On Sat, 20 May 2000 14:57:30 GMT, Jeri Corlew wrote:>
>Cunnla?  http://www.mudcat.org/!!-song99.cfm?stuff=fall99+D+3074138Thank you. Absolutely.That's right, you used to hang out in the same disreputable low dives I did
& would have heard this too.  It was an oft-sung song in the Edinburgh
clubs.The text given is a bit different but the tune's very close.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida                        Boycott South Carolina!

On Sat, 20 May 2000 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT), Ed Cray wrote:>Abby asks a reasonable, if unanswerable question.Certainly an upgrade for me.>An easier way to look at these songs is to group them together by formula.Good.
>
>"Coller Dear" in Abby's message below looks to me at first blush to be a
>cognate of "Barnacle Bill the Sailor."  (Note the first stanza.)In spite of that & all the other similarities, I catch very little
similarity in text or tune to think one evolved from the other.  But who
knows?  One writer could have recalled the sense of the other song & used
that to make his own.>different songs: a "Barnacle Bill" type and an "A-Rovin'" type.Yes, "A-Rovin'" progresses too, up to it's cut-off (!) point.  Takes me back
to my old, old, other unanswerable questions re Circular songs.  A
progrressing song must "decide" like any other story how to end itself.  I
guess it's just a writer's choice - go in a circle (Tree in the Hole) go on
up to the "higest" (Chad-Gad Yo) or or go out sideways (A-Rovin').  Or just
stop.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida                        Boycott South Carolina!

Jamie writes:
"The Golden Vanity" (Child 286) is in Pepys Ballads, which would be a
safe bet for a pre 1690 song, and "Andrew Barton" (Child 167), in the
Percy MS, is another sea ballad that fits your time frame.  I'm not
sure whether the latter has ever been found in tradition, though, if
that's an issue.Helen Hartness Flanders collected 9 versions of Andrew Bardeen or Barton in
New England, one of which appears on my Ballads Thrice Twisted CDMargaret MacArthur

I don't know; there's a lot stuff about railroaders in this novel; she must
have known something.  Guess I need to read a little more Cather
biographies.
Norm>I am out of my league here.  I am neither a literary scholar nor at all
>familiar with Cather's work.  And if you think I am going to comment on
>railroad songs, you -- well, never mind.
>
>I came to know Cather from the fact that she worked as an editor at the
>famed muckraking magazine _McClure's_ in its heyday, 1895-1915.  She
>apparently knew most of the major journalists of her time -- including a
>Chicago up-and-comer by the name of Carl Sandburg.  Now do you think she
>might have gotten something from him?
>
>Ed
>

Can anyone help this poor soul?Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:09:58 -0600
From: "Ruggiero, Tom" <[unmask]>
Reply-To: Computer-assisted Reporting & Research
    <[unmask]>
To: [unmask]
Subject: music in public domain        Does anyone out there have information pertaining to an "e-list" or
"e-lists" of western music that is currently in the public domain? any help
would be appreciated!!                                                tom
Dr. Thomas E. Ruggiero
Communication Dept.
Cotton Memorial, Room 202
University of Texas El Paso
El Paso, TX  79968-0550
Office:(915)747.5762
Fax: (915) 747-5641
Email: [unmask]

Ballad list people may like to hear about some excellent new CDs of British
traditional singers recently issued and all highly recommended. Topic
Records, in London have albums from Sheila Stewart (Scotland), Walter Pardon
(Norfolk), and a re-issue of a classic Sam Larner (Norfolk) Folkways LP. I
suggest you check out their website at www.topicrecords.co.uk.
Musical Traditions have also recently published CDs by George Townshend of
Sussex and a double-CD by Walter Pardon; see www.mustrad.org.uk
Steve Roud

(Shameless Commercial Announcement to Follow:)
They'll all be available very shortly (they've been orderd a copule of
weeks ago, but shipping is notoriously slow) at CAMSCO Music
(800/548-FOLK)On Thu, 25 May 2000, roud wrote:> Ballad list people may like to hear about some excellent new CDs of British
> traditional singers recently issued and all highly recommended. Topic
> Records, in London have albums from Sheila Stewart (Scotland), Walter Pardon
> (Norfolk), and a re-issue of a classic Sam Larner (Norfolk) Folkways LP. I
> suggest you check out their website at www.topicrecords.co.uk.
> Musical Traditions have also recently published CDs by George Townshend of
> Sussex and a double-CD by Walter Pardon; see www.mustrad.org.uk
> Steve Roud
>

Can anyone please supply me with an Email address for the Canadian Folk
Music Society, or their Journal?
Steve Roud

Here are two e-mail addresses:[unmask]    or
[unmask]Lorne Brown
The Ballad Project
Torontoroud wrote:
>
> Can anyone please supply me with an Email address for the Canadian Folk
> Music Society, or their Journal?
> Steve Roud

Dear Listmates,(Sorry if you saw this inquiry in ballads list.)An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
All that is known is:  - title of the song: unknown
  - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
  - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
     or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
  - melody: no discernible oneI translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
but I'm not sure if it is really so.Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?Thanks in advance,Michael E Hishikawa

<<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
All that is known is:  - title of the song: unknown
  - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
  - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
     or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
  - melody: no discernible oneI translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
but I'm not sure if it is really so.Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".Peace.
Paul

Hi-
It's The Highland Muster Roll
 Recorded by Ewan MacColl Ossian 103 CD. You can order it from CAMSCO
Music.On Tue, 30 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:> <<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> All that is known is:
>
>   - title of the song: unknown
>   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
>   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
>      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
>   - melody: no discernible one
>
> I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
> but I'm not sure if it is really so.
>
> Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>
>
> I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
> recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
> issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
> companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
> introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
> given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".
>
> Peace.
> Paul
>

dick greenhaus wrote:
>
> Hi-
> It's The Highland Muster Roll
>  Recorded by Ewan MacColl Ossian 103 CD. You can order it from CAMSCO
> Music.
>
> On Tue, 30 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:
>
> > <<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> > All that is known is:
> >
> >   - title of the song: unknown
> >   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
> >   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
> >      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
> >   - melody: no discernible one
> >
> > I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
> > but I'm not sure if it is really so.
> >
> > Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> > If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>
> >
> > I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
> > recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
> > issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
> > companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
> > introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
> > given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".
> >
> > Peace.
> > Paul
> >I failed to note that Paul Stamler's comment had his return address, not
that of the list, and my comment then went only to him and not the list,
so I repeat:I've run across a very early version of "The Highland Muster Roll" or
"The Chevalier's Muster Roll" in NLS MS 174, where the 'Little' is
missing at the beginning and the song comments "Wat ye wha's comming".
No tune is indicated, and the heading of the song is 'Borlean Mcintosh,
his march into England November 1715'.For texts with tunes see 'The Scots Musical Museum', #591, and J. Hogg's
'Jacobite Relics', I, p. 151, 1819.Bruce OlsonMy website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> dick greenhaus wrote:
> >
> > Hi-
> > It's The Highland Muster Roll
> >  Recorded by Ewan MacColl Ossian 103 CD. You can order it from CAMSCO
> > Music.
> >
> > On Tue, 30 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:
> >
> > > <<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> > > All that is known is:
> > >
> > >   - title of the song: unknown
> > >   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
> > >   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
> > >      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
> > >   - melody: no discernible one
> > >
> > > I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
> > > but I'm not sure if it is really so.
> > >
> > > Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> > > If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>
> > >
> > > I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
> > > recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
> > > issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
> > > companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
> > > introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
> > > given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".
> > >
> > > Peace.
> > > Paul
> > >
>
> I failed to note that Paul Stamler's comment had his return address, not
> that of the list, and my comment then went only to him and not the list,
> so I repeat:
>
> I've run across a very early version of "The Highland Muster Roll" or
> "The Chevalier's Muster Roll" in NLS MS 174, where the 'Little' is
> missing at the beginning and the song comments "Wat ye wha's comming".
> No tune is indicated, and the heading of the song is 'Borlean Mcintosh,
> his march into England November 1715'.
>
> For texts with tunes see 'The Scots Musical Museum', #591, and J. Hogg's
> 'Jacobite Relics', I, p. 151, 1819.
> Bruce OlsonIncidently, the tune for "Highland/ Chevaliers' Muster Roll"
is "Tail Toddle" and ABCs of the versions in 'The Scots Musical Museum'
and Hogg's 'Jacobite Relics' and two much earlier versions ("Fiddle
Faddle" and "Lasses gar your tails toddle") are given in file S2.HTM on
my website.Bruce Olson
--
My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

Bruce Olson wrote:
>
> dick greenhaus wrote:
> >
> > Hi-
> > It's The Highland Muster Roll
> >  Recorded by Ewan MacColl Ossian 103 CD. You can order it from CAMSCO
> > Music.
> >
> > On Tue, 30 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:
> >
> > > <<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> > > All that is known is:
> > >
> > >   - title of the song: unknown
> > >   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
> > >   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
> > >      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
> > >   - melody: no discernible one
> > >
> > > I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
> > > but I'm not sure if it is really so.
> > >
> > > Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> > > If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>
> > >
> > > I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
> > > recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
> > > issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
> > > companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
> > > introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
> > > given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".
> > >
> > > Peace.
> > > Paul
> > >
>
> I failed to note that Paul Stamler's comment had his return address, not
> that of the list, and my comment then went only to him and not the list,
> so I repeat:
>
> I've run across a very early version of "The Highland Muster Roll" or
> "The Chevalier's Muster Roll" in NLS MS 174, where the 'Little' is
> missing at the beginning and the song comments "Wat ye wha's comming".
> No tune is indicated, and the heading of the song is 'Borlean Mcintosh,
> his march into England November 1715'.
>
> For texts with tunes see 'The Scots Musical Museum', #591, and J. Hogg's
> 'Jacobite Relics', I, p. 151, 1819.
>
> Bruce Olson
>
> My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
> href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>Sorry for the error. In 'The Scots Musical Museum' that's page 591, Song
#572.Bruce Olson
--
My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

Ronnie Browne of the Corries in his CD Battle Songs and Ballads has an excellent
version but it goes by the name The Chevalier's Muster Roll. I like this version
because the words seem clearer to my non Scottish ears than does the MacColl
version. The notes  say it is a song from the Jacobite period. Does any one know
what the line that I think goes some thing like old whatcie wa's coming means.Bruce Olson wrote:> Bruce Olson wrote:
> >
> > dick greenhaus wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi-
> > > It's The Highland Muster Roll
> > >  Recorded by Ewan MacColl Ossian 103 CD. You can order it from CAMSCO
> > > Music.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 30 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:
> > >
> > > > <<An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> > > > All that is known is:
> > > >
> > > >   - title of the song: unknown
> > > >   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
> > > >   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
> > > >      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
> > > >   - melody: no discernible one
> > > >
> > > > I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland context,
> > > > but I'm not sure if it is really so.
> > > >
> > > > Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> > > > If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?>>
> > > >
> > > > I'm fairly sure the song is "The Highland Muster Roll", which MacColl
> > > > recorded several times. One recording is on the album "Black and White",
> > > > issued as an LP on the Cooking Vinyl label in the UK, and by various other
> > > > companies on CD. It may still be in print. Incidentally, MacColl used to
> > > > introduce this song by noting that the title was occasionally mistakenly
> > > > given as "The Highland Mustard Roll".
> > > >
> > > > Peace.
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> >
> > I failed to note that Paul Stamler's comment had his return address, not
> > that of the list, and my comment then went only to him and not the list,
> > so I repeat:
> >
> > I've run across a very early version of "The Highland Muster Roll" or
> > "The Chevalier's Muster Roll" in NLS MS 174, where the 'Little' is
> > missing at the beginning and the song comments "Wat ye wha's comming".
> > No tune is indicated, and the heading of the song is 'Borlean Mcintosh,
> > his march into England November 1715'.
> >
> > For texts with tunes see 'The Scots Musical Museum', #591, and J. Hogg's
> > 'Jacobite Relics', I, p. 151, 1819.
> > Bruce Olson
>
> Incidently, the tune for "Highland/ Chevaliers' Muster Roll"
> is "Tail Toddle" and ABCs of the versions in 'The Scots Musical Museum'
> and Hogg's 'Jacobite Relics' and two much earlier versions ("Fiddle
> Faddle" and "Lasses gar your tails toddle") are given in file S2.HTM on
> my website.
>
> Bruce Olson
> --
> My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
> href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>--
George F. Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Commission on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill MA 02494
[unmask]
617. 552.4521
617 552 8649 FAX

On Tue, 30 May 2000 16:24:20 -0500 madaus <[unmask]>
wrote:
> Does any one know
> what the line that I think goes some thing like old whatcie wa's coming means.I believe that you are referring to the line "Little wat ye
wha's coming"? The liner notes in the Ewan MacColl CD say
that "wat" means "know", and "wha's" means "who's". I took
it to be a taunting of the foe (You have no idea how many
great clans are coming to kick your butt; and then the
singer proceeds to list them.)Kathleen--
Conery, Kathleen Ann
[unmask]

Michael EH is looking for the Highland Muster Roll.Ewan MacColl apparently used to sing it as a sound check before his
performances.  It was released on the recording "Black and White; Ewan
MacColl:  the definitive collection" which was released by his children
posthumously in 1990--the Cooking Vinyl label.The lyrics, as I remember them, are:Chorus:
Little what you wa's comin'
Little what you wa's comin'
Little what you wa's comin'
Chalk and tam and all's comin'.Duncan's comin', Donald's comin'
Colin's comin', Ronald's comin'
Dougall's comin', Laughlin's comin'
Alistair and all's comin'Borlin and his men's comin'
The Cameron's and MacLean's comin',
The Gordon's and MacGregor's comin'
All the Danny worsle's comin'.The Laird, the MacIntosh's comin',
MacLeighby's comin', MacDonald's comin'
MacKenzie and MacPherson's comin'
All the wild MacCraw's comin'They gloom, they glower
They look sae big
At ilka stirrup, they'll fell a whig
They'll fricht the words o' the pulpit
For mony a bare arse is comin'Chorus:
Little what you wa's comin'
Little what you wa's comin'
Little what you wa's comin'
MacGilivry o' Drumglass is comin'!
...................................................................
CeltArctic Music/Moira Cameron
4505 Schooldraw Ave.
Yellowknife, NT, X1A 2K3
Canada
http://sites.netscape.net/moirakc/celtarctic_home----- Original Message -----
> Date:    Tue, 30 May 2000 13:40:55 +0900
> From:    Michael EH <[unmask]>
> Subject: Song sought (of MacColl?)
>
> Dear Listmates,
>
> (Sorry if you saw this inquiry in ballads list.)
>
> An acquaintance of mine is searching for a song heard a long time ago.
> All that is known is:
>
>   - title of the song: unknown
>   - singer: possibly Ewan MacColl
>   - content: reciting, rather than singing, the names of the clans,
>      or the chieftains, that were engaged in some battle
>   - melody: no discernible one
>
> I translated this inquiry given me in Japanese in a Scots Highland
context,
> but I'm not sure if it is really so.
>
> Could anyone on the list kindly enlighten me as to where to look?
> If it is really by MacColl, is the recording of the song still available?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Michael E Hishikawa
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BALLAD-L Digest - 26 May 2000 to 29 May 2000 (#2000-119)
> ***************************************************************
>

Words are in the Digital Tradition (www.mudcat.org). To the best of my
knowledge, there are NO known Jacobite songs dating back to the period
involved; they're all mid-1800s or later. (Bruce? Any info?)
dick greenhaus

dick greenhaus wrote:
>
> Words are in the Digital Tradition (www.mudcat.org). To the best of my
> knowledge, there are NO known Jacobite songs dating back to the period
> involved; they're all mid-1800s or later. (Bruce? Any info?)
> dick greenhausI don't consider myself expert in that area, but here are a few
observations.I can only make a rough guess at the date of the NLS MS that contains
"The Highland Muster Roll", and that would be c 1720-1740. There are
actually quite a few real Jacobite songs of the 18th century, and since
they aren't in Gaelic, were probably written by sympathetic lowlanders
(seemingly a rather rare breed). NLS MS Adv. 19.3.44 has about a dozen,
most of which are in Hogg's 'Jacobite Relics' (not all of which is fake
by any means). There are a couple where 'the laddie' in the guise of a
gaberlunzie has to be bonny Prince Charlie's father, as Charlie was
probably still in diapers when they were written."That Geordie reigns in Jamie's stead" to the tune of "Lady Mackintoshes
Reel" in NLS MS 2910, is probably earlier than 1750 (and its burden is
the source of the new title for the tune as "For a' that and a' that").The Scots tune "The Black Highland Laddie" seems to be derived from a
song in the former MS (NLS MS 19.3.44) that commences:
My laddie can fight my laddie can sing
...
His soul was design'd for no less than a king
Such greatness shows in my black Laddie
.. my bonnie black laddie.Bruce O.
--
My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

I think the earliest McColl recording of this song may be on the LP record
THE COLUMBIA LIBRARY OF FOLK AND PRIMITIVE MUSIC, vol. VI. "Folk Songs From
Scotland"
Columbia SL-209, recorded and edited by Alan Lomax with the help of the
MacLeans of Raasay, Hamish Henderson and William Montgomerie.  There's no
date on my copy of the record, but I'm pretty sure it came out in the late
1950s.  Side 1 of this 12" LP is labeled "THE LOWLANDS", and song no. 2 on
that side is "The Chevaliers' Muster Roll,"  although I've heard Ewan sing it
as "The HIGHLAND Muster Roll."Here's what the liner notes have to say about it:
'"The Jacobite rebellions in Scotland produced enough fine songs to fill two
thick volumes of Hogg's "Jacobite Relics".  This song is probably one of
those inspired by the 1717 rebellion, when the Earl of Mar raised King
Jame's [sic] standard in the North. Ewan McColl, the poet, actor, ballad
singer, learnt it from his father, a Perthshire ironmoulder."These notes quote the words as:    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!Donald's comin', Ronald's comin',
Colin's comin', Duncan's comin',
Dougal's comin', Laughlin's comin',
All the wild McCraw's comin'.They look, they glower, they look so big;
At ilka stroke they fell a Whig.
They'll frecht the wuds of the Porkpuds
For many a buttock bare's comin'."    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!
    Little wat ye wha's comin'!(These notes translate "frecht the wuds of the Porkpuds" as "scare the
English."  "Wat"  is the dialectal spelling of "wot,"  an old word that means
"know." I've heard Ewan sing "Little KEN ye wha's comin'.")Cordially,Sam
La Jolla, CA

HI-
I stand (gratefully) corrected.
dickOn Wed, 31 May 2000, Bruce Olson wrote:> dick greenhaus wrote:
> >
> > Words are in the Digital Tradition (www.mudcat.org). To the best of my
> > knowledge, there are NO known Jacobite songs dating back to the period
> > involved; they're all mid-1800s or later. (Bruce? Any info?)
> > dick greenhaus
>
> I don't consider myself expert in that area, but here are a few
> observations.
>
> I can only make a rough guess at the date of the NLS MS that contains
> "The Highland Muster Roll", and that would be c 1720-1740. There are
> actually quite a few real Jacobite songs of the 18th century, and since
> they aren't in Gaelic, were probably written by sympathetic lowlanders
> (seemingly a rather rare breed). NLS MS Adv. 19.3.44 has about a dozen,
> most of which are in Hogg's 'Jacobite Relics' (not all of which is fake
> by any means). There are a couple where 'the laddie' in the guise of a
> gaberlunzie has to be bonny Prince Charlie's father, as Charlie was
> probably still in diapers when they were written.
>
> "That Geordie reigns in Jamie's stead" to the tune of "Lady Mackintoshes
> Reel" in NLS MS 2910, is probably earlier than 1750 (and its burden is
> the source of the new title for the tune as "For a' that and a' that").
>
> The Scots tune "The Black Highland Laddie" seems to be derived from a
> song in the former MS (NLS MS 19.3.44) that commences:
> My laddie can fight my laddie can sing
> ...
> His soul was design'd for no less than a king
> Such greatness shows in my black Laddie
> .. my bonnie black laddie.
>
> Bruce O.
> --
> My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
> href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>
>

Bruce Olson wrote:<<Incidently, the tune for "Highland/ Chevaliers' Muster Roll"
is "Tail Toddle" >>Which, just to bring the discussion almost full circle, was MacColl's
*other* favorite tune for sound checks. Very good it was for testing the
hall, too -- if you could understand those lyrics, at the speed he sang
them, you'd probably understand the whole concert.Peace.
Paul

Sam Hinton wrote:<<I think the earliest McColl recording of this song may be on the LP record
THE COLUMBIA LIBRARY OF FOLK AND PRIMITIVE MUSIC, vol. VI. "Folk Songs From
Scotland" Columbia SL-209, recorded and edited by Alan Lomax with the help
of the
MacLeans of Raasay, Hamish Henderson and William Montgomerie.  There's no
date on my copy of the record, but I'm pretty sure it came out in the late
1950s.  >>That LP has been reissued on CD by Rounder, as part of their massive
retrospective of Lomax's work. They quietly excised the word "Columbia" from
the title. So far England, Scotland and Ireland have been reissued.Peace.
Paul

Dear all who have responded to my inquiry,Thank you very much indeed. I'm going to forward your replies
to my acquaintance and, as I don't have that MacColl album myself,
I'm going to buy it.With every best wish,Michael E Hishikawa,
Osaka, Japan.
http://www.lit.kobe-u.ac.jp/~hishika/20c_poet.htm
---------------------

In the absence of definitive information regarding authorship, a useful
second test is to see if any other versions have turned up anywhere. Given
the tens of thousands of traditional songs noted in the U.S., it is always
suspicious if a song seems unique, and this, as far as I can see, is the
case with this song.
On the question of copyright, the song is copyrighted to the publishers  in
Niles' Songs of the Hill-Folk (G. Schirmer, 1934) - how long do the
publishers' rights last in the U.S.?
Steve Roud----- Original Message -----
From: Donald A. Duncan <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 4:12 PM
Subject: Wonder As I Wander?> Question here from a friend.  I don't expect answers on the copyright
> issue, but I'd be glad of references to search for answers to questions
> like this.  Did Niles write the song?
>
> ---
>
> We are wondering about the John Jacob Niles "I Wonder As I Wander." I
> always understood that Niles wrote it, although he claimed at first that
> he collected it, and then he later owned up to being its composer, or
> should we say he claimed authorship. First of all, is this accurate? and
> second, how does the outcome of this story affect the copyright picture?
>  I assume he forfeited any legal claims on it by saying originally that
> it was in the folk tradition, but I'd love to get a more authoritative
reading.
>
> ---
>
> -Don Duncan

On Mon, 1 May 2000 16:25:38 +0100, roud wrote:>In the absence of definitive information regarding authorship, a useful
>second test is to see if any other versions have turned up anywhere. Given
>the tens of thousands of traditional songs noted in the U.S., it is always
>suspicious if a song seems unique, and this, as far as I can see, is the
>case with this song.
>On the question of copyright, the song is copyrighted to the publishers  in
>Niles' Songs of the Hill-Folk (G. Schirmer, 1934) - how long do the
>publishers' rights last in the U.S.?But...That's my understanding, too.  But as to copyright, that's another thing.
As you'll know, many, many PD songs have been copyright.  This is no new
thing, it's been going on hundreds of years.  I was curious myself how much
this might be true for such a popular "folk" song as this.  Have a look
yourself at ASCAP
http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?searchstr=I%20Wonder%20As%20I%20Wander&search_in=t&search_det=t,s,w,p,b&dsn=ws_ascap&start=1&mode=results&search_type=exact&results_pp=25&requesttimeout=600
(If that was a temp page & didn't work, try
http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm and search)It's been copyright many times, indeed.Then you may also wish to search there on Niles John Jacob and you'll find
he is the credited writer for many songs; such as Barbara Allen, Careless
Love & Death of Queen Jane!  I'm pleased to see he also wrote Froggie Went
A-courting because I generally refer to that as one of the oldest songs
ever copyright (1580) and still in popular use.Thing is, it cuts both was - forged folk songs and copyright PD songs.-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida                        Boycott South Carolina!

>  From [unmask] Sun Apr 23 20:02:21 2000
>  Date:         Sun, 23 Apr 2000 17:02:17 -0700
>  From: Ed Cray <[unmask]>
>  Subject:      Cautionary Words
>  To: [unmask]>  (I, for one, went looking for early tunes to "Barbara Allen," and was
>  stymied because everyone assumed the tune(s) was/were so well known as not
>  to need reprinting.)I recently heard what was obviously (to me) a close version of the most
familiar (to me) Barbara Allen tune, but the words were in Scottish Gaelic
so I'm not sure if the song was about BA or some other subject (in my
listening experience the Irish usually didn't translate English-language
ballads into Irish, they sang them in English; I didn't think the
Scottish-Gaelic speakers did a lot of translation either, so I don't
know if this is a rare case of translation or a completely different set
of words).  I think the song is on a recent collection of Scottish-Gaelic
singers on Greentrax but it might have been by a singer on a different
record the DJ was profiling.  Sorry.  I'll eventually hear it again &
write down the refs.

Hi folks:Two friends of mine, midwestern performers Paul and Win Grace, are going on
a long-delayed honeymoon in France this month. (How long was it delayed?
Long enough for their first daughter to graduate from college. But I
digress.) Any suggestions of places they might go to hear traditional music?
(Or see traditional dance?)(Please note: I'm sending this to three lists; sorry for the cross-posting,
but it seems like the best way to reach as many folks as possible. Watch
reply addresses if you want to save bandwidth.)Peace.
Paul

Thanks for the responses on this.  It hadn't occurred to me that ASCAP
had on-line search capability.  Looks like permission is required (and
royalties?) to record it.Steve, I don't remember the actual numbers off-hand, but the recent
change in US copyright law extended copyrights well beyond the previous
75-year limit (to 99?), so a 1934 copyright, if properly renewed, will
be in force for some time.  [The extension applies to any copyright
registered after Jan. 1, 1923.]-Don Duncan

A friend sent me this:> Perhaps you've heard of this poem? It might also be known as Godspeed the
> Plough. My aunt recently told me of it, one of her favorites, which she calls
> The Farmer's Arms. She had it in the form of an old mug with the poem printed
> on the side, although it wouldn't surprise me if it had been a song. Sounds
> like something that might be useful between-songs filler in future, if not
> for Sunday's concert.
>
> Let the wealthy and great
> Roll in splendour and state
> I envy them not, I declare it
> I eat my own lamb
> My own chickens and ham
> I shear my own fleece and I wear it
> I have lawns, I have bowers
> I have fruits, I have flowers
> The lark is my morning alarmer
> So jolly boys now
> Here's Godspeed the plough
> Long life and success to the farmer
>
> It was printed all in capitals with no punctuation. "Farmers Arms, England"
> was printed on the bottom of the mug; on the side opposite the poem was
> printed "God Speed the Plough" at top, with "Industry Produceth Wealth" on a
> ribbon at bottom with images of various farm implements between.This is in Digitrad as "Godspeed the Plow" with the following additional
verses but no tune or provenance - not even who submitted it.Godspeed the Plow...By plowing and sowing
By reaping and mowing
All nature provides me with plenty
With a cellar well stored
And a bountiful board
And my garden affords every daintyFor here I am king
I can dance, drink and sing
Let no one approach as a stranger
I'll hunt when it's quiet
Come on, let us try it
Dull thinking drives anyone crazy...Does anyone know a tune to this, or whether it was actually sung, or the
source of the original?  It seems composed; was it a broadside?-Don Duncan

<<Does anyone know a tune to this, or whether it was actually sung, or the
source of the original?  It seems composed; was it a broadside?>>Probably. The version I have, called "I have Parks, I Have Hounds", was
recorded by the Mellstock Band on their CD "Songs of Thomas Hardy's Wessex"
(Saydisc CD-SDL 410). It, in turn, was collected by Gardiner in 1907 from
Frank Gamblin, aged 65, in the Portsmouth Workhouse. It's quoted in Hardy's
"Tess of the D'Urbervilles".Peace.
Paul

It is difficult to get a handle on this, as 'God Speed the Plough' or 'Speed
the Plough' or 'To Speed the Plough' was such a well-known saying that few
authorities have bothered to notice it, and although I have seen it numerous
times I've never taken a note of it. It appears as a caption to all sorts of
agricultural scenes on countless engravings, samplers, well-dressings,
presentation plates, jugs and other ceramics, and so on, from the 19th and
20th centuries and probably earlier. It was painted on the walls of the barn
for the harvest home, and numerous poets, playrights and novelists have used
it as a title. There is an English country dance called Speed the Plough,
and a well-known traditional tune.
Several traditional songs bear the title (Cecil Sharp collected two) the
most common is published in Roy Palmer's Everyman's Book of Country Songs
(p.49). At least three other different songs appear on
broadsides/songsters - the oldest being a 17th century ballad sheet 'God
Speed the Plow and Bless the Corn Mow' in the Euing Collection (Glasgow
Univ.), and others in Universal Songster Vol.2 (c1823), p.238, and The Model
Song Book (c1848) p.63.
However, having said all that, none of them have exactly the same words as
quoted on aunty's jug, so I'm no closer to identifying that.
Steve Roud----- Original Message -----
From: Donald A. Duncan <[unmask]>
To: <[unmask]>
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 5:37 PM
Subject: Godspeed the Plow> A friend sent me this:
>
>
> > Perhaps you've heard of this poem? It might also be known as Godspeed
the
> > Plough. My aunt recently told me of it, one of her favorites, which she
calls
> > The Farmer's Arms. She had it in the form of an old mug with the poem
printed
> > on the side, although it wouldn't surprise me if it had been a song.
Sounds
> > like something that might be useful between-songs filler in future, if
not
> > for Sunday's concert.
> >
> > Let the wealthy and great
> > Roll in splendour and state
> > I envy them not, I declare it
> > I eat my own lamb
> > My own chickens and ham
> > I shear my own fleece and I wear it
> > I have lawns, I have bowers
> > I have fruits, I have flowers
> > The lark is my morning alarmer
> > So jolly boys now
> > Here's Godspeed the plough
> > Long life and success to the farmer
> >
> > It was printed all in capitals with no punctuation. "Farmers Arms,
England"
> > was printed on the bottom of the mug; on the side opposite the poem was
> > printed "God Speed the Plough" at top, with "Industry Produceth Wealth"
on a
> > ribbon at bottom with images of various farm implements between.
>
>
> This is in Digitrad as "Godspeed the Plow" with the following additional
> verses but no tune or provenance - not even who submitted it.
>
>
> Godspeed the Plow
>
> ...
>
> By plowing and sowing
> By reaping and mowing
> All nature provides me with plenty
> With a cellar well stored
> And a bountiful board
> And my garden affords every dainty
>
> For here I am king
> I can dance, drink and sing
> Let no one approach as a stranger
> I'll hunt when it's quiet
> Come on, let us try it
> Dull thinking drives anyone crazy
>
> ...
>
> Does anyone know a tune to this, or whether it was actually sung, or the
> source of the original?  It seems composed; was it a broadside?
>
> -Don Duncan

In a message dated 05/05/2000  18:54:14, you write:<< > > Let the wealthy and great
 > > Roll in splendour and state
 > > I envy them not, I declare it
 > > I eat my own lamb
 > > My own chickens and ham
 > > I shear my own fleece and I wear it
 > > I have lawns, I have bowers
 > > I have fruits, I have flowers
 > > The lark is my morning alarmer
 > > So jolly boys now
 > > Here's Godspeed the plough
 > > Long life and success to the farmer >>Colm Ó Lochlainn - Irish Street Ballads (Dublin, 1939, later Pan Books, 
London) page 60. "The Jolly Farmer"
The lines quoted are the last four from each of the last two of the four 
stanzas given.John Moulden

In a message dated 05/05/2000  18:54:14, you write:<< > > Let the wealthy and great
 > > Roll in splendour and state
 > > I envy them not, I declare it
 > > I eat my own lamb
 > > My own chickens and ham
 > > I shear my own fleece and I wear it
 > > I have lawns, I have bowers
 > > I have fruits, I have flowers
 > > The lark is my morning alarmer
 > > So jolly boys now
 > > Here's Godspeed the plough
 > > Long life and success to the farmer >>I should have said the lines in "Irish Street Ballads" corresponded
approximately; they are not identical, but are very similar.John Moulden

roud wrote:
>> It appears as a caption to all sorts of
> agricultural scenes on countless engravings, samplers, well-dressings,
> presentation plates, jugs and other ceramics, and so on, from the 19th and
> 20th centuries and probably earlier. It was painted on the walls of the barn
> for the harvest home, and numerous poets, playrights and novelists have used
> it as a title.Interesting, particularly the painting on the walls of the barn for
harvest home.  Any more on that custom?> There is an English country dance called Speed the Plough,
> and a well-known traditional tune.I know it well, but the meters are totally different, so there doesn't
appear to be any connection.> However, having said all that, none of them have exactly the same words as
> quoted on aunty's jug, so I'm no closer to identifying that.Well, it may have started life as a poem, or even a toast.  No guarantee
we'll find the original.  The second and third verses in Digitrad have a
little different flavor, and less polish, than the first and last, which
were quoted on the mug.Paul Stamler wrote:
>
> Probably. The version I have, called "I have Parks, I Have Hounds", was
> recorded by the Mellstock Band on their CD "Songs of Thomas Hardy's Wessex"
> (Saydisc CD-SDL 410). It, in turn, was collected by Gardiner in 1907 from
> Frank Gamblin, aged 65, in the Portsmouth Workhouse.This may be the version Caroline Paton sings - would that be Gary Gard(i)ner?> It's quoted in Hardy's
> "Tess of the D'Urbervilles".Quoted as text or only by title?-Don

I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
Many thanks
George
-- ___________________
George Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
(617) 552-4521
[unmask]

George:Do you have any of the Irish (stage?) songs of the 19th C. about laboring
men such as "No Irish Need Apply"?Ed

In a message dated 08/05/2000  17:42:22,  [unmask] writes:<< National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy >>One for Ed Cray's attention here. Do you think they might grant aid your next
bawdy song book?John Moulden

John, and Others:Truth to tell, I was a kid when the backshop at the printing plant pulled
that one on me -- just to let me know who's boss.  The linotype operator
waited until he came on a line like: "She was seen publicly
demonstrating" and dropped the "l" deliberately.  When I failed to catch
it, they corrected it, embarrassing me no end for missing it in the first
place, and for saving me the embarrassment had it actually run in the
paper.EdOn Mon, 8 May 2000 [unmask] wrote:> In a message dated 08/05/2000  17:42:22,  [unmask] writes:
>
> << National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy >>
>
> One for Ed Cray's attention here. Do you think they might grant aid your next
> bawdy song book?
>
> John Moulden
>

William Hullfish published The Canaller's Songbook in 1987 (American
Canal and Transportation Centre, York, PA, which contains at least 30
canal songs.
Lorne Brown
The Ballad Project
TorontoGeorge Madaus wrote:
>
> I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
> 60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
> the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
> right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
> etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
> have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
> Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
> appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
> the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
> Many thanks
> George
> -- ___________________
> George Madaus
> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
> Senior Research Fellow
> National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy
> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
> Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
> Boston College
> Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
> (617) 552-4521
> [unmask]

Woody Guthrie's "Hard Travellin'" would fit the bill ... Lead Belly's
"Can't You Line 'Em?" Jerry Go and Ile That Car" is a Canadian song,
about trains.
Lorne Brown
The Ballad Project
TorontoGeorge Madaus wrote:
>
> I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
> 60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
> the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
> right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
> etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
> have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
> Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
> appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
> the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
> Many thanks
> George
> -- ___________________
> George Madaus
> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
> Senior Research Fellow
> National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy
> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
> Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
> Boston College
> Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
> (617) 552-4521
> [unmask]

On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 01:41:36PM -0400, George Madaus wrote:> I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
> 60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
> the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
> right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
> etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
> have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
> Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
> appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
> the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.        Hmm ...one comes to mind that I have not seen in the responses
which have already arrived.  It started (I think) as some xerography
(photocopied humor), and was turned into a song somewhat more recently.        The title is "Why Paddy's Not At Work Today", and at least one
setting to music is by Mike Cross, under the title "Dear Boss".  I have
it on the recording _Best of The Funny Stuff_.  Sugar Hill Records
(SH-CD-1010).        Looking on the Digital Tradition, I find it under the title:        WHY PADDY'S NOT AT WORK TODAY (Excuse Note)        The language suggests a UK origin, but since the protagonist is
supposedly Irish, that is not a certainty.        Enjoy,
                DoN.--
 Email:   <[unmask]>   | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
    My Concertina web page:        | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
        --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

As a journalist put it in 1881 in a list of "Hints for English
Composition": "Honor the foreman and the proofreader.  They can slaughter
you, and hardly know how they do it themselves."In this case, though, it sounds more like a common specimen of occupational
folklore: the practical joke.  Very interesting.BruceAt 11:45 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote:
>John, and Others:
>
>Truth to tell, I was a kid when the backshop at the printing plant pulled
>that one on me -- just to let me know who's boss.  The linotype operator
>waited until he came on a line like: "She was seen publicly
>demonstrating" and dropped the "l" deliberately.  When I failed to catch
>it, they corrected it, embarrassing me no end for missing it in the first
>place, and for saving me the embarrassment had it actually run in the
>paper.
>
>Ed
>
>On Mon, 8 May 2000 [unmask] wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 08/05/2000  17:42:22,  [unmask] writes:
>>
>> << National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy >>
>>
>> One for Ed Cray's attention here. Do you think they might grant aid your
next
>> bawdy song book?
>>
>> John Moulden
>>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce E. Baker
Chapel Hill, NC
http://members.tripod.com/~Bruce_E_Baker
[unmask]

<<Woody Guthrie's "Hard Travellin'" would fit the bill ... Lead Belly's
"Can't You Line 'Em?" Jerry Go and Ile That Car" is a Canadian song,
about trains.>>Not so sure about the latter being Canadian; according to the Ballad Index
it's found chiefly in the south and southwest USA. It's earliest date is
1884; Sandburg (1927) says:"In 1884 Charles Lummis hear Gunnysack Riley sing this at Albuquerque, New
Mexico. Later, as an editor, he wanted the verses and put the matter up to
Santa Fe officials, who sent out a general order covering the whole system,
calling for verses to Jerry Go An' Ile That Car. A lost song was dug up..."Illinois singer Art Thieme has recorded an excellent version of "Jerry, Go
and Ile That Car" on his CD "The Older I Get, The Better I Was" (Waterbug
Records).Then, of course, there's "Workin' on a Building", but that's a metaphor.(TEACHER: What's a metaphor?   COUNTRY BOY: Feedin' cows.)Peace.
Paul

I picked up a recording at the Kentucky Railway Museum last year that has a
couple including what sounds like a negro work song called "Can't you Line
the Track".  I'll try to remember to check the particulars when I get home.
Also on that trip, I picked up a book entitled "Scalded To Death By the
Steam:  Songs of Railway Disasters and their Stories".  I never realized
there were so many railway disaster songs, much less so many versions of
the Wreck of the old 97.  It's worth a look, if you can find it.  Miki>I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
>60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
>the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
>right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
>etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
>have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
>Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
>appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
>the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
>Many thanks
>George

Miki
Many thanks. I'll see if I can track it down.
GeorgeMiki Thompson wrote:> I picked up a recording at the Kentucky Railway Museum last year that has a
> couple including what sounds like a negro work song called "Can't you Line
> the Track".  I'll try to remember to check the particulars when I get home.
> Also on that trip, I picked up a book entitled "Scalded To Death By the
> Steam:  Songs of Railway Disasters and their Stories".  I never realized
> there were so many railway disaster songs, much less so many versions of
> the Wreck of the old 97.  It's worth a look, if you can find it.  Miki
>
> >I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
> >60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
> >the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
> >right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
> >etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
> >have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
> >Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
> >appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
> >the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
> >Many thanks
> >George--___________________
George Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
(617) 552-4521
[unmask]

Hi-
The Digital Tradition (www.mudcat.org) lists over 500 songs that have the
keyword work (actually @work).

We have just completed about another 50 with more each
day to come...
Stop on in and enjoy!
This is the Main index of all the sangs....
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5863/alsang.html
The first page is down today for server maintenance but
due up soon
It is at-
http://www.carleton.ca/~dc920/HomePage.Priests.htmlAnother good place to start your exploration....when its
up!Conrad
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Do You want to know more? Simply send an e.mail to this
address-
[unmask]
Check out Our Guide to the Traditional Irish Wedding and
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http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/bladocelt/hutbook.html
and
http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~cbladey/hutmanA.html
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server still down but when it gets back the
front page to the beuk of Newcassel Sangs is-
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~dc920/HomePage.priests.htmlConradConrad Bladey ***Peasant**** wrote:
>
> We have just completed about another 50 with more each
> day to come...
> Stop on in and enjoy!
> This is the Main index of all the sangs....
> http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5863/alsang.html
> The first page is down today for server maintenance but
> due up soon
> It is at-
> http://www.carleton.ca/~dc920/HomePage.Priests.html
>
> Another good place to start your exploration....when its
> up!
>
> Conrad
> --
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> Do You want to know more? Simply send an e.mail to this
> address-
> [unmask]
> Check out Our Guide to the Traditional Irish Wedding and
> our Guide
> to the Traditional Irish Wake and our Teatime Companion-
> http://members.xoom.com/bladocelt/sumord.html More
> information:
> http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/bladocelt/hutbook.html
> and
> http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~cbladey/hutmanA.html
> To subscribe to
> storyevent-http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/storyevent
> <center>
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Do You want to know more? Simply send an e.mail to this
address-
[unmask]
Check out Our Guide to the Traditional Irish Wedding and
our Guide
to the Traditional Irish Wake and our Teatime Companion-
http://members.xoom.com/bladocelt/sumord.html More
information:
http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/bladocelt/hutbook.html
and
http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~cbladey/hutmanA.html
To subscribe to
storyevent-http://www.egroups.com/subscribe/storyevent
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On Mon, 8 May 2000 13:41:36 -0400, George Madaus wrote:>I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
>60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
>the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British IslesDepending on how narrow or broad your interest is, you can probably find
_thousands_ of such songs.  I'd start with the Digital Tradition folk song
database ("Don't look for songs without it.")
http://www.mudcat.org/folksearch.htmlDo a search on key words such as build*, carpenter, mason, and you will
soon come up with hundreds.  They'll range from religious - or
quasi-religious as in the Cherry Tree (Then Joseph was a carpenter) to
bawdy as in FOLLOW THE BAND (ie My Husband's a Mason) to "sweet" & singable
as in The Bricklayer's Dream.Enjoy the project!

<<I picked up a recording at the Kentucky Railway Museum last year that has
a
couple including what sounds like a negro work song called "Can't you Line
the Track".  I'll try to remember to check the particulars when I get home.
Also on that trip, I picked up a book entitled "Scalded To Death By the
Steam:  Songs of Railway Disasters and their Stories".  I never realized
there were so many railway disaster songs, much less so many versions of
the Wreck of the old 97.  It's worth a look, if you can find it.  Miki>>Then there's the Library of Congress recording "Railroad Songs and Ballads",
also newly-issued on Rounder.Peace.
Paul

DoN Nichols wrote:<<        Hmm ...one comes to mind that I have not seen in the responses
which have already arrived.  It started (I think) as some xerography
(photocopied humor), and was turned into a song somewhat more recently.
        The title is "Why Paddy's Not At Work Today", and at least one
setting to music is by Mike Cross, under the title "Dear Boss".  I have
it on the recording _Best of The Funny Stuff_.  Sugar Hill Records
(SH-CD-1010).
        Looking on the Digital Tradition, I find it under the title:
        WHY PADDY'S NOT AT WORK TODAY (Excuse Note)
        The language suggests a UK origin, but since the protagonist is
supposedly Irish, that is not a certainty.>>It's in Irish dialect, but was apparently written by an English music-hall
performer ca. 1923. Another title is "The Sick Note". It's circulated, as
you say, in the form of xerography, appeared in a Blue Cross employees'
newsletter as "Most Unusual Claim of the Month", and back when I was the
teaching assistant to a physics professor, was assigned as an exam question
(compute accelerations, momenta, etc.).Peace.
Paul

DickMany thanks
Georgedick greenhaus wrote:> Hi-
> The Digital Tradition (www.mudcat.org) lists over 500 songs that have the
> keyword work (actually @work).--___________________
George Madaus
Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
Senior Research Fellow
National Board on Educational Testing and Public Policy
Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
Boston College
Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
(617) 552-4521
[unmask]

Besides Hullfish's book, there's Chloea Thompson, "Scenes and Songs of the
Ohio-Erie Canal," Ohio Historical Soc., 1971.
Norm Cohen-----Original Message-----
From: Lorne Brown <[unmask]>
To: [unmask] <[unmask]>
Date: Monday, May 08, 2000 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: Songs about construction workers>William Hullfish published The Canaller's Songbook in 1987 (American
>Canal and Transportation Centre, York, PA, which contains at least 30
>canal songs.
>Lorne Brown
>The Ballad Project
>Toronto
>
>George Madaus wrote:
>>
>> I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
>> 60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
>> the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
>> right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
>> etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
>> have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
>> Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.  I would be very
>> appreciative to learn of other American songs in this genre. Songs from
>> the British Isles would also be welcome to check against what I have.
>> Many thanks
>> George
>> -- ___________________
>> George Madaus
>> Boisi Professor of Education and Public Policy
>> Senior Research Fellow
>> National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy
>> Center for the Study of Testing Evaluation and Educational Policy
>> Peter S. and Carolyn A. Lynch School of Education
>> Boston College
>> Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
>> (617) 552-4521
>> [unmask]
>

Ed,Reminds me of when we were working on _Stars of Country Music_.  Bill
Malone had referred to Tanya Tucker's "Would You Lay with Me in a Field of
Stone," which came back in galleys from the University's print shop (in
the good old days when they still used hot metal) as "Would You Lay Me in
a Field of Stone."  We wondered if they wondered if we would notice.JudyJudith McCulloh
Assistant Director and Executive Editor
University of Illinois Press
1325 South Oak Street
Champaign, IL  61820-6975
(217) 244-4681
[unmask]On Mon, 8 May 2000, Ed Cray wrote:> John, and Others:
>
> Truth to tell, I was a kid when the backshop at the printing plant pulled
> that one on me -- just to let me know who's boss.  The linotype operator
> waited until he came on a line like: "She was seen publicly
> demonstrating" and dropped the "l" deliberately.  When I failed to catch
> it, they corrected it, embarrassing me no end for missing it in the first
> place, and for saving me the embarrassment had it actually run in the
> paper.
>
> Ed
>
> On Mon, 8 May 2000 [unmask] wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 08/05/2000  17:42:22,  [unmask] writes:
> >
> > << National Board on Educational Testing and Pubic Policy >>
> >
> > One for Ed Cray's attention here. Do you think they might grant aid your next
> > bawdy song book?
> >
> > John Moulden

Hi folks:Just heard about this new CD and book; no idea whether it's good or not, or
even if the songs are traditional, but thought it would be worth letting
y'all know about it.Peace.
Paul"The Rough But Honest Miner"  -- Reclaimed music from BC's goldrush years
Richard Wright & Cathryn Wellner with Ken Hamm and the Wake-Up Jacob Band
John & Michelle Law, Willie P. Bennett on harmonica.
Running time over 1 hour,  $24.95 [US $17.95]
Music of the Gold Rush - a companion book to the CD with the stories behind
the songs and the complete lyrics. $12.95 [US $9.95]  Package price: $32.95
[US $25]
Winter Quarters Press, Box 15 Miocene, Williams Lake, B.C. V2G 2P3
250-296-4432 Fax: 250-296-4429  e-mail [unmask]

Judith wrote:<<Reminds me of when we were working on _Stars of Country Music_.  Bill
Malone had referred to Tanya Tucker's "Would You Lay with Me in a Field of
Stone," which came back in galleys from the University's print shop (in
the good old days when they still used hot metal) as "Would You Lay Me in
a Field of Stone."  We wondered if they wondered if we would notice.>>Well, of course you would notice. It messes up the meter.Peace.
Paul

According to Herbert Asbury, in "The French Quarter" (NY, Knopf, 1936), p 412:"Fred Bessel, a balladeer of considerable local renown, author of 'The Mud
Run Disaster,' 'The Fatal Electric Wires,' and 'The Wilkesbarre Cyclone,'
wrote a song called 'The Hennessey Murder,' which was printed on a
black-bordered sheet and circulated by the thousands of copies."This was in New Orleans, LA, in 1890, when  David C. Hennessey, Chief of
Police, was killed.  In early 1891 a trial of Mafia members accused of his
murder was held and all were either aquitted or received no verdict due to
a hung jury.  The next day (March 14, 1891) a mob stormed the jail and
killed 11 of the accused Italian-Americans.  Fred Bessel then produced
another song, "Hennessey Avenged!"Olive Woolley Burt's "American Murder Ballads" (NY, Oxford, 1958), pp
165-166, says"In the fall of 1930 my husband came home from the Silver King mine in Park
City, Utah, with the ballad of 'The Hennessey Murder,' which was sung in
the 'dry room' at the mine."  A tune is given with the same text as Asbury.
Burt's daughter later found "Hennessey Avenged" in a library in New Orleans.This raises several questions.Has anyone studied Fred Bessel and his ballads?  (Anyone out there from New
Orleans?)If not, does anyone know anything about them?Could he have written "Ella Speed"?  (The time frame is right.  She was
killed in 1894.  The publicity is right, too.  Her death was covered
sensationally in The Daily Picayune and probably in other local newspapers.
While most versions of "Ella Speed" do not point to a polished poet - using
"done" where it should be "did", for example, to rhyme with "fun", "gun",
or "one" - some constructions in some versions are a bit more sophisticated
- "Martin was a man, he was neither long or slender, Everybody knew he was
a barroom tender" ... "'Twas something Martin had never done."  All of the
recovered versions could have stemmed from a more literary creation.)john garst    [unmask]

According to James J. Geller in "Famous Songs and Their Stories" (NY,
Macaulay, 1931),"The horse racing season had just terminated in San Francisco" when May
Irwin got on a train with Charles E. Trevathan, headed for Chicago.  This
was in 1894.  On that train Irwin asked Trevathan to put words to a tune
that he played on his guitar.  He obliged a few days after they had arrived
in Chicago, handing her "The Bully Song," now usually called "The Bully of
the Town," which became a great hit for Irwin the following year.If this account is true, then the timing is critical for the hypothesis
that "Ella Speed" was the original for "The Bully Song."  Ella Speed was
killed on September 3, 1894.  How can I find out when the horse racing
season ended in San Francisco that year?Thanks.john garst    [unmask]

In a message dated 5/11/00 12:44:02 PM EST, [unmask] writes:> If this account is true, then the timing is critical for the hypothesis
>  that "Ella Speed" was the original for "The Bully Song."  Ella Speed was
>  killed on September 3, 1894.  How can I find out when the horse racing
>  season ended in San Francisco that year?Check the morgue at a San Francisco paper.Peace.
Paul

John Garst wrote:
>
> According to James J. Geller in "Famous Songs and Their Stories" (NY,
> Macaulay, 1931),
>
> "The horse racing season had just terminated in San Francisco" when May
> Irwin got on a train with Charles E. Trevathan, headed for Chicago.  This
> was in 1894.  On that train Irwin asked Trevathan to put words to a tune
> that he played on his guitar.  He obliged a few days after they had arrived
> in Chicago, handing her "The Bully Song," now usually called "The Bully of
> the Town," which became a great hit for Irwin the following year.
>
> If this account is true, then the timing is critical for the hypothesis
> that "Ella Speed" was the original for "The Bully Song."  Ella Speed was
> killed on September 3, 1894.  How can I find out when the horse racing
> season ended in San Francisco that year?
>
> Thanks.
>
> john garst    [unmask][Levy sheet music collection - levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu. Search
on 'Bully']Levy collection, Box 143, Item 008, "De New Bully", 1896, claims to be
the only genuine publication of May Irwin's song in the "Widow Jones".
Words by Will Carleton and music by J. W. Cavanagh.This is contradicted by May Irwin's handwritten statement on
copies of two other issues of 1896- Box 142, Item 046 (& 047) and
Item 048. Words and music by Charles E. Trevathan.I don't have reference works at hand to date "Widow Jones". (And I
haven't compared the tunes for the songs.)Bruce Olson--
My website: www.erols.com/olsonw <A
href="http://www.erols.com/olsonw"> Click </a>

In a message dated 11/05/2000  17:44:02, you write:<< How can I find out when the horse racing
 season ended in San Francisco that year? >>Newspapers - do you know anyone in San Francisco?John Moulden

This is to announce the release of
The Roving JewelThe Roving Jewel is a CD compilation of tracks from Paddy Tutty's two
early classic recordings of traditional songs and ballads from Britain,
Ireland and North America. The album's acoustic live sound features
mostly solo performances by Paddy Tutty on vocals, fretted dulcimer,
guitar and fiddle.
The original recordings were Who Liveth So Merry produced by David Essigin 1986 and Paddy Tutty co-produced with Ken Hamm in 1983.
Tracks from the first cassette "Paddy Tutty" have been remixed.  All
tracks were remastered by Richard Harrow in April 2000.Track listing1. Katy Cruel
2. Southwind
3. The Blind Harper (Child #192)
4. Annachie Gordon (Child #239)
5. Black Sara (Lorraine Lee Hammond) / The Black Nag
6. Who Liveth So Merry
7. Rolling Home Drunk
8. The World Turned Upside Down (L.Rosselson)
9. Bonny Portmore
10. Low Down in the Broom
11. The Bonny Lass of Anglesey (Child #220)
12. The Hare's Lament
13. The Lass of Loch Royal (Child #76)
14. The Dancers of Stanton Drew (Holland/Parker)(Traditional unless otherwise noted.)Running time: 69:29The Roving Jewel is now available by mail order through my
website at:
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/wuidland/recordings.htm
or contact me directly.Thanks for your time,Paddy
* * *  * *  *  *  *Paddy Tutty
Prairie Druid Music
219 - 11th St. E.
Saskatoon SK S7N 0E5
phone 306 665-0864

Folks:I pass this on for those who have an interest.Ed---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:58:58 -0500
From: "Mott, Jim" <[unmask]>
Reply-To: "NEWDEAL: USA, 1929-1952" <[unmask]>
To: [unmask]
Subject: NEW DEAL - Roy Acuff, singer (& GOP candidate)Acuff, Roy (15 Sept. 1903-23 Nov. 1992),  country music singer
and composer, was born Roy Claxton Acuff in Maynardsville, Tennessee,
just a few miles north of Knoxville in a spur of the Great Smoky
Mountains, the son of Neil Acuff, an attorney and pastor, and
Ida Florence Carr. The family moved to Fountain City, a suburb
of Knoxville, when Acuff was sixteen, and he spent most of his
high school years excelling in sports. After graduation he was
invited to have a tryout at a major league baseball camp, but
a 1929 fishing trip to Florida resulted in a severe sunstroke,
and Acuff was bedridden for a number of months. During his convalescence
he reawakened an early interest in music and began to hone his
abilities on the fiddle. By the time he had recovered, he had
given up his dreams of a baseball career and had determined to
utilize his newly discovered musical talent. Acuff apprenticed himself to a local figure named Doc Hauer,
who ran an old-time traveling medicine show. Acuff provided the
entertainment and drew in the crowds to hear Doc pitch his nostrums,
and the experience gave Acuff a solid grounding in showmanship
and traditional repertoire (a repertoire derived from old folk
songs and nineteenth-century stage songs). Acuff learned to sing
in a high, full-throat style and to play a variety of tunes--even
to do train imitations--on the fiddle, all of which would serve
him well. By the mid-1930s he had won a job on local Knoxville
station WROL playing with a string band that later became known
as the Crazy Tennesseans. At this point Acuff still saw himself
primarily as a fiddler and front man and often left the singing
to fellow band member Sam "Dynamite" Hatcher. Sometime in 1935 Acuff heard a local gospel group sing an odd
religious song, "The Great Speckle [sic] Bird." Although he did
not know it at the time, the song had become an anthem of sorts
for a popular southern religious sect, the Church of God, then
headquartered in nearby Cleveland, Tennessee. Acuff paid the
gospel quartet fifty cents to write down the words, and he started
singing it on the air. The response was intense, and soon Acuff
was known all over East Tennessee. The success of the song--the
authorship of which has yet to be conclusively established--soon
attracted the attention of W. R. Calaway, a talent scout for
the American Record Company, then one of the nation's big three
labels. He invited Acuff and his band to come to Chicago and
record some twenty sides for the label, which they did in October
1936. Many of the sides languished in obscurity, but others became
bestsellers: "The Great Speckle Bird," "Wabash Cannonball," "Freight
Train Blues," "Steamboat Whistle Blues," and "Charming Betsy."
Others ranged from gospel songs to off-color novelties, such
as "When Lulu's Gone." Like many performers in Knoxville, Acuff longed for a chance
to play in the "big leagues" on Nashville's Grand Ole Opry, and
in February 1938 he was finally given an audition. The response
to his rendition of "Great Speckle Bird" was fast and furious:
stacks of mail and phone calls poured in. Hired as a regular,
he stayed with the show, except for a brief time in 1946-1947,
until his death. He quickly became the lead vocal star and was
selected both to appear in Grand Ole Opry, a 1940 Hollywood film
based on the show, and to be a featured act on the NBC network
part of the show, which was broadcast nationally beginning in
the fall of 1939. During World War II his popularity soared even
more, and soon he was one of the most-recognized American entertainers
in show business. (It was widely said that Japanese soldiers
taunted Marines in their foxholes by shouting, "To hell with
Roosevelt! To hell with Babe Ruth! To hell with Roy Acuff!")
Acuff's hit records from this period--his best-known pieces--included
"Wreck on the Highway," "Low and Lonely," "Precious Jewel," "Fireball
Mail," and "Wait for the Light to Shine." Also during this time Acuff put together the Smoky Mountain
Boys, a band of talented sidemen who would help define his sound
and style. The senior member of the group, Pete "Bashful Brother
Oswald" Kirby, was one of country music's pioneer players of
a type of resonator guitar known as the Dobro. Oswald's unique
playing of this instrument, his high-tenor harmony vocals, and
his boisterous comedy made him a key member of the band from
1938 until Acuff's death. Two of country music's most-influential
fiddlers also graced the Acuff band, Georgian Tommy Magness (famed
for his "Black Mountain Rag") and Tennessean Howard "Big Howdy"
Forrester. Other members included harmonica and piano player
Jimmie Riddle; banjoist Rachael Veach; and guitarists Lonnie
"Pap" Wilson, Jess Easterday, and Charley Collins. Many of them
stayed with the band for decades. In the 1940s Acuff and the band spent a lot of time in Hollywood,
where they made a series of popular, low-budget films. In addition
to Grand Ole Opry, these films included Hi Neighbor (1942), O,
My Darlin' Clementine (1943), Cowboy Canteen (1944), Sing, Neighbor,
Sing (1944), Night Train to Memphis (1946), and Smoky Mountain
Melody (1948). He became so popular in Tennessee that in 1948
he made a serious run for governor on the Republican ticket,
albeit unsuccessfully. Also by the late 1940s, Acuff was reaping
the benefits of having established Acuff-Rose, the first modern
country song-publishing company in Nashville, in October 1942.
Acuff had entered into a partnership with the successful songwriter
Fred Rose and founded Acuff-Rose with a cash investment of $25,000.
Bolstered initially by Acuff's own popular songs, the company
flourished, signing such major figures as Hank Williams and the
Louvin Brothers. In addition, Rose's contacts in the pop music
business enabled him to take country songs to New York and get
them recorded by the great pop singers of the day, such as Tony
Bennett and Rosemary Clooney. The firm's success helped to secure
Nashville's status as the undisputed capital of country music. In the 1950s, as Acuff began to have fewer hits, he founded
his own record company, Hickory, and began recording for it.
Like many country entertainers, he weathered hard times as rock
'n' roll began to dominate country and pop music, and for a time
the band even experimented with electric guitars and steel guitars.
Yet Acuff never strayed too far from his Smoky Mountains roots,
and by the 1960s he had reemerged as a central figure on the
Grand Ole Opry. He soon determined to stop his heavy touring
schedule and to confine his performing to the Opry stage. By
reaching out to a new generation of fans through his work on
the 1972 crossover album Will the Circle Be Unbroken? and by
welcoming President Richard Nixon on stage at the new Grand Ole
Opry House in 1974, Acuff further solidified his role as an elder
statesmen for country music, the Opry, and Nashville. His family
included his long-time wife, the former Mildred Louise Douglas,
who helped him run his career, and his son, Roy Neal, born in
1943, who had a successful singing career of his own in the 1960s.
After Mildred Acuff died in 1981, the Opry built, near the front
door to the Opry House, a cottage where he lived during his declining years. Throughout his eighties Acuff continued to make regular appearances
on the Opry and even to record; his last chart hit, in 1987,
was a duet with Charlie Louvin performing Acuff's song "Precious
Jewel." After his death, in Nashville, tributes poured in, attesting
to Acuff's influence as a vocal stylist--on everyone from George
Jones to Randy Travis--his role as a talent spotter who was responsible
for giving dozens of artists their first break, and his dedication
to preserving and celebrating the history of the genre. Long
known as the "King of Country Music," he had been a worldwide
spokesman for the music and the Opry as well as a pioneering
businessman in the industry. Bibliography  At the Country Music Foundation in Nashville is the Elizabeth
Schlappi Collection of tapes, posters, films, letters, and scrapbooks
related to Acuff. The definitive biography is Schlappi, Roy Acuff:
The Smoky Mountain Boy, rev. ed. (1983). General background on
the Grand Ole Opry and Acuff's changing role in it is best described
in Chet Hagen, The Grand Ole Opry (1989). Charles K. Wolfe Online Resources   The Kennedy Center Honors: Roy Acuff
http://kennedy-center.org/honors/years/acuff.html
 From the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts.  A
profile including a portrait.----------------------------------
Suggested citation:
 Charles K. Wolfe. "Acuff, Roy";
http://www.anb.org/articles/18/18-03468.html;
American National Biography Online May 2000.Copyright Notice
Permission is granted to make and distribute verbatim copies of the
American National Biography of the Day provided
that the following statement is preserved on all copies:     From American National Biography, published by Oxford University
     Press, Inc., copyright 2000 American Council of Learned Societies.

On Thu, 6 May 1999 17:28:24 -0700, Ed Cray wrote:>I don't know how much of this is true, but it's worth a laugh.
>
>Could this be 16th C. urban legend?And follows some pretty funny stuff on the origins of some of our customs &
sayings.Since these things come, as we all know in bunches (preferably of three):I just got the Waterson:Carthy _Broken Ground_ and am impressed as ever.I read in Carthy's liner notes Raggle-Taggle Gipsies (#200) the note that
the supposed lady in question was the Countess of Cassilis.  Seems the same
story is being told of her descendent, the currant Countess as late as 1991.He implies that a good story may as well continue to be "reliably reported,"
myth is myth.  He asks "What DID they call an urban myth in the 16th
century?"  Either 'slander' or 'medical fact,' I guess.  Someone may have
another suggestion.As to debunking, I have no other info than Child's notes that a) earliest
version seems to be 1740, b) the ballad may date from soon after 1624, the
hanging of Johnne Faa & 7 others, c) stories relating to the Countess arose
in Ayrshire in the late 1700s but "there is positive evidence that this lady
(who died in 1642) had never done anything to alienate her husband's
affections."To show that Traditional song must nevertheless try to keep pace with the
times, Carthy forwarded the following:  (ie number three of the Bunch)Subject: Big Number Changes
From: Carthy/Waterson <[unmask]>
Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 11:51:09 +0000>X-Sender: [unmask]
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2000 02:26:41 +0000
>To: Carthy/Waterson <[unmask]>
>From: Rachel Carthy <[unmask]>
>Subject: Big Number Changes
>
>>CERTAIN changes to the much-loved song Green Grow the Rushes-O are to be
>>officially unveiled this week. The line "Six for the six proud
>>walkers" will be adjusted so that it becomes "04016 for the 04016 proud
>>walkers". Unless you live in Coventry where it will be the 0316 proud
>>walkers. And, of course, people singing the song in central London will
>>omit the second zero.
>>
>>These moves are necessary because of the declining national stock of
>>numerals. The telecommunications watchdog, Oftel, announced last week
>>that millions of homes and businesses are to have their telephone
>>numbers changed, in order to have enough codes to go round in the next
>>century; now it emerges that Oftune, which oversees the music business,
>>is facing the same problem.
>>
>>It is likely that even more changes will have to be made to Green Grow
>>the Rushes-O. By the year 2002 "Three, three the rivals" - the bit where
>>many singers tend to show off - will be phased out, so that people will
>>move from the two lily-white boys straight on to the four Gospel makers.
>>
>>By making these changes, Oftune will take pressure off Three Blind Mice,
>>which is important for children learning to play the violin. In order to
>>differentiate between sightless rodents and the royal personages in the
>>Christmas carol, the public is being asked, after next June 1, to sing
>>"We 0971(3) Kings of Orient are". There will continue to be three coins
>>in the fountain until a review takes place in five years' time. The
>>title of The Threepenny Opera will be adjusted annually to keep in line
>>with inflation.
>>
>>The rapid growth in information technology, the increase in car
>>number-plates and the explosion in the use of mobile phones has led to
>>this digit crisis and to the need to redistribute numbers.
>>
>>To give an example of the sort of problem we face, the Glenn Miller
>>classic Pennsylvania 6-5000 is too close to the bar-code number for a
>>packet of Sainsbury's own brand of prepared fish, so every time the
>>Glenn Miller piece is played a computer in Fife orders 14 tons of cod in
>>parsley sauce to be delivered to the Sainsbury's store in Canterbury.
>>
>>Oftune, with the co-operation of Oftel, has arranged to change the Glenn
>>Miller work to Pennsylvania the number you have dialled has not been
>>recognised.
>>
>>Some numbers are in danger of "wearing out" because of over-use. This
>>particularly applies to "two" - because it rhymes so conveniently with
>>"blue", "true" and "you". Oftune has therefore set itself a target to
>>weed 1,500 "twos" from the stock of music output.
>>
>>To give an example, simply by changing the song to Tea for Fourteen it
>>is possible to release enough twos to wipe out the post-code log-jam for
>>the whole of West Yorkshire. For the moment there are no plans to
>>abolish the two turtle doves from the (renamed) The Dozen Days of
>>Christmas.
>>
>>Another problem number is "seven" - because of the way it rhymes with
>>heaven. The immediate crisis has been averted by changing the name of
>>the film to Seven Brides for Five Brothers. This will involve the
>>British Board of Film Classification redesignating it as a film for
>>those aged 18 and over.
>>
>>Beethoven's Seventh Symphony is safe for the time being, but is likely
>>to become 6A when Oftune puts through its second phase of
>>changes. However, The Sound of Music must give up its song You Are
>>Sixteen Going on Seventeen because 1617 happens to be the fax number of
>>the British Institute of Numerology.
>>
>>Obviously, a great many new zeros are required to slot into new dialling
>>codes, so a line such as "I'd walk a million miles for one of your
>>smiles" cannot really be justified in the present climate, as it uses up
>>six zeros, which would be extremely useful to telephone subscribers in
>>the Ipswich area. Anyway, "I'd walk a very long way for one of your
>>smiles" has a sort of ring to it.
>>
>>Similarly, by singing "I was a fair distance from Tulsa", Gene Pitney
>>could be doing a great favour to people keying in the first two digits
>>of the VAT number of a petrol station on the A4.
>
>-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---
                  I am Abby Sale - in Orlando, Florida                        Boycott South Carolina!

In a message dated 5/8/00 10:42:22 AM, [unmask] writes:>I am complying songs that deal with construction work(ers). I have about
>60 songs from England, Ireland, Scotland and Australia  going back to
>the 18th century Navigators  who built the canals in the British Isles
>right up to the Navies building roads, dam, subways, tunnels, railways
>etc.  What I am looking for are more songs from the United States. I
>have 2 on the building of the Erie canal,
>Paddy Works on the Railway, John Henry and that is it.
************************
     BUILDING THE RAILROADS
I’VE BEEN WORKING ON THE RAILROAD-- see Cohen: "Long Steel Rail", Urbana: 
Univ.   Illinois Press, 1981.  (A tremendous amount of railroad information 
in this book!)JERRY, GO AND ILE THAT CAR -- Botkin & Harlow:  "A Treasury of Railroad 
Folklore", NY,  Crown Publishers, 1953.  (Most versions have an offensively 
anti-Negro verse.)DRILL, YE TARRIERS, DRILL -- See "Rise Up Singing" for words and a list of 
sources.    Also on my LP, "The Real McCoy",  DECCA DL-8579, 1956.  In Botkin 
& Harlow.TAMPING TIES -- Botkin & Harlow.TRACK-LINING SONG.  Ibid.ECHO CANYON -- about the building of the last connecting link on the    
transcontinental railroad, completed by the Mormons in Echo Canyon. Utah, in    
1869.   L.M.Hilton on Library of Congress record "Songs of the Mormons....." 
Also    on  my LP   "Singing Across the Land" (Decca DL-8108, 1955)  I'VE BEEN All Around THIS WORLD --  IN Sigmund Spaeth: "Weep Some  More, My 
Lady":  NY: Doubleday Page and Co., 1927. WORKING ON THE NEW RAILROAD -- On the internet, in Digital Traditions, at   
http://www.mudcat.org  (Keyword:  NEWRAIL)  A variant of "I've Been All 
Around  This World."       OTHER CONSTRUCTION WORK
SOLIDARITY FOREVER -- Song of the IWW, written around 1912 by Ralph Chaplin,  
to the tune of "John Brown's Body."  Words are in "Rise Up singing."  One 
stanza begins
    "It was we who plowed the prairies, built the cities where they trade;
    Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad 
laid."..... PADDY'S NOT AT WORK TODAY  (THE SICK NOTE)-- Words, a retelling of an old 
urban legend, by Pat Cooksey;  to the tune of "The Garden Where the Praties 
Grow."  An account of an industrial accident in building a tall building. 
Words and some sources in "Rise Up Singing."   Available in Digital 
Traditions on the internet, at <http://www.mudcat.org>.  (Keyword: NEWRAIL), THE CORNER OF DOCK AND HOLLY.  About Swedish immigrants coming to work in the 
construction industry  in Bellingham, Washington, some time around the turn 
of the last century.  To the tune of "Reuben and Rachel".  In "Rainy Day 
Songbook"  by Linda Allen.  (May not be in the newer edition of this book, 
which is available --  with an audio tape -- from Linda at 
<http://www.lindasongs.com/>.)  What the heck -- it's very short, and you 
know the tune, so here are the words as I remember them:    "Down at the corner of Dock and Holly
       Woman come to me and say
    'Will you come and work for Jesus?'
      I say 'How much Jesus pay?'    She say Jesus not pay money.
      I say I no work for him;
    I go up to the York Addition,
      And I work for Charley Linn."For some songs in the U.K:
In 1978, Cambridge University Press published a paperbound booklet put 
together by Roy Palmer, entitled "Strike the Bell: transport by road, canal, 
rail, and sea in the nineteenth century through songs, ballads, and 
contemporary accounts."  This is part of a fine series of similar books on 
various subjects, by the same author.  Most of the songs in this one deal 
with the finished products of roads and railroads and sea-travel, but at 
least 3 of them concern  actual construction:  Song  1, "The Roadmakers":  
Song 2, "The Buchan Turnpike"; and Song 12 "Navvy On the Line"  (railroad 
building.)This is an interesting project, and if you find yourself short of Amrican 
songs, please let me know, and I'll bet I can find some more:  I've given you 
only those that are currently in my repertoire.Sam Hinton
La Jolla, CA, USA

Sam Hinton wrote:<<ECHO CANYON -- about the building of the last connecting link on the
transcontinental railroad, completed by the Mormons in Echo Canyon. Utah, in
1869.   L.M.Hilton on Library of Congress record "Songs of the Mormons....."
Also    on  my LP   "Singing Across the Land" (Decca DL-8108, 1955)  >>Hilton also recorded this song, and several other excellent songs, for
Folkways; the record is "Mormon Folk Songs" (1952), and as it's still
available from Smithsonian/Folkways as a custom cassette (and, eventually, a
custom CD, when they get that service going again), it may be more
accessible than the Library of Congress recording. Come to think of it, I
wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Folkways disc is a reissue of his
recordings for the Library. Good stuff, in any case.Peace.
Paul

>>> Paul Stamler <[unmask]> 05/15/00 01:16AM >>>
>>Hilton also recorded this song, and several other excellent songs, for
Folkways; the record is "Mormon Folk Songs" (1952), and as it's still
available from Smithsonian/Folkways as a custom cassette (and, eventually, a custom CD, when they get that service going again), it may be more
accessible than the Library of Congress recording.Paul et al. -Smithsonian Folkways has been doing the custom CDs for awhile now, so the service is in full swing.  Just thought you'd like to know.StephanieStephanie Smith
Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage / Smithsonian Folkways
Smithsonian Institution

Hi-
To the best of my knowledgr, the Folkways recording was done for Folkways;
the LOC recordings have been released as a CD by Bear Family (an
astounding 47 tracks on a single CD).dick greenhausOn Mon, 15 May 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:> Sam Hinton wrote:
>
> <<ECHO CANYON -- about the building of the last connecting link on the
> transcontinental railroad, completed by the Mormons in Echo Canyon. Utah, in
> 1869.   L.M.Hilton on Library of Congress record "Songs of the Mormons....."
> Also    on  my LP   "Singing Across the Land" (Decca DL-8108, 1955)  >>
>
> Hilton also recorded this song, and several other excellent songs, for
> Folkways; the record is "Mormon Folk Songs" (1952), and as it's still
> available from Smithsonian/Folkways as a custom cassette (and, eventually, a
> custom CD, when they get that service going again), it may be more
> accessible than the Library of Congress recording. Come to think of it, I
> wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Folkways disc is a reissue of his
> recordings for the Library. Good stuff, in any case.
>
> Peace.
> Paul
>

<<----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Smith <[unmask]>
Paul et al. -Smithsonian Folkways has been doing the custom CDs for awhile now, so the
service is in full swing.  Just thought you'd like to know.>>Well, there goes my paycheck.Peace.
Paul

Dear All,
The Elphinstone Institute, with the support of David's
friends and family, have commissioned a portrait by Colin
Dunbar. The artist, based in Edinburgh, has an excellent
track record and recently painted the poet George Bruce. I
am, however, short of good photographs showing David's
face, from which the artist might work. Can anyone help?
For those unfamiliar with David's name, he was appointed
to the Chair of Scottish Ethnology at Aberdeen and first
Director of the Elphinstone Institute, but died before he
could take up the position.
IanP.S. If anyone is looking for a copy of David Buchan's
seminal  _Ballad and the Folk_ (1997 edn) the Institute has
been given a number of copies. The price is 6 pounds stg
plus postage.
----------------------
Dr Ian Russell, Director
The Elphinstone Institute
University of Aberdeen
24 High Street
Aberdeen
AB24 3EB
Tel: +44 (0)1224 272386
Fax: +44 (0)1224 272728
[unmask]

This info is not directly related to the songs of construction workers, but
since we've gotten off onto the topic of track-lining, the Blue Ridge
Institute at Ferrum College in Virginia produced a record of work songs
which includes track-lining or gandy dancer songs.  It's BRI 007 "Virginia
Work Songs".The BRI has a website (www.blueridgeinstitute.org) listing their 10 albums
of field recordings, most of which have been reissued on cassette tape
and/or CD.  (Once you get to the BRI homepage, go to the site map and pull
up the museum store.)The booklets accompanying these recordings have song lyrics plus extensive
and very useful scholarly notes with bibliographies.  Excellent source
material.  Of special interest to the members of this list are their two
collections of ballad performances from western Virginia--"Native Virginia
Ballads and Songs" and "Ballads from the British Tradition".I've only been lurking on this list for about a year but as far as I can
tell, no one has put out this information before.  It just seemed
appropriate to let people know about this wonderful source of ballads and
folk songs.Lyn Wolz, Director
Regents Center Library
University of Kansas, Edwards Campus
12600 Quivira Road
Overland Park, KS  66213
(913) 897-8572
[unmask]-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Stamler [mailto:[unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 11:38 AM
To: [unmask]
Subject: Re: Songs about construction workers<<I picked up a recording at the Kentucky Railway Museum last year that has
a
couple including what sounds like a negro work song called "Can't you Line
the Track".  I'll try to remember to check the particulars when I get home.
Also on that trip, I picked up a book entitled "Scalded To Death By the
Steam:  Songs of Railway Disasters and their Stories".  I never realized
there were so many railway disaster songs, much less so many versions of
the Wreck of the old 97.  It's worth a look, if you can find it.  Miki>>Then there's the Library of Congress recording "Railroad Songs and Ballads",
also newly-issued on Rounder.Peace.
Paul

I don't think anyone has mentioned the following collection of papers which
includes perspectives on construction workers and others -- not a song
book, but some very good essays:Archie Green (ed.). Songs about Work: Essays in Occupational Culture for
Richard A. Reuss. Special Publications of the Folklore Institute no. 3.
Bloomington, IN: Indiana University, 1993and of course there's always that great collection of IWW lore (pictures,
cartoons, songs, and lots of background information)Joyce L. Kornbluh (ed.). Rebel Voices: An I.W.W. Anthology. Ann Arbor:
University of Michigan Press, 1964.Hope these are some use!Jeff Kallen
Trinity College Dublin
Dublin 2
IRELAND

Lyn:Thank you for the citation, a (re)source I would never have discovered on
my own.Put another way, don't lurk, and don't be shy.  So what if we already
heard about something?  Half of us forget to bookmark it, most of the rest
of us forget to even look.And at my age a reminder is a public service.Ed

Since I first heard it, I've wondered about the provenance of a Phipps
Family song (on their Starday LP, I think).  I don't recall the title, and
the following words (1st verse and chorus) are from memory and are
therefore somewhat suspect.There's treason, boys, in Washington,
John Wilkes Booth has fled,
Abe Lincoln's lying cold and dead
With a bullet in his head.Bring the traitors in, boys,
Bring the traitors in.
Bring the traitors in, boys,
Bring the traitors in.Is this a traditional song, a Phipps Family composition, or what?I don't think I've ever encountered it anywhere else.  The only other
Lincoln assassination song that I know of is the one recorded by Bascom
Lamar Lunsford.john garst    [unmask]