From: abbysale@orlinter.com (Abby Sale) Newsgroups: uk.music.folk,rec.music.folk Subject: Re: "I know where they are" Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 10:48:14 GMT Eric Berge wrote: >showing them swilling rum in a dugout. The illustrations are very >amusing - if anyone wants, I can scan and post them as binaries, >or email them privately. Yes. Me! Me! > WHAT DO THE COLONELS AND THE GENERALS DO That's great. I'll have to get the book. > Said I ought to lay the Kaiser's hips to rest, > Dirty little job for Jesus, >I am guessing that "hips" in the third line is a stand in for something >else, much as "thigh" is in various biblical verses. Maybe. And, although I'm generally prone to accept the bawdy interpretation, maybe just means "kill." Ie, put him on the ground. On Wed, 07 May 1997 09:24:57 GMT, George.Hawes@i-cubed.co.uk (George Hawes) wrote: >>> It seems to >>>me that that excellent verse in an earlier post, about the Privates dying >>>on the barbed wire, is a product of the folksong revival of the '50's and >>>'60's. > >What on earth made him think that I don't know . . > I think there may be a clear difference between American & British versions. In the US it seems to be _printed_ as privates in the mud. But I recall hearing it in the 60's as on the barbed wire. I've never heard or seen a "regiment" verse until now. > >And Roy Palmer's investigations suggest that early in the war >the song existed without the last verse, which was added after >the Somme. That's an interesting part of it. Hmmm. I think you've got it, George. - Getting close, I think. In any event, with the above information, the Board of Directors at Central have already authorized me to reveal that they've ruled to agree with J.J.Farrell on the song. That is, it fully represents the Battle of the Somme, whether or not it turns out to be provably specifically written (or updated) about it. This is very quick work for them. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- I am Abby Sale - abbysale@orlinter.com (That's in Orlando) ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Path: szdc2!super.pdfpo.com!ix.netcom.com!news.webspan.net!feed1.news.erols.com!disgorge.news.demon.net!demon!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!i-cubed.demon.co.uk!i-cubed.co.uk!news From: George.Hawes@i-cubed.co.uk (George Hawes) Newsgroups: rec.music.folk,uk.music.folk Subject: Re: "I know where they are" Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 18:37:59 GMT Organization: i-cubed Limited, Cambridge Message-ID: <5kqhsd$bna@shiny.i-cubed.co.uk> References: <33645796.8030598@snews2.pdfpo.com> <33697210.13116236@snews2.pdfpo.com> <5k3htu$qoe@eccles.dsbc.icl.co.uk> <336919b3.18497563@snews2.pdfpo.com> <5k90a5$m1n@eccles.dsbc.icl.co.uk> <5kc8hh$q8k@shiny.i-cubed.co.uk> <337025c0.21403456@snews2.pdfpo.com> Reply-To: George.Hawes@i-cubed.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: postmanpat.i-cubed.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: i-cubed.demon.co.uk X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Lines: 172 Xref: szdc2 rec.music.folk:35940 uk.music.folk:7152 X-Agent-Group: rec.music.folk abbysale@orlinter.com (Abby Sale) wrote: >It occurs to me that there is no version of this in DT or other online >songbases I've tried. Also (to my surprise) I don't have it on record. >And it _is_ an important song. Usually just treated as a joke. >Since George seems quite familiar with it, I suggest he be "assigned" to >putting together either a "legitamate" It seems the copy I have of 'Hanging on the old barbed wire' has a number of the middle verses snipped from it. Given that a fairly full version appears earlier in the thread, can I be excused from Abby's onerous task? (i.e. will someone please send the version from the thread on to DT?) As I mentioned before, my source is: What a Lovely War - British Soldiers Songs from the Boer War to the present day Roy Palmer; pub. Michael Joseph, 1990 (sorry I don't have the ISBN) The following information re: 'Barbed wire' from that source may be of interest: J B Priestly, having dismissed the Music Hall song 'Your King and Country‘ as "Drivel" observed that 'In the trenches the troops would sing a wider range of songs, including the marching songs, nonsense songs and other popular songs of the time. The patriotic songs seem to be unknown.' He also commented on 'Barbed wire' "I cannot listen to it unmoved" #1 This song was also incorporated into a long poem, In Parenthesis, by David Jones. While I've found references to this poem in two sources I've yet to locate the poem itself (David Jones being a sufficiently common name to make library searching rather tedious!!) Returning to Priestly, he considered there to be three classes of soldiers songs during the Great War * bawdy * lugubrious and homesick, without patriotic sentiment of any kind * sharply concerned with military life from the view-point of the disillusioned private soldier and he believed 'Barbed wire‘ to be the best example of the third type. Priestly believed the songs would not survive beyond the end of the war. Palmer quotes another statment of this view; In the words of Rifleman Bill Teake, "These ‘ere songs are no good in England. They ‘ave too much guts in them." #2 #1 From Margin Released, 1962. #2 From Soldier Songs: MacGill (no date given) Regards George (ie, actually collected in the >field) version or else a usable collated but unbowdlerized version. Sorry >about suggesting this in the embarassing public, George, but that's life. >Dolph, in _Sound Off_ admits his is a very bowdlerized version: > "I'll Tell You Where They Were." > If you want to know where the generals were, > I'll tell you where they were, > Yes, I'll tell you where they were, > Oh, I'll tell you where they were, > If you want to know where the generals were, > I'll tell you where they were, > Back in gay Paree! > (Spoken) How do you know? > I saw them! I saw them! > Back in gay Paree! > I saw them, > Back in gay Paree! > If you want to know where the colonels were, > Way behind the lines. > ...the majors > Playing with the mademoiselles. > ...the captains > Down in the deep dugout. > ...the sergeants > Drinking up the privates' rum. > ...the privates > Up to their necks in mud! >Lomax, in _Amer Bal & F S_ has an inverted one: >He got it from _Songs My Mother Never Taught Me_, 1929 > "If You Want to Know Where the Privates Are" > If you want to know where the privates are > I'll tell you where they are, > I'll tell you where they are, > Yes, I'll tell you where they are. > If you want to know where the privates are-- > I'll tell you where they are, > Up to their ears in mud. > I saw them, I saw them-- > Up to their ears in mud and slime. > If you want to know where the privates are, > I'll tell you where they are-- > Up to their ears in mud. > > ...the sergeants > Clipping the old barbed wire. > ...the captains > Drinking the privates' rum. > .the officers > Down in theie deep dug-out. > ...the generals > Back in gay Paree. >On Fri, 02 May 1997 08:32:43 GMT, George.Hawes@i-cubed.co.uk (George >Hawes) wrote: >>jjf@dsbc.icl.co.uk (J.J.Farrell) wrote: >> >>>In article <336919b3.18497563@snews2.pdfpo.com>, >>>Abby Sale wrote: >>>>On 29 Apr 1997 02:12:30 +0100, jjf@dsbc.icl.co.uk (J.J.Farrell) wrote: >> >> >>> If you want to see the Privates, I know where they are, >>> I know where they are, I know where they are, >>> If you want to see the Privates, I know where they are, >>> They're dangling on the old barbed wire. >> >>> I saw them, I saw them, dangling on the old barbed wire, >>> I saw them, dangling on the old barbed wire. >> >>Just as there's a vast number of earlier verses to the above >>(too many to sing at one sitting), there are interesting >>variants on this last one; the two which spring to mind are >> >> If you want to find the regiment . . . >>and >> If you want to find your husband . . . >> >>But I've always known it as 'find' rather than 'see', and >>also 'hanging on the old barbed wire . . ' >> >>To my mind the most powerful of the songs from WW1 >> >-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- >I am Abby Sale - abbysale@orlinter.com (That's in Orlando)