From owner-ballad-l@miagra.ucs.indiana.edu Thu Jul 10 23:59:12 1997 Return-Path: Received: from mizar.usc.edu (mizar.usc.edu [128.125.253.135]) by almaak.usc.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4/usc) with ESMTP id XAA06935 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:59:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miagra.ucs.indiana.edu (miagra.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.5.181]) by mizar.usc.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4/usc) with ESMTP id XAA16955 for ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by miagra.ucs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/1.2skh) id BAA24762 for ballad-l-outgoing; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:58:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from cayman.ucs.indiana.edu (cayman.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.5.187]) by miagra.ucs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/1.2skh) with ESMTP id BAA24755 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from almaak.usc.edu (almaak.usc.edu [128.125.253.166]) by cayman.ucs.indiana.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5/1.13IUPO) with ESMTP id BAA18788 for ; Fri, 11 Jul 1997 01:58:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (cray@localhost) by almaak.usc.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4/usc) with SMTP id XAA06852; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 23:58:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Cray Reply-To: Ed Cray To: Paul Woodford cc: ballad-l@indiana.edu Subject: Re: The Titanic In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970709215944.30e74d5c@wizard.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ballad-l@indiana.edu Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: Paul: Your version of this ballad is about the longest I have seen. As for its history, I can say this much: The "camp" song you and I know -- "Little bitty children lost their lives" -- is descended from a gospel song. Question is: was it a white gospel or a black gospel song. There are something like four types of this ballad, some white, some black, as well as a "toast" featuring a black trickster called "Shine." For a text of the toast, see Roger Abrahams' _Deep Down in the Jungle,_ pp. 117-123. The earliest printed report of the gospel song similar to the camp song is in Henry's _Folk-Songs of the Southern Highlands,_ a version dated to August, 1929. Henry's notes cite an earlier version in White's _American Negro Folk-Songs,_ published in 1928, p. 347. He states they are the same ballad, with some 50 verbal differences. No tunes are given. The Brown Collection from North Carolina, Vol II, pp. 662 ff., and IV, pp. 314-317, have multiple versions -- to a scattering of tunes. The "A" text borrows from "The Golden Willow Tree" [Child 286], is dated as early as 11/15/1914 and ostensibly copied from a broadside written April 13, 1914, by a white man, "Coon" Martin of Granite Falls, No. Car. That "A" text has elements, lines, motifs found in your "camp" song. By 1920, the text seems to have solidified into something close to what we have now, particularly with the trademark line in the chorus, "It was sad when that great ship went down." The Brown "D" text is a good example. The first report of the tune with which I am familiar is Brown's "E" version, dated to March, 1940. I do not have any references to race, country or gospel recordings, though I am sure they exist. Which is why I am posting this to ballad-l. Our colleagues there are likely to wax long on this. The "camp song" version, without your raunchy interpolations, is in Leisy's _Songs for Picking and Singing_, published in 1960, pp. 24-25. That it is in this collection suggests just how popular it had become in the 48 years since its creation. (Leisy provided texts and tunes for singalongs.) I will forward your original query and the text you have to ballad-l in the next message. Ed