Thu Jul 4 01:50:33 1996 Return-Path: bawdy-owner@bdragon.shore.net Received: from shore.shore.net (uucp@shore.shore.net [192.233.85.136]) From: Ed Cray Date: Tue, 2 Jul 1996 09:42:34 -0700 (PDT) X-To: Mark A Mandel X-Cc: Multiple recipients of Bawdy Filking Subject: Re: Women's bawdy folk & filk Message-Id: X-Listname: Bawdy Filking To: bawdy-l@bdragon.shore.net (Multiple recipients of Bawdy Filking) Reply-To: bawdy-l@bdragon.shore.net Errors-To: bawdy-owner@bdragon.shore.net Sender: bawdy-owner@bdragon.shore.net Precedence: bulk Status: RO X-Status: Mark: While I cannot be sure that William Bigford of Portland, Michigan, who died at age 88 in 1986, after working as a farmer and laborer (and fiddler) did not see a copy of *Pills to Purge Melancholy* (1719), I cna make these observations: 1) Bigford sang some 50 songs for fellow musician and librarian Paul Gifford of Flint, Michigan. Only a handful were ballads, and 'This Way, That Way" was the only one from *Pills.* 2) That book has many songs that would appeal to a singer. 3) But, that book was out of print for 250 years, unavailable even in good reference libraries, until a small reprint in the mid 1960's intended for scholars. 4) Bigford's version follows the stanzaic shape, but not the exact words of the *Pills* text. 5) Finally, I have not yet seen the tune -- Gifford is sending it -- but if it is different from that in *Pills* it will lend support to my theory that the song has lurked in oral tradition undiscovered until Gifford found it. As for D'Urfey picking up something form oral tradition and putting it in his book: He did, often with some polishing, and always new arrangements of the melodies, and this song may well be one of those "finds." But it does not change the fact that Bigford's is the only version discovered to date -- so far as I know. Ed On Mon, 1 Jul 1996, Mark A Mandel wrote: > > On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Chris Croughton wrote: > > > On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Ed Cray wrote: > > > > > > >By the way, I was sent recently, collected from a now deceased, > > >80-year-old woodsman and fiddler, a bawdy song that has existed in oral > > >tradition at least since 1719 when it was printed in D'Urfey's *Pills to > > >Purg Melancholy* -- yet has never been collected (or perhaps reported) > > >before. Now that is staying power. > > > > Wow, that's a long time. Any idea how much it has changed since then? > > > > Ed, I don't want to deny the staying power of oral tradition, but two > questions: > > 1. Did D'Urfey *collect* it from oral tradition, or did he(?) print a > nontraditional (new at the time) composition, which then could have > entered o.t. from PtPM? > > 2. Print being durable -- witness your reference to it after almost three > centuries -- how can you be sure the old man didn't pick it up from PtPM, > or (directly or indirectly) from someone else who had done so in all the > time between? > > Dr. Whom, Consulting Linguist, Grammarian, Orthoepist, and > Philological Busybody > >