I can't recall what I saw then, but I know Folcroft (and also Norwood, for
that matter) published facsimiles of one of the Forget Me Not Songsters.
(The latter edition limited to 100 copies; unlike the original from which it
was taken, which hit at least 130,000.)
Norm>
> What did Folcroft publish that were so expensive?
>
> Ed

Norm:I noted too, by a check of the Library of Congress catalogue (which does
not have everything printed in the United States, I might add), that both
Folcroft and Norwood in the same year reprinted Ransome's _Songs of the
Wexford Coast._  I think I noted one other too, the title of which slips
my mind.I have no idea why two related (?) companies would each reprint the same
books in the same year unless it was a market-driven strategy.EdOn Wed, 17 Apr 2002, Norm Cohen wrote:> I can't recall what I saw then, but I know Folcroft (and also Norwood, for
> that matter) published facsimiles of one of the Forget Me Not Songsters.
> (The latter edition limited to 100 copies; unlike the original from which it
> was taken, which hit at least 130,000.)
> Norm
>
> >
> > What did Folcroft publish that were so expensive?
> >
> > Ed
>

I'm interested in Harlow's Chanteying book.  I note the high bidder is
[unmask]  Isn't that someone on this list?
Norm

Oh indeed it is, don't you know it is,
To my right fol toodle addy, O indeed it is.But as others have noted, we all have our strategies and we have to
go for what we want.. Dean Clamons, eg had bid on the Sharp books but
despite our best intentions not to outbid him he didn't get them.(Is "gambababe" on this list, I wonder. I've encountered her before
also, as someone noted here, "man-at-sea")Anyway, Norm, yes I have bid on this, but I'll be out of town when
the auction ends (probably hob-nobbing with that Sandy Paton fellow
at NEFFA), and unable to do anymore bidding even if I wanted to.John Roberts.>I'm interested in Harlow's Chanteying book.  I note the high bidder is
>[unmask]  Isn't that someone on this list?
>Norm

Man-at-sea (I really wanted man@c) is me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Roberts" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 4/16/02> Oh indeed it is, don't you know it is,
> To my right fol toodle addy, O indeed it is.
>
> But as others have noted, we all have our strategies and we have to
> go for what we want.. Dean Clamons, eg had bid on the Sharp books but
> despite our best intentions not to outbid him he didn't get them.
>
> (Is "gambababe" on this list, I wonder. I've encountered her before
> also, as someone noted here, "man-at-sea")
>
> Anyway, Norm, yes I have bid on this, but I'll be out of town when
> the auction ends (probably hob-nobbing with that Sandy Paton fellow
> at NEFFA), and unable to do anymore bidding even if I wanted to.
>
> John Roberts.
>
>
>
>
> >I'm interested in Harlow's Chanteying book.  I note the high bidder is
> >[unmask]  Isn't that someone on this list?
> >Norm

I half thought it might be - you've beaten me out on a few things I wanted :-)
I might come back at you and enquire about them.
Thank you for owning up to your handle.
John.>Man-at-sea (I really wanted man@c) is me.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Roberts" <[unmask]>
>To: <[unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:14 AM
>Subject: Re: Ebay List - 4/16/02
>
>
>> Oh indeed it is, don't you know it is,
>> To my right fol toodle addy, O indeed it is.
>>
>> But as others have noted, we all have our strategies and we have to
>> go for what we want.. Dean Clamons, eg had bid on the Sharp books but
>> despite our best intentions not to outbid him he didn't get them.
>>
>> (Is "gambababe" on this list, I wonder. I've encountered her before
>> also, as someone noted here, "man-at-sea")
>>
>> Anyway, Norm, yes I have bid on this, but I'll be out of town when
>> the auction ends (probably hob-nobbing with that Sandy Paton fellow
>> at NEFFA), and unable to do anymore bidding even if I wanted to.
>>
>> John Roberts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >I'm interested in Harlow's Chanteying book.  I note the high bidder is
>> >[unmask]  Isn't that someone on this list?
>> >Norm

For what it's worth, I operate under the name "farquahar." I rarely
buy on eBay, but I do sell. Please feel free to place absurdly high
bids on my offerings.Thanks  --  Tom

I think this illustrates what I meant about Xerox/photocopy/scanning. In today's
economy, it's ludicrous to print 100 copies of anything. I don't know how many
pages the Forget Me Not Songster had, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't fit
on a 670 or
800 MB CD-ROM. Scanning time is a matter of a bit under 30 seconds per page (on
a scanner that cost me $39 new, after rebate). Warehouse and inventory cost is
zero; postage to anyone in the US is 57 cents. Number of copies possible per
press run? Effectively infinite.For PD material, such as the afore-mentioned Songster, I can see no reason for
interested parties not being able to obtain a perfectly usable copy. I'll do it
myself, if anyone wishes to lend me a copy of the book.dick greenhausINorm Cohen wrote:> I can't recall what I saw then, but I know Folcroft (and also Norwood, for
> that matter) published facsimiles of one of the Forget Me Not Songsters.
> (The latter edition limited to 100 copies; unlike the original from which it
> was taken, which hit at least 130,000.)
> Norm
>
> >
> > What did Folcroft publish that were so expensive?
> >
> > Ed

I am Archivist of the Vancouver (BC) Folk Song Society.  All the stuff I buy
is for them.  What did I scoop you on?  I do have *some* doubles but nothing
very esoteric.  Let me know.  Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Roberts" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Ebay List - 4/16/02> I half thought it might be - you've beaten me out on a few things I wanted
:-)
> I might come back at you and enquire about them.
> Thank you for owning up to your handle.
> John.
>
>
> >Man-at-sea (I really wanted man@c) is me.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John Roberts" <[unmask]>
> >To: <[unmask]>
> >Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 11:14 AM
> >Subject: Re: Ebay List - 4/16/02
> >
> >
> >> Oh indeed it is, don't you know it is,
> >> To my right fol toodle addy, O indeed it is.
> >>
> >> But as others have noted, we all have our strategies and we have to
> >> go for what we want.. Dean Clamons, eg had bid on the Sharp books but
> >> despite our best intentions not to outbid him he didn't get them.
> >>
> >> (Is "gambababe" on this list, I wonder. I've encountered her before
> >> also, as someone noted here, "man-at-sea")
> >>
> >> Anyway, Norm, yes I have bid on this, but I'll be out of town when
> >> the auction ends (probably hob-nobbing with that Sandy Paton fellow
> >> at NEFFA), and unable to do anymore bidding even if I wanted to.
> >>
> >> John Roberts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >I'm interested in Harlow's Chanteying book.  I note the high bidder is
> >> >[unmask]  Isn't that someone on this list?
> >> >Norm
>

I had not noticed this before, but eBat Item # 1530464390
is an original edition of Chappell's 2 volume "Popular Music of the
Olden Time."It ends tomorrow morning; opening bit is a bit steep at $100 and
no-one has bid as of this posting.I have the Dover reprint.John Roberts.

Does anyone have an address (preferably email) for Bess Hawes?
Thanks,
Norm

On Thu, Apr 18, 2002 at 02:14:46PM -0400, John Roberts wrote:> Oh indeed it is, don't you know it is,
> To my right fol toodle addy, O indeed it is.
>
> But as others have noted, we all have our strategies and we have to
> go for what we want.. Dean Clamons, eg had bid on the Sharp books but
> despite our best intentions not to outbid him he didn't get them.        My system, when I recognize someone against whom I would rather
not bid (for friendship), is to watch the auction, and *if* that
individual is out-bid, I *then* bid.  Of course, this is no help if the
other is also "sniping" (bidding at the last minute, in the hopes of not
being exposed to a series of probing bids to find out how much it takes
to top your maximum bid).  Sniping is really the most practical system
for winning on eBay (though it is not certain to work -- somebody else
may do the same with a higher maximum bid).  It assures that you won't
pay more than your maximum, but you may lose it -- unless you set an
unrealistic maximum (but your maximum is its worth to *you* after all,
and may be unrealistic in other's eyes.        I know at least one other on this list who cannot practice
sniping, simply thanks to limited access time to the net.  In that case,
the only thing that usually works is to put in a *very* unrealistically
high bid, and hope that nobody will push you up close to it.  You're
simply not on the net when the auction comes to a close, so you have to
live with the uncertainty.  My system allows courtesy to these, while
still allowing a bid (and a chance to win) if they are outbid.  Putting
in a *reasonable* bid early is really asking to lose, unless nobody else
wants it.        [ ... ]> Anyway, Norm, yes I have bid on this, but I'll be out of town when
> the auction ends (probably hob-nobbing with that Sandy Paton fellow
> at NEFFA), and unable to do anymore bidding even if I wanted to.        This is an example where if I were after that book, I would not
bid on it unless *you* were outbid.        Best of luck,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Folks:There is a nice essay on the role the late Dave Van Ronk played in the
revival written by Gene Santoro in the April 22, 2002, issue of _The
Nation,_ pp. 32-37.Ed

Jon Bartlett wrote:
>
> I am Archivist of the Vancouver (BC) Folk Song Society.  All the stuff I buy
> is for them.  What did I scoop you on?  I do have *some* doubles but nothing
> very esoteric.  Let me know.  JonWe (and others on this list?) should talk.  FSSGB (Folk Song Society of
Greater Boston) has some material which is duplicated, and it makes more
sense to trade to other interested parties for material we don't have
than to sell it.We haven't actually made up a list of material we'd be willing to trade,
but it wouldn't hurt to start a dialog...-Don Duncan

trade for free and personal use is a great way to get obscure manuscripts
and publications out and about.actually this could be made a mudcat thread type.If you are doing it at cost and for personal use you will be
well blessed by all concerned!the trouble is letting the last copy turn to dust!
and who knows which the last one is!Go for it!Conrad"Donald A. Duncan" wrote:
>
> Jon Bartlett wrote:
> >
> > I am Archivist of the Vancouver (BC) Folk Song Society.  All the stuff I buy
> > is for them.  What did I scoop you on?  I do have *some* doubles but nothing
> > very esoteric.  Let me know.  Jon
>
> We (and others on this list?) should talk.  FSSGB (Folk Song Society of
> Greater Boston) has some material which is duplicated, and it makes more
> sense to trade to other interested parties for material we don't have
> than to sell it.
>
> We haven't actually made up a list of material we'd be willing to trade,
> but it wouldn't hurt to start a dialog...
>
> -Don Duncan--
He left his home in the heart of the North
To seek streets paved with gold
But when he reached the golden land of dreams
He found he'd struck fool's goldNow some men work for love of  silver.
And some men work for love of gold.
And some men work for bugger all.
And that's all they can afford- The Whiskey Priests, Streets Paved with
GoldConrad  Bladey =
Dance broadly.
Calendar body.
Deadly carbon.
Oddly, Bean car.
Old brandy ace.

Dear Bob et al,I've just noticed that in your Index entry for King John and the
Bishop/Abbot of Canterbury, your description of the plot sas that the
King makes the shepherd the bishop. In the version I sing he refuses:Well, the king he turned him around and did smile
Saying, "You can be abbot the other while."
"Oh, no, my lord, there is no need,
For I can neither write nor read.""Then tuppence a week I will give unto thee
For this merry true jest you have told unto me
Go tell theold abbot when you get home
You've earned him a pardon from good King John."Perhaps the text could be modified to "...offers to make him bishop,
which he either accepts or refuses". Given the dangers accompanying the
post, I always thought it was very sensible of the shepherd to opt for
the cash reward! By the way, do you happen to know how old this version
is? I presume it must be a bit later?Andy

On 4/21/02, Andy Rouse wrote:>Dear Bob et al,
>
>I've just noticed that in your Index entry for King John and the
>Bishop/Abbot of Canterbury, your description of the plot sas that the
>King makes the shepherd the bishop. In the version I sing he refuses:
>
>Well, the king he turned him around and did smile
>Saying, "You can be abbot the other while."
>"Oh, no, my lord, there is no need,
>For I can neither write nor read."
>
>"Then tuppence a week I will give unto thee
>For this merry true jest you have told unto me
>Go tell theold abbot when you get home
>You've earned him a pardon from good King John."
>
>Perhaps the text could be modified to "...offers to make him bishop,
>which he either accepts or refuses".Unfortunately, the description is already as long as our 255
character limit. I can't add without cutting something else.I think I met a version with that ending. But I must have
decided that that was wordage I could omit.It's amazing how hard it can be to describe a song in
255 characters. Imagine trying to do "A Geste of
Robin Hode" that way. :-)--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Folks:Many of us, I am sure, know the children's nonsense rhyme that begins:One fine day in the middle of the night
Two dead boys got up to fight.
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew their swords and shot each other.It's fun, silly, delightful for kids who love subversive lore.  But, after
looking at the British Columbia Folklore Society's site
(http://www.folklore.bc.ca) and the page there devoted to this rhyme, I
realize it is actually the unsung core of a "Ballad of Impossibilities."The BC site, written by Mike Ballantyne (who should be a member of
ballad-l), inserts two "stanzas" into the poem that fill out the story:One was blind and the other couldn't see
So they chose a dummy for a referee.
A blind man went to see fair play
A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"A paralysed donkey passing by
Kicked the blind man in the eye
Knocked him through a nine-inch wall
Into a dry ditch and drowned them all.Then it concludes with a second stanza familiar to me since the 1940s:A deaf policeman heard the noise
And came to arrest the two dead boys.
If you don't believe this story's true,
Ask the blind man.  He saw it too!A number of these songs/ballads of impossibilities were printed as
broadsides in the 18th and 19th centuries.  At least one, "The Derby Ram"
is/was well known in the 20th Century, and Peggy Seeger introduced another
during the folk song revival, "Little Brown Dog," culled from her mother's
anthology of _Animal Folk Songs for Children._Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine Day"
and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of the list
provide references to other songs of impossibilities?Ed

On 4/23/02, Ed Cray wrote:[ ... ]>Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine Day"
>and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of the list
>provide references to other songs of impossibilities?A few lines of this (though only a few lines) sound familiar to
me, and the tune I recall is "Turkey in the Straw." Though that
may not be "original." Nor do I recall where I heard it.As for other Songs of Impossibilities, try the keyword
"talltale" in the Ballad Index. Not every song with that
keyword is a true song of impossibilities, but at least
some will fit."The Song of Wonders" is the best one I can think of.
Nice recording by Maddy Prior and June Tabor.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert B. Waltz <[unmask]><<As for other Songs of Impossibilities, try the keyword
"talltale" in the Ballad Index. Not every song with that
keyword is a true song of impossibilities, but at least
some will fit.>>Also look on "paradox".<<"The Song of Wonders" is the best one I can think of.
Nice recording by Maddy Prior and June Tabor.>>See also "A Horse Named Bill" (in Sandburg's "Songbag"; he recorded it a few
times, for Caedmon, Lyrichord and perhaps Columbia), "Barefoot Boy with
Boots On" (recorded by John McCutcheon & the Grace Family) and its close
relative "Ain't We Crazy" (recorded by Sam Hinton on "I'll Sing You a
Story", Folkways), and "Mary Had a William Goat" (ditto).Peace,
Paul

>As for other Songs of Impossibilities, try the keyword
>"talltale" in the Ballad Index. Not every song with that
>keyword is a true song of impossibilities, but at least
>some will fit.
>
>"The Song of Wonders" is the best one I can think of.
>Nice recording by Maddy Prior and June Tabor.
>
>--
>Bob WaltzNottamun Town
--
john garst    [unmask]

On Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:39 PM, Ed Cray [SMTP:[unmask]] wrote:
> Folks:
>
> Many of us, I am sure, know the children's nonsense rhyme that begins:
>
> One fine day in the middle of the night
> Two dead boys got up to fight.
> Back to back they faced each other,
> Drew their swords and shot each other.
>
> It's fun, silly, delightful for kids who love subversive lore.  But, after
> looking at the British Columbia Folklore Society's site
> (http://www.folklore.bc.ca) and the page there devoted to this rhyme, I
> realize it is actually the unsung core of a "Ballad of Impossibilities."
>
> The BC site, written by Mike Ballantyne (who should be a member of
> ballad-l), inserts two "stanzas" into the poem that fill out the story:
>
> One was blind and the other couldn't see
> So they chose a dummy for a referee.
> A blind man went to see fair play
> A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"
>
> A paralysed donkey passing by
> Kicked the blind man in the eye
> Knocked him through a nine-inch wall
> Into a dry ditch and drowned them all.
>
> Then it concludes with a second stanza familiar to me since the 1940s:
>
> A deaf policeman heard the noise
> And came to arrest the two dead boys.
> If you don't believe this story's true,
> Ask the blind man.  He saw it too!
>
> A number of these songs/ballads of impossibilities were printed as
> broadsides in the 18th and 19th centuries.  At least one, "The Derby Ram"
> is/was well known in the 20th Century, and Peggy Seeger introduced another
> during the folk song revival, "Little Brown Dog," culled from her mother's
> anthology of _Animal Folk Songs for Children._
>
> Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine Day"
> and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of the list
> provide references to other songs of impossibilities?
>
> EdI have never heard this as a song, but the tune of "The Eddystone Light" fits
it quite well.Dean Clamons
Code 7420
Naval Research Lab
Washington, DC 20375
202-767-2732

----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Clamons <[unmask]>> Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine Day"
> and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of the list
> provide references to other songs of impossibilities?
>
> Ed<<I have never heard this as a song, but the tune of "The Eddystone Light"
fits
it quite well.>>"Jawbone" works too, the A part better than the B. Perhaps one could sing
the verses to the A and play B on the fiddle in between.Peace,
Paul

"When I Was a Little Boy" from John Stickle of Shetland is in the
Penguin Book of English Folksongs, and I think of it as a good
example of the genre."The Seven Wonders" which Bob Waltz mentioned is translated out of the Welsh."Nottamun Town" (mentioned by John Garst) is perhaps the best-known
thanks to the Ritchie Family, and loads of people have recorded it.John Roberts.

Oh, and didn't Peter, Paul & Mary do one? "Autumn to May," as I
recall, but I know nothing of its provenance.JR

The version I learned at recess in the schoolyards of
Milwaukee suburbs in the 1950s went like this:Early in the morning, late one night
Two dead boys began to fight.
Back to back they faced each other
Drew their swords and shot each other.
Two deaf policemen heard the noise.
Came and shot the two dead boys.
If you don't believe this tale
Ask the blind man who saw it all.I did some informal research about a year ago after I
realized that there were at least 2 basic schoolyard
chants using the concept of impossible opposites and
found that the two were regional and usually not found
in the same locations.Of course, right now I can't find (damn! didn't put it
into the computer!) the version I didn't learn as a
child and since the, uh, "informal research" was done
late at night with pints of beer rather than pen and
paper on the table,  I'm not sure I can reconstruct it
all. However, in about a month I'll be sitting around
a table singing and talking with the same group of
people.Linn=====
******************************************************************
Linn S. Schulz
Writing - Editing - Print Design & Production
phone/fax 603-942-7604
Mailing Address: PO Box 4402, Portsmouth, NH 03802  USA******************************************************************__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

On 4/23/02, John Roberts wrote:>Oh, and didn't Peter, Paul & Mary do one? "Autumn to May," as I
>recall, but I know nothing of its provenance.I've never heard (or at least don't recall) the PP&M version,
but in studying the matter for the Ballad Index, we concluded
that it, "When I Was a Little Boy," and "Little Brown Dog" are
all one song (which PP&M adapted for their own purposes).There are a lot of these things built around variations on
a single gag, e.g. "The Wonderful Crocodile."Cazden/Huafrecht/Studer has a whole section on "Scrapes
and Escapades." Lots of good stuff there. Their version
of "Little Brown Dog" is "The Lofty Giant" (and I need
to combine those entries in the Ballad Index. Excuse me
for a moment.... :-)--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

> can members of the list
> provide references to other songs of impossibilities?
>
> EdHere's one straight from the oral tradition - I learnt it as a kid on the
streets of Nottingham in the early 1950s.Springtime in the rocket
The snow was raining fast
A barefooted man with clogs on
Came slowly whizzing past
Round a crooked corner
To see a poor donkey die
He took out his gun to stab him
And sent him bowleg in one eye.I have a tune for this, if anyone is interested. A friend of mine told me
around that time that I had got it wrong - it should be "Round a straight
crooked corner" - but let that pass.Incidentally, I have exactly the same version of  "One fine day in the
middle of the night" as Ed, except that I have *men* rather than boys.Cheers
Simon

Folks:My singular source in the UK provided this.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:51:47 EDT
From: [unmask]
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: A Lost Ballad?The one I recall from childhood in Essex was:One fine night in the middle of the day
The Thames caught fire and the fishes ran away
The blind man saw it, The deaf man heard it
The man with no legs, ran to fetch the fire brigade.The fire engine came, pulled by six (?) dead horsesAnd that's all I know except for a reference about "A man with no tongue told
me this story"It appears to be London, England in origin.http://www.messybeast.com
http://www.armadillo.net/llewtrah/
http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk/humor-site/humor-index.htm

Linn:Please do attempt to reconstruct this.EdOn Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Linn Schulz wrote:> The version I learned at recess in the schoolyards of
> Milwaukee suburbs in the 1950s went like this:
>
> Early in the morning, late one night
> Two dead boys began to fight.
> Back to back they faced each other
> Drew their swords and shot each other.
> Two deaf policemen heard the noise.
> Came and shot the two dead boys.
> If you don't believe this tale
> Ask the blind man who saw it all.
>
> I did some informal research about a year ago after I
> realized that there were at least 2 basic schoolyard
> chants using the concept of impossible opposites and
> found that the two were regional and usually not found
> in the same locations.
>
> Of course, right now I can't find (damn! didn't put it
> into the computer!) the version I didn't learn as a
> child and since the, uh, "informal research" was done
> late at night with pints of beer rather than pen and
> paper on the table,  I'm not sure I can reconstruct it
> all. However, in about a month I'll be sitting around
> a table singing and talking with the same group of
> people.
>
> Linn
>
> =====
> ******************************************************************
> Linn S. Schulz
> Writing - Editing - Print Design & Production
> phone/fax 603-942-7604
> Mailing Address: PO Box 4402, Portsmouth, NH 03802  USA
>
> ******************************************************************
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
>

Bob et all:You are correct in combining "Lofty Giant," "When I Was a Little Boy," and
"Little Brown Dog" under one title.  I have about 20 versions of this
ballad of impossibilities, which at the suggestion of the late Herbert
Halpert I have tried to combine into a (in)coherent narrative.  Halpert,
an authority not to be dismissed, said the ballad was a variant of the
folktale "Jack the Giant Killer."EdOn Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Robert B. Waltz wrote:> On 4/23/02, John Roberts wrote:
>
> >Oh, and didn't Peter, Paul & Mary do one? "Autumn to May," as I
> >recall, but I know nothing of its provenance.
>
> I've never heard (or at least don't recall) the PP&M version,
> but in studying the matter for the Ballad Index, we concluded
> that it, "When I Was a Little Boy," and "Little Brown Dog" are
> all one song (which PP&M adapted for their own purposes).
>
> There are a lot of these things built around variations on
> a single gag, e.g. "The Wonderful Crocodile."
>
> Cazden/Huafrecht/Studer has a whole section on "Scrapes
> and Escapades." Lots of good stuff there. Their version
> of "Little Brown Dog" is "The Lofty Giant" (and I need
> to combine those entries in the Ballad Index. Excuse me
> for a moment.... :-)
>
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."
>

Ed Cray wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> Many of us, I am sure, know the children's nonsense rhyme that begins:
>
> One fine day in the middle of the night
> Two dead boys got up to fight.
> Back to back they faced each other,
> Drew their swords and shot each other.
>
> It's fun, silly, delightful for kids who love subversive lore.  But, after
> looking at the British Columbia Folklore Society's site
> (http://www.folklore.bc.ca) and the page there devoted to this rhyme, I
> realize it is actually the unsung core of a "Ballad of Impossibilities."
>
> The BC site, written by Mike Ballantyne (who should be a member of
> ballad-l), inserts two "stanzas" into the poem that fill out the story:
>
> One was blind and the other couldn't see
> So they chose a dummy for a referee.
> A blind man went to see fair play
> A dumb man went to shout "hooray!"
>
> A paralysed donkey passing by
> Kicked the blind man in the eye
> Knocked him through a nine-inch wall
> Into a dry ditch and drowned them all.
>
> Then it concludes with a second stanza familiar to me since the 1940s:
>
> A deaf policeman heard the noise
> And came to arrest the two dead boys.
> If you don't believe this story's true,
> Ask the blind man.  He saw it too!
>
> A number of these songs/ballads of impossibilities were printed as
> broadsides in the 18th and 19th centuries.  At least one, "The Derby Ram"
> is/was well known in the 20th Century, and Peggy Seeger introduced another
> during the folk song revival, "Little Brown Dog," culled from her mother's
> anthology of _Animal Folk Songs for Children._
>
> Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine Day"
> and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of the list
> provide references to other songs of impossibilities?
>
> EdImpossibilities:
Comic songs like this have often been dismissed as juvenile
humor, but the number of them known over time shows that they
have been popular for a long time.  Anne Geddes Gilchrist gave
several traditional examples in an article in JFSS, V, #20, 1942,
supplemented it with a few more songs in JEFDSS, IV, 1942.Many of the texts noted below are given in the Scarce Songs
1 file on my website. Some are collected under the index title
'Nonsense'. The traditional songs can be located via Steve
Roud's folksong index. Here's where I left off on a tentative
outline about two years ago.
...................Marvels, Brags, Lies, etc.
[Note that often the singer states in the song that he is telling
the truth, a sure indication that he isn't.]A: Brags- Narrator's fantastic accomplishments-
Taliesin's song in the 'Tale of Taliesin', in Porter's
'Mabinogion'; Whetstone for Lyers; Jovial Broome man; I was
born about 10,000 years ago.B: Narrator is participant in fantastical doings, but not
primary instigator- "Tom Tell-truth" (Paul's steeple runs on
wheels, Apple-tree/ deadly codlings falling) and descendants: "A
Shoulder of Mutton Jumped over from France", Cecil Sharp, JFFS
20, p. 292, 1916; As I was going to Banbury: 'A Selection of
English Folk Songs, Sharp, Vaughn Williams and others, Novello.
Also in Cecil Sharp's Collection of English Folksongs.C: Farcical News. Narrator is primarily observer and
relator of fantastic events- "Martin said to his man/ Hurrah
Lie". "Teague's Ramble", (imitation, but no direct borrowing of
lines in "Paddy Backward"); "Nottamum Town"/ "Nottingham Fair"
with directly borrowed lines from "Teague's Ramble" but also
draws a little from "Tom Tell-Truth", above. "Nottamun Town"
in 'English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians', II, p.
270. J. Ritchie, 'Singing Family of the Cumberlands', p. 115,
1955; "Nottingham Fair" in V. Randolph's 'Ozark Folksongs', III,
p. 201. Bawdy parody in 'Roll Me In Your Arms', #83, 1992,
with another long version;  Medley in 'BASSUS', c 1530. "Newes! newes! newes! newes! Ye
never herd so many newes!" BL MS Cotton Vesp. A25 (This could
possibly be represented by a Stationers' Register entry of Sept.
18, 1579 which is "Jone came over London bridge and told me all
this geere". This date is same as the other latest pieces in the
MS). Gossip Joan (plus 2nd part and imitations, e.g., "How comes
it neighbor Dick"). 'Old Woman of Ratcliffe Highway' (prose
chapbook, entered in 1660, extract in Ashton's 'Chapbooks').[B and C sometimes overlap]D: UTOPIA, (or other fantastic places)- Land of Cockagne, c 1400
(ballad or poem?); Jerusalem my happy home (1587); An Invitation
to Lubberland, (c 1685); Big Rock Candy Mountain, Oleanna. See
especially Hal Ramel's book on comic Utopias in the US, 'Nowhere
in America', 1990.E: Wondrous or Magical Creatures- Wonderful Crocodile, The Darby
Ram, Red Herring, Sow took the measles, Cutty Wren?F: Will do such-and-such when impossibles happen, e.g., get
married- "Things Impossible", Gardner and Chickering, 'Ballads
and Songs of Southern Michigan', from broadside "The young-mans
Resolution to the Maids Request" (ZN269), and in 'Pills to Purge
Melancholy.'G: Impossible transformations to capture or escape- 2nd
Kalandar's tale, 14th of 1001 Nights, Ceridwen's capture of Gwion
Bach, broadside ballad- Two lovely lovers, c 1629, (forerunner
of) The Twa Magicians.Anyone want to add or revise categories?Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Automatic digest processor <[unmask]>, in the person of Ed
Cray, writes:> Can anyone provide, first, a tune for the children's rhyme "One Fine
> Day" and thus turn a poem into a song; and, second, can members of
> the list provide references to other songs of impossibilities?The New Song Fest (not to mention my mother) affords, to the tune of
"Silver Threads among the Gold":The Dying Fisherman's SongIt was midnight on the ocean, not a streetcar was in sight;
While the sun was shining brightly, for it had rained all the night.
'Twas a summer's day in winter, and the rain was snowing fast,
As the barefoot girl with shoes on stood there sitting in the grass.In was evening and the sunrise was just setting in the west,
And the fishes in the treetops were all cuddled in their nests.
As the wind was blowing bubbles, lightning shot from left to right;
Everything that you could see had been hidden out of sight.While the organ peeled potatoes, lard was rendered by the choir;
When the sexton rang the dishrag, someone set the church on fire.
"Holy Smokes!" the preacher shouted, as he madly tore his hair:
Now his head resembles heaven, for there is no parting there.
--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,  :||
||:  but first it shall piss you off beyond belief.               :||

Bruce:Once again there is deep and great scholarship in your work.  I knew maybe
half of the entries in your index.  (Which I had not consulted.)Ed

True StoryAs I went out a hunting all ona summers day
the trees they were in blossom
The flowers fresh and gay
I took my gun upon my back
And hunting I did go
I followed a herd of deer all day
And tracked them in the snow, snow,
Tracked them in the snowEnds up
Out of four and twenty deer
Ten thousand did I kill, Kill
Ten thousand did I killAs found in FlandersAs is a fine version of Rummy CrocodileMargaret MacArthur
Box 15 MacArthur Road
Marlboro VT 05344
802/254/2549
[unmask]
http://www.margaretmacarthur.com
from the heart of the Green Mountains

Hi!        Hope everyone had a good weekend. Since the items on the last
list have all closed, I guess it is time for a new one.        862264435 - Folk Songs of Old New England, collected and edited
by Eloise Hybbard Linscott, 1939 (ends Apr-29-02 14:46:06 PDT)
        1096120451 - "Rolling Along In Song" American Negro Music Book.
edited and arranged by Johnson, 1937 (ends Apr-26-02 19:36:18 PDT)
        1531915974 - Panama Rough Neck Ballads by Hall, 1912
        (ends Apr-26-02 9:44:18 PDT)
        861746895 - BOOK OF OLD BALLADS 1934 (ends Apr-28-02 14:06:17
PDT)
        1532566218 - "TYNESIDE SONGSTER" 1970 reprint of 1891 edition
(ends May-02-02 11:31:34 PDT)        This last item brings to mind that someone mentioned songsters
a few days ago. I thought that I would have a look at what was
available. There seems to be several items of varying price and quality.        860147406 - THE COMIQUE SONGSTER, 1869 (ends Apr-24-02 16:14:48
PDT)
        861043855 - Patterson's Ideal Songster around 1880 (ends
Apr-26-02 19:13:39 PDT)
        862570018 - Ethiopian Glee Book-1848 (ends Apr-28-02 9:39:31 PDT)
        1096100301 - G.A.R. SONGSTER., titled WAR SONGS, 1883 (ends
Apr-28-02 19:11:28 PDT)
        862312490 - The Bunker Hill Songster, 1860 (ends Apr-29-02 16:56:48
PDT)        If anyone wishes, I can include some of these in future lists.
They are easy to search for and get relatively few hits. I only have to
watch out for items which are really Songster phonograph needles. :-)        Anyone interested in LPs of field recordings might look at the
following. I am not sure if any of this material is now on CD.
        860521350 - Southern Mountain Folksong & Ballads (ends Apr-25-02
13:45:29 PDT)
        860607229 - The Kirkland Recordings (ends Apr-25-02 17:19:08 PDT)
        862000395 - Prison Worksongs : recorded at Angola (ends
May-01-02 20:49:52 PDT)                                See you next week!
                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

On 4/23/02, Dolores Nichols wrote:>Hi!
>
>        Hope everyone had a good weekend. Since the items on the last
>list have all closed, I guess it is time for a new one.
>
>        862264435 - Folk Songs of Old New England, collected and edited
>by Eloise Hybbard Linscott, 1939 (ends Apr-29-02 14:46:06 PDT)I'll show my cards again. :-) I'm interested in this one. Anyone
else want it?--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Be aware that this is readily available in Dover paperback for around
$8, though a first edition is always a nice thing to have.
John Roberts.>On 4/23/02, Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>        Hope everyone had a good weekend. Since the items on the last
>>list have all closed, I guess it is time for a new one.
>>
>>        862264435 - Folk Songs of Old New England, collected and edited
>>by Eloise Hybbard Linscott, 1939 (ends Apr-29-02 14:46:06 PDT)
>
>I'll show my cards again. :-) I'm interested in this one. Anyone
>else want it?
>
>--
>Bob Waltz
>[unmask]
>
>"The one thing we learn from history --
>   is that no one ever learns from history."

Dolore:I, for one, would appreciate your search of the songsters on E-bay.Ed

PP&M's "Autumn to May" was an unnecessary rewrite of Ruth Crawford
Seeger's "Little Brown Dog," about which I know only that she credits it
to Alabama. It's a version of "The Big Jeest" (Geste) that Flanders
includes in one of her books, probably "Vermont Folk SOngs and Ballads,"
but I don't have my copy handy to check on that.
        SandyJohn Roberts wrote:
>
> Oh, and didn't Peter, Paul & Mary do one? "Autumn to May," as I
> recall, but I know nothing of its provenance.
>
> JR

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Fineman <[unmask]><<The New Song Fest (not to mention my mother) affords, to the tune of
"Silver Threads among the Gold":The Dying Fisherman's SongIt was midnight on the ocean, not a streetcar was in sight;
While the sun was shining brightly, for it had rained all the night.
'Twas a summer's day in winter, and the rain was snowing fast,
As the barefoot girl with shoes on stood there sitting in the grass.In was evening and the sunrise was just setting in the west,
And the fishes in the treetops were all cuddled in their nests.
As the wind was blowing bubbles, lightning shot from left to right;
Everything that you could see had been hidden out of sight.While the organ peeled potatoes, lard was rendered by the choir;
When the sexton rang the dishrag, someone set the church on fire.
"Holy Smokes!" the preacher shouted, as he madly tore his hair:
Now his head resembles heaven, for there is no parting there.>>A version of the song recorded as "Ain't We Crazy" by Sam Hinton and
"Barefoot Boy With Boots On" by various folks. Different tune, though.Peace,
Paul--
---  Joe Fineman    [unmask]||:  Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free,  :||
||:  but first it shall piss you off beyond belief.               :||

I've got one, Bob, so good luck to you.
        Sandy"Robert B. Waltz" wrote:
>
> On 4/23/02, Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> >Hi!
> >
> >        Hope everyone had a good weekend. Since the items on the last
> >list have all closed, I guess it is time for a new one.
> >
> >        862264435 - Folk Songs of Old New England, collected and edited
> >by Eloise Hybbard Linscott, 1939 (ends Apr-29-02 14:46:06 PDT)
>
> I'll show my cards again. :-) I'm interested in this one. Anyone
> else want it?
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."

Dear all,With all this talk of going into amateur publications, swaps and
barters, and having no idea at all about how easy or difficult,
time-consuming or labour-saving the scanning process is, I wonder if
anyone can help me with a quick scan!I am in urgent need of the section in Peter Burke's Popular Culture in
Early Modern England with the subheading "The Professionals", around
between pp91-101. I wonder if anyone can help? Scan? Xerox?I would very much like a copy of same. I wonder if anyone has a
superfluous copy they'd like to disencumber themselves of, and is so,
what they'd like in exchange... cash, tickets to the local cinema,
supper fortwo at the Ritz, a pin-up photograph of Marta Sebestyen?All answers, serious and otherwise, gratefully accepted.Andy

'Ain't We Crazy' was recorded in the '30's by Mac 'Haywire Mac' McClintock.

On 4/24/02, John Roberts wrote:>Be aware that this is readily available in Dover paperback for around
>$8, though a first edition is always a nice thing to have.
>John Roberts.Interesting. Thanks. If nothing else, it will save me from bidding
too much. :-)Looks like this is a hardcover (at least based on first glance),
so I'll probably try for it if the price doesn't go too high.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Andy,I have to do some scanning this morning; I can add this to the list.  A couple of questions.   First, scans as jpegs ok?  Second, my copy has about a dozen pages of images between p. 98 and 99.  Do you want those as well?  If I don't hear back from
you, I will assume yes for the first question, no for the second.Cheers
Jamie

So would I, and will probably bid on the songsters.
Norm>
> I, for one, would appreciate your search of the songsters on E-bay.
>
> Ed

And there are a couple of ex-library copies available on abe for $12
plus shipping.  G+ and up seems to go for $30.-Don Duncan

Who was also the popularizer (and author?) of "Big Rock Candy Mountain",
with his 1928 recording.-Don Duncan[unmask] wrote:
>
> 'Ain't We Crazy' was recorded in the '30's by Mac 'Haywire Mac' McClintock.

Folks:I am not sure how many on these lists are aware of the great resource in
folk medicine available at www.folkmed.ucla.eduThis site was compiled by Frances Cattermole-Tally and Michael Jones of
UCLA from the unpublished archives of Wayland D. Hand, formally professor
of German at UCLA, in fact, the great scholar of folk bleief/medicine and
(ahem) superstition, a word Wayland never used.Prior to his death, Hand amassed over one million 4x6 cards listing
American, indeed, world popular beliefs.  He was at work on, or near
signing a contract with UC Press to print what would have been his life's
accomplishment, a massive dictionary of American popular belief, with
extensive notes, analysis, comparison, etc.The vast majority of material in the archive is yet to be published in any
form.  Still, this folk medicine section is excellent, based on my
research into "plugging," "curandero," childbirth, and that most common of
ailemnts, "warts."Frances and I are looking into the possibility of getting the other
million cards published.In the meantime, this site is a treasure trove.Ed

Donald:Not the author.  The hobo ballad was traditional even before Mac learned
it in the 1920s (?).EdOn Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Donald A. Duncan wrote:> Who was also the popularizer (and author?) of "Big Rock Candy Mountain",
> with his 1928 recording.
>
> -Don Duncan
>
> [unmask] wrote:
> >
> > 'Ain't We Crazy' was recorded in the '30's by Mac 'Haywire Mac' McClintock.
>

Hi!        I just found a copy of Hugill's Shanties from the Seven Seas,
1961 on Ebay. Auction #1532417401. It closes Apr-26-02 17:55:04 PDT.                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Thanks, Dolores. I've just put in a bid. Jon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolores Nichols" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: Addition to Ebay List> Hi!
>
>         I just found a copy of Hugill's Shanties from the Seven Seas,
> 1961 on Ebay. Auction #1532417401. It closes Apr-26-02 17:55:04 PDT.
>
>                                 Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Stephen and Ballad-listers:For those of you who do not read the NY Times, there is a marvelous review
of the long forgotten play by Zora Neale Hurston, _Polk County,_ in
today's paper (pages B1,3 of the national edition).In commenting about the on-stage musicians, reviewer Bruce Weber noted,
"Their sound is not only authentic and joyous -- the music director
Stephen Wade has collected a variety of songs into a marvelously evocative
period score -- but to ears accustoed to blaring Broadway, deliciously
restrained and not overblown."Stephen, when you have time, would you give us a list of the numbers and
the sources for the music?  It is nice to know that the music lives on.Congratulations.Ed

Do you have confirmation of that?  I couldn't find any references....-Don DuncanEd Cray wrote:
>
> Donald:
>
> Not the author.  The hobo ballad was traditional even before Mac learned
> it in the 1920s (?).
>
> Ed
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Donald A. Duncan wrote:
>
> > Who was also the popularizer (and author?) of "Big Rock Candy Mountain",
> > with his 1928 recording.
> >
> > -Don Duncan
> >
> > [unmask] wrote:
> > >
> > > 'Ain't We Crazy' was recorded in the '30's by Mac 'Haywire Mac' McClintock.
> >

B.H. Bronson was born on 22 June 1902.Not quite sure how one celebrates a Bronson Day: a pagan solstice
ceremony where we sing all the variants of one of his longer chapters
(which one has the most tunes?) round a blazing Mode Star?=================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> ===================

Folks:Does anyone have a viable address for Robert Shelton, ex-NY Times popular
music critic, early booster of Dylan, etc.?  Ted Anthony, who is writing a
book about the song "House of the Rising Sun," has some questions about
sources for liner notes Shelton wrote some time ago.Anthony can be reached directly at[unmask]Ed

Robert Shelton died in 1995. You might try to
contact the Robert Shelton Archive at:Institute of Popular Music
University of Liverpool
L69, 3BX
http://www.liv.ac.uk/ipm/shelton2.htm--- Ed Cray <[unmask]> wrote:
> Folks:
>
> Does anyone have a viable address for Robert
> Shelton, ex-NY Times popular
> music critic, early booster of Dylan, etc.?
> Ted Anthony, who is writing a
> book about the song "House of the Rising Sun,"
> has some questions about
> sources for liner notes Shelton wrote some time
> ago.
>
> Anthony can be reached directly at
>
> [unmask]
>
> Ed__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/

A few years ago, I heard that he was living in England. Maybe that'll help
narrow the search.Happy hunting / MB

On Fri, Apr 26, 2002 at 11:42:56AM +0100, Jack Campin wrote:
> B.H. Bronson was born on 22 June 1902.
>
> Not quite sure how one celebrates a Bronson Day: a pagan solstice
> ceremony where we sing all the variants of one of his longer chapters
> (which one has the most tunes?) round a blazing Mode Star?        Charming notion, if only for the picture it brings.
        I didn't know anyone else cared. -- Aloha, Lani<||> Lani Herrmann * [unmask]
<||> 5621 Sierra Ave. * Richmond, CA 94805 * (510) 237-7360

Folks:The best way to celebrate the Bronson Centennial is to raise a glass of
sherry in his memory.  Good sherry.  He and his English Department
colleague and folklorist Grant Loomis were partial to good sherry.Ed

When can we start?
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Cray" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: centenary coming up in a few weeks> Folks:
>
> The best way to celebrate the Bronson Centennial is to raise a glass of
> sherry in his memory.  Good sherry.  He and his English Department
> colleague and folklorist Grant Loomis were partial to good sherry.
>
> Ed

Autumn:I have posted to a list of ballad scholars/afficionados/private scholars
(as was Ed) notice of the possibility that Ed's books might be for sale.A number, perhaps ten, suggested they might be interested, as I am, in
individual volumes.  I believe all of them would be willing to pay the
fair market value -- a value based upon the estimates both Norm
Cohen and I placed on individual volumes.Some of those who subscribe to ballad-l suggested we post the list, and
then hold a silent auction.  This MIGHT yield better prices than merely
following the Cohen-Cray estimate of value.Either of these two strategies would yield higher prices than the
estimated 20 percent of worth (ultimate sales value) that selling the
entire collection to a dealer might produce.The drawbacks/pitfalls are these:1) The direct sale and the auction require that you or your mother box the
books and take them to a post office.  This MAY be more than you bargained
for, especially when someone orders one $10.00 book.  (You can, of course,
charge for packaging and postage -- fees to be arranged.)2) If you allow this "cherry-picking," you run the risk of having fewer or
no choice volumes to offer to dealers, thus diminishing the value of the
collection in toto.  On the other hand, you have the sure knowledge that
folks, like your stepfather, who love folk song, have acquired a bit of
his library and his passion.  (I have books, often lesser works, fromYou and your mother must tell me what you want to do.  One member of the
list has transformed Ed's (yours?) shelf list into HTML/ASCII, and we can
post the list to the maximum number of buyers.Finally, I can safely say that every single person who responded was most
concerned to maximize the net proceeds to you.Best,Ed Cray (for the subscribers of ballad-l)P.S.  As I said before, I do have names and addresses of reputable
booksellers who would be delighted to purchase the library in toto.

I like the idea of a private silent auction, but is there really any
advantage over ebay?  There are still all the inconveniences of dealing with
many small packages.
Norm
.>
> I have posted to a list of ballad scholars/afficionados/private scholars
> (as was Ed) notice of the possibility that Ed's books might be for sale.
>
> A number, perhaps ten, suggested they might be interested, as I am, in
> individual volumes.  I believe all of them would be willing to pay the
> fair market value -- a value based upon the estimates both Norm
> Cohen and I placed on individual volumes.
>
> Some of those who subscribe to ballad-l suggested we post the list, and
> then hold a silent auction.  This MIGHT yield better prices than merely
> following the Cohen-Cray estimate of value.
>
> Either of these two strategies would yield higher prices than the
> estimated 20 percent of worth (ultimate sales value) that selling the
> entire collection to a dealer might produce.
>
> The drawbacks/pitfalls are these:
>
> 1) The direct sale and the auction require that you or your mother box the
> books and take them to a post office.  This MAY be more than you bargained
> for, especially when someone orders one $10.00 book.  (You can, of course,
> charge for packaging and postage -- fees to be arranged.)
>
> 2) If you allow this "cherry-picking," you run the risk of having fewer or
> no choice volumes to offer to dealers, thus diminishing the value of the
> collection in toto.  On the other hand, you have the sure knowledge that
> folks, like your stepfather, who love folk song, have acquired a bit of
> his library and his passion.  (I have books, often lesser works, from
>
> You and your mother must tell me what you want to do.  One member of the
> list has transformed Ed's (yours?) shelf list into HTML/ASCII, and we can
> post the list to the maximum number of buyers.
>
> Finally, I can safely say that every single person who responded was most
> concerned to maximize the net proceeds to you.
>
> Best,
>
> Ed Cray (for the subscribers of ballad-l)
>
> P.S.  As I said before, I do have names and addresses of reputable
> booksellers who would be delighted to purchase the library in toto.

Hi folks:I'm looking for some background on "Travelin' Man", perhaps best known in
its performance by medicine show artist Pink Anderson. It was also collected
in Texas in 1940, performed by Phineas Rockmore; that recording is on "Black
Texicans", part of the Lomax reissue series.Anyone out there know anything more about the song? Like earlier
collections, publications or recordings, possible author, etc.? Thanks in
advance!Peace,
Paul

On 4/27/02, Norm Cohen wrote:>I like the idea of a private silent auction, but is there really any
>advantage over ebay?  There are still all the inconveniences of dealing with
>many small packages.
>NormSeveral advantages:* No cut to eBay.* eBay's system awards the book to the person who bids 50 cents more
than the second-highest bidder. In a silent auction, you get whatever
the most "spendthrift" person is willing to pay.* You don't have to file eBay descriptions of every item; you just
make one big file.* You don't have to supply eBay feedback when you're done.Plus you have Ballad-L as a way of tracing the bidders should
need arise.For that matter, it will probably be a smaller number of packages,
because the winning bidders will be a smaller set.You could even put in a restriction that any bidder must spend
at least X dollars TOTAL, so you don't have to send any $10
packages. Can't do that with eBay; you can set a minimum price
on an item, but not on a particular bidder.The other side of it, of course, is that you have to track
the bids as they come in; eBay does that automatically. But
you only get one bid per person per item; it probably won't
be impossibly difficult.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

Roy Bookbinder spent a good deal of time with Pink Anderson, and 'Travelin'
Man' was his theme song, as well as the name of his first Album.  (Sorry,
don't remember the label off-hand, and all my records are packed for the
move.)

I recall my Pink Anderson recordings are on Prestige.Speaking about Roy Bookbinder; he and I sat next to each other in a music
class at Hunter College... early '70s.  About 5 years later, 1977 as I
recall, we were both on the program at the Philadelphia Folk Festival.All the best,
Dan Milner----- Original Message -----
From: <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Travelin' Man> Roy Bookbinder spent a good deal of time with Pink Anderson, and
'Travelin'
> Man' was his theme song, as well as the name of his first Album.  (Sorry,
> don't remember the label off-hand, and all my records are packed for the
> move.)

Dear All,I have very much enjoyed the discussion of these songs, which in my childhood
in Tulsa, Oklahoma, were known as "crazy" songs.  John Garst mentioned
"Nottamun Town"  as another example, and it might be germane to mention that
when Jean Ritchie, who was researching the British origins of some of her
Kentucky Mountain songs, found it sung as part of a Mummers' ceremony.  Her
informant said it was a "mystery song,"  and when Jean asked him what it
meant, he said "Now Lass, if you could understand it, there wouldn't b any
mystery to it, would there?"The late Dave van Ronk used to sing "Little Brown Dog"  with some of this
feeling of mystery.When I was a student at Woodrow Wilson Junior High School in Tulsa, around
1929, the Double Quartet of the Boys' Glee Club  sang several songs -- some
of which I taught them --in this category.  One was "Ain't We Crazy,"  which
Paul Stambler mentioned as part of this on-line discussion, and which I had
learned from a phonograph record belonging to my Uncle Bill Duffie (known to
us as "Bubba"), who lived in Ada, Oklahoma;  I think it had been recorded by
Haywire Mack MacClintock, but am not certain about this...  Another number
performed by the Double Quartet was "The Horses Run Around"  which no-one
seems to have mentioned yet.  It has these lines:The horses run around; their feet are on the ground.
   Oh who will wind the clock while I'm away?
Go get the axe;  there's a hair on baby's chin.
   Oh, a boy's best friend is his mother, his mother!A-looking out a window, a second storey window,
   I slipped and sprained my eyebrow on the pavement.
Go get the Listerine: Sister wants a beau!
   Oh we hope that Grandma's teeth will soon fit Jimmy.A-looking through a knothole in Papa's wooden leg
   Why did they build the shore so near the ocean?
A snake's belt always slips just because he has no hips,
   And his waistline is just below his necktie.You boys that go to school should never play the fool;
   Your teacher knows her onions -- she's a farmer!
We feed our baby garlic so we can find him in the dark.
   Oh, we hope that Grandma's teeth will soon fit Jimmy.Sam
La Jolla, CA

These arguments seem to me to make a compelling advantage for a closed
silent auction, rather than ebay.  If we did that, tho, I'd suggest opening
it also to tlist members.  Many of them are interested in folk and/or
country music books that balladeers might not be so keen on.  And anyway, it
would generate more revenue.
Norm> Several advantages:
>
> * No cut to eBay.
>
> * eBay's system awards the book to the person who bids 50 cents more
> than the second-highest bidder. In a silent auction, you get whatever
> the most "spendthrift" person is willing to pay.
>
> * You don't have to file eBay descriptions of every item; you just
> make one big file.
>
> * You don't have to supply eBay feedback when you're done.
>
> Plus you have Ballad-L as a way of tracing the bidders should
> need arise.
>
> For that matter, it will probably be a smaller number of packages,
> because the winning bidders will be a smaller set.
>
> You could even put in a restriction that any bidder must spend
> at least X dollars TOTAL, so you don't have to send any $10
> packages. Can't do that with eBay; you can set a minimum price
> on an item, but not on a particular bidder.
>
> The other side of it, of course, is that you have to track
> the bids as they come in; eBay does that automatically. But
> you only get one bid per person per item; it probably won't
> be impossibly difficult.
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."

Jack Campin wrote:
>
> B.H. Bronson was born on 22 June 1902.
>
> Not quite sure how one celebrates a Bronson Day: a pagan solstice
> ceremony where we sing all the variants of one of his longer chapters
> (which one has the most tunes?) round a blazing Mode Star?Ed Cray wrote:
>
> The best way to celebrate the Bronson Centennial is to raise a glass of
> sherry in his memory.  Good sherry.  He and his English Department
> colleague and folklorist Grant Loomis were partial to good sherry.Well, I guess I'll be celebrating it by dancing around a maypole with
John Roberts and the rest of the cast. [Our Spring Revels here in Boston
had to be moved this year; the theater we normally use is undergoing
renovation, so we're at Sanders Theater at Harvard, after the students
leave.  John Roberts and Tony Barrand are narrators and featured
singers; we start and end in Padstow, and include a visit to Africa in a
fanciful investigation of the origins of the 'Obby 'Oss.]Sherry isn't usually on our menu, but I suspect we could hoist a beer or
two to him after the evening show....-Don Duncan

        Dixon, Godrich and Rye [4th Ed. 1997] list the following under the
title "Traveling Man [The]":Virgil Childers [Charlotte, N.C. 25 Jan. 1938] Bluebird B7487 [also HK HK
4006, Roots (Austria) RL 326] Bastian ["Red River Blues" 1986 p.202n37] in
commenting on this recording notes "[t]he lyrics to 'Traveling Coon' had
been collected in Durham in 1919" and cites "The Frank C. Brown Collection
of N.C. Folklore v.5 p. 283." Oliver [see below] p. 93 comments further
"Odum and Johnson collected three versions - one from a quartet which came
to Dayton, TN; another by Kid Ellis, of Spartanburg, S.C., himself a
professed traveling man; a third from a N.C. youth who traveled through
several states."Jim Jackson [Memphis, TN 4 Sept. 1928] Victor V38617 is on Jim Jackson Vol
2 1928 - 1930 DOCD-5115 [also Earl BD-613, Matchbox MSEX 2003/2004,
Collector's Classics CC 3]Coley Jones [Dallas, TX 4 Dec. 1927] Columbia 14228-D is on Texas Blues
1927 - 1935 DOCD-5161; The Great Race Record Labels Volume 2: Columbia
Catfish  162 [also Matchbox MSE 208] Paul Garon in his notes to the
Document set comments "Traveling Man - also known as The Traveling Coon,
was widely recorded - East Coast bluesman Luke Jordan recorded it at the
same time as Jones - and has affinities with the lore and tales of Shine
and the Titanic and other bad man or hero songs of black folklore."Finious (Flat Foot) Rockmore [Lufkin, TX 7 Oct. 1940] L of CWill Starks [Clarksdale, MS 9 Aug. 1942] L of CWashboard Sam [Chicago, IL 31 Jan. 1941] Bluebird B8761 is on Washboard Sam
Vol 5 1940 - 1941 DOCD-5175 [also on Document DLP 507]under the title "Traveling Man Blues":Tony Hollins [Chicago, IL 3 June 1941] OKeh 06523 is on Chicago Blues Vol 1
1939 - 1951 DOCD-5270 [also on HK HK 4007]and as "Traveling Coon"Luke Jordan [Charlotte, N. C. 16 AUG. 1927] Victor 20957 is on The Songster
Tradition 1927 - 1935 Document DOCD-5045        Barlow in "Looking Up At Down" [1989] pp. 82-3 comments:
"It was the minstrel songs, however, that were the mainstays of the road
shows. One of the best-known black minstrel songs was 'Travelin' Man,' a
popular standard identified with Jim Jackson, the venerable medicine show
performer from Hernando, Mississippi, who first recorded it in Memphis in
the 1920s. His version tells the story of a foot-loose 'travelin' man' who
made his living stealing white folks chickens, while traveling around from
place to place. His speed afoot was a legendary as his ability to outwit
his white adversaries.""'Travelin' Man' was a favorite of Piedmont bluesmen. Two of them, Luke
Jordan and Virgil Childers, made separate commercial recordings of it in
the late 1920s. In addition, it was a long-time favorite of Pink Anderson,
who worked the medicine show circuit in the Southeast from 1914 into the
1950s."        Oliver in "Songsters & Saints" [1984] has a longer discussion  on
Traveling Man / Traveling Coon on pages 93-6. In that he references Levine,
"Black Culture and Black Consciousness" p. 405 and White, "American Negro
Folk-Songs p. 201. Citing White, he suggests "that the song may relate to
'The Derby Ram' and it's refrain."        The song was also recorded by several white country singers
including Henry Whitter [New York, N.Y. 24 Nov. 1924, Okeh 40237] and Doc
Walsh [17 April 1926, Columbia 15105D]. I'm unaware that either of these
has been reissued and the unfortunate state of country discography limits
the amount of information available.At 3:55 PM -0500 4/27/02, Paul Stamler wrote:
>Hi folks:
>
>I'm looking for some background on "Travelin' Man", perhaps best known in
>its performance by medicine show artist Pink Anderson. It was also collected
>in Texas in 1940, performed by Phineas Rockmore; that recording is on "Black
>Texicans", part of the Lomax reissue series.
>
>Anyone out there know anything more about the song? Like earlier
>collections, publications or recordings, possible author, etc.? Thanks in
>advance!
>
>Peace,
>Paul

Hi folks:Look, sending out packages is no big deal, at least if they're going
domestically. Typically book dealers wrap the book in several layers of
bubble-wrap, pop that into a soft mailing envelope, perhaps with two pieces
of corrugated cardboard (at right angles). Take 'em to the post office or
UPS and you're done. Have a standard postage-and-packing cost for domestic
shipping (weigh a slightly-over-average-size book plus packing). Buy the
bubble-wrap and envelopes at Office Depot or, if the number is large enough,
a real office-supply wholesaler.Exports are a little messier but not that much. You may need to compute
actual mailing costs for each of those packages.Micro-record companies do this all the time. It's nothing to be afraid of.Peace,
Paul

You need to get in touch with Paul Geremia who had the song
directly frrom Pink Anderson.  Paul introduced into the Boston folk
scene in 1966 and still sings it.I'll try to find out if Paul is on line as well as getting you his mailoing
address if needed..Happy May Day  --  Tom> From: Paul Stamler <[unmask]>
> Date: 2002/04/27 Sat PM 03:55:45 CDT
> To: [unmask]
> Subject: Travelin' Man
>
> Hi folks:
>
> I'm looking for some background on "Travelin' Man", perhaps
best known in
> its performance by medicine show artist Pink Anderson. It was
also collected
> in Texas in 1940, performed by Phineas Rockmore; that
recording is on "Black
> Texicans", part of the Lomax reissue series.
>
> Anyone out there know anything more about the song? Like
earlier
> collections, publications or recordings, possible author, etc.?
Thanks in
> advance!
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>

Another kind of song insanity comes from metathesis.  I learned this song
from Mac Bennett who said it came from the Jenny Jump Mountains in southern
(?) New Jersey.  I think he learned it as a boy scout.
   Has anyone else ever come accross this song or any variants? or any other
songs which use this word switching as a form of humor?It's a long time to come, I remember it well
Along side a poor house a maiden did dwell.
She lived with her parents, her life was serene
Her age it was red and her hair was nineteen.This maid had a true love who nearby did dwell.
A cross-legged young ruffian and bow-eyed as well
One day he said "You, the apple of my eye you are."
"Will you come with me by the light of yon star?""Oh no," said the maiden "Be cautious and wise"
"Or my old man will scratch out your nails with his eyes"
He then cut the throat of the maiden so fair,
And he dragged her around by the head of her hair.The old man then appeared then it appeared it appears.
And he gazed at the sad scene with eyes in his tears.
He said to the ruffian, "Now you'd better bolt"
And he pulled a horse pistol he'd raised from a colt.The old man said, "You're time's come to die now it's true."
Said the ruffian, "No I'll fly," and he flew up the flue.

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