Donald:In matters such as this, I call upon "Folk Music Central": Irwin Silber
and Ronald Cohen.  Their email addresses are in the header.EdOn Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Donald A. Duncan wrote:> A friend of a friend is investigating women who were influential during
> the transition of traditional music to a full-blown folk music industry.
>  She was wondering if Cynthia Gooding is still alive, and if anyone knew
> how to get in touch with her.
>
> -Don Duncan
>

Ed Cray wrote:
>
> Donald:
>
> In matters such as this, I call upon "Folk Music Central": Irwin Silber
> and Ronald Cohen.  Their email addresses are in the header.
>
> Ed
>
> On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Donald A. Duncan wrote:
>
> > A friend of a friend is investigating women who were influential during
> > the transition of traditional music to a full-blown folk music industry.
> >  She was wondering if Cynthia Gooding is still alive, and if anyone knew
> > how to get in touch with her.
> >
> > -Don Duncan
> >For others whose email readers also don't give the full header,
here are those email addresses. [I had to look at Ed's file with a
word processor to find these.][XXX--] Comments: cc: Ronald Cohen <[unmask]>, [unmask]Ed, is that where you hid Hugh Anderson's address about a week ago?
I couldn't find it, so just posted info on the tune "Bobbing Around" to
the list (Ballad-L).Bruce OlsonPS: Is my email reader set up wrong somehow?Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Bruce (and Others):I wouldn't begin to attempt to tell you how to set up your word processor
or email system.  In mine (Pine, a UNIX system), I merely typein "reply"
or the code for it, and the program copies the address, voila!You ask about Hugh Anderson's address.  Hugh and Dawn, who is every inch
is co-author, co-researcher, co-llaborator (I couldn't resist the play on
words), are at [unmask]I do not think they subscribe to ballad-l.  Twist their arm to get them to
subscribe.  They represent Australian folk music to a fare-thee-well.Ed

On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:30:21PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:        [ ... ]> For others whose email readers also don't give the full header,
> here are those email addresses. [I had to look at Ed's file with a
> word processor to find these.]
>
> [XXX--] Comments: cc: Ronald Cohen <[unmask]>, [unmask]        [ ... ]> PS: Is my email reader set up wrong somehow?        I think that it is bad practice to expect the headers to be
easily available to everybody.  Most unix mail clients make it easy to
get to the headers -- though sometimes you have to ask it to show the
full headers.  But other programs may not -- and once you're into the
process of replying, if you haven't set yours up as I have, to put *all*
the headers quoted into the reply, and allow *me* to decide which to
delete and when -- it can be very difficult to reference the headers.        Far better to duplicate such information as you are trying to
share into the body of the message where it is easy to find.        And from one of your headers:> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U)It would seem that you are using a web browser as a mail client.  Not
the best of tools for the task, though safer than Outlook Express -- at
least assuming that you have JavaScript and Java disabled in the browser
before you let it near e-mail.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ed Cray wrote:
>
> Bruce (and Others):
>
> I wouldn't begin to attempt to tell you how to set up your word processor
> or email system.  In mine (Pine, a UNIX system), I merely typein "reply"
> or the code for it, and the program copies the address, voila!
>
> You ask about Hugh Anderson's address.  Hugh and Dawn, who is every inch
> is co-author, co-researcher, co-llaborator (I couldn't resist the play on
> words), are at [unmask]
>
> I do not think they subscribe to ballad-l.  Twist their arm to get them to
> subscribe.  They represent Australian folk music to a fare-thee-well.
>
> EdIn Ed Cray's relayed request from Hugh Anderson for tune info I found
the following address with a word processor:
[zzz] Comments: cc: Hugh Anderson <[unmask]>
I've now relayed my info on the tune "Bobbing Around" to Hugh
Anderson, with appologies if it's a duplicate.I've found that my email reader (Netscape 3.01, re Don Nichols
message) displays 'CC:xxxxxxx...' in an email header, but not if that
'Comments' preceedes it. Where does that 'Comments' come from?Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Ed Cray wrote:
> >
> > Bruce (and Others):
> >.............> I've found that my email reader (Netscape 3.01, re Don Nichols
> message) displays 'CC:xxxxxxx...' in an email header, but not if
> that
> 'Comments' preceedes it. Where does that 'Comments' come from?
>
> Bruce Olson
>A single character preceeding cc:xxxx on the same line is enough to
inhibit display of the whole line by my email reader (Netscape 3.01).
cc: must be at the start of the line in order for the line to be
displayed.Bruce Olson--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Yes, my employer kindly strips headers off email -- I guess they
think they are saving storage. At home with Eudora on the Mac I can
see them by clicking on the appropriately named "BlanBlahBlah"
button. But they are pretty close to meaningless to me.>On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 11:30:21PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
>         [ ... ]
>
>>  For others whose email readers also don't give the full header,
>>  here are those email addresses. [I had to look at Ed's file with a
>>  word processor to find these.]
>>
>>  [XXX--] Comments: cc: Ronald Cohen <[unmask]>, [unmask]
>
>         [ ... ]
>
>>  PS: Is my email reader set up wrong somehow?
>
>         I think that it is bad practice to expect the headers to be
>easily available to everybody.  Most unix mail clients make it easy to
>get to the headers -- though sometimes you have to ask it to show the
>full headers.  But other programs may not -- and once you're into the
>process of replying, if you haven't set yours up as I have, to put *all*
>the headers quoted into the reply, and allow *me* to decide which to
>delete and when -- it can be very difficult to reference the headers.
>
>         Far better to duplicate such information as you are trying to
>share into the body of the message where it is easy to find.
>
>         And from one of your headers:
>
>>  X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; U)
>
>It would seem that you are using a web browser as a mail client.  Not
>the best of tools for the task, though safer than Outlook Express -- at
>least assuming that you have JavaScript and Java disabled in the browser
>before you let it near e-mail.
>
>         Enjoy,
>                 DoN.
>
>--
>  Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
>         (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
>            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero -----
Alan Ackerman, [unmask]

On Sun, Feb 24, 2002 at 02:54:00PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:> From: Bruce Olson <[unmask]>
> Subject:      Re: What ever happened to Cynthia Gooding?
> Comments: To: Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]>
> To: [unmask]        [ ... ]> I've found that my email reader (Netscape 3.01, re Don Nichols
> message) displays 'CC:xxxxxxx...' in an email header, but not if that
> 'Comments' preceedes it. Where does that 'Comments' come from?        It would appear that the mailing list server adds it.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi!        Here I am again! I decided to post a bit earlier than usual
because several interesting items have appeared.        1517194763 - ULSTER SONGS AND BALLADS by Padric Gregory 1920
        1516806471 - A SINGER AND HER SONGS - ALMEDA RIDDLE'S BOOK OF
BALLADS, Abrahams, Roger D. (Editor). 1970
        1518647392 - The Ballad Book Edited by MacEdward Leach 1955
        1518319561 - complete set of the Dover edition of Child
        The following auctions are individual volumes from Child sets
(mostly the Dover edition)
        1518325017 - Volume 1
        1518357147 - Volume 2
        1518327236 - volume 3
        1518328790 - volume 5
        There are two Lomax related items -
        1518866685 - Adventures of a Ballad Hunter by John Lomax 1947
        1077945024 - American Folk Songs and Folk Lore by Alan Lomax and
Sidney Robertson Cowell 1942        Finally there is this set of books -
        1518499181 - North Carolina Folklore 5 of 7 volumes edited by
Newman Ivey White                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Hi folks:In case you hadn't heard...this set is NOT a facsimile, but completely
reset, with corrections and updates added. The price, especially in cloth,
is a steal.Peace,
Paul----- Original Message -----
From: <[unmask]>
To: <undisclosed-recipients:;>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:55 PM
Subject: The English and Scottish Popular BalladsVolume 1 of Francis James Child's The English and Scottish Popular ballads
is now available for purchase from our web store at
http://www.loomishousepress.com/.  It should also be surfacing soon in the
major online booksellers.
The price is $24.95 for the paperbound edition, and $34.95 for the
library-quality clothbound edition.
We have also added a PDF file of the first chapter to our site, for those of
you who like to see what you're getting.
Many of you mentioned learning about this project on email discussion lists
and web boards.  We would be grateful if you would pass this information
along to others who might be interested.
Thank you for your interest and support.
Loomis House Press
-------
Please accept our apology if you received more than one copy of this
message; this is the last copy that will be sent.
If you do not wish to be notified when Volume 2 becomes available, please
reply to this message with "REMOVE" in the subject line.

There was some correspondence about the demise of Llanerch Press a few months
ago. Well the good news is they've sprung to life again under new management.
They specialise in cheap and cheerful reprints of out-of-print stuff,
including several important British trad. song titles.
Their website is www.llanerch-publishers.co.uk
Steve Roud--
Message sent with Supanet E-mail

Hurray for the good guys!

Speculation.Thomas Gordon, the father of Mrs. Anna Brown of Falkland, wrote to
Alexander Fraser Tytler on Jan. 19, 1793, with excerpts as
follows:I mentioned them [Mrs. Brown's ballads] to your father, at whose
request my Grandson Mr [Robert] Scott [aged 14 and nephew of Anna Brown]
wrote down [in 1783] a parcel of them as his aunt [Mrs. Brown] sang them
[now Edinburgh Univ. Lib. MS Laing III 473]...... I have, but cannot lay
hands on it, the paper-book in which many more were taken down than were
sent;.......Is there a connection between the missing collection above and the
collection of another (or just possibly the same) Robert Scott,
minister of Glenbuchat? Comparison of the handwriting in the two MSS
should quickly establish a yes or no answer.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Dear All,The Collier Laddie/Miner lad contains the verseI’ll build my love a castle,
A castle of high renown.
Neither lords, dukes nor princes
Shall ever pull it down.
For the king loves the queen,
The emperor does the same,
And I love my miner lad,
And who can me blame?I am intersted in earlier versions of the castle-building-for-one's love
motif, either in the English or in other traditions. Any takers?Andy

On 3/1/02, Andy Rouse wrote:>Dear All,
>
>The Collier Laddie/Miner lad contains the verse
>
>I’ll build my love a castle,
>A castle of high renown.
>Neither lords, dukes nor princes
>Shall ever pull it down.
>For the king loves the queen,
>The emperor does the same,
>And I love my miner lad,
>And who can me blame?
>
>I am intersted in earlier versions of the castle-building-for-one's love
>motif, either in the English or in other traditions. Any takers?I'll build me a castle
On yon mountain so high
So my true love can see me
As she rides by.Floats through several Appalachian songs.--
Bob Waltz
[unmask]"The one thing we learn from history --
   is that no one ever learns from history."

A far less ambitious building project is, of course,
"Will you Go Lassie Go":"I will build my love a bower".Same thought. Much less ambitious.Lew>>> [unmask] 03/01/02 04:06AM >>>
Dear All,The Collier Laddie/Miner lad contains the verseI'll build my love a castle,
A castle of high renown.
Neither lords, dukes nor princes
Shall ever pull it down.
For the king loves the queen,
The emperor does the same,
And I love my miner lad,
And who can me blame?I am intersted in earlier versions of the castle-building-for-one's love
motif, either in the English or in other traditions. Any takers?Andy

A sewarch of the Digital Tradition doesn't come up with any other
castle-building projects. Most popular DIY projects seem to be bonnie ships
and bowers, although there are three mansions to be built.dick greenhausAndy Rouse wrote:> Dear All,
>
> The Collier Laddie/Miner lad contains the verse
>
> I’ll build my love a castle,
> A castle of high renown.
> Neither lords, dukes nor princes
> Shall ever pull it down.
> For the king loves the queen,
> The emperor does the same,
> And I love my miner lad,
> And who can me blame?
>
> I am intersted in earlier versions of the castle-building-for-one's love
> motif, either in the English or in other traditions. Any takers?
>
> Andy

Birmingham Jail  A.K.A. Down in the Valley  has the verse:"Build me a castle   forty feet high,
So I can see her,   as she rides by."

Robert B. Waltz wrote:
>
> On 3/1/02, Andy Rouse wrote:
>
> >Dear All,
> >
> >The Collier Laddie/Miner lad contains the verse
> >
> >I’ll build my love a castle,
> >A castle of high renown.
> >Neither lords, dukes nor princes
> >Shall ever pull it down.
> >For the king loves the queen,
> >The emperor does the same,
> >And I love my miner lad,
> >And who can me blame?
> >
> >I am intersted in earlier versions of the castle-building-for-one's love
> >motif, either in the English or in other traditions. Any takers?
>
> I'll build me a castle
> On yon mountain so high
> So my true love can see me
> As she rides by.
>
> Floats through several Appalachian songs.
>
> --
> Bob Waltz
> [unmask]
>
> "The one thing we learn from history --
>    is that no one ever learns from history."I'll build my love a castle; I'll build a fine tower of silver and gold;
I will build my love a bower- See songs in the "Shrowsbury for me"
complex (Bonny Udney/ Boys of Kilkenny/ Paisley for me/ Strands of
McGilligan/ The Pleasures of Sunderland/ +) in the Scarce Songs 1 file
on my website.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

I am proposing that the Archives and Libraries section of the American
Folklore Society sponsor a panel or forum on folklife/ethnographic indexes
and databases for the 2002 meeting in Rochester, NY (USA) in October.  The
possibility was first discussed at the AFS 2000 meeting.  Stephanie Smith of
the Smithsonian, this year's convener for the section, has offered to help
me in the organization of this event, and we welcome your input.We envision this session as an opportunity for people who compile, edit, and
use indexes and databases in the folklore/ethnographic field to exchange
information and to debate the finer points of how we make information
accessible.  The type of reference tools we're talking about include indexes
to published and unpublished materials, as well as databases containing the
cultural artifacts themselves--songs, photographs, tunes, tales, etc.
Folklorists, librarians, anthropologists, archivists, and other scholars, as
well as storytellers and musicians, have been quick to see the value of
accessing information through computerized databases.  The Internet also
allows further expansion of these information access tools to include the
complete texts of songs, for example, or sound recordings to listen to, or
even video clips of performances.We'd like to hear from both those who compile databases and those who use
them.  What are the issues from both sides of the equation?  The following
questions are among those that could be explored by this panel:   How do
these sources "grow"?  What is the purpose and philosophy behind them?  What
types of materials do they include and exclude and why?  Who is responsible
for them?  What are the technical issues involved in setting up these
databases and then making them available--on CD, over the Web?  How are they
searched?  How are they maintained and updated?  How can we evaluate them as
sources of reliable information?  How are copyright issues dealt with?This session could be constituted as a regular panel of four or five papers
or as a forum.  I have already talked to several database producers who are
interested in participating, but we'd like to have as many producers and
users there as possible to make for lively exchanges.Please email me at the address below by March 15th if you are interested in
participating in such an event in any capacity--as a co-organizer, a paper
presenter, a discussant, a practitioner, or even as a supportive spectator!
We will then be able to put together a proposal by the April 15th deadline.
We look forward to your responses.Lyn Wolz, Reference/Instruction Librarian
Regents Center Library
University of Kansas, Edwards Campus
(913) 897-8572
[unmask]

Sorry, your browser doesn't support iframes.

Steve:Speaking of books, I have just discovered that one Steve Roud and
Jacqueline Simpson published _A Dictionary of English Folklore_ with
Oxford University Press in 2000.We must not be modest about our own accomplishments.  It is helpful when
list members inform this small community of their publications.And if a sale might result, as my old _bubbe_ would have said, "Nu, what
could it hoit?"EdOn Thu, 28 Feb 2002 [unmask] wrote:> There was some correspondence about the demise of Llanerch Press a few months
> ago. Well the good news is they've sprung to life again under new management.
> They specialise in cheap and cheerful reprints of out-of-print stuff,
> including several important British trad. song titles.
> Their website is www.llanerch-publishers.co.uk
> Steve Roud
>
>
> --
> Message sent with Supanet E-mail
>

I bought it last year and am very pleased with it as a general reference.
(But what did our bubbe's know about British folklore?  Well, as Cab
Calloway said, "Abi gezint.")
Norm CohenEd Cray wrote:
> Speaking of books, I have just discovered that one Steve Roud and
> Jacqueline Simpson published _A Dictionary of English Folklore_ with
> Oxford University Press in 2000.
>
> We must not be modest about our own accomplishments.  It is helpful when
> list members inform this small community of their publications.
>
> And if a sale might result, as my old _bubbe_ would have said, "Nu, what
> could it hoit?"
>
> Ed
>
> >

Great News!Andy[unmask] wrote:
>
> There was some correspondence about the demise of Llanerch Press a few months
> ago. Well the good news is they've sprung to life again under new management.
> They specialise in cheap and cheerful reprints of out-of-print stuff,
> including several important British trad. song titles.
> Their website is www.llanerch-publishers.co.uk
> Steve Roud
>
> --
> Message sent with Supanet E-mail

Right you are, Ed, and the "Dictionary of English Folklore" was in the
Hamilton Books (mostly remainders) flyer a few weeks ago. I ordered it
and just got a note saying it was out of stock but would be sent later.
        SandyEd Cray wrote:
>
> Steve:
>
> Speaking of books, I have just discovered that one Steve Roud and
> Jacqueline Simpson published _A Dictionary of English Folklore_ with
> Oxford University Press in 2000.
>
> We must not be modest about our own accomplishments.  It is helpful when
> list members inform this small community of their publications.
>
> And if a sale might result, as my old _bubbe_ would have said, "Nu, what
> could it hoit?"
>
> Ed
>
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 [unmask] wrote:
>
> > There was some correspondence about the demise of Llanerch Press a few months
> > ago. Well the good news is they've sprung to life again under new management.
> > They specialise in cheap and cheerful reprints of out-of-print stuff,
> > including several important British trad. song titles.
> > Their website is www.llanerch-publishers.co.uk
> > Steve Roud
> >
> >
> > --
> > Message sent with Supanet E-mail
> >

I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
information?With thanks in advance,Michael Bell

Bell Michael wrote:
>
> I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
> realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
> the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
> information?
>
> With thanks in advance,
>
> Michael BellBelden and Hudson, 'The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina
Folklore', II, #248, summarize the story (of c 1900) from an account by
E. C. Perrow in 'Songs and Rimes of the South', and JAFL XXV, 151,
neither of which I've seen. The ballad is I 9 in G. M Laws, Jr, 'Native
American Balladry'.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Bell Michael wrote:
> >
> > I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
> > realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
> > the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
> > information?
> >
> > With thanks in advance,
> >
> > Michael Bell
>
> Belden and Hudson, 'The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina
> Folklore', II, #248, summarize the story (of c 1900) from an account by
> E. C. Perrow in 'Songs and Rimes of the South', and JAFL XXV, 151,
> neither of which I've seen. The ballad is I 9 in G. M Laws, Jr, 'Native
> American Balladry'.
>
> Bruce Olson
> --
> Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
> broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
> or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
>
> Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.I think I misread Belden and Hudson's note, and the ballad probably
isn't in Perrow's 'Songs and Rimes of the South', just in the JAFL
article.Bruce Olson

Perrow has "Old Brady," a four- or five-stanza (depending on how you read
the text) version obtained "from Mississippi; country whites; MS of R. J.
Slay, student; 1908.  His single line of footnote states: "An outlaw who
was killed some years ago in Mississippi."H.M. Belden and A.P. Hudson identify R.J. Slay (then a freshman at the
University of Mississippi and a student of Perrow's) as Professor Ronald
J. Slay, who in 1948 was teaching at Wagner College, Staten Island, NY.
Slay told Belden that "the incident on which the ballad as based occurred
aoubt 1900 in Lamar county, near Purvis and Sumrall, Mississippi (old
Marion county).  Alfred Bounds was a deputy sheriff.  Brady was a would be
Copeland [sic] but a small-time holdup man.  Bounds was deputized to get
Brady for one of his crimes -- $500 dead, $1000 alive.  the two met on a
railroad track, suddenly.  Bounds beat Brady to the draw, cracked each arm
in turn, then, when Brady ran, shot him in the back."EdOn Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Bruce Olson wrote:> Bell Michael wrote:
> >
> > I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
> > realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
> > the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
> > information?
> >
> > With thanks in advance,
> >
> > Michael Bell
>
> Belden and Hudson, 'The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina
> Folklore', II, #248, summarize the story (of c 1900) from an account by
> E. C. Perrow in 'Songs and Rimes of the South', and JAFL XXV, 151,
> neither of which I've seen. The ballad is I 9 in G. M Laws, Jr, 'Native
> American Balladry'.
>
> Bruce Olson
> --
> Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
> broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
> or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
>
> Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.
>

I don't know about it's provenance, but it's a regular in the repertoire of
an octogenarian blues pianist in Zion, Illinois (north of Chicago).  He was
born in Alabama, and left home in his early teens and spent the next 20 or
so years as a itinerant road house and house party musician.  He returned
to playing his old repertoire a decade or so ago.  He told me Duncan and
Brady was one of those old songs you heard.  He might have also heard it on
a "race" record.  Though he only admits to learning things from Pinetop
Perkins records.  I found it very gratifying to find an orally transmitted
ballad living in the suburbs of Chicago at the end of the 20th century.  I
haven't seen John Campbell for a couple of years, but I hear he's still
playing and singing.Paul TylerAt 08:06 PM 3/2/02, you wrote:
>Perrow has "Old Brady," a four- or five-stanza (depending on how you read
>the text) version obtained "from Mississippi; country whites; MS of R. J.
>Slay, student; 1908.  His single line of footnote states: "An outlaw who
>was killed some years ago in Mississippi."
>
>H.M. Belden and A.P. Hudson identify R.J. Slay (then a freshman at the
>University of Mississippi and a student of Perrow's) as Professor Ronald
>J. Slay, who in 1948 was teaching at Wagner College, Staten Island, NY.
>Slay told Belden that "the incident on which the ballad as based occurred
>aoubt 1900 in Lamar county, near Purvis and Sumrall, Mississippi (old
>Marion county).  Alfred Bounds was a deputy sheriff.  Brady was a would be
>Copeland [sic] but a small-time holdup man.  Bounds was deputized to get
>Brady for one of his crimes -- $500 dead, $1000 alive.  the two met on a
>railroad track, suddenly.  Bounds beat Brady to the draw, cracked each arm
>in turn, then, when Brady ran, shot him in the back."
>
>Ed
>
>
>On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> > Bell Michael wrote:
> > >
> > > I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
> > > realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
> > > the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
> > > information?
> > >
> > > With thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > Michael Bell
> >
> > Belden and Hudson, 'The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina
> > Folklore', II, #248, summarize the story (of c 1900) from an account by
> > E. C. Perrow in 'Songs and Rimes of the South', and JAFL XXV, 151,
> > neither of which I've seen. The ballad is I 9 in G. M Laws, Jr, 'Native
> > American Balladry'.
> >
> > Bruce Olson
> > --
> > Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
> > broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
> > or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
> >
> > Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.
> >

Folks:I received a "bounce" from the server stating that this has been posted.
This resend is simply to make sure that it does get to the list.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:06:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Ed Cray <[unmask]>
To: Forum for ballad scholars <[unmask]>
Cc: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Duncan &  BradyPerrow has "Old Brady," a four- or five-stanza (depending on how you read
the text) version obtained "from Mississippi; country whites; MS of R. J.
Slay, student; 1908.  His single line of footnote states: "An outlaw who
was killed some years ago in Mississippi."H.M. Belden and A.P. Hudson identify R.J. Slay (then a freshman at the
University of Mississippi and a student of Perrow's) as Professor Ronald
J. Slay, who in 1948 was teaching at Wagner College, Staten Island, NY.
Slay told Belden that "the incident on which the ballad as based occurred
aoubt 1900 in Lamar county, near Purvis and Sumrall, Mississippi (old
Marion county).  Alfred Bounds was a deputy sheriff.  Brady was a would be
Copeland [sic] but a small-time holdup man.  Bounds was deputized to get
Brady for one of his crimes -- $500 dead, $1000 alive.  the two met on a
railroad track, suddenly.  Bounds beat Brady to the draw, cracked each arm
in turn, then, when Brady ran, shot him in the back."EdOn Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Bruce Olson wrote:> Bell Michael wrote:
> >
> > I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
> > realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
> > the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
> > information?
> >
> > With thanks in advance,
> >
> > Michael Bell
>
> Belden and Hudson, 'The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina
> Folklore', II, #248, summarize the story (of c 1900) from an account by
> E. C. Perrow in 'Songs and Rimes of the South', and JAFL XXV, 151,
> neither of which I've seen. The ballad is I 9 in G. M Laws, Jr, 'Native
> American Balladry'.
>
> Bruce Olson
> --
> Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
> broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
> or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
>
> Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.
>

Folks:This morning's NY Times has a story (bottom of page A1) by Bernard
Weintrib reporting the producer of the _Brother, Where Art Thou_ CD,
T-Bone Burnett, and two folks from the Lomax Archive presenting a check to
James Carter for $20,000.  This represents the first installment on what
could be a six-figure royalty check for Carter, who recorded "Po' Lazarus"
in 1959 for Lomax at a Mississippi prison.It's nice that the people who preserved these songs for us are finally
getting their due.  And so different from the shabby treatment accorded
Frank Profitt when the Kingston Trio ripped off his version of "Tom Dula."Ed

Yes, I'm certainly gratified that Carter is receiving his due.  I heard the
story yesterday.  and who'd o' thunk that an album of trad music that
received little airplay on commercial radio would have walked away with five
Grammies?  Will wonders never cease!  I think it's great!        MargeE-mail: [unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of Ed Cray
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 11:57 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Po' LazarusFolks:This morning's NY Times has a story (bottom of page A1) by Bernard
Weintrib reporting the producer of the _Brother, Where Art Thou_ CD,
T-Bone Burnett, and two folks from the Lomax Archive presenting a check to
James Carter for $20,000.  This represents the first installment on what
could be a six-figure royalty check for Carter, who recorded "Po' Lazarus"
in 1959 for Lomax at a Mississippi prison.It's nice that the people who preserved these songs for us are finally
getting their due.  And so different from the shabby treatment accorded
Frank Profitt when the Kingston Trio ripped off his version of "Tom Dula."Ed

Glad to hear of the revival of Llanerch Press.  And by the way, I have a
copy of their edition of 'The Song of Dermot and the Earl' (a 14th century
poem in Norman French devoted to the coming of the Anglo-Normans to Ireland
in the 12th century, given in the original on the left-hand pages and in
translation into English on the right) which is superfluous to my needs (I
accidentally bought two copies). It's a nice edition, done by Goddard Henry
Orpen in 1892, and the Llanerch Press reprint is respectable if not elegant
(356pp., paperback, including introduction, glossary, and map). If anyone
would like a copy, I will send it to the first person who requests it. All
I need is your snail mail address.Happy book hunting,Jeffrey Kallen
Trinity College Dublin

>I got to thinking about Dave Van Ronk, who recently passed away, &
>realized I don't know anything at all about the history or provenance of
>the ballad "Duncan & Brady." Can someone direct me to a source of this
>information?Brady was a white police officer in St. Louis.  Harry Duncan was a
well-known black singer.  When a fracas broke out in a downtown
saloon, Brady came running in off the street.  Duncan had taken
refuge under/behind a counter, and when Brady leaned over the
counter, Duncan shot him.  This, at least, is the official story,
which was accepted by a jury and which resulted in Duncan's being
hung.  The unofficial story is that it is suspected that Brady was
actually shot by the owner of the saloon.  This happened in the 1890s.All of this is covered in great detail in the dissertation Tragedy in
Ragtime, by the late John Russell David.  Copies can be had from U
Microfilms.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Speaking of Llanerch Press, I might ask if anyone would venture opinions
as to the value of individual titles in the "Folklore of ...." series.  I
do have the Tolmie, "Songs of Occupation" title, but would also value
opinions as to the other music titles.  Unfortunately, the web page is not
all that revealing.Ed

I've added to my website a note straightening out the confusion
of two Constantines folded together at the beginning of Part Four
of Geoffrey of Monmouth's 'History of the Kings of Britain'.
Gregory has the wrong Constantine (ap Selyfan), going to Britain
(c 435-440), and becoming high king and the father of Constans,
Ambrosius Aurelianus, and Uthyr Pendragon. Constans was long dead
by that time, being the son of Constantine, the high king of
Britain, 407-411. See Edw. Gibbon's 'Decline and Fall of the
Roman Empire', chapter 30 for his death and that of his son
Constans (and another, Julian, unknown to British history) in
Europe, and chapter 27 for those of Magnus Maximus (Geoffrey of
Monmouth's Maximianus) and his son Victor. We no longer need to
postulate two Ambrosiuses to account for a battle between
Ambrosius (Emrys Wledig) and Vitalinus (perhaps Vortigern's given
name) in 437 (from Nennius), and we don't have to cram the lives
of Ambrosius and Uthyr into about 40 years years or less (c
435-475).The recent 'The Journey to Avalon; the Final Discovery of King
Arthur' by Chris Barber and David Pykitt, 1993 and 1997, has also
has a confusion of Constantines (and enough other errors to write
a whole book on). They have picked as their Constantine one
Constantine Fendgaid (the blessed), who they take to be the high
king/emporer, but they date his reign as from to 433 to 443. We see
where they went wrong when we look at the list of the progeny of
their Constantine. They give him the progeny of Constantine the
high king of 407-411, (Constans, Ambrosius Aurelianus, and Uthyr
Pendragon, plus all the progeny of Custennin Gorneu (Erbin,
Digain and an un-named daughter that married Pebio/Pepiau).
Barber and Pykitt made no mention whatever of Custennin Gorneu.
An identification that now begs to be made is that Constantine ap
Selyfan (Salomon) did go from Brittany to Britain, not as high
king/emporer, but as the King of Dumnonia, Custennin Gorneu, as he
was called in Britain. Both names and dates work out unusually well
with this identification.Since the above has nothing directly to do with ballads, here's a
bit of trivia that does:In "The Boy and the Mantle", Child #29, it is Sir Craddocke who
first tests his wife's fidelity with the magic mantle. He is
Caradog Freichfras (Stong-arm). There's a mixture of history and
myth (and more myth than history) here:
<A href="http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bios/caradfgt.html">
Caradog Freichfras</a> Child, ESPB, I, p. 263f gives Caradog's
wife, from Arthurian romances, as Guimer/Guinon. Elsewhere it it
Enynny, or Enhinti, who also is said to be a sister of Urien of
Rheged and married to Tewdrig Mawr (Theodoric, son of Budic
II/Emyr Llydaw), and if her mother didn't have the same name,
she's also said to be the the wife of Urien of Rheged and mother
of Owain/Yvain.
The date of Caradog's reign in Vannetias, about the middle of the
6th century according to John Morris, is placed much too early in
a genealogy here; better would be 545-550: <A
href="http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~plk/History/KingListsBritain/ArmoricaBroErech.htm">
Caradog + </A>Genealogies are sometimes more myth than history, and can be pretty
funny. I found one that gave Sir Gawain's wife as Dame Ragnell,
This is from Child ballad #31 "The Marriage of Sir Gawain", or the
earlier tale form of the story. You can click on texts of both at my
website.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Bruce Olson wrote:
>................Sorry, I was too sleepy when I finally finished my previous note (about
4 AM in the morning) to do a reasonable job of proofreading. The first
paragraph should read:At the beginning of Part Four of Geoffrey of Monmouth's 'History
of the Kings of Britain', it is related how Constantine, the
brother of Aldroenus (Aldroen/ Aldrien/ Aldwr ap Selyfan), King
of Brittany (kingdom of Vannetais), was made high king of
Britain, and after going to Britain became the father of
Constans, Ambrosius Aurelianus and Uthyr (Victor) Pendragon.
This brother of Aldroen was Constantine ap Selyfan, and he was
not the father of Constans, Ambrosius Aurelians, and Uthyr
Pendragon, and not kigh king of Britain.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Actually, what got ripped off was the old Folksay Trio's (Erik Darling, Roger
Sprung, Bob Carey[?]) version which was based on Frank Warner's rather drastic
re-interpretation of Frank Profitt's rendition. All three versions are
currently available on CD, if anyone suffers from morbid curiousity.dick greenhausEd Cray wrote:> Folks:
>
> This morning's NY Times has a story (bottom of page A1) by Bernard
> Weintrib reporting the producer of the _Brother, Where Art Thou_ CD,
> T-Bone Burnett, and two folks from the Lomax Archive presenting a check to
> James Carter for $20,000.  This represents the first installment on what
> could be a six-figure royalty check for Carter, who recorded "Po' Lazarus"
> in 1959 for Lomax at a Mississippi prison.
>
> It's nice that the people who preserved these songs for us are finally
> getting their due.  And so different from the shabby treatment accorded
> Frank Profitt when the Kingston Trio ripped off his version of "Tom Dula."
>
> Ed

Just to be complete, it could have been based on a recording by Grayson and
Whitter, which pre-dated Frank Profitt's recording by a few years. Tht one's
available on CD, too.dickdick greenhaus wrote:> Actually, what got ripped off was the old Folksay Trio's (Erik Darling, Roger
> Sprung, Bob Carey[?]) version which was based on Frank Warner's rather drastic
> re-interpretation of Frank Profitt's rendition. All three versions are
> currently available on CD, if anyone suffers from morbid curiousity.
>
> dick greenhaus
>
> Ed Cray wrote:
>
> > Folks:
> >
> > This morning's NY Times has a story (bottom of page A1) by Bernard
> > Weintrib reporting the producer of the _Brother, Where Art Thou_ CD,
> > T-Bone Burnett, and two folks from the Lomax Archive presenting a check to
> > James Carter for $20,000.  This represents the first installment on what
> > could be a six-figure royalty check for Carter, who recorded "Po' Lazarus"
> > in 1959 for Lomax at a Mississippi prison.
> >
> > It's nice that the people who preserved these songs for us are finally
> > getting their due.  And so different from the shabby treatment accorded
> > Frank Profitt when the Kingston Trio ripped off his version of "Tom Dula."
> >
> > Ed

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Bruce Olson wrote:
> >................I hope you can get past the errors in my posting on the two
Constantines (emporer/emperor, etc.). I didn't forget to correct the
errors in my final draft, but, unfortunately, that's not the one I ended
up posting to Ballad-L.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Since my fiasco of posting the wrong file on the two Constantines to
Ballad-L, I've been thinking about how to identify the various drafts of
a file on a given subject, and how to find them. For me, but maybe not
best for everyone, I've come up with a system using the same filename
for all drafts, but using a file extension which is the number of the
draft divided by 1000, so there is a possibility of 1000 drafts, which
would look like this:FILENAME.000
FILENAME.001
...
FILENAME.999Most word processor programs display the filename of the file
being worked on, so it's easy at the end of a new revision to see
that it should be saved with the file extension as the next higher
number than the one displayed if you don't want to overwrite the file
you started withe.Numeric file extentions may now require an additional search step for
programs that by default look for a preferred file extension (TXT,
DOC, WPn, etc).However, all drafts can be easily found no matter what directory
they are in on Windows systems by using the FIND command of
Windows Explorer and searching for 'FILENAME*'. The last draft
is easily spotted as that with the highest number among all of
the file extensions listed. We will not find out from this what
format the file is in, but, if that information is deemed necessary,
we can revise the procedure slightly as follows.With an added complication we can handle different file formats
among our drafts by using, say, five ASCII characters for the basic
file identifier, and then the preferential file extension of 3
characters for the format to complete an 8 character filename, then
add our numerical extension to get something like:FILENWP6.000
FILENDOC.001
....
FILENTXT.999Now we can find our files in Windows systems by using the Find command
with 'FILEN*' and get a listing with formats displayed as part of the
filename, along with all numerical extensions, and now we can keep track
of our drafts even when formats are changed.I can't figure out how to squeeze into an 8 character file name and 3
character extension the information for a book with chapter #, draft #
and file format readily apparent. Long file names may be necessary, but
I hate the extra complications required for their use, and I avoid such
whenever I can.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

>...I've come up with a system using the same filename
>for all drafts, but using a file extension which is the number of the
>draft divided by 1000, so there is a possibility of 1000 drafts, which
>would look like this:
>
>FILENAME.000
>FILENAME.001
>...
>FILENAME.999Are you by chance at Duke University?  My daughter is, and they
assigned her an e-mail address that begins with her name followed by
"001."  I've always thought it hilarious that they allowed for 999
Garsts!
--
john garst    [unmask]

John Garst wrote:
>
> >...I've come up with a system using the same filename
> >for all drafts, but using a file extension which is the number of the
> >draft divided by 1000, so there is a possibility of 1000 drafts, which
> >would look like this:
> >
> >FILENAME.000
> >FILENAME.001
> >...
> >FILENAME.999
>
> Are you by chance at Duke University?  My daughter is, and they
> assigned her an e-mail address that begins with her name followed by
> "001."  I've always thought it hilarious that they allowed for 999
> Garsts!
> --
> john garst    [unmask]They probably don't even have a 1000 Olsons at Duke. Never been there,
but I've been acquainted with some Physics profs there. One left and is
now head of the Phys. Dept. at Ohio State Univ.Incidently, Slay's description of the fight between Bounds and Brady
fits "Duncan and Brady" so poorly that I have no doubts that the origin
that you pointed out is the correct one.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

>Incidently, Slay's description of the fight between Bounds and Brady
>fits "Duncan and Brady" so poorly that I have no doubts that the origin
>that you pointed out is the correct one.It has to be.  "Rusty" David really nailed "Stagolee" and "Duncan and
Brady," and, IMHO, he drove the last coffin nails into any lingering
doubts that "Frankie," as we know it, describes the killing of Al
Britt by Frankie Baker in 1899, the other woman being Alice Pryor.
--
john garst    [unmask]

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:15:21PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:> Since my fiasco of posting the wrong file on the two Constantines to
> Ballad-L, I've been thinking about how to identify the various drafts of
> a file on a given subject, and how to find them. For me, but maybe not
> best for everyone, I've come up with a system using the same filename
> for all drafts, but using a file extension which is the number of the
> draft divided by 1000, so there is a possibility of 1000 drafts, which
> would look like this:
>
> FILENAME.000
> FILENAME.001
> ...
> FILENAME.999
>
> Most word processor programs display the filename of the file
> being worked on, so it's easy at the end of a new revision to see
> that it should be saved with the file extension as the next higher
> number than the one displayed if you don't want to overwrite the file
> you started withe.        Hmm ... problems may come from programs which *insist* on having
a particular extension, such as ".DOC".> Numeric file extentions may now require an additional search step for
> programs that by default look for a preferred file extension (TXT,
> DOC, WPn, etc).        FILNM001.DOC ...        [ ... ]> With an added complication we can handle different file formats
> among our drafts by using, say, five ASCII characters for the basic
> file identifier, and then the preferential file extension of 3
> characters for the format to complete an 8 character filename, then
> add our numerical extension to get something like:
>
> FILENWP6.000
> FILENDOC.001
> ....
> FILENTXT.999
>
> Now we can find our files in Windows systems by using the Find command
> with 'FILEN*' and get a listing with formats displayed as part of the
> filename, along with all numerical extensions, and now we can keep track
> of our drafts even when formats are changed.        Hmm ... I find myself reminded of the two program version
control systems available on unix.  One (and probably the older) is
"SCCS" (Source Code Control System), and the other is "RCS" (Revision
Control System).        The disadvantage is that both work only with plain ASCII, not
with binaries such as ".DOC" files. (And if you think that a ".DOC" file
is not a binary, look into one with some tool other than Word someday. :-)        The advantage is that a large number of versions of the file are
stored in a single file, and you can extract and work on any version.
You can even generate a branch from one of the earlier versions, should
that turn out to be advantageous.  The version number is of the form:                BalladIndex.c   2.3 00/07/24-20:05:19and when editing the file, it appears in the form:        %W% %D%-%T%The "%W" part expands to the filename, the "%D" expands to the date, and
the "%T" expands to the time.  There are other "%-words" which preserve
other information -- this is what I choose to use.  Date and time refer
to when the latest fileversion was checked back into the SCCS system.
When you get it to edit, the "%" words are preserved.  When you get it
to *use* it (e.g. to compile a program with it), they are expanded into
the text form for inclusion into the program.The file which contains all the versions is called "s.BalladIndex.c" in
the case of this file.  You get versions with the "get" command, and put
modifications in with the "delta" command.        Now -- if you could keep the versions in .TXT format, you could
use a version of this -- and some have been made available for MicroSoft
OS's -- though the extra "s." at the beginning of the file might be a
problem on some versions.        Yes -- I *have* used SCCS to keep multiple revisions of a
document, such as Bylaws for an organization, so it works.  And the
revision information can be kept in a comment type string, where it
won't show up in the final document, if you so desire.> I can't figure out how to squeeze into an 8 character file name and 3
> character extension the information for a book with chapter #, draft #
> and file format readily apparent. Long file names may be necessary, but
> I hate the extra complications required for their use, and I avoid such
> whenever I can.        Move to unix/linux/BSD and long file names are the natural form. :-)        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
        (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
           --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I wrote>"Rusty" David really nailed "Stagolee" and "Duncan and Brady," and,
>IMHO, he drove the last coffin nails into any lingering doubts that
>"Frankie," as we know it, describes the killing of Al Britt by
>Frankie Baker in 1899, the other woman being Alice Pryor.Ed Cray asked me privately for more information, but in the hope that
others are interested in this dissertation, I post information here
from a ProQuest search at
http://wwwlib.umi.com/dissertations/searchTRAGEDY IN RAGTIME: BLACK FOLKTALES FROM ST. LOUIS.
by DAVID, JOHN RUSSELL, PHD
SAINT LOUIS UNIVERSITY, 1976, 323 pages
AAT 7622522I believe that the last number is UMI's ID number.
--
john garst    [unmask]

DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 02:15:21PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
>.....................<...................
>         Enjoy,
>                 DoN.
>
> --
>  Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
>         (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
>            --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---Let me say my aim is to get the best results from readily available
programs using the common Windows system. I bought and loaded SUSE LINUX
and got it working on the internet and got the CD ROM installed (which
my Windows 98 sometimes can't find), but then gave it some command it
didn't like, and my compter locked up and I had to shut off the power to
get it unlocked. However, LINUS would no longer boot up and I figured it
was going to take me months to figure out what the error messages meant,
and erasing and reloading the system would probably just get me back to
the place where I would make the same error. I finally decided it would
probably take me longer than I could afford to learn LINUX to point
where I was reasonably profficient at it. I want to spend most of my
time on research of folk songs and ballads and related old songs and
tunes, not learning how to be an expert on computer software and
systems, so I tend to stick with obsolete methods until I get to the
point that I can't do what I want to do with what I have and know.
That's been the case since I learned FORTRAN in 1957, and it's worked
well for me.Heeding Don Nichols objections, I don't think its a good idea to use
numerical file extensions for anything other than straight ASCII
text because there are programs that require a given file
extension to open the program. Most of my programs give me the
option of selecting the format, but Adobe Acrobat, for example, wont
look at a .TXT file.If we limit our drafts to 99 then a basic 6 character file
subject identifier with a 2 digit sequence number to make and 8
charactter file name should work well with the normal default
extension for the file format. Searching all directories for
FILENA* would still find all drafts in a series no matter what
format they might have, e.g.:FILENA00.TXT
FIlENA01.DOC
..
FILENA98.WP6
FILENA99.pdfFIND FILENA* in Windows Explorer will agsin turn up all drafts.If 10 drafts are sufficient you may want to go to a single digit
for sequence number.The disadvantage is that you may have to have the last sequence
number handy if you make a new version in a new format, so you
don't use the same sequence number twice. Keeping track of
sequence numbers so you don't skip a number or duplicate a number
can be a quite bothersome chore (and you're almost certain to make some
errors and have to backtrack and renumber), in cases where a computer
doesn't keep track of them for you automatically.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

> Let me say my aim is to get the best results from readily available
> programs using the common Windows system. [...]
> Heeding Don Nichols objections, I don't think its a good idea to use
> numerical file extensions for anything other than straight ASCII
> text because there are programs that require a given file extension
> to open the program.Why are you trying to do this by filenames?Can't you just put a header or footer line in the file that encodes the
version and then search for it?  Such searches are trivial on Unix and
doable in several different ways on Macs, albeit less efficiently unless
you have a machine recent enough to run Sherlock, which I don't.If you use some sort of thesaurus numbering system, string-matching on
the start of the line will give you all the completions you have in
your file system.  Start with a string unique in your document set:  *! Ballad Project 1which will have descendants  *! Ballad Project 1.1
  *! Ballad Project 1.2which in turn have descendants  *! Ballad Project 1.1.1
  *! Ballad Project 1.2.0
  *! Ballad Project 1.2.0.1
  *! Ballad Project 1.2.1.0.provisional draft38 (10/03/2002)
  *! Ballad Project 1.2.1.0.provisional draft38 (10/03/2002) afterthoughti.e. a system of deltas like SCCS.I presume Windows must have some search-through-a-bunch-of-directories-
for-a-matching-string utility that could do the same as Macs and Unix can.I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a version of SCCS or RCS for DOS/
Windows.  I've never used them as I started my computing career with a
multi-site multi-architecture project where the only possible kind of
version control was screaming down the phone "what on earth have you
done to my graphics driver module?" to somebody 200 miles away.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin  *   11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
tel 0131 660 4760  *  fax 0870 055 4975  *  http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/
food intolerance data & recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish music

Dear FriendSorry to tell, Hamish Henderson died last night, Friday 9th,  about 7pm.
He had had a 'severe stroke' a couple of days ago.
There will of course be information in the newspapers.
A terrible loss to Scotland, if he had lived to 150 it would not have been
enough.
We are the better for having known him.EwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

I'm sorry to hear about Hamish Henderson, too.  I remember that he virtually
adopted me when I was in Edinburgh in 1976, and, as you might expect, the
first thing that he did was to take me to Sandy Bell's.  What a great and
gracious man!        MargeE-mail: [unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for ballad scholars [mailto:[unmask]]On Behalf
Of Ewan McVicar
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:32 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: A brief and sad messageDear FriendSorry to tell, Hamish Henderson died last night, Friday 9th,  about 7pm.
He had had a 'severe stroke' a couple of days ago.
There will of course be information in the newspapers.
A terrible loss to Scotland, if he had lived to 150 it would not have been
enough.
We are the better for having known him.EwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

What powers did having your ballad entered in Stationer's Hall give you?Are there recorded cases of it being used as evidence in civil court
actions, could you put plagiarists in the pillory...?  The system
couldn't have survived for as long as it did without the publishers
getting something out of it.=================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> ===================

On 3/9/02, Jack Campin wrote:>What powers did having your ballad entered in Stationer's Hall give you?
>
>Are there recorded cases of it being used as evidence in civil court
>actions, could you put plagiarists in the pillory...?Just as a note: It's not really fair to call them plagiarists at
this early date. Until the invention of printing, writers could
survive only by having a patron, and use of portions of other
works was accepted practice. Often without footnotes. (E.g.
large parts of Livy are straight out of Polybius, and large
parts of Shakespeare are slightly-retouched texts of Holinshed
or Plutarch.) After printing was invented, that changed -- but
it took quite a while for the morality to change.And I'm not sure we're really better off for it. :-)>The system
>couldn't have survived for as long as it did without the publishers
>getting something out of it.Registering something in the SR was vaguely the equivalent of
copyright: If you registered something, no one else could
publish it.It's worth noting that registrations could be for the purpose
of "blocking": If *you* licensed Shakespeare's "Henry IV Part Part I,"
no one else could print it without arrangement. There are a
number of instances of this in the Elizabethan era, and you
can read about them in most annotated Shakespeares (_The
Riverside Shakespeare_ is particularly good on this, in my
experience): A number of plays seem to have been registered
without being printed.I don't know if there were any court cases, but the rules on
these things were quite strict. OTOH, they weren't as limiting
as they might sound: A law (pushed through by scriveners) had
it that no edition, unless specially licensed, could contain
more than 1500 copies, and the type had to be torn down after
printing. If you wanted a second edition, it had to be
reset. So a registration was really only for the life of the
printing.Interesting incentive to not sell things too fast. :-)And a different edition would be safe. Thus, "good" and "bad"
quartos of Shakespeare could exist side by side.It might be interesting for someone to try a project on broadsides:
Look at songs which were registered and for which multiple early
printings exist, as opposed to songs which were *not* registered.
Did the registered songs show more variations?
--
Robert B. Waltz  - - - - - - - - Ballad Index Editor
1078 Colne Street
Saint Paul, MN 55103-1348
651-489-1930 - - - - - - - - - - e-mail: [unmask]The Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html

Jack Campin wrote:
>
> What powers did having your ballad entered in Stationer's Hall give you?
>
> Are there recorded cases of it being used as evidence in civil court
> actions, could you put plagiarists in the pillory...?  The system
> couldn't have survived for as long as it did without the publishers
> getting something out of it.
>
> =================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> ===================See the two paragraphs under 'Licensing' (which wasn't the same
as entering in the Stationers' Register) in the introduction to
the broadside ballad index on my website. Rich. Burton, a prolific
broadside ballad printer from 1643 to c 1676, never entered a broadside
ballad in the Stationers' Register, with the possible exception of one
ballad, where the name in the entry has been interpreted as Barton.Bruce Olson--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

I had the same experience in 1988. Does anyone have an address to which
condolences might be sent?Nathan> I'm sorry to hear about Hamish Henderson, too.  I remember that he virtually
> adopted me when I was in Edinburgh in 1976, and, as you might expect, the
> first thing that he did was to take me to Sandy Bell's.  What a great and
> gracious man!
>
>         Marge
>

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Jack Campin wrote:
> >
> > What powers did having your ballad entered in Stationer's Hall give you?
> >
> > Are there recorded cases of it being used as evidence in civil court
> > actions, could you put plagiarists in the pillory...?  The system
> > couldn't have survived for as long as it did without the publishers
> > getting something out of it.
> >
> > =================== <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> ===================
>
> See the two paragraphs under 'Licensing' (which wasn't the same
> as entering in the Stationers' Register) in the introduction to
> the broadside ballad index on my website. Rich. Burton, a prolific
> broadside ballad printer from 1643 to c 1676, never entered a broadside
> ballad in the Stationers' Register, with the possible exception of one
> ballad, where the name in the entry has been interpreted as Barton.
>
> Bruce Olson
>
> --
> Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
> broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
> or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
>
> Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.A Warning- broadside ballad editors were as careless as the
printers/publishers in use of terminology. They often used
'licensed' when they should have said 'entered in the Stationers'
Register'. If they give no other details, you have to check the
Stationers' Register to see if licensed or entered is correct.
[But the extant entered ballads are noted as such in my broadside ballad
index]The Stationers' Register entry of date Aug. 3, 1687, for "Tobias
Observation" (ZN2547) notes that it had been licensed by R. P. on
June 7, 1686. ZN2322 and ZN2752 were licensed and entered on the
same day. ZN1499 was entered the day after it was licensed. The log of
licensed ballads may still be extant in the accounts of the Office of
Revels, but as far as I know, no one has looked for them.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Hi folks:Some friends and I were discussing the song "Going to the West" that's
become popular in folk-revival circles in the last few years. The apparent
source for most revival versions is Peggy Seeger; the liner notes to one of
her recordings state that the song was collected from Janie Barnard Couch in
Alabama, late 1940s. I'm guessing that she gave this song, along with
others, to Byron Arnold, who printed it in "Folksongs of Alabama" (U. of
Ala. Press, 1950), but I don't have access to the book to verify this.Do any of you have a copy of the book? If so, I'd very much like the words
as printed, plus any notes Harlan made on the song. Thanks in advance!Peace,
Paul

My last letter from Hamish, about two years ago, was from 20 Melville
Terrace, Edinburgh EH9 1LY, Scotland.I'd like to recommend his absolutely unmissable collection Alias
MacAlias: Writings on Songs, Folk and Literature (1992).  It's typical
of him that he manages to put in a good word for Maconagall along the
way.Gerald PorterNathan Rose wrote:
>
> I had the same experience in 1988. Does anyone have an address to which
> condolences might be sent?
>
> Nathan
>

Dear FriendFurther to my message about Hamish's death, I want to let you know the
current state of planning as I have been told it.There will be a church service on the morning of Thursday 14th, and a
private cremation.
The church is 'likely to be St Mary's' - don't know where that is yet.
There should be notices in the Scottish papers tomorrow, Tuesday. No
obituary in the Herald today.There will definately be a 'Gathering' to celebrate Hamish's life and
achievements, at 2.30pm on Thursday 14th in the Pleasance in Edinburgh. The
building called the Pleasance is on the street also called the Pleasance!
The Gathering is being organised by Jean Bechhofer.If you want to send a message to Hamish's family, write to
Katzel Henderson at 22 Melville Terrace, Edinburgh EH9 1CR.Best regardsEwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

Dear FriendI am told that the date of Hamish's funeral has been changed to Friday
15th, 2.30pm, in St Mary's Episcopal Cathedral, Palmerston Place, West End.There is to be a small private cremation.
The location for the Gathering afterwards [around 5pm] has not yet been
fixed.
I was mistaken, through getting an early edition of the Herald. They had an
obit on Saturday.
Obits today in Times,
<http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,60-232183,00.html>
Guardian
<www.guardian.co.uk>
and Scotsman
<www.scotsman.com>
Full page in latter two, I've not seen the Times.
Many thanks to all who have posted previous information to other lists,
please send this also.EwanEwan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

Paul Stamler wrote:
>
> Hi folks:
>
> Some friends and I were discussing the song "Going to the West" that's
> become popular in folk-revival circles in the last few years. The apparent
> source for most revival versions is Peggy Seeger; the liner notes to one of
> her recordings state that the song was collected from Janie Barnard Couch in
> Alabama, late 1940s. I'm guessing that she gave this song, along with
> others, to Byron Arnold, who printed it in "Folksongs of Alabama" (U. of
> Ala. Press, 1950), but I don't have access to the book to verify this.
>
> Do any of you have a copy of the book? If so, I'd very much like the words
> as printed, plus any notes Harlan made on the song. Thanks in advance!
>
> Peace,
> PaulArnold doesn't say when he collected the song, but in the heading to 10
songs from Janie Barnard Gouch he said he was a guest in the Gouch home
in Centerville some years ago.Some inmformation on this was posted on the Mudcat forum, about 2 years
agoBruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Latest information, from Frank Bechhofer.There will indeed be a gathering at The Pleasance but now on Friday at 5.00
p.m.  It is not really being 'organised' by Jean Bechhofer if only because
'organisation' hardly seems appropriate at a celebration for Hamish, but we
have organised the booking of The Pleasance Cabaret Bar, indeed as Ewan
says
in The Pleasance.  And if anyone wants more information about where it is,
we'll be happy to help.Ewan McVicar
84 High Street
Linlithgow
EH49 7AQ
01506 847935

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Paul Stamler wrote:
> >
> >Arnold's headnote to "I'm Going to the West" reads:I [Janie Couch] believe that this song was composed about 1880,
when there was a large migration of people from the county going
to the new lands of Texas. This is about a young man whose wife
would not accompany him on the journey....Words and an ABC of the tune were posted to the Mudcat Forum (not
DT where there's a slight error in the text) in early 1999. Search the
Forum on 'Going to the West'.I scanned the page with the song to a .BMP file, but it came out nearly
12MB long and still isn't completely legible. I still have an image of
the tune that I made with a CAD system and turned into a .JPG, but
that's no better than you can do with the ABC posted to the Mudcat
Forum.Bruce Olson
--
Roots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Can anyone point me to biographical material on MacEdward Leach on line?Where was he born, raised?Thanks.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Earlier today I received messages from Dr. Maggie Mackay, Director of Archives
at the School of Scottish Studies where Hamish Henderson worked from its
founding in 1951 onward.  As you can see, she welcomes hearing from colleagues
who wish to write.  Here's an excerpt of her messages with contact information. I'm
sure she would enjoy hearing from anyone who feels moved to write.Stephanie
**************************************************************... Hamish passed away on Friday evening, with great nobility and dignity.
As you can guess, we are all - the School, the nation - feeling bereft.Thanks for letting others know and feel free to encourage anyone
who wishes to, to send their thoughts to me by email.Dr Margaret A Mackay
Director of Archives
School of Scottish Studies
Department of Celtic and Scottish Studies
27 - 29 George Square
Edinburgh       EH8 9LD
Tel: 0131 650 4167
Fax No: 0131 650 4163
Email: [unmask]

The Scotsman obit is at:http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/obituaries.cfm?id=272292002JR

Good People:I believe I failed to post to ballad-l this now belated "update" on the
James Thin/Greig-Duncan last volume.It doesn't tell us much -- other than the fact that James Thin is
responsive to queries.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:45:54 -0000
From: [unmask]
To: [unmask]
Subject: : Order 008041, James Thin OnlineDear Mr CrayThank you for your message.Although we do ask for credit card information at the time an order
is placed on the website we do not actually charge anything until
the point of despatching the books so we have not charged you for
the Greig Duncan.The latest information is that it is still not published, the date
having been put back again, and we don't know when it will finally
become available. Sometime this year.We are still trading from our shops and the best place to get
information regarding the availablity of books is from our main
branch on [unmask] We have a limited supply chain at
present so not everything can be obtained but we hope this will
change over the next few weeks.I hope this helps.Yours sincerely
Gail Thomson> Dear Ms. Thomson:
>
> I am sorry to learn of the receivrship (as it is known in the States)
> of James Thin.
>
> My enquiry is in two parts:  I believe, but am not sure, that I paid
> by credit card for this eighth and last volume of the Grieg-Duncan
> folk song collection.  I assume then that I am a creditor of the firm.
>  True?
>
> Will some other company assume responsibility for distributing
> these
> books, most recently published by Mercat Press?
>
> Ed Cray
>
>
>  On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 [unmask] wrote:
>
> > Dear Mr Cray
> >
> > As James Thin is now in administration the web operation has been
> > closed and we regret to inform you that we will be unable to fulfil
> > any outstanding orders. Any outstanding order has been cancelled.
> >
> > No charge has been made for any outstanding order.
> >
> > Any further infromation regarding the availablilty of books should
> > be addressed to your local branch or our South Bridge branch on
> > [unmask]
> >
> > If you have any queries please contact me at the email address
> > above.
> >
> > Thank you for your custom and please accept our apologies for any
> > inconvenience this may cause.
> >
> > Yours sincerely
> > Gail Thomson
> > >
> > >
> > >  1 IS  1  1841830127  Shuldam-SHaw, P. (ED) #       GBP 35.00  GBP
> > >  35.00
> > >                       Greig-DUncan Folk Song             JTS
> > >                       Collection # {Hardback}
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > In Administration
> >
> > **********************************************************
> >
> > G I Bennet and Bruce Cartwright have been appointed as
> > joint administrators of James Thin Limited to manage its
> > affairs, business and property as its agents.
> > Iain Bennet is licensed to act as an insolvency
> > practitioner by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in
> > England and Wales. Bruce Cartwright is licensed by the
> > Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland.
> >
> > **********************************************************
> >
>
> ------- End of forwarded message -------
> In Administration
>
> **********************************************************
>
> G I Bennet and Bruce Cartwright have been appointed as
> joint administrators of James Thin Limited to manage its
> affairs, business and property as its agents.
> Iain Bennet is licensed to act as an insolvency
> practitioner by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in
> England and Wales. Bruce Cartwright is licensed by the
> Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland.
>
> **********************************************************
>In Administration**********************************************************G I Bennet and Bruce Cartwright have been appointed as
joint administrators of James Thin Limited to manage its
affairs, business and property as its agents.
Iain Bennet is licensed to act as an insolvency
practitioner by the Institute of Chartered Accountants in
England and Wales. Bruce Cartwright is licensed by the
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland.**********************************************************

I copied this from a manuscript in the National Library of Scotland
a few years ago but forgot to note the source.  Anybody recognize it?It doesn't fit any of the tunes called "The Miller's Daughter" very
well, and I can't see why the rhymes all go to pot near the end.The Miller's Daughter
=====================The lang man went o'er the lee,
   Green leaves is green O,
He said he'd give his half year's fee
   To let him ly between twa.The miller's daughter lang and tough,
   Green leaves is green O,
She said she'd gie him wark enough
   And lay him ay between twa.The first night he with her lay
   Green leaves is green O,
He turn'd to her nine times ere day,
   And she lay him ay between twa.The second night he with her lay,
   Green leaves is green O,
He turn'd to her seven times ere day,
   And she lay him ay between twa.The third night he with her lay,
   Green leaves is green O,
He turn'd to her five times ere day,
   And she lay him ay between twa.The fourth night he with her lay,
   Green leaves is green O,
He turn'd to her three times ere day,
   And she lay him ay between twa.The fifth night he with her lay,
   Green leaves is green O,
He turn'd to her no times ere day,
   And she bad him come between twa."I thought the mill it was the kirk,
   Green leaves is green O,
I thought the sacks it was the fouk,
   I had lain so lang between twa.I thought the clap it was the bell,
   Green leaves is green O,
I thought the clapper little hell,
   I had lain so lang between twa.As I went o'er my father's lee,
   Green leaves is green O,
I thought my head was turned a-jee,
   I had lain so lang between twa.As I went up my father's craft,
   Green leaves is green O,
The winnie straws they did me fank,
   I had lain so lang between twa.As I went burt my father's group,
   Green leaves is green O,
I bad farewell to that bull stirk,
   Because he's lying between twa.Some cry'd for meat, some cry'd for drink,
   Green leaves is green O,
But his mother brought him the winding sheet,
   He had lain so lang between twa.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin  *   11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
tel 0131 660 4760  *  fax 0870 055 4975  *  http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/
food intolerance data & recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish music

FYI, recent developments:The "John Henry" Blankenship broadside, imprinted "W. T. Blankenship"
at the bottom, was recovered ca 1927 from Rome, GA.  The literature
contains vague mentions of other Blankenship broadsides, but no
specifics that I've been able to find.  WorldCat (OCLC) contains
nothing by W. T. Blankenship.Another broadside from W. T. Blankenship , "The Great Titanic," sold
on e-Bay yesterday ($160, perhaps a bargain, but I wasn't willing to
go higher).  It was recovered "years ago" from an estate in
Huntsville, AL.A William T. Blankenship, b 1876, lived in Limestone County, AL, as a
child (and perhaps later).  He was blind.  At least one photograph of
him survives.  Perhaps he was a musician who played on the streets
and sold broadsides, as did the famous blind Kentuckian Dick Burnett.I believe that John Henry probably met his fate at Oak Tunnel,
Dunnavant, AL, in 1887.All of these places, Dunnavant (Shelby County, AL), Limestone County
(containing Athens, AL, a center of old-time fiddling), Huntsville
(Madison County, AL, bordering Limestone on the east), and Rome
(Floyd County, GA, near the northwest corner of the state), are
pretty close together.I think these convergences could be significant.If anyone knows of any other W. T. Blankenship broadsides, please let me know.
--
john garst    [unmask]

Hi!        It's been slow the last week or so on Ebay. Here is what I have
found which may be of interest -        1523277656 - Murders and Moralities: English Catchpenny Prints
        1800-1860 by Thomas Gretton, (A Colonnade Book), 1980
        1523341436 - Percy's Reliques of Ancient English Poetry
                        Volume 1- 1908
        1523369532 - POPULAR BALLADS AND SONGS, rom Traditin,
                        Manuscripts
          and Sczrce Editionos; With Translations of Similar Pieces
          From the Ancient Danish language, and A Few originals By
          The Editory, by Robert jamieson. 1806
        1523400909 - IDAHO FOLKLIFE homesteads to headstones.
                Attebery, Louie / Wayland Hand 1985
        1523507308 - THE BOOK OF BALLADS 1861, Seventh Edition edited by
                        Bon Gaultier. Illustrated
        1082082755 - WATTY MORGANS DON'T KEEP THE WORKING MAN DOWN.
        850891337 - Ballads & Songs of the Civil War
                        by Jerry Silverman
        1523288683 = Folk-Songs from the Southern Highlands 1938
                collected and edited by Mellinger Edward Henry
        1524068879 - The Colorado Magazine. The Colorado Historical
        Society; Summer/Fall 1979 includes an article on European
                Legends and American Cowboy Ballads
        1523906312 - Viking Book of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking
                        World edited by Friedman                                Happy bidding!
                                        Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
>         It's been slow the last week or so on Ebay. Here is what I have
> found which may be of interest -
>
>         1523277656 - Murders and Moralities: English Catchpenny Prints
>         1800-1860 by Thomas Gretton, (A Colonnade Book), 1980
>         1523341436 - Percy's Reliques of Ancient English Poetry
>                         Volume 1- 1908
>         1523369532 - POPULAR BALLADS AND SONGS, rom Traditin,
>                         Manuscripts
>           and Sczrce Editionos; With Translations of Similar Pieces
>           From the Ancient Danish language, and A Few originals By
>           The Editory, by Robert jamieson. 1806
>         1523400909 - IDAHO FOLKLIFE homesteads to headstones.
>                 Attebery, Louie / Wayland Hand 1985
>         1523507308 - THE BOOK OF BALLADS 1861, Seventh Edition edited by
>                         Bon Gaultier. Illustrated
>         1082082755 - WATTY MORGANS DON'T KEEP THE WORKING MAN DOWN.
>         850891337 - Ballads & Songs of the Civil War
>                         by Jerry Silverman
>         1523288683 = Folk-Songs from the Southern Highlands 1938
>                 collected and edited by Mellinger Edward Henry
>         1524068879 - The Colorado Magazine. The Colorado Historical
>         Society; Summer/Fall 1979 includes an article on European
>                 Legends and American Cowboy Ballads
>         1523906312 - Viking Book of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking
>                         World edited by Friedman
>
>                                 Happy bidding!
>                                         Dolores
>
> --
> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?Somewhat curious is that the 1933 edition of Mellinger Edward Henry's
book is offered through www.bookfinder.com at $75 and the 1938 edition
at $125. Jamieson's volume is priced at $250.Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 02:48:37PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> Dolores Nichols wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> >         It's been slow the last week or so on Ebay. Here is what I have
> > found which may be of interest -
> >
> >         1523277656 - Murders and Moralities: English Catchpenny Prints
> >         1800-1860 by Thomas Gretton, (A Colonnade Book), 1980
> >         1523341436 - Percy's Reliques of Ancient English Poetry
> >                         Volume 1- 1908
> >         1523369532 - POPULAR BALLADS AND SONGS, rom Traditin,
> >                         Manuscripts
> >           and Sczrce Editionos; With Translations of Similar Pieces
> >           From the Ancient Danish language, and A Few originals By
> >           The Editory, by Robert jamieson. 1806
> >         1523400909 - IDAHO FOLKLIFE homesteads to headstones.
> >                 Attebery, Louie / Wayland Hand 1985
> >         1523507308 - THE BOOK OF BALLADS 1861, Seventh Edition edited by
> >                         Bon Gaultier. Illustrated
> >         1082082755 - WATTY MORGANS DON'T KEEP THE WORKING MAN DOWN.
> >         850891337 - Ballads & Songs of the Civil War
> >                         by Jerry Silverman
> >         1523288683 = Folk-Songs from the Southern Highlands 1938
> >                 collected and edited by Mellinger Edward Henry
> >         1524068879 - The Colorado Magazine. The Colorado Historical
> >         Society; Summer/Fall 1979 includes an article on European
> >                 Legends and American Cowboy Ballads
> >         1523906312 - Viking Book of Folk Ballads of the English-Speaking
> >                         World edited by Friedman
> >
> >                                 Happy bidding!
> >                                         Dolores
> >
> > --
> > Dolores Nichols                 |
> > D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> > Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
> >         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?
>
> Somewhat curious is that the 1933 edition of Mellinger Edward Henry's
> book is offered through www.bookfinder.com at $75 and the 1938 edition
> at $125. Jamieson's volume is priced at $250.Bruce,        The Mellinger Edward Henry book is the 1938 edition and opening
at $49.99. It has no bids at the moment.        The Jamieson is opening at $95 and has one bid so far.        My advice is to read the descriptions carefully and contact the
sellers with questions before bidding.        Hope that this info helps!                                Dolores--
Dolores Nichols                 |
D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
        --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?

Dolores Nichols wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2002 at 02:48:37PM -0500, Bruce Olson wrote:
> >
> > Dolores Nichols wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi!> Dolores Nichols                 |
> D&D Data                        | Voice :       (703) 938-4564
> Disclaimer: from here - None    | Email:     <[unmask]>
>         --- .sig? ----- .what?  Who me?Although I'd like to have the two books I mentioned,  I'm not bidding on
them, as yet. Wasted all my money on King Arthur.I'm still trying to get off of a serious King Arthur jag, and am
awaiting another recent scholarly work, then I hope for a quick
recovery. That which follows below will be that last here on the
subject.One book of 1991, 'The Arthur of the Welsh', demolishes Nennius's
Historia Brittonum as real history (based on continuing work by
David N. Dumville on all MS copies of it), and at the conclusion
of the chapter on the History of Arthur, makes the statement
that he might well have been real, but historians can as yet say
nothing of value about him. Welsh poems, triads and tales that
seem to be independent of Geoffry of Monmouth's 'History' give
only a 3M Arthur (magic, monsters, and miracles, with the odd
giant here and there).I found that one of the recent 'true' King Arthur books had
already noted the death of Constantine and his son Constans in
411 CE, but disregarded Geoffrey statement that Ambrosius was
Constans brother because that would make Ambrosius too old. Too
old for what? If it weren't for the mention of him by Gildas (an
account paraphrased by the Venerable Bede), he would be a sky-
hook, which is a position fixing line, the anchor end of which is
firmly embedded in a cloud. Where is he tied to any known
historical event? [The book noted above calls Arthur's
grandfather on his mother's side, Amlawdd Wledig, 'a function
rather than a person', with his daughter's sons all made heros, so he
is just a sky-hook given a name.]Now, shall I beat out the rest of my brains on Robin Hood, or go
back to folk and other old songs and ballads and their music?Bruce OlsonRoots of Folk: Old British Isles popular and folk songs, tunes,
broadside ballads at my no-spam website - www.erols.com/olsonw
or just <A href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Motto: Keep at it; muddling through always works.

Very interesting, John.  I'd have loved to have seen the "Titanic"
broadside.
Norm Cohen----- Original Message -----
From: "John Garst" <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 10:34 AM
Subject: W. T. Blankenship> FYI, recent developments:
>
> The "John Henry" Blankenship broadside, imprinted "W. T. Blankenship"
> at the bottom, was recovered ca 1927 from Rome, GA.  The literature
> contains vague mentions of other Blankenship broadsides, but no
> specifics that I've been able to find.  WorldCat (OCLC) contains
> nothing by W. T. Blankenship.
>
> Another broadside from W. T. Blankenship , "The Great Titanic," sold
> on e-Bay yesterday ($160, perhaps a bargain, but I wasn't willing to
> go higher).  It was recovered "years ago" from an estate in
> Huntsville, AL.
>
> A William T. Blankenship, b 1876, lived in Limestone County, AL, as a
> child (and perhaps later).  He was blind.  At least one photograph of
> him survives.  Perhaps he was a musician who played on the streets
> and sold broadsides, as did the famous blind Kentuckian Dick Burnett.
>
> I believe that John Henry probably met his fate at Oak Tunnel,
> Dunnavant, AL, in 1887.
>
> All of these places, Dunnavant (Shelby County, AL), Limestone County
> (containing Athens, AL, a center of old-time fiddling), Huntsville
> (Madison County, AL, bordering Limestone on the east), and Rome
> (Floyd County, GA, near the northwest corner of the state), are
> pretty close together.
>
> I think these convergences could be significant.
>
> If anyone knows of any other W. T. Blankenship broadsides, please let me
know.
> --
> john garst    [unmask]

Two versions of the song appear in Emily Lyle's 'Andrew Crawfurd's Collection
of Ballads & Songs' Vol.2 (Scottish Text Soc, 1996)
Steve Roud[unmask] wrote:> I copied this from a manuscript in the National Library of Scotland
> a few years ago but forgot to note the source.  Anybody recognize it?
>
> It doesn't fit any of the tunes called "The Miller's Daughter" very
> well, and I can't see why the rhymes all go to pot near the end.
>
>
> The Miller's Daughter
> =====================
>
> The lang man went o'er the lee,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He said he'd give his half year's fee
>    To let him ly between twa.
>
> The miller's daughter lang and tough,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> She said she'd gie him wark enough
>    And lay him ay between twa.
>
> The first night he with her lay
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He turn'd to her nine times ere day,
>    And she lay him ay between twa.
>
> The second night he with her lay,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He turn'd to her seven times ere day,
>    And she lay him ay between twa.
>
> The third night he with her lay,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He turn'd to her five times ere day,
>    And she lay him ay between twa.
>
> The fourth night he with her lay,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He turn'd to her three times ere day,
>    And she lay him ay between twa.
>
> The fifth night he with her lay,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> He turn'd to her no times ere day,
>    And she bad him come between twa.
>
> "I thought the mill it was the kirk,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> I thought the sacks it was the fouk,
>    I had lain so lang between twa.
>
> I thought the clap it was the bell,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> I thought the clapper little hell,
>    I had lain so lang between twa.
>
> As I went o'er my father's lee,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> I thought my head was turned a-jee,
>    I had lain so lang between twa.
>
> As I went up my father's craft,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> The winnie straws they did me fank,
>    I had lain so lang between twa.
>
> As I went burt my father's group,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> I bad farewell to that bull stirk,
>    Because he's lying between twa.
>
> Some cry'd for meat, some cry'd for drink,
>    Green leaves is green O,
> But his mother brought him the winding sheet,
>    He had lain so lang between twa.
>
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Campin  *   11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU,
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> tel 0131 660 4760  *  fax 0870 055 4975  *
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> food intolerance data & recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish
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