration, _Roosevelt and Hopkins,_ and founder
of the Voice of America.Ed

To Whom it May Concern--I just received this:
Dick, it's arrived!! It will be available from Monday 18th Nov.Gerry       ----- Original Message -----
       From: dick greenhaus
       To: Gerry McLean
       Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 4:38 PM
       Subject: Re: Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection vol.8       Please let me know when it arrives. I've had a fairly large
number of enquiries.       Thanx.       dick greenhausIf you're interested in volume 8  or, for that matter, any other volume
or volumes, CAMSCO Music is prepared to offer them at a substantial
discount:$47 per volume (Amazon gets $58-$70; ; Barnes & Noble $61; ScotPress and
Unicorn $75) I previously anticipated a price of $42, but the pound has
gotten stronger (or the dollar weaker.)$305 for the complete 8-volume set (ScotPress is asking $500)All prices plus actual shipping cost (media rates.)I'm assembling an order now. Some of you have placed orders or indicated
interest back in the murky past when v.8 was a will o' the whisp; I'd
much appreciate it if interested parties would contact me soonest to
order/confirm/whatever. I take checks, VISA, MASTER or DISCOVER cards. I
can handle orders from folks in the UK who don't have credit cards and
would prefer to pay in sterling.dick greenhaus

FredThanks for this.
I had not known of the Heather and Glen album, I now understand it was only
ever issued in the USA, and in general drew on the 1951 material - but also
I gather had Davie Stewart singing, and he was recorded by Lomax a little
later in London.RegardsEwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

Thanks to the Mudcat for the alert I'll pass on: Lyon College
(Batesville, Arkansas) has put together a web site on their John Quincy
Wolf Folklore Collection, here:
http://www.lyon.edu/wolfcollection/index.html.The components of the site are described on the site as follows:"Ozark Folksongs" contains transcriptions and audio files to hundreds of
folksongs collected by Wolf from 1952-1970. Songs are indexed by song
title. "Sacred Harp" documents Wolf's interest in Sacred Harp singings.
Wolf's recordings of Sacred Harp singings will be added to this site in
early Spring 2003. "Memphis Blues" discusses Wolf's interest in the
blues, and by Spring 2003 will include recordings of several bluesmen
visiting Wolf's folklore classes. "Articles" features a bibliography of
Wolf's folklore writings and several article reprints in full-text.
"Life in the Leatherwoods" links to materials by John Quincy Wolf, Sr.,
and includes six articles about White River that the elder Wolf
published from 1938-1941. "Biography" contains articles about Wolf's
life, "References" lists links and bibliographic materials, and
"Credits" provides information about this Website.~ Becky--
Becky Nankivell, Managing Director
Tucson Friends of Traditional Music
[unmask]   *   www.tftm.org
             520-293-3783
P.O. Box 40654, Tucson, AZ 85717-0654

> Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:09:46 -0500
> From:    Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> Subject: Re: which Came first?
>
> Obviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went into
> popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are _supposed_ to be
> anonymous - even if we know they were written by Scott or Nairne or AP
> Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve
> a life of their own.  That's why we like them.
>
Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".

> Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:05:27 -0500
> From:    "George F. Madaus" <[unmask]>
> Subject: Re: which Came first?
>
> I am intrigued by the Pat Cooksey attribution in John Roberts response
> and Paul Stamler's  response "it was copyrighted in, I think, the
> 1920s by an English musical composer."
>
> For me anyway the English music hall just feels right. (Not a very
> strong endorsement I know) It is also reminiscent of other humorous
> navy songs like Paddy Stole The Rope (a disastrous attempt by two
> Irish Laborers to steal from a rural English Church), With My Navy
> Boots On, The Good Ship Ragamuffin (Australian/Irish),Is that last one a variant of The Good Ship Venus?> and even Tim
> Finneran's Wake.I've usually seen/heard that as Finnegan's Wake.  As presumably did
James Joyce, author of Finnegans Wake.

Hi folks:Today's version of The Straight Dope deals with a traditional song -- even
references Dena Epstein's classic book. It's such a relief, with all the
misinformation out there, to see someone get it right for a change.http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mmichaelrow.htmlPeace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Many thanks to Fred McCormick for the information about and listing of
Heather and Glen.It's an interesting mixture. A lot of it would have been 1951, but neither
Jeannie Robertson nor Davie Stewart were 'found' then by the folklorists.Jeannie was recorded by Lomax in London in 1953, [the occasion I think when
she was to be part of a Lomax BBC TV broadcast, but was taken ill?] and
Davie in 1957. Lomax did a radio series in 1957 - A Ballad-Hunter Looks At
Britain, an 8 part series. Perhaps Davie was brought down for this?EwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Odd-
I've been singing Four Prominent Bastards (Originally titled, I believe, A
Ballad for Four Prominent Love Children) for a half-century, now. Which
bastard has been omitted in the trim-down?dick greenhaus
[unmask] wrote:> > Date:    Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:09:46 -0500
> > From:    Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: which Came first?
> >
> > Obviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went into
> > popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are _supposed_ to be
> > anonymous - even if we know they were written by Scott or Nairne or AP
> > Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve
> > a life of their own.  That's why we like them.
> >
> Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
> Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".

Hi folks:I asked my contact at the Alan Lomax Archive whether "Heather and Glen"
would be reissued; he replied:"While we're not going to be reissuing Heather and Glen in its original
form, all the songs will eventually be released in our Scottish series. Some
of the material has already been released in the Portraits albums of John
Strachan, Davey Stewart, and Jeannie Robertson."Peace,
Paul

Hi folks:A radio listener to Susan Madden's program remembered these lyrics, learned
as a boy in Wisconsin. They ring a very faint bell to me; anyone else? And
can you remember the title and source? Sons of the Pioneers, perhaps?Peace,
PaulWhen I get to that great range up yonder
No hardships to make you feel blue
There'll be just one boss of the outfit
On the wide rolling range to us newAnd boys there'll be one grand reunion
In a land so sunny and fair
And I know that my buddies are waiting
In the land that lies hidden up there.

It reminds me of (and would sing to) Roll On (They say that there'll be a
big roundup/And the cowboys like dogies will stand...)
Jon Bartlett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Stamler" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:37 AM
Subject: Cowboy song> Hi folks:
>
> A radio listener to Susan Madden's program remembered these lyrics,
learned
> as a boy in Wisconsin. They ring a very faint bell to me; anyone else? And
> can you remember the title and source? Sons of the Pioneers, perhaps?
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
> When I get to that great range up yonder
> No hardships to make you feel blue
> There'll be just one boss of the outfit
> On the wide rolling range to us new
>
> And boys there'll be one grand reunion
> In a land so sunny and fair
> And I know that my buddies are waiting
> In the land that lies hidden up there.

In a message dated 11/13/02 11:35:00 AM, [unmask] writes:>A radio listener to Susan Madden's program remembered these .lyrics, learned
as a boy in Wisconsin. They ring a very faint bell >to me; anyone else?
    <When I get to that great range up yonder    <No hardships to make you feel blue    <There'll be just one boss of the outfit    <On the wide rolling range to us new    <And boys there'll be one grand reunion    <In a land so sunny and fair    <And I know that my buddies are waiting    <In the land that lies hidden up there.
*************************************
I've never heard those particular stanzas,  but would be willing to bet that
they were made up by someone as additions to "The Cowboy's Dream."  which is
No. 61 in John A. Lomax and Alan  Lomax, _Folksong USA_.  (1947) (That book
was actually Alan's work, put together in honor of  his father,  John A.
Lomax,  who died in the year following its publication.)  The song was sung
to the tune of "My Bonnie,"  and Alan ( on page 196 ) tells how it had been a
sort of theme song of Rev. Abe Mulkey.  I think we can be pretty sure that
other Western preachers used it the same way, making up verses to suit their
own preferences.Sam
La Jolla, CA

The Ranch Boys on some old blue-label Decca records we had when I was a
*very* little kid, possibly.  The tune was the tune of "My Bonnie Lies Over
The Ocean"; the chorus said "Roll on, roll on, roll on little dogies, roll
on, roll on; roll on, roll on, roll on, little dogies, roll on..."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Bartlett" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Cowboy song> It reminds me of (and would sing to) Roll On (They say that there'll be a
> big roundup/And the cowboys like dogies will stand...)
> Jon Bartlett
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Stamler" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:37 AM
> Subject: Cowboy song
>
>
> > Hi folks:
> >
> > A radio listener to Susan Madden's program remembered these lyrics,
> learned
> > as a boy in Wisconsin. They ring a very faint bell to me; anyone else?
And
> > can you remember the title and source? Sons of the Pioneers, perhaps?
> >
> > Peace,
> > Paul
> >
> > When I get to that great range up yonder
> > No hardships to make you feel blue
> > There'll be just one boss of the outfit
> > On the wide rolling range to us new
> >
> > And boys there'll be one grand reunion
> > In a land so sunny and fair
> > And I know that my buddies are waiting
> > In the land that lies hidden up there.

> Date:    Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:20:47 -0500
> From:    dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Which came first?
>
> Odd-
> I've been singing Four Prominent Bastards (Originally titled, I
> believe, A Ballad for Four Prominent Love Children) for a
> half-century, now. Which bastard has been omitted in the trim-down?The one who overcame the handicap of a legitimate birth.> dick greenhaus
> [unmask] wrote:
> > Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
> > Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".
>

I've enjoyed the discussion regarding the Tradition lp "Heather and
Glen". At about the same time, Prestige International issued a record
edited by Hamish Henderson called "The Berryfields of Blair". What is known
about when this recording was made?  John--
     John Cowles             [unmask]
Telnet: 497-4375             Optimization Technology Manager
Office: 1-972-497-4375       Advanced Technology Center
Home:   1-972-596-6223       TCD Division of Hewlett-Packard
Mobil:  1-214-632-8652       3000 Waterview Pkwy.
Fax:    1-972-497-4848       Richardson, TX  75080

Automatic digest processor <[unmask]> writes:> From:    [unmask]
>
> > From:    Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: which Came first?> > Obviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went
> > into popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are
> > _supposed_ to be anonymous - even if we know they were written
> > by Scott or Nairne or AP Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or
> > Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve a life of their own.  That's
> > why we like them.> Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
> Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".Perhaps not originally a song, but in any case set to music within
the year of its composition (1934).> From:    dick greenhaus <[unmask]>> Odd- I've been singing Four Prominent Bastards (Originally titled,
> I believe, A Ballad for Four Prominent Love Children) for a
> half-century, now. Which bastard has been omitted in the
> trim-down?The final, self-appointed one.  I suspect that responsibility for
deleting that bitter, depression-era stanza belongs to Oscar Brand.The original title seems to have been "Four Prominent Bastards Are
We".  In its first appearance in print it was tactfully retitled
"Four Prominent So and So's".Here are some notes on this song that I posted on rec.music.folk in
1998:----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Four Prominent Bastards Are We", a/k/a "Four Prominent So and So's",
"The Four Bastards", and "Three Prominent Bastards", has been in oral
& MS circulation, as a song and as a recitation, since the 1930s.  I
first heard it recited at a party about 1957, and typed it up from a
copy I was lent at the time, with the note  The person from whom I got this, a member of the faculty at Caltech,
  states that it is among Mr. Nash's unpublished poems, but has been
  in general circulation for some decades.Oscar Brand, who sings it on _Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads -- Vol.
III_ (but does not include it in the book of that title), merely says
it is "attributed to a well-known contemporary humorist".Recently I discovered by accident, in the online catalog of the
Harvard University libraries, that this coyness in attribution is
uncalled for.  The song was indeed written by Ogden Nash, and was
published under his name without shame or guile under a reputable
imprint.  Harvard has two versions of it in its library for rare
books, the Houghton.  On the strength of having survived 3 months at
Harvard in 1959, I count as an alumnus, so I was allowed, after due
formalities, to view these documents & take notes on them (in pencil --
no pens allowed in the reading room).The first copy is a printed broadside, titled "Four Prominent Bastards
Are We", with the handwritten notation "Reprinted from typewritten
copy, Worcester, May 1934".  No music is given, and the chorus is
missing.The second is a booklet published by Simon and Schuster, 1934, with
music by Robert Armbruster, and illustrations by Otto Soglow, a well-
known cartoonist of the time, who also illustrated some other books of
Nash's poems.  The title is _Four Prominent So and So's_, presumably
to avoid embarrassing librarians & cataloguers; the word "bastard" is
used in the text.  The text of the four stanzas is substantially the
same as in the broadside, tho I did not make a detailed comparison.
The last stanza is a sort of coda and has a different tune from the
other three.  (For this reason, I suspect that "Four" in the chorus
ought to be "Three" -- as it is, for another reason, on Brand's
record.)The text I got at Caltech was obviously corrupt & made me suspicious
of the attribution:  The senator's stanza is missing the final
couplet, and many lines don't scan.  (Nash is famous for his defiance
of the proprieties of rhyme & meter, but he was perfectly capable of
observing them when he chose to.)  There is also no hint that it was a
song, and the chorus is missing.  Brand's version scans, but is
missing the entire last stanza as well as one couplet from each of the
other three -- the beginning from the banker's, "The hired man..."
from the broker's, and, once again, the ending from the senator's.
His tune is very different from Armbruster's.  There are many
differences in wording.I had always imagined that Roger Babson, whom Brand changes to Walter
Winchell, was another gossip columnist; but it turns out he was a
prominent business statistician.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  "That is true, but it is not important."   :||
||:  "Importance is not important.  Truth is."  :||

Hi-
Reportedly, the 4-stanza version was performed at a Gridiron Club affair
which was inadvertently broadcast on Armed Forces Radio in the early
1940's. Roger Babson was the Literary Digest statistician and
prognosticator who confidently predicted a Landon (I think it was that
campaign) victory in the Presidential race against Roosevelt.I don't know when the thing was set to music, but the tune is, essentially,
Solomon Levi. And the whole thing, IMO, is pointless without the final
verse, The four-stanza version is in The Digital Tradition.dick greenhausJoe Fineman wrote:> Automatic digest processor <[unmask]> writes:
>
> > From:    [unmask]
> >
> > > From:    Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: which Came first?
>
> > > Obviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went
> > > into popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are
> > > _supposed_ to be anonymous - even if we know they were written
> > > by Scott or Nairne or AP Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or
> > > Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve a life of their own.  That's
> > > why we like them.
>
> > Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
> > Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".
>
> Perhaps not originally a song, but in any case set to music within
> the year of its composition (1934).
>
> > From:    dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
>
> > Odd- I've been singing Four Prominent Bastards (Originally titled,
> > I believe, A Ballad for Four Prominent Love Children) for a
> > half-century, now. Which bastard has been omitted in the
> > trim-down?
>
> The final, self-appointed one.  I suspect that responsibility for
> deleting that bitter, depression-era stanza belongs to Oscar Brand.
>
> The original title seems to have been "Four Prominent Bastards Are
> We".  In its first appearance in print it was tactfully retitled
> "Four Prominent So and So's".
>
> Here are some notes on this song that I posted on rec.music.folk in
> 1998:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Four Prominent Bastards Are We", a/k/a "Four Prominent So and So's",
> "The Four Bastards", and "Three Prominent Bastards", has been in oral
> & MS circulation, as a song and as a recitation, since the 1930s.  I
> first heard it recited at a party about 1957, and typed it up from a
> copy I was lent at the time, with the note
>
>   The person from whom I got this, a member of the faculty at Caltech,
>   states that it is among Mr. Nash's unpublished poems, but has been
>   in general circulation for some decades.
>
> Oscar Brand, who sings it on _Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads -- Vol.
> III_ (but does not include it in the book of that title), merely says
> it is "attributed to a well-known contemporary humorist".
>
> Recently I discovered by accident, in the online catalog of the
> Harvard University libraries, that this coyness in attribution is
> uncalled for.  The song was indeed written by Ogden Nash, and was
> published under his name without shame or guile under a reputable
> imprint.  Harvard has two versions of it in its library for rare
> books, the Houghton.  On the strength of having survived 3 months at
> Harvard in 1959, I count as an alumnus, so I was allowed, after due
> formalities, to view these documents & take notes on them (in pencil --
> no pens allowed in the reading room).
>
> The first copy is a printed broadside, titled "Four Prominent Bastards
> Are We", with the handwritten notation "Reprinted from typewritten
> copy, Worcester, May 1934".  No music is given, and the chorus is
> missing.
>
> The second is a booklet published by Simon and Schuster, 1934, with
> music by Robert Armbruster, and illustrations by Otto Soglow, a well-
> known cartoonist of the time, who also illustrated some other books of
> Nash's poems.  The title is _Four Prominent So and So's_, presumably
> to avoid embarrassing librarians & cataloguers; the word "bastard" is
> used in the text.  The text of the four stanzas is substantially the
> same as in the broadside, tho I did not make a detailed comparison.
> The last stanza is a sort of coda and has a different tune from the
> other three.  (For this reason, I suspect that "Four" in the chorus
> ought to be "Three" -- as it is, for another reason, on Brand's
> record.)
>
> The text I got at Caltech was obviously corrupt & made me suspicious
> of the attribution:  The senator's stanza is missing the final
> couplet, and many lines don't scan.  (Nash is famous for his defiance
> of the proprieties of rhyme & meter, but he was perfectly capable of
> observing them when he chose to.)  There is also no hint that it was a
> song, and the chorus is missing.  Brand's version scans, but is
> missing the entire last stanza as well as one couplet from each of the
> other three -- the beginning from the banker's, "The hired man..."
> from the broker's, and, once again, the ending from the senator's.
> His tune is very different from Armbruster's.  There are many
> differences in wording.
>
> I had always imagined that Roger Babson, whom Brand changes to Walter
> Winchell, was another gossip columnist; but it turns out he was a
> prominent business statistician.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]
>
> ||:  "That is true, but it is not important."   :||
> ||:  "Importance is not important.  Truth is."  :||

Oops-
Memory faileth.Shortly before the 1929 stock market Crash, economic seer Roger Babson
predicted a decline that "may be terrific." At
about the same time, Professors Joseph Lawrence of Princeton and Edward
Kemmerer of Yale saw a bright future for
Wall Street. Virtually every book dealing with the Crash mentions Babson as
a farsighted forecaster, while Lawrence and
Kemmerer are largely forgotten. This is quite common. After most portentous
events we look about, wondering why we
didn't see the train coming, and then locate those who did, elevating them
to super-guru status.dick greenhausJoe Fineman wrote:> Automatic digest processor <[unmask]> writes:
>
> > From:    [unmask]
> >
> > > From:    Abby Sale <[unmask]>
> > > Subject: Re: which Came first?
>
> > > Obviously, this is one of those recent classics that truly went
> > > into popular lore as anonymous.  I think folk songs are
> > > _supposed_ to be anonymous - even if we know they were written
> > > by Scott or Nairne or AP Carter or MacColl or John Conolly or
> > > Pat Cooksey.  Some songs achieve a life of their own.  That's
> > > why we like them.
>
> > Another, not originally a song:  Ogden Nash's "Four Prominent
> > Bastards."  It got trimmed down to "Three Prominent Bastards".
>
> Perhaps not originally a song, but in any case set to music within
> the year of its composition (1934).
>
> > From:    dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
>
> > Odd- I've been singing Four Prominent Bastards (Originally titled,
> > I believe, A Ballad for Four Prominent Love Children) for a
> > half-century, now. Which bastard has been omitted in the
> > trim-down?
>
> The final, self-appointed one.  I suspect that responsibility for
> deleting that bitter, depression-era stanza belongs to Oscar Brand.
>
> The original title seems to have been "Four Prominent Bastards Are
> We".  In its first appearance in print it was tactfully retitled
> "Four Prominent So and So's".
>
> Here are some notes on this song that I posted on rec.music.folk in
> 1998:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Four Prominent Bastards Are We", a/k/a "Four Prominent So and So's",
> "The Four Bastards", and "Three Prominent Bastards", has been in oral
> & MS circulation, as a song and as a recitation, since the 1930s.  I
> first heard it recited at a party about 1957, and typed it up from a
> copy I was lent at the time, with the note
>
>   The person from whom I got this, a member of the faculty at Caltech,
>   states that it is among Mr. Nash's unpublished poems, but has been
>   in general circulation for some decades.
>
> Oscar Brand, who sings it on _Bawdy Songs and Backroom Ballads -- Vol.
> III_ (but does not include it in the book of that title), merely says
> it is "attributed to a well-known contemporary humorist".
>
> Recently I discovered by accident, in the online catalog of the
> Harvard University libraries, that this coyness in attribution is
> uncalled for.  The song was indeed written by Ogden Nash, and was
> published under his name without shame or guile under a reputable
> imprint.  Harvard has two versions of it in its library for rare
> books, the Houghton.  On the strength of having survived 3 months at
> Harvard in 1959, I count as an alumnus, so I was allowed, after due
> formalities, to view these documents & take notes on them (in pencil --
> no pens allowed in the reading room).
>
> The first copy is a printed broadside, titled "Four Prominent Bastards
> Are We", with the handwritten notation "Reprinted from typewritten
> copy, Worcester, May 1934".  No music is given, and the chorus is
> missing.
>
> The second is a booklet published by Simon and Schuster, 1934, with
> music by Robert Armbruster, and illustrations by Otto Soglow, a well-
> known cartoonist of the time, who also illustrated some other books of
> Nash's poems.  The title is _Four Prominent So and So's_, presumably
> to avoid embarrassing librarians & cataloguers; the word "bastard" is
> used in the text.  The text of the four stanzas is substantially the
> same as in the broadside, tho I did not make a detailed comparison.
> The last stanza is a sort of coda and has a different tune from the
> other three.  (For this reason, I suspect that "Four" in the chorus
> ought to be "Three" -- as it is, for another reason, on Brand's
> record.)
>
> The text I got at Caltech was obviously corrupt & made me suspicious
> of the attribution:  The senator's stanza is missing the final
> couplet, and many lines don't scan.  (Nash is famous for his defiance
> of the proprieties of rhyme & meter, but he was perfectly capable of
> observing them when he chose to.)  There is also no hint that it was a
> song, and the chorus is missing.  Brand's version scans, but is
> missing the entire last stanza as well as one couplet from each of the
> other three -- the beginning from the banker's, "The hired man..."
> from the broker's, and, once again, the ending from the senator's.
> His tune is very different from Armbruster's.  There are many
> differences in wording.
>
> I had always imagined that Roger Babson, whom Brand changes to Walter
> Winchell, was another gossip columnist; but it turns out he was a
> prominent business statistician.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]
>
> ||:  "That is true, but it is not important."   :||
> ||:  "Importance is not important.  Truth is."  :||

John Cowles wrote:
>
> I've enjoyed the discussion regarding the Tradition lp "Heather and
> Glen". At about the same time, Prestige International issued a record
> edited by Hamish Henderson called "The Berryfields of Blair". What is known
> about when this recording was made?
>
>   John
>
> --
>      John Cowles             [unmask]
> Telnet: 497-4375             Optimization Technology Manager
> Office: 1-972-497-4375       Advanced Technology Center
> Home:   1-972-596-6223       TCD Division of Hewlett-Packard
> Mobil:  1-214-632-8652       3000 Waterview Pkwy.
> Fax:    1-972-497-4848       Richardson, TX  75080"Folksongs and Music from the Berryfields of Blair", 'Documentary
Series', Prestige/International 25016. There's nothing on the record
jacket to indicate the time of recording. 'Recording and notes by Hamish
Henderson. Produced by Kenneth S. Goldstein in association with The
School of Scottish Studies, Edinburgh.' Perhaps the latter has some
written records.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my website <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

On 11/14/02, Bruce Olson wrote:>John Cowles wrote:
>>
>> I've enjoyed the discussion regarding the Tradition lp "Heather and
>> Glen". At about the same time, Prestige International issued a record
>> edited by Hamish Henderson called "The Berryfields of Blair". What is known
>> about when this recording was made?
>>
>>   John
>>
>> --
>>      John Cowles             [unmask]
>> Telnet: 497-4375             Optimization Technology Manager
>> Office: 1-972-497-4375       Advanced Technology Center
>> Home:   1-972-596-6223       TCD Division of Hewlett-Packard
>> Mobil:  1-214-632-8652       3000 Waterview Pkwy.
>> Fax:    1-972-497-4848       Richardson, TX  75080
>
>"Folksongs and Music from the Berryfields of Blair", 'Documentary
>Series', Prestige/International 25016. There's nothing on the record
>jacket to indicate the time of recording. 'Recording and notes by Hamish
>Henderson. Produced by Kenneth S. Goldstein in association with The
>School of Scottish Studies, Edinburgh.' Perhaps the latter has some
>written records.There is a clue, though, in the title song. Belle Stewart
*wrote* "The Berryfields of Blair." And Peter Kennedy recorded
it from her in 1955. Probably narrows things down a bit.--
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Fineman <[unmask]><<I had always imagined that Roger Babson, whom Brand changes to Walter
Winchell, was another gossip columnist; but it turns out he was a
prominent business statistician.>>And stock market analyst/tipster; he gained fame for predicting the crash of
1929 when everyone else was consumed with "irrational exuberance", to use a
modern phrase. He spent the next several decades financing searches for
anti-gravity substances and devices, with no results.Peace,
Paul

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:35:58 -0600, Paul Stamler wrote:>
>"While we're not going to be reissuing Heather and Glen in its original
>form, all the songs will eventually be released in our Scottish series. Some
>of the material has already been released in the Portraits albums of John
>Strachan, Davey Stewart, and Jeannie Robertson."
>
In the meantime, all prior caveats in mind, all of 'Heather & Glen' is
available as "Scots Drinking & Pipe Songs" from Legacy International.Something to think about.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

I pass this on as read.  Good site & growing.  If you play one of the
Audios, you may want to right-click & "open in a new window" so the text
will still be available in the original window.His pragmatic article, "Folksingers and the Re-Creation of Folksong"
Western Folklore, Volume XXVI. No. 2 April 1967 is there, too.  Worth
re-reading.In rec.music.folk, [unmask] (Copperhead) wrote:>If you get a minute, please take a look at the website featuring the
>John Quincy Wolf Collection at the Lyon College library.
>
>http://www.lyon.edu/wolfcollection/
>
>There is information about Sacred Harp singing, Memphis Blues, and the
>most amazing index of Ozark Folksongs.  Many of the folksongs have
>associated audio files of the tunes being performed by Ozark hill
>people.  And the number of audio files is increasing as the librarians
>are able to convert old cassette recordings to .mp3 format.
>
>If you enjoy traditional Ozark folk music, or have a scholarly
>interest, this is a must-visit.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:57:54 CST, John Cowles wrote:>I've enjoyed the discussion regarding the Tradition lp "Heather and
>Glen". At about the same time, Prestige International issued a record
>edited by Hamish Henderson called "The Berryfields of Blair". What is known
>about when this recording was made?
>
>  JohnI only have a tape with most of this and not the sleeve notes but per
_Alias MacAlias_ page 103:"Sleeve note (Prestige/International 25016 Folksongs), 1962"It doesn't give exact dates of the recordings but implies they were very
recent before the record.  Most were made in the Standing Stones berry
field.  (Elsewhere in the book would put 1958 as an absolute earliest but
nothing clearly stated thai it was realy earlier than 1962.)-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

I've been more seriously reintroduced to Great Lakes chanteys and songs.
I picked up this particular rousing sailor song from the group, Hoolie,
who got it from Lee Murdock.  Murdock wrote the tune and added the chorus.
He's been reintroducing the fine, fine, unknown work of Ivan Walton and
took the text from Walton.Ivan Walton recorded the text (no tune recalled) from Norman "Beachie"
MacIvor of Goderich Ontario in 1934.  See _Windjammers: Songs of the Great
Lakes Sailors_; finally edited by Joe Grimm, 2002Murdock sells the book at
http://64.226.151.8/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LMR&Category_Code=Rec
as well as his own CDs. (The song at issue is on _The Lost Lake Sailors_
CD as "Below Niagara Falls.")Thing is, Walton was an extensive collector of the "last leaves" of Laker
windjammer sailors - barely (I gather) as they were dying off in the 20's
& 30's.  No one was interested in their material back then and it took
until 2002 to be published.  Many, fine songs & novel as well as standard
versions of known songs.Much of the point is that salt-sea songs were sung continuously to the
lakes and back to the salt.  Ie, salty sailors would finish their season
and then join the Maine or Michigan logging operations for the winter and
bring their songs with them.  We all know that much but after the logging
season, many would find themselves in Michigan and looking for a "ride"
and a job to get back to the Atlantic.  There was plenty of sail traffic -
ore carriers, of course, but all kinds of goods since la Salle's Le
Griffon 1st tried it on Lake Erie in 1679.The book is a good read.  I only complain that one cannot differentiate
Walton's comments from the editing and commentary of Grimm.  Still, it
gives us much lost material and I think more and more will make its way
onto the "circuit" of folk interests.=========So I learned this song and didn't realize for quite a while that it's an
"A-plus" version of "The Winnipeg Whore."  I don't think Walton or Grimm
or Murdock caught this either.  "The Winnipeg Whore" for me, was one of
those songs we had as kids but since I was always put off by the (usually)
associated childrens' tune, "Reuben & Rachel" or "Reuben, Reuben," I never
learned it.  Murdock may have performed a valued service to a classic
bawdy ballad with his singable tune - or ruined it.  But I like it.Referring to Cray, p. 203, the Walton version has all of the important
elements of all Cray versions cited.        The Buffalo WhoreMy first trip dawn old Lake Erie,
With some sailors to explore;
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
Then I met Rosy O'Flannagan,
Best of all the Buffalo whores.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.She says, "Boy, I think I know you,
Let me sit upon your knee,"
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
"How'd you like to do some lovin'?
A dollar and a half will be my fee."
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Roustabout Niagara;
        Beware of the rocks that lie
        Below Niagara Falls.Some were singing, some were dancing,
Some were drunk upon the floor;
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
But I was over in a corner
A'making love to the Buffalo whore.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.She was slick as oil on water,
I didn't know what she was about
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
'Til I missed my watch and wallet,
Then I popped her on the snout.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Roustabout Niagara;
        Beware of the rocks that lie
        Below Niagara Falls.Out came the whores and sons-of-bitches,
They came at me by the score;
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
You'd have laughed to split your britches
To see me flying out that door!
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.So to all of you young sailors
On the Lakes when you explore
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
Keep an eye upon your riggin'
While navigatin' that Buffalo shore.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Below Niagara Falls.
        A-singing, way, Niagara,
        Roustabout Niagara;
        Beware of the rocks that lie
        Below Niagara Falls.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Abby:Thanks for the Great Lakes song -- and the reference to the book.  I would
have missed it but for your notice.Which same is another way of underscoring the importance of ballad-l to
its subscribers.Ed

Hi!        Another week - another list!
        Not as much out there this week :-(        SONGSTERS        1581575687 - Sabbath School Songster, 1861, $4.99 (ends
Nov-17-02 16:48:00 PST)        921731790 - Lake Geneva Songster, 1930's, $9.99 (ends Nov-19-02
07:46:02 PST)        735570840 - MERCHANT'S GARGLING OIL SONGSTER, 1887, $9.99 (ends
Nov-20-02 09:23:19 PST)        922131574 - Temperance Songster, 1904, $9.99 (ends Nov-20-02
17:49:43 PST)        736538383 - Temperance Songster, 1904?, $5 (ends Nov-20-02
15:12:00 PST)        SONGBOOKS. ETC.        921262299 - Favorite Mountain Ballands and Old Time Songs, 1928,
$5 (ends Nov-17-02 12:37:18 PST)        921306932 - The Lonely Mountaineer's Album of Mountain Ballads
and Cowboy Songs, 1934, $9.99 (ends Nov-17-02 15:01:30 PST)        921357717 - Walter Peterson Mountain Ballads and Old Time Songs
songbook, 1931, $4.99 (ends Nov-17-02 18:04:28 PST)        735376842 - MEXICAN BORDER BALLADS BY BOATRIGHT, 1967 printing,
$7.99 (ends Nov-17-02 18:40:07 PST)        921382156 - Tip Top Songs of the Roaming Ranger, 1935, $5.99
(ends Nov-17-02 19:09:51 PST)        1582022907 - Lays and Ballads of English History by Smedley,
1840?, $24.99 (ends Nov-17-02 19:10:39 PST)        921498984 - Songs of Belfast, edited by Hammond, 1978, $4 (ends
Nov-18-02 09:27:17 PST)        735003167 - Afro-American Folksongs by Krehbiel, 1914, $9.99
w/reserve (ends Nov-18-02 19:33:44 PST)        1582568723 - Broadside Ballads of The Restoration Period, by
Fawcett, 1930, $45 (ends Nov-18-02 19:41:09 PST)        921565971 - THE ARKANSAS WOOD-CHOPPER?S WORLD?S GREATEST
COLLECTION OF COWBOY SONGS, 1932, $9.99 (ends Nov-18-02 20:00:00 PST)        921735528 - THE MINSTRELSY OF SCOTLAND by Moffat, 1896, $35
(ends Nov-19-02 08:09:34 PST)        1583017280 - Bluegrass Breakdown by Cantwell, 1992, $4.50 (ends
Nov-19-02 18:50:25 PST)        922126211 - Old Time Ballads and Cowboy Songs Song Book COMPILED
BY COWBOY LOYE AND JUST PLAIN JOHN, 1930's?, $12.50 (ends Nov-20-02
17:27:06 PST)        1583875416 - One Hundred English Folk Songs collected by Cecil
Sharp, 1975 Dover edition, $4.99 (ends Nov-21-02 13:29:28 PST)        921705546 - British Minstrelsie, 6 volumes, no date given, 15
GBP w/reserve (ends Nov-22-02 03:51:48 PST)        921707452 - The new musical and vocal cabinet, comprising a
selection of the most favorite English, Scotch & Irish melodies, 1820,
51 GBP (ends Nov-22-02 04:16:19 PST)        922626028 - American Negro Folk Songs by White, 1928, $8 (ends
Nov-22-02 14:32:48 PST)        735954432 - THE CARTER FAMILY & THEIR ALBUM OF SMOKEY MOUNTAIN
BALLADS, 1935, $10.50 (ends Nov-24-02 17:00:58 PST)        1584480584 - 2 books (The Viking Book Of Folk Ballads of the
English-Speaking World by Friedman, 1971 and Great American Folklore,
Legends, Tales, Ballads and Superstitions by Battle, 1986), $3.50 (ends
Nov-25-02 17:56:14 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        1583495391 - 5 issues of the New York Folklore Quarterly,
1970-1979, $7.50 (ends Nov-20-02 18:07:02 PST)                                See you next week!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Very interesting - I would love to buy a copy of the book & CD. However, the
web site of the seller askes me to put in my credit card details on a plain
unsecured web page that uses HTTP, not HTTPS. No way, José, so no sale. Pity
really.
Simon

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 10:59:12 -0000, Simon Furey wrote:>Very interesting - I would love to buy a copy of the book & CD. However, the
>web site of the seller askes me to put in my credit card details on a plain
>unsecured web page that uses HTTP, not HTTPS. No way, José, so no sale. Pity
>really.They accept checks.  They even took mine.  I was _extremely_ pleased at
the way they went to _considerable_ extra effort to advise and do some
research and help me out in other areas.There are also one or two other sources for the book/CD but I can't cite
the sites offhand.Murdock is to be highly credited with delving into and now promoting the
Walton material in the mid-west and making it available through his own
singing and freely available to others.  I don't think he had any direct
involvement in publishing or editing it.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On 11/16/02, Dolores Nichols wrote:[ ... ]>        922626028 - American Negro Folk Songs by White, 1928, $8 (ends
>Nov-22-02 14:32:48 PST)I have a mild interest in this one (maybe $13 worth). Anyone else want
it more?And, Ed et al, don't tell me that it's worth more than that. I know.
But I'm in the situation where quantity is more important than quality
for me. :-)--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

I'm interested that no one has commented on the resemblance between this song and one recorded by Oscar Brand which he called "The Winnipeg Whore". Verses were almost identical except for venue and there was no chorus, just a repeat of last line of each verse.Mary Stafford

> I'm interested that no one has commented on the resemblance between this
> song and one recorded by Oscar Brand which he called "The Winnipeg
> Whore". Verses were almost identical except for venue and there was no
> chorus, just a repeat of last line of each verse.
>
> Mary StaffordAs I recall, the very first post on this called it a version of "The
Winnepeg Whore."  I believe that "The Winnepeg Whore" is by far the best
know title.  I'm not in a position (out of town) to look in Cray or
Legman/Randolph, but I'm certain that both contain small dissertations on
this song.John Garst

Folks:David was kind enough to bring me up to date on the CD plans of Heritage.
I am forwarding it FYI.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:08:01 +0000
From: [unmask]
To: Ed Cray <[unmask]>
Subject: Heritage Muse - The Heritage Collectors - Digital ChildHi Ed,Sorry, the new web-site goes live this week.  Since we announced all this at
AFS here is the latest scoop.1 - At AFS, at the NOMAD Festival, and elsewhere, I have been demoing the
actual Child product (Heritage Collectors #1) to live audiences here in the
northeast.2 - Due to technical issues the target release date slipped.  Those issues
have been wonderfully resolved and we are working our proverbial rear-ends off
to put the package in folks hands around Christmas (this year).  It may be
tight but if the manufacturer can move fast enough we can do it.3 - Demos of some of the product features will be available on the web-site by
end of this week.4 - Heritage Collectors # 2, to follow Child, will be "Traditional American
Folk Songs from the Anne & Frank Warner Collection".  We're doing this in an
expanded edition with 20+ new songs/ballads added onto the original.  Same
format aa the Child (digital, searchable text; computer playable tunes; new
maps; an accompanying audio CD; etc.).  SLated for release Spring/Summer 2003.5. - Heritage Collectors # 3 - Bronson's full four volumes of the tunes for
the Child Ballads.  To be published in cooperation with Princeton University
Press.  Same treatment as above.  Slated for Fall/Winter 2003.6. - Heritage Collectors Other Projects - We have an agressive agenda for the
Heritage Collectors Digital Folk Music Library and have already begun work
on: "The Collected Works of Cecil Sharp", "The Abandoned Child", several
previously unreleased, private collections and a two volume set of
Maritime/Naval/Chantey collectors (British and American).  Overall we're
looking at 10-12 projects in the next 5-6 years.  We'll have to see how the
Child and subsequent projects go.I hope this helps.Watch your email for announcements about the web-site and product shipments.Thanks,David M. Kleiman
President
Heritage Muse, Inc. and ESPB
Publishing, Ltd.
165 West End Avenue - Suite 12D
New York, NY 10023
212-724-7840 (office)
917-575-9633 (cell)
[unmask]
www.heritagemuse.com
> Guys:
>
> A check of your website revealed none of the promised informationa bout
> future plans.  Can you advise?
>
> Is the Child available?
>
> Ed
>
>
>

<<As I recall, the very first post on this called it a version of "The
Winnepeg Whore."  I believe that "The Winnepeg Whore" is by far the best
know title.  I'm not in a position (out of town) to look in Cray or
Legman/Randolph, but I'm certain that both contain small dissertations on
this song.>>Yes, both under the title "The Winnipeg Whore".Peace,
Paul

Well, not quite *really* NAILED, but an important piece of
incremental progress.The W. T. Blankenship broadsides, "John Henry, the Steel Driving Man"
and "The Great Titanic," are "no place, no date."This morning I received in the mail a xerox copy of a third
Blankenship broadside, "Our President."  This is an effusion about
WWI.  At the bottom is printed:                   W. T. BLANKENSHIP
PRICE 5 CENTS                        Huntsville, AlabamaFor several months now I have speculated that W. T. Blankenship lived
in north Alabama or adjacent Tennessee.  This finding nails his
residence (or at least the place of his publishing operation).
--
john garst    [unmask]

>Well, not quite *really* NAILED, but an important piece of
>incremental progress.
>
>The W. T. Blankenship broadsides, "John Henry, the Steel Driving Man"
>and "The Great Titanic," are "no place, no date."
>
>This morning I received in the mail a xerox copy of a third
>Blankenship broadside, "Our President."  This is an effusion about
>WWI.  At the bottom is printed:
>
>
>                   W. T. BLANKENSHIP
>PRICE 5 CENTS                        Huntsville, Alabama
>
>
>
>For several months now I have speculated that W. T. Blankenship lived
>in north Alabama or adjacent Tennessee.  This finding nails his
>residence (or at least the place of his publishing operation).
>--
>john garst    [unmask]Isn't it grand when that happens?  All of a sudden it all seems worth it -
especially when one's speculation is so neatly confirmed!Congratulations!An now you can put in your "5 cents worth" whereas all the rest of us just
get 2 :-)David G. Engleemail:  [unmask]
web:    http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore
        http://www.csufresno.edu/forlang        The Traditional Ballad Index:
        http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html---

Folks:This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K. Sharpe's
_A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of Old
Ballads_ (1844).Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
abebooks.com.Ed
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads 3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
(Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on front
pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w complete,
spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published in this
form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between 1823
and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X £35.00Dear EdThis book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week from today.
Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of £41.00,
which is $65.00.
A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost of
£38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take up to 8
weeks to arrive.
Books are sent on receipt of payment.Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your card
number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue number, if
applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this information
in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a simple way.
Please note our Paypal registered email address is [unmask] .Best wishesRoger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
Aucott & Thomas
45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.+44 1455 450195[unmask]View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk

Ed:
Are you going for this?  If not, I might.
Norm----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)> Folks:
>
> This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.
>
> It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K. Sharpe's
> _A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
> Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of Old
> Ballads_ (1844).
>
> Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
> abebooks.com.
>
> Ed
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
> From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
>
>  3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
> (Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on front
> pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w
complete,
> spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published in
this
> form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between 1823
> and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X £35.00
>
> Dear Ed
>
> This book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week from
today.
> Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of £41.00,
> which is $65.00.
> A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost of
> £38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take up to 8
> weeks to arrive.
> Books are sent on receipt of payment.
>
> Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your card
> number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue number, if
> applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this
information
> in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
> Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a simple
way.
> Please note our Paypal registered email address is [unmask] .
>
> Best wishes
>
> Roger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
> Aucott & Thomas
> 45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.
>
> +44 1455 450195
>
> [unmask]
>
> View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk

Hi,I do not wish to push myself forward.I am a second-hand folk book and record dealer and I would certainly be
interested in this if no-one else wants it.I regard myself as third in the queue at the moment and I hope that is OK.Dave Eyrewww.collectorsfolk.co.uk----- Original Message -----
From: "Norm Cohen" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)> Ed:
> Are you going for this?  If not, I might.
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)
>
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.
> >
> > It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K.
Sharpe's
> > _A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
> > Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of Old
> > Ballads_ (1844).
> >
> > Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
> > abebooks.com.
> >
> > Ed
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
> > From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
> > To: [unmask]
> > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
> >
> >  3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
> > (Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on front
> > pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w
> complete,
> > spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published in
> this
> > form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between
1823
> > and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X £35.00
> >
> > Dear Ed
> >
> > This book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week from
> today.
> > Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of £41.00,
> > which is $65.00.
> > A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost of
> > £38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take up to
8
> > weeks to arrive.
> > Books are sent on receipt of payment.
> >
> > Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your card
> > number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue number, if
> > applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this
> information
> > in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
> > Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a simple
> way.
> > Please note our Paypal registered email address is [unmask]
.
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Roger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
> > Aucott & Thomas
> > 45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.
> >
> > +44 1455 450195
> >
> > [unmask]
> >
> > View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk
>
>

Norm and All:Feel free.  I have a copy of the reprint, and two of the handsomely
printed original imprints.EdOn Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Norm Cohen wrote:> Ed:
> Are you going for this?  If not, I might.
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:12 PM
> Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)
>
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.
> >
> > It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K. Sharpe's
> > _A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
> > Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of Old
> > Ballads_ (1844).
> >
> > Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
> > abebooks.com.
> >
> > Ed
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
> > From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
> > To: [unmask]
> > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
> >
> >  3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
> > (Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on front
> > pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w
> complete,
> > spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published in
> this
> > form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between 1823
> > and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X £35.00
> >
> > Dear Ed
> >
> > This book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week from
> today.
> > Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of £41.00,
> > which is $65.00.
> > A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost of
> > £38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take up to 8
> > weeks to arrive.
> > Books are sent on receipt of payment.
> >
> > Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your card
> > number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue number, if
> > applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this
> information
> > in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
> > Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a simple
> way.
> > Please note our Paypal registered email address is [unmask] .
> >
> > Best wishes
> >
> > Roger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
> > Aucott & Thomas
> > 45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.
> >
> > +44 1455 450195
> >
> > [unmask]
> >
> > View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk
>

With your permission I'm going to pursue this.
I see some intesting items on your own website; I'll get back to you in a
day or two.
Cordially,
Norm Cohen----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Eyre" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)> Hi,
>
> I do not wish to push myself forward.
>
> I am a second-hand folk book and record dealer and I would certainly be
> interested in this if no-one else wants it.
>
> I regard myself as third in the queue at the moment and I hope that is OK.
>
> Dave Eyre
>
> www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Norm Cohen" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:20 PM
> Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)
>
>
> > Ed:
> > Are you going for this?  If not, I might.
> > Norm
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
(fwd)
> >
> >
> > > Folks:
> > >
> > > This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.
> > >
> > > It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K.
> Sharpe's
> > > _A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
> > > Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of Old
> > > Ballads_ (1844).
> > >
> > > Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
> > > abebooks.com.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
> > > From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
> > > To: [unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
> > >
> > >  3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
> > > (Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on
front
> > > pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w
> > complete,
> > > spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published in
> > this
> > > form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between
> 1823
> > > and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X £35.00
> > >
> > > Dear Ed
> > >
> > > This book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week from
> > today.
> > > Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of
£41.00,
> > > which is $65.00.
> > > A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost
of
> > > £38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take up
to
> 8
> > > weeks to arrive.
> > > Books are sent on receipt of payment.
> > >
> > > Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your card
> > > number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue number,
if
> > > applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this
> > information
> > > in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
> > > Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a
simple
> > way.
> > > Please note our Paypal registered email address is
[unmask]
> .
> > >
> > > Best wishes
> > >
> > > Roger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
> > > Aucott & Thomas
> > > 45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.
> > >
> > > +44 1455 450195
> > >
> > > [unmask]
> > >
> > > View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk
> >
> >

Thanks for that. I should explain I am a stickler for customer care. I am
one of those people who make store managers tremble just at the sight of me.
And when we most people cannot be bothered - I am!!So.............whatever you as a customer ask for you shall get!! ("How's
that for polishing apples" - Peggy Seeger)I explained to Ed.............I am not full time.....(was hoping to be but
my institution turned me down for early retirement).So.......I deal books and records, direct the artistic side of a folk
festival and work f/t as a lecturer in the GB equivalent of a community
college.And think I am lucky!! Get back to me whenever you are ready.And lovely to meet you.Dave> With your permission I'm going to pursue this.
> I see some intesting items on your own website; I'll get back to you in a
> day or two.
> Cordially,
> Norm Cohen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Eyre" <[unmask]>
> To: <[unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads (fwd)
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I do not wish to push myself forward.
> >
> > I am a second-hand folk book and record dealer and I would certainly be
> > interested in this if no-one else wants it.
> >
> > I regard myself as third in the queue at the moment and I hope that is
OK.
> >
> > Dave Eyre
> >
> > www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Norm Cohen" <[unmask]>
> > To: <[unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 11:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
(fwd)
> >
> >
> > > Ed:
> > > Are you going for this?  If not, I might.
> > > Norm
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
> > > To: <[unmask]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 8:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
> (fwd)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Folks:
> > > >
> > > > This is a rare find indeed -- if you can afford it.
> > > >
> > > > It contains Edmund Goldsmid reprints of the late 19th C. of C.K.
> > Sharpe's
> > > > _A Ballad Book_ (1823), Maidment's _ North Countrie Garland_ (1824),
> > > > Kinloch's _The Ballad Book_ (1827), and Maiudment's _A New Book of
Old
> > > > Ballads_ (1844).
> > > >
> > > > Individually, these four books are showing up for $100 or more on
> > > > abebooks.com.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 22:56:34 +0000
> > > > From: Roger Thomas <[unmask]>
> > > > To: [unmask]
> > > > Subject: Re: abebooks.com Book Inquiry: Choice old Scottish ballads
> > > >
> > > >  3199 Stevenson, T (ed) Choice old Scottish ballads EP Publishing
> > > > (Wakefield) 1976/1st thus vg/vg Book has a booksellers sticker on
> front
> > > > pastedown, else unmarked and little used. Dj is priceclipped, o/w
> > > complete,
> > > > spine strip very sl faded. Reprint of a scarce book first published
in
> > > this
> > > > form in 1868, previously published in 4 separate collections between
> > 1823
> > > > and 1844. 408pp. Uncommon title. Hardcover. ISBN 0 7158 1141 X
£35.00
> > > >
> > > > Dear Ed
> > > >
> > > > This book is available and we will reserve it for you for 1 week
from
> > > today.
> > > > Airmail postage to the US will add £6.00, giving a total cost of
> £41.00,
> > > > which is $65.00.
> > > > A cheaper option would be surface mail, which will give a total cost
> of
> > > > £38.00 ($60.00), but please note that if sent this way it may take
up
> to
> > 8
> > > > weeks to arrive.
> > > > Books are sent on receipt of payment.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding methods of payment, we take most cards so send us your
card
> > > > number, type of card, name on the card, expiry date and issue
number,
> if
> > > > applicable - for security it is a good idea to send part of this
> > > information
> > > > in one e-mail message and the rest in a second message.
> > > > Alternatively if you have a Paypal account, this would also be a
> simple
> > > way.
> > > > Please note our Paypal registered email address is
> [unmask]
> > .
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes
> > > >
> > > > Roger Thomas & Jacquie Aucott
> > > > Aucott & Thomas
> > > > 45 Mount Avenue, Barwell, Leicestershire. LE9 8AJ U.K.
> > > >
> > > > +44 1455 450195
> > > >
> > > > [unmask]
> > > >
> > > > View our stock at www.aucott.co.uk
> > >
> > >
>
>

Hi!        Another week - another list! Enjoy!        SONGSTERS        923181450 - 3 books from the 1880's, $14.99 (ends Nov-24-02
16:17:32 PST)        1585578818 - 3 McGuffey's publications inc. ECLECTIC READER
REVIVAL SONGSTER, 1859, $15.50 (ends Nov-24-02 19:20:12 PST)        1971486371 - "OUR BOYS" Songster, WWI era, $4.99 (ends Nov-28-02
12:30:35 PST)        923743537 - MORRIS BROTHERS: PELL & TROWBRIDGE'S Songs, 1860,
$14.95 (ends Nov-26-02 18:34:55 PST)        SONGBOOKS, ETC.        1584902600 - The Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border by Scott,
1979 printing, 1.99 GBP (ends Nov-23-02 16:56:38 PST)        922901389 - FOLK MUSIC IN AMERICA: A Reference Guide by Miller,
1986, $29.99 (ends Nov-23-02 18:29:56 PST)        923546566 - JIM & JANE'S MOUNTAIN AND WESTERN BALLADS, early
1940's, $5 (ends Nov-24-02 10:15:00 PST)        923195950 - Songs of the Hill-Folk by Niles, 1934, $5.99 (ends
Nov-24-02 17:01:03 PST)        923276167 - T. Moore's Irish Melodies, 1800's, $5 (ends
Nov-24-02 20:24:53 PST)        737601180 - NEGRO FOLK SONGS AS SUNG BY LEAD BELLY by Lomax,
1936, $19.99 w/reserve (ends Nov-24-02 21:04:52 PST)        737799697 - Canal Water and Whiskey by Rapp, 1965, $29.99 (ends
Nov-25-02 13:33:01 PST)        1970280554 - HAITI SINGING by Courlander, 1939, $69.95 (ends
Nov-25-02 19:05:29 PST)        923609884 - IN DUBLIN'S FAIR CITY, 1968, $6 (ends Nov-26-02
09:17:46 PST)        1584769031 - Folksongs and Folklore of South Uist by Shaw, 1955,
$10 w/reserve (ends Nov-26-02 11:40:07 PST)        923826450 - folk songs as sung by Stoney Cooper and Wilma Lee,
$4.99 (ends Nov-27-02 05:39:44 PST)        1971917371 - Handmade notebook of Civil War songs, $9.99 (ends
Nov-27-02 11:28:14 PST)        1971237549 - More Irish Street Ballads by O'Lochlainn, 1978
reprint, $1.75 (ends Nov-27-02 19:59:06 PST)        1585652771 - Ozark Folksongs by Randolph, volume 3, 1980, $39
(ends Nov-27-02 20:49:38 PST)        924122653 - One Hundred English Folksongs by Sharp, 1975 Dover
edition, $4.99 (ends Nov-28-02 09:53:20 PST)        MISCELLANEOUS        1585531624 - The Country Dance Book Part III by Sharp, 1912,
$7.50 (ends Nov-24-02 18:27:57 PST)        1585004907 - THAT HIGH LONESOME SOUND, video, $3 (ends Nov-26-02
20:21:14 PST)                                Happy bidding!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Folks:I would like to locate the apparently unpublished Goldstein-Fowke
manuscript.  Anyone have any ideas where it might be?Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:08:06 -0500
From: dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
Reply-To: [unmask]
To: Ed Cray <[unmask]>
Subject: Re: Can You Locate?Hi Ed-
Unfortunately, the book never got published. Wilfrid Laurier Press
(Canadian, BTW) informs me that it was originally scheduled for 2001, then
slipped to 2003 and at this time has been dropped with no plans for release.
The lady there told me that the woman who was the driving force for
publishing this (Linda Morley?) died.dick greenhausEd Cray wrote:> Dick:
>
> I understand that Wilfrid Laurier University Press, a British publisher,
> is to bring out Kenneth Goldstein and Edith Fowke's _Bawdy Ballads and
> Dirty Ditties from Ontario and Newfoundland_ in Janaury, 2003.  The ISBN
> number is 0889203849.
>
> My local bookstore could find no mention of it in forthcoming
> announcements, which leads me to believe it will not be published here.
>
> Can you find it?  I would rather give the money to you than to
> Amazon.co.uk, which lists the book at 18.33 BP with a US list of $28.95.
>
> Ed

I understand that the editor is Rochelle Goldstien.  She lives in (or just
outside) Philadelphia.At 11:20 AM 11/26/2002 -0800, Ed Cray wrote:
>Folks:
>
>I would like to locate the apparently unpublished Goldstein-Fowke
>manuscript.  Anyone have any ideas where it might be?
>
>Ed
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:08:06 -0500
>From: dick greenhaus <[unmask]>
>Reply-To: [unmask]
>To: Ed Cray <[unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Can You Locate?
>
>Hi Ed-
>Unfortunately, the book never got published. Wilfrid Laurier Press
>(Canadian, BTW) informs me that it was originally scheduled for 2001, then
>slipped to 2003 and at this time has been dropped with no plans for release.
>The lady there told me that the woman who was the driving force for
>publishing this (Linda Morley?) died.
>
>dick greenhaus
>
>Ed Cray wrote:
>
> > Dick:
> >
> > I understand that Wilfrid Laurier University Press, a British publisher,
> > is to bring out Kenneth Goldstein and Edith Fowke's _Bawdy Ballads and
> > Dirty Ditties from Ontario and Newfoundland_ in Janaury, 2003.  The ISBN
> > number is 0889203849.
> >
> > My local bookstore could find no mention of it in forthcoming
> > announcements, which leads me to believe it will not be published here.
> >
> > Can you find it?  I would rather give the money to you than to
> > Amazon.co.uk, which lists the book at 18.33 BP with a US list of $28.95.
> >
> > Ed

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:20:19AM -0800, Ed Cray wrote:
> Folks:
>
> I would like to locate the apparently unpublished Goldstein-Fowke
> manuscript.  Anyone have any ideas where it might be?
>
> Ed        Several years ago I was sent a copy of the ms for review by Judy
McCulloh of UI Press (as were you, Ed!).  Eventually I delivered my
report, recommending publication, but evidently that press passed on
the opportunity to publish, and whoever was parenting that project
must have found the Canadian press, with the result that Dick describes.
        My understanding was that Rachelle Goldstein, Ken Goldstein's
widow, was backing the effort -- and she is, as of the last AFS
meeting in Rochester, very much alive and dancing.
        I was, however, distressed to learn that something dreadful might
have happened to my friend Linda Morley, whom I met and used to see
at AFS meetings.  Does anyone on this list know more? -- Aloha, Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask]
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360
*** FRIENDS: If your Reply message is Rejected by my spam-fighting ISP,
please try sending it to: [unmask] OR [unmask]

OK, youse guys, since you've made this part of the project public, I'll add
what I can.  Usually this kind of information stays behind the scenes.  Let
me ask you all to keep it thus.  I would not want to jinx a fine project
that has already been subject to so much stress.I had indeed gotten a couple of good reports on the manuscript, pretty much
on a yes/no basis, since neither Kenny nor Edith was still around to revise.
However, when we discussed this in house (director plus department heads
plus moi), the consensus was that we wouldn't find a sufficient market for
this big, expensive book with a Canadian focus.  I suggested to Rochelle
that she try to place this with a Canadian publisher, with the thought of
then finding an American distributor who could handle a smaller number of
books than it would have been economically feasible to print from scratch.
I had some correspondence with Sandra Woolfrey at Wilfrid Laurier UP and
sent her the readers' reports.  One of the reviewers had suggested that I
write an intro or foreword, which I declined.  Then Sandra left (presumably
no cause&effect).  Maybe she was the mystery woman who was championing this
"labour intensive" project, and it wasn't that she died but that she
retired?  Anyway, in December, 1999, the new director at WLUP, Brian
Henderson, asked me to resend the reports, which I did.  In February, 2000,
he asked about the disks.  I replied that I had never seen any disks, only
hard copy, the full text and sample music transcriptions.  In November,
2001, he wrote that "during the editorial process" they realized they didn't
have the most recent version of the manuscript on disk, and wondered if I
still had the disks.  I again replied No but noted that Rochelle had
mentioned having the music prepared on computer.  He replied that Rochelle
was rechecking the disks she had and they were eking their way forward.
That's the last communication about the project I can find.Rochelle spoke with one person I know of at AFS, asking who might serve as
editor.  That might mean she has a publisher who required an in-kind subsidy
in the form of editing and/or keystroking, or she was thinking of publishing
the collection herself, or she wanted to get it into the shape publishers
require nowadays and then submit it with presumably a better chance of
acceptance.  The manuscript was large and would have been very
expensive--especially if it had to be typeset from scratch rather than from
disk.  Ed, it sounds to me like Rochelle has the manuscript.I almost think that Web publication might be the best way to go, at least
for starters, working from disk or shooting clean pages.JudyJudith McCulloh
Assistant Director and Executive Editor
University of Illinois Press
1325 South Oak Street
Champaign, IL 61820-6903
phone: (217) 244 4681
email: [unmask]
www.press.uillinois.edu----- Original Message -----
From: "Cal & Lani Herrmann" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: Missing Manuscript> On Tue, Nov 26, 2002 at 11:20:19AM -0800, Ed Cray wrote:
> > Folks:
> >
> > I would like to locate the apparently unpublished Goldstein-Fowke
> > manuscript.  Anyone have any ideas where it might be?
> >
> > Ed
>
>         Several years ago I was sent a copy of the ms for review by Judy
> McCulloh of UI Press (as were you, Ed!).  Eventually I delivered my
> report, recommending publication, but evidently that press passed on
> the opportunity to publish, and whoever was parenting that project
> must have found the Canadian press, with the result that Dick describes.
>         My understanding was that Rachelle Goldstein, Ken Goldstein's
> widow, was backing the effort -- and she is, as of the last AFS
> meeting in Rochester, very much alive and dancing.
>         I was, however, distressed to learn that something dreadful might
> have happened to my friend Linda Morley, whom I met and used to see
> at AFS meetings.  Does anyone on this list know more? -- Aloha, Lani
>
> <||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask]
> <||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360
> *** FRIENDS: If your Reply message is Rejected by my spam-fighting ISP,
> please try sending it to: [unmask] OR [unmask]

Another example of booksellers offering for sale something never published.There are two books I wrote that Amazon claim to be able to supply.
One was announced by the publisher but never published. The other publisher
went out of business 6 years ago, and I know that no stocks ever got to
Amazon.Ewan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

In the computer world, this is known as "vaporware". However, on the brighter
side, the long-awaited Volume 8 of the Greig-Duncan Collection has arrived at
my office; I'll start filling orders on Monday.dick greenhausEwan McVicar wrote:> Another example of booksellers offering for sale something never published.
>
> There are two books I wrote that Amazon claim to be able to supply.
> One was announced by the publisher but never published. The other publisher
> went out of business 6 years ago, and I know that no stocks ever got to
> Amazon.
>
> Ewan McVicar
> 84 High Street
> Linlithgow
> EH49 7AQ
> 01506 847935

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

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                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

I came across this tale in _Norwegian Folk Tales_, from the collection of
Peter Christen  Asbjørnsen, 1812-1885 and Jørgen Engebretsen Moe,
1813-1882, (trans. Pat Shaw Iverson & Carl Norman) New York, Viking Press,
1960.Thought you might find it interesting.                  THE PARSON AND THE SEXTON        There was once a parson who was such a blusterer that whenever he
saw anyone come driving towards him on the highway, he would roar from
afar: "Off the Road! Off the road! here comes the parson himself!"
        Once when he was carrying on like this, he met the king.
        "Off the road! Off the road!" he shouted a long way off; but the
king kept on driving straight ahead. So, for once, the parson had to turn
his horse aside. And when the king came alongside he said, "Tomorrow you
shall come to the court. And if you can't answer three questions I am
going to put to you, you shall lose both frock and collar for the sake of
your pride!"
        This was quite a different tune from what the parson was used to.
Bluster and bellow he could, and carry on worse than bad, too. But
question-and-answer was out of his field. So he went to the sexton, who
was said to have a better head on his shoulders than the parson, and told
him that he wasn't keen on going, "for one fool can ask more than ten wise
men can answer," he said. And so he got the sexton to go in his place.
        Well, the sexton went; and he came to the royal manor dressed in
the parson's frock and ruff collar. The king met him out on the porch,
wearing both crown and scepter, and looking so grand he fairly shone.
        "So you're there, are you?" said the king.
        Yes he was .... that was sure enough.
        "Now, tell me first," said the king, "how far is it from east to
west?"
        "That's a day's journey, that is," said the sexton.
        "How so?" asked the king.
        "We....ll, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, and
does it nicely in a day," said the sexton.
        "All right," said the king, "but tell me now, what do you think
I'm worth, just as you see me here?"
        "Let's see, Christ was valued at thirty pieces of silver, so I'd
better not set you any higher than.... twenty-nine," said the sexton.
        "Mmmmmmmmmmmm!" said the king. "Well, since you're so wise on all
counts, tell me what I'm thinking now!"
        "Oh, I suppose you're thinking that it's the parson who's standing
here before you. But I'm sorry to say you're wrong, for it's the sexton!"
        "Aha! Then go home with you, and you be parson and let him be
sexton!" said the king.
        And so it was!-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:25:35 -0500, Abby Sale wrote:>To: [unmask]
>Subject: THE PARSON AND THE ...  (easy quiz)
>From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>Interesting... I tried to send this several times with subject: "THE
PARSON AND THE SEXTON."  The ballad-l filters would not permit the word
'sexton' to go through.  Too suggestive, I guess.I feel safer now.The (easy) quiz part was Which ballad is this?   Of it it has been said,
"The oldest known version was discovered by Professor C. C. Torrey in the
Conquest of Egypt, an Arabic historical work of about 850 A.D., and is
thought by him to be 'a genuine bit of Coptic folk-lore,' current in Egypt
long before the Arab invasion in the seventh century."(Nicely sung by Margaret M. - I know no other tunes.)-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
                        Boycott South Carolina!
        http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml

Abby:This is one of the most studied of folktales and ballads: Mt. 922 "The
Shepherd Substituting for the Priest," or Child 45, "King John and the
Bishop [of Canterbury]."  Its range in tale and ballad (Child's notes
are awe-inspiring) is about as widespread as any known, from India to the
United States, in both English-language and Spanish versions; from the
Scandinavian countries to the Cape Verde Islands.There are also a number of bawdy or obscene versions of the tale told in
joke form.EdOn Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Abby Sale wrote:> On Fri, 29 Nov 2002 11:25:35 -0500, Abby Sale wrote:
>
> >To: [unmask]
> >Subject: THE PARSON AND THE ...  (easy quiz)
> >From: Abby Sale <[unmask]>
>
> Interesting... I tried to send this several times with subject: "THE
> PARSON AND THE SEXTON."  The ballad-l filters would not permit the word
> 'sexton' to go through.  Too suggestive, I guess.
>
> I feel safer now.
>
> The (easy) quiz part was Which ballad is this?   Of it it has been said,
> "The oldest known version was discovered by Professor C. C. Torrey in the
> Conquest of Egypt, an Arabic historical work of about 850 A.D., and is
> thought by him to be 'a genuine bit of Coptic folk-lore,' current in Egypt
> long before the Arab invasion in the seventh century."
>
> (Nicely sung by Margaret M. - I know no other tunes.)
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -
>                   I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida
>                         Boycott South Carolina!
>         http://www.naacp.org/news/releases/confederateflag011201.shtml
>

My favorite hoax information site is
http://www.purportal.com/ ("The bunk stops here").
It's one of several I consult regularly (and I'm on
the Urban Legend mailing list from About.com). It's my
"favorite" because it has links to all the others and
I prefer its search capabilities.At Snopes you can put the hoax list in order
alphabetically or by date.You can never have too many sources of information.Linn=====
******************************************************************
Linn S. Schulz
Writing - Editing - Print Design & Production
phone/fax 603-942-7604
Mailing Address: PO Box 4402, Portsmouth, NH 03802  USA******************************************************************__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: Linn Schulz <[unmask]><<My favorite hoax information site is
http://www.purportal.com/ ("The bunk stops here").
It's one of several I consult regularly (and I'm on
the Urban Legend mailing list from About.com). It's my
"favorite" because it has links to all the others and
I prefer its search capabilities.>>Unfortunately, it's seriously infested with pop-up ads. I just closed five
of them.Peace,
Paul

On Thu, Oct 31, 2002 at 04:08:04PM -0500, dick greenhaus wrote:        [ ... ]> I guess that whay I was saying is based on the concept that storing data
> and presenting data don't have to be in the same format. If the master
> is stored in, say, BMP it's a trivial matter to ZIP it or STUFF it,
> depending on the computer operating system your final reader uses,
> whether it be Mac or Windows, or Unix or Atari. And the data won't be
> screwed up when somebody introduces Windows XXXXP or Mac OS 99.        It will certainly be screwed up -- for the users -- if Windows
XXXXP declares BMP to be an unsupported format, and will not run any
older program which *can* display BMP.  And, yes -- this *is* possible.
BMP is so common on Windows boxen because it is the native format which
is a 1-for-1 match with the way images are displayed by the hardware.
An improvement in the hardware could render the images unviewable.  (Not
saying that Microsoft would do that -- but I'm not saying that they
won't, either.> Space isn't really a problem for storage nowadays--just for
> transmission.        Hmm ... that depends.  How many images of which resolution do
you want to put on a given system?  I've got a high-resolution scanner
for 35mm slides which produces a choice of BMP or TGA formats (which
appear to be very similar).  Either of them, for a full-frame scan at
full resolution, produces a 72MB image.  That is on the order of ten or
fewer full resolution images on a CD-ROM.  And not everybody has DVD
players on their system yet.  (I sure don't, because the OS comes on
CD-ROM, not DVD, and I need to be able to boot an installation CD-ROM
from time to time.> dick greenhaus--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 11:02:07AM -0600, Paul Stamler wrote:        [ ... ]> From: Linn Schulz <[unmask]>        [ ... ]> <<My favorite hoax information site is
> http://www.purportal.com/ ("The bunk stops here").
> It's one of several I consult regularly (and I'm on
> the Urban Legend mailing list from About.com). It's my
> "favorite" because it has links to all the others and
> I prefer its search capabilities.>>
>
> Unfortunately, it's seriously infested with pop-up ads. I just closed five
> of them.        Turn off JavaScript before you visit it, and you'll see none of
those pop-ups.  (At least, I saw none, and I keep JavaScript, Java, and
cookies turned off unless I *really* need them.)        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

On 11/1/02, dick greenhaus wrote:>Don-
>I suppose that Microsoft (or Apple) could decide not to support any given format at any time, but it seems highly unlikely that the various applications folks use for photo work and publishing won't continue to recognize TIFF and BMP formats for a long, long time.This doesn't follow, really (though we're getting *way* off-topic
here). If MS decides to kill BMP, it could eliminate the OS hooks
supporting it. If it did so, then applications which formerly
used those hooks (which is just about every graphics program
ever written) would break.This makes it most unlikely that it would happen. But it *could*.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

On Fri, Nov 01, 2002 at 01:40:34PM -0600, Robert B. Waltz wrote:> On 11/1/02, dick greenhaus wrote:
>
> >Don-
> >I suppose that Microsoft (or Apple) could decide not to support any given format at any time, but it seems highly unlikely that the various applications folks use for photo work and publishing won't continue to recognize TIFF and BMP formats for a long, long time.
>
> This doesn't follow, really (though we're getting *way* off-topic
> here). If MS decides to kill BMP, it could eliminate the OS hooks
> supporting it. If it did so, then applications which formerly
> used those hooks (which is just about every graphics program
> ever written) would break.        *Except* for the non-Windows based programs, which had to build
alternative ways to display the images -- leaving only *old* Windows
boxen, and non-Windows boxen able to view the images -- until someone
ported those non-Windows programs to Windows.> This makes it most unlikely that it would happen. But it *could*.        Which was the point which I was making.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---